Flying Teeth?

[Krill]

Does Flying Kick work with Natural Attacks?

For example, a .... uh... werewolf in either animal or hybrid form... could it end a charge with a bite and the 'flying kick' feat for the additional 1d12 damage?

(presumably it becomes 'flying lunge' or 'running bite' or something like that).

[the_tick_rules]

i don't see why it wouldn't.

[Maxymiuk]

The description of the feat states that it applies when fighting unarmed. By RAW natural weapons count as just that - weapons - so for example you can't use the Flurry of Blows ability to gain iterative attacks with them. By extention (still by RAW), neither would this apply to Flying Kick.

Therefore it's down to GM's call. Common sense says that it should apply, but common sense and D&D get along about as well as pirates and ninja do.

[Krill]

Shucks.

Just looking for werewolf/fighter feat synergies and thought that was a nifty one...

[Krill]

Incidentally, do shifter feats apply to lycanthropes?

[SpiderBrigade]

Incidentally, do shifter feats apply to lycanthropes?By the RAW? Is your character a Shifter? Then no. Also, even if you could take such a feat, what would it do for you? Those feats are all very specific to the particular shifter form you have.

[Krill]

Not sure. Just wondering if it had come up before. I mean, if Shifters are watered-down lycanthropes (no offense to any shifters....), it would seem like a proper were-beastie would have at least some of the shifter feats on option.

I suppose the argument works both ways. Shifters have had the time and civilisation to develop tactical forms. Lycanthropes would have to be individual and..er... improvisational (?). Not really a civilisation of werewolves, I guess.

[SpiderBrigade]

The way I look at it is more like this: shifters have a lycanthrope bloodline, yes. Taking shifter feats represents focusing on that heritage, getting more like their full lycanthropic forebear. For instance a longtooth shifter can take feats to improve his bite while shifted, whereas a true lycanthrope would have a badass bite already. So the feat wouldn't do anything for him, he should take Improved Natural Attack instead :smallbiggrin:

As an analogy, look at dragons and sorcerers (if you use the "my ancestor was a dragon" model, anway). The sorcs can take those Draconic Heritage feats to be more like a dragon...but a dragon IS a dragon, already, and wouldn't benefit.

[Krill]

Ah, I like that justification.

I'm trying to build a werewolf PC now, and I'm having a bit of trouble coming up with a sufficiently lupine style of attack.

Some of the shifter feats add some interesting tweaks. But, to be honest, I'm already swimming in feat lists, so I'm happy to strike off a few!

[SpiderBrigade]

Well, if the various wolflike monsters are any indication, you need to focus on tripping.

[Olethros]

Where are these "Shifter" (I assume) races enumerated?

[Krill]

Olethros - The Shifter races are from Eberron. I've never played one, but they seem nifty, if somewhat feat-greedy. Lots of feat trees.

SpiderBrigade - Improved Trip (and therefore Combat Expertise) are both definitely in. I'm also thinking of going through the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack/Elusive Target line. And Weapon Finesse. Almost all of those seem to help out both in human and in beastie forms, so that's a bonus.

Dunno, really, I'll either be a graceful killing machine or a throw rug. To be determined.

[Quietus]

I'd go for attempting a charging trip. Similar in effect to a bull rush, except instead of pushing back, you knock'em down. Run at the opponent, leap onto his chest, make a trip attempt -> If you win, you put them on the ground, with Improved Trip this lets you make an attack. Make that attack a grapple attempt, and if you win, you do damage; Make that damage bite damage. Run, leap, push down, and bite the throat.

[Person_Man]

Remember that a Werewolf has 2 animal hit dice and +2/+3 LA, making it a pretty poor template to add to most builds. You might want to look at the level adjusted version (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a).

Since you have to be Chaotic Evil, you might want to consider 3 levels of the rarely used but mechanically strong Paladin of Slaughter (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#freedom-slaughter-and-tyranny).

2 levels of Barbarian and/or other classes that offer Rage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36238)-like abilities would work.

3 levels of Warshaper is usually the prestige class of choice for most shapechangers.

My feat suggestions: Knock-Down (Divine SRD), Frightful Presence (if your Cha is high, from Draconomicon), Deformity, Tall (grants +5 ft Reach) and Deformity, Tongue (grants Blindsense, both are from Heroes of Horror).

And above all else, make sure your DM and your party is cool with you playing Chaotic Evil. It can cause A LOT of problems if everyone hasn't talked about it before you play.

[Krill]

And above all else, make sure your DM and your party is cool with you playing Chaotic Evil. It can cause A LOT of problems if everyone hasn't talked about it before you play.

There's been a bit of fast-talking involved, and I'm hoping to swing CN instead. The SRD gives a strong steer towards CE, but doesn't mandate it (well, at least, leaves the door open for the DM to tweak it).

CN gives a nice animalistic flavor to it without setting up a PvP situation.

Wow, I used no less than 6 abbreviations in those two paragraphs. I need more coffee...

Thanks for all the help!

[AtomicKitKat]

I'd allow the Werewolf to take the Shifter feats. Sort of like how True Dragon>Dragon Type>Dragonblooded Subtype.

[hewhosaysfish]

There's been a bit of fast-talking involved, and I'm hoping to swing CN instead. The SRD gives a strong steer towards CE, but doesn't mandate it (well, at least, leaves the door open for the DM to tweak it).

CN gives a nice animalistic flavor to it without setting up a PvP situation.



I've always felt that werewolves should be lawful because they're pack animals and werebears should be chaotic because they're loners... Is that just me?

[Krill]

Or all of them just turn you True Neutral, if the point is that it reflects a growing 'animal' nature.

[Maryring]

From the way I read the "add the lycanthropic template" part in my friends MM, it seemed as if the alignment of a lycanthrope is dependant on how the animals are viewed, thus you could make a case of "my character believes animal X is Alignment Y, thus if he becomes a lycanthrope with animal X, he will gain alignment Y, and not alignment Z." In the end though, there is nothing to stop the DM and the players from throwing those alignment rules out of the window. It is their game after all.