Translating Gold from other Editions

[Sidmen]

Hi All,

So, I'm currently working on translating an adventure from AD&D to 5e (T1 Hommlet, if anyone cares) and I've noticed something... off. I'm mostly enjoying the experience because the adventure has me generating up-to-date combat blocks all over the place (level 4 Fighter in this farmhouse, etc.) so its good experience, but I've noticed that the people in this village are RICH.

The random farmer living in a "modest" farmhouse has 337gp of loose coins in his shed, and a silver service worth 1,300gp in his cupboard. Something seems very wrong there - if the players rob just the two furthest out farmhouses they'll have plenty of money to buy a suit of Full Plate... So, I'm pretty sure the wealth assumptions differ between AD&D (where gold = XP) and 5e.

So, how do you guys think I should handle this, or rather: what is the conversion rate that makes the most sense to you? Should I just downgrade every coin type? PP becomes GP becomes EP becomes SP? A 130gp silver service still seems like a lot (you could buy a carriage with that), so maybe a /20 for their objects as instead?

[HorridElemental]

Leave it as is and award XP for the GP too. The PCs can't exactly buy magic items at a magic mart so really all they will get is better armor (they need to be in a big town to get that) or more gear (odd things that people can use creatively).

The more gp will also allow them to live a bit more nicely for a while too... Or attract thieves.

[DrBurr]

I'm not familiar with the module but here are some guesses

AD&D modules could be written with 8+ adventurers in mind and their followers or henchmen and Gold often meant experience, dividing up 1300 by 10 guys is only 130 Gold each so it might be written to make the quest a little worthwhile. So you could translate some of that it Quest XP. Also Plate was only 400 Gold in first and 600 in second so it would be pretty cheap to equip all your fighters and paladins in it by comparison to fifth where its 1500.

[Yuki Akuma]

Just leave it. Character power in 5e isn't as inextricably tied to wealth as it was in 3.5 and 4e.

Just be sure to encourage the players to spend the money instead of hoarding it. Throwing wild parties is a good one.

[Yorrin]

Just leave it. Character power in 5e isn't as inextricably tied to wealth as it was in 3.5 and 4e.

On the one hand, this. There's not much of a downside to leaving it, mechanically.

On the other hand, for the sake of having consistent expectations within the world you might want to VASTLY reduce the amount of wealth your average farmer has lying around. With those numbers you gave.... I'd divide by 100, honestly. This is a farmer, he's not going to have any meaningful amount of cash.

[Naanomi]

Are most adventurers going to ransack a farmer's silverware?

[Yuki Akuma]

Most muderhobos take everything that isn't nailed down as a matter of course.

Rogues bring a claw hammer to remove the nails.

[rlc]

adventuring heroes are generally kleptomaniacs, so yes, most of them would.

[Xefas]

Since gold isn't tied as much to power and maintaining the system's expectations for what bonuses you can throw around, I feel like you're just free to put whatever makes sense. Most of a farmer's wealth is tied up in land, crops, animals, equipment, and so on. He probably gets a windfall come harvest season, but otherwise, why would he have more than a few silvers lying around at most?

[rlc]

you could always say that the silver is an heirloom and that's why he has it. like the nice china.

and yes, i had to google what silver service was.

[Naanomi]

Most muderhobos take everything that isn't nailed down as a matter of course.

Rogues bring a claw hammer to remove the nails.
If this was an Orcish farm, or anything in anything that could be construed as a dungeon, then I'd agree immediately. However, (and maybe this is just my gaming group) few apart from an occasional rogue would bother much with the farmer's wealth... or anything else about the farmer unless he had a plot-hook or a pretty daughter

[HorridElemental]

If this was an Orcish farm, or anything in anything that could be construed as a dungeon, then I'd agree immediately. However, (and maybe this is just my gaming group) few apart from an occasional rogue would bother much with the farmer's wealth... or anything else about the farmer unless he had a plot-hook or a pretty daughter

No, murderhobo d&d players will take anything and everything from anyone. If you DM you need to remember this fact.

Actually, non murderhobo d&d players will too, but there will be less death.

[Sidmen]

Heh, yeah. The real issue was that it was shattering my own suspension of disbelief, not that I was particularly worried about my players killing people for it (though, there is the chance someone will play a sneakthief).

I mean, that farmer's neighbor was walking around town with a 500gp gem in his pocket, and twice that in platinum stuffed in his mattress. I mean, he was marked out as "prosperous," but with that kind of cash sloshing around I have to wonder why he's living in a nowhere village.

Thanks, by the way, I think I'm going to use a /10 divisor on the coins and a /100 divisor on the objects. Things just seem way too overpriced for me.

[Elkad]

Everyone in Hommlet is loaded. It's not an edition problem, the town is rich in every edition.

I wrote it off as ripping off the last batch of adventurers (the guys who trashed ToEE and sealed the doors in the back story) by overcharging for everything. Plus being a major crossroads town distant from everything, so they can charge high prices to resupply merchant caravans and such ever since. The town is also functionally outside protection (and thus taxes as well) of Verondy or whatever kingdom they are in. So you keep your retirement funds portable and hidden, instead of tied up in expensive furniture, in case you have to run, or pay off the tax man who suddenly wants a decade worth of back taxes.

If your party goes nuts robbing farmers, they should have Burne and friends come down pretty hard on them in short order anyway.

[Angelalex242]

Well...consider alignment.

The CN rogue will certainly take all that stuff. The NG cleric and the Paladin who actually have a use for Plate Armor?

"PUT IT BACK! If it isn't owned by evil, or neutral animals marauding the populace... we don't take it, capeesh?"

I am generally of the opinion that no good divine caster can get away with murderhoboism against 'the free peoples' without being bitchslapped by their deity.

[Chambers]

I'm running Keep on the Borderlands for a local group and I'm using the treasure/coins as presented in the adventure. So far the group of 2nd level PC's have amassed about 2,000gp worth of coins & art. :smallamused:

There's no magical items at this point so spend it on, but they've found other uses, like "donating" an expensive tapestry to the Curate in the Keep for a pair of homebrewed Reincarnate spells for two of their party who died. A 900gp tapestry buys a lot of good will from the local chuch.

[Knaight]

I'd be inclined to tone down the amount of cash around, if only because it just feels odd. Even for a rich village, I'd expect the money to show up in other ways - large houses, better maintained houses, more livestock, better fed livestock, rich land, a nice mill, well maintained tools, a higher variety of tools, etc. Gigantic stacks of cash just seem weird, as does a farmer having so much silverware it's worth as much as 17 mail hauberks.

[Sir_Leorik]

Hi All,

So, I'm currently working on translating an adventure from AD&D to 5e (T1 Hommlet, if anyone cares) and I've noticed something... off. I'm mostly enjoying the experience because the adventure has me generating up-to-date combat blocks all over the place (level 4 Fighter in this farmhouse, etc.) so its good experience, but I've noticed that the people in this village are RICH.

The random farmer living in a "modest" farmhouse has 337gp of loose coins in his shed, and a silver service worth 1,300gp in his cupboard. Something seems very wrong there - if the players rob just the two furthest out farmhouses they'll have plenty of money to buy a suit of Full Plate... So, I'm pretty sure the wealth assumptions differ between AD&D (where gold = XP) and 5e.

So, how do you guys think I should handle this, or rather: what is the conversion rate that makes the most sense to you? Should I just downgrade every coin type? PP becomes GP becomes EP becomes SP? A 130gp silver service still seems like a lot (you could buy a carriage with that), so maybe a /20 for their objects as instead?

I would either drastically reduce the amount of coin and the value of the silverware, or replace the coin entirely with trade goods. Peasants shouldn't be hoarding gold, they should be investing in livestock. A farmer with 337 gp worth of sheep and chickens is probably one of the more important members of the Hommlett community. I don't care if your players want to rob the guy blind, they won't be able to steal a hundred sheep and three hundred chickens.

As for the silver service, reduce the worth to 13 gp, because the silver has become heavily tarnished. If the PCs steal the silverware and are able to polish it properly, (spending downtime to do so) they can fence it for the full 130 gp.

If this isn't working, just go through the module with a red pen and cross out treasure that doesn't make sense for the adventure. Take out the farmer's hoard of gp and silver set, especially if your players will try to kill everything that moves.

Either way, try to encourage the players to go investigate the moathouse, not rob every farmer and yeoman. Try to tie the PCs' Backgrounds to the events in T1, and see if your Players take the bait.

Good luck!

[Knaight]

As for the silver service, reduce the worth to 13 gp, because the silver has become heavily tarnished. If the PCs steal the silverware and are able to polish it properly, (spending downtime to do so) they can fence it for the full 130 gp.

Having a bunch of silverware is a fairly good status symbol, particularly for a farmer. I'd expect them to keep it very well polished. I'd also expect it to still come to less than 130 gp, seeing as that costs more than a riding horse. It also costs 65% of an elephant, but I'd consider that more indicative of elephant underpricing than overpriced silverware.

Consider the materials - at the size of silver coins, it wouldn't be all that many silver coins of material for the silverware. It would certainly be fewer than 1300, and while the raw materials are only part of the price, 130 gp is still too high.

[Sir_Leorik]

Having a bunch of silverware is a fairly good status symbol, particularly for a farmer. I'd expect them to keep it very well polished. I'd also expect it to still come to less than 130 gp, seeing as that costs more than a riding horse. It also costs 65% of an elephant, but I'd consider that more indicative of elephant underpricing than overpriced silverware.

Consider the materials - at the size of silver coins, it wouldn't be all that many silver coins of material for the silverware. It would certainly be fewer than 1300, and while the raw materials are only part of the price, 130 gp is still too high.

Coins were much bigger in 1E. Still, even taking into account the amount of craftsmanship that went into making the set (maybe it's a lost Dwarven tea set?), the value from T1 is way too high for a 5E game, especially since its really a piece of background detail. One of the focuses of 5E is to move away from killing everything that moves and stealing their stuff and refocus on stories.

I'd handle the swarms of treasure in Hommlett as follows: ignore it if it doesn't advance the story. If it can play a role in the story use it. For example, maybe the farmer with a gem in his boot is a spy for the ToEE. Maybe the PCs visit the farmer with the tea set, and he tells them its a valuable art object, but because he inherited it from his mother he'll never part with it, even though doing so could help him pay off his crushing debt.

EDIT: Okay, I've opened my copy of T1-4, and I've identified the "modest farmhouse and barn" as being the home of Elmo, the 4th level Ranger's parents. Perhaps Elmo bought the fancy silver set for his parents using money he got in his adventures. What I would say is that if your players decide to behave like a certain Elmo(re) character and rob these innocent farmers, they should be be hunted down by an angry Elmo.

[Angelalex242]

Since Elmo can be easily tickled to death, I'd say it's more potent to just say 'and the divine casters in your party can no longer cast spells, for hurting innocent people. No more healing for you!'

[Knaight]

EDIT: Okay, I've opened my copy of T1-4, and I've identified the "modest farmhouse and barn" as being the home of Elmo, the 4th level Ranger's parents. Perhaps Elmo bought the fancy silver set for his parents using money he got in his adventures. What I would say is that if your players decide to behave like a certain Elmo(re) character and rob these innocent farmers, they should be be hunted down by an angry Elmo.

They are still ridiculously overpriced, even if Elmo purchased them.

[Sir_Leorik]

They are still ridiculously overpriced, even if Elmo purchased them.

So how much should a set of quality silverware be worth in 5E? Anyone have a suggestion? Because if Elmo did pay 1300 gp for it, he was robbed.

[Knaight]

So how much should a set of quality silverware be worth in 5E? Anyone have a suggestion? Because if Elmo did pay 1300 gp for it, he was robbed.

25 gp, maybe? The economic system in 5e has some issues in general, but that leaves it as more expensive than a number of military weapons, and 1/3 the price of mail.

[Angelalex242]

To be fair, the price of arms and armor may be somewhat inflated due to the fact supply and demand is still in effect, except it's a PC centered economy. Thus, Plate is the most expensive thing in the world, because PCs badly want it, but nobody cares about silverware, because PCs don't care except to sell it.

[pwykersotz]

I like to place the 'equivalent' value of gold at about 1 coin = 50 dollars. So a tea set worth a thousand dollars would be 20gp. Seems reasonable for the nice antiques.

[Knaight]

To be fair, the price of arms and armor may be somewhat inflated due to the fact supply and demand is still in effect, except it's a PC centered economy. Thus, Plate is the most expensive thing in the world, because PCs badly want it, but nobody cares about silverware, because PCs don't care except to sell it.
There's some weirdness elsewhere though. I've harped on elephants enough, but you get things like boat prices being surprisingly high, even for pretty simple boats.


I like to place the 'equivalent' value of gold at about 1 coin = 50 dollars. So a tea set worth a thousand dollars would be 20gp. Seems reasonable for the nice antiques.
That seems decent. It puts mail at $3,750 for example, which is on the cheap side historically, but well within the sensible range, particularly given the other armor. It also makes a typical horse $5000, and a warhorse $20,000 both of which are also fairly reasonable.

[Angelalex242]

...Whaaaaaat?

Horses are not more expensive then Plate.

[Knaight]

...Whaaaaaat?

Horses are not more expensive then Plate.

They are more expensive than mail, which Is what I used. Using the $50 per coin, plate comes in at a whopping $75,000. Mail's a bit of an odd case, but mail is really, really cheap within the rules.

[Coidzor]

Wasn't a good warhorse of good bloodline a great treasure compared even to arms and armor of mastermake, depending upon particular point in time?

A "bog-standard" warhorse, probably not, but, well, would a warhorse be bog-standard or would they all basically be masterwork horses, at least after the first couple generations of dedicated breeding for warhorses?


So how much should a set of quality silverware be worth in 5E? Anyone have a suggestion? Because if Elmo did pay 1300 gp for it, he was robbed.

I suppose you could make the really expensive stuff aluminum instead of silver? Depending upon whether anyone's bothered to figure out how to extract it from bauxite, I suppose. Or how available it is due to infinite planes...

[Angelalex242]

$75.000 for plate?

That's...

http://usedcars.overstock.com/detail/cars/ob-N7vRu0GAsba0CwtLC5bbNL17e2uzkQaHXcbbCGAbTMtIQA==/?pl=0&csearch=0&v_ref=aHR0cDovL3VzZWRjYXJzLm92ZXJzdG9jay5jb20vY2Fy cy9sb2NhdGlvbi1QYXNvLVJvYmxlcy0tQ0EvcHJpY2UtNzQwMD AuNzYwMDA%3D&v_user=b3ZlcnN0b2Nr

An example of a car you can buy for 75k.

I somehow don't think Plate's worth as much as a high end car.

[VeliciaL]

$75.000 for plate?

That's...

http://usedcars.overstock.com/detail/cars/ob-N7vRu0GAsba0CwtLC5bbNL17e2uzkQaHXcbbCGAbTMtIQA==/?pl=0&csearch=0&v_ref=aHR0cDovL3VzZWRjYXJzLm92ZXJzdG9jay5jb20vY2Fy cy9sb2NhdGlvbi1QYXNvLVJvYmxlcy0tQ0EvcHJpY2UtNzQwMD AuNzYwMDA%3D&v_user=b3ZlcnN0b2Nr

An example of a car you can buy for 75k.

I somehow don't think Plate's worth as much as a high end car.

They didn't have cars back then. They needed something to buy with that money.

[pwykersotz]

They didn't have cars back then. They needed something to buy with that money.

Despite the sarcasm, you're not wrong. Different values of the time and different technological capabilities matter greatly. Also keep in mind that by translating it to modern day dollars, you have to put it in the context of the value it has today. Good plate is worth one year of a middle class wage. Just because our technology baseline is higher doesn't mean much.

[Knaight]

$75.000 for plate?

That's...

http://usedcars.overstock.com/detail/cars/ob-N7vRu0GAsba0CwtLC5bbNL17e2uzkQaHXcbbCGAbTMtIQA==/?pl=0&csearch=0&v_ref=aHR0cDovL3VzZWRjYXJzLm92ZXJzdG9jay5jb20vY2Fy cy9sb2NhdGlvbi1QYXNvLVJvYmxlcy0tQ0EvcHJpY2UtNzQwMD AuNzYwMDA%3D&v_user=b3ZlcnN0b2Nr

An example of a car you can buy for 75k.

I somehow don't think Plate's worth as much as a high end car.

Given that a good set of armor could be comparable with houses during the period it was actually in use, I'd be inclined to disagree.

[Coidzor]

$75.000 for plate?

That's...

http://usedcars.overstock.com/detail/cars/ob-N7vRu0GAsba0CwtLC5bbNL17e2uzkQaHXcbbCGAbTMtIQA==/?pl=0&csearch=0&v_ref=aHR0cDovL3VzZWRjYXJzLm92ZXJzdG9jay5jb20vY2Fy cy9sb2NhdGlvbi1QYXNvLVJvYmxlcy0tQ0EvcHJpY2UtNzQwMD AuNzYwMDA%3D&v_user=b3ZlcnN0b2Nr

An example of a car you can buy for 75k.

I somehow don't think Plate's worth as much as a high end car.

Indeed. That's supposed to be equivalent to a high end warhorse and maybe its attendant gear, packhorses, and so on.

[Angelalex242]

...So when my Paladin gets his Warhorse and his Plate Armor, he's actually buying a Ferrari. Or so.

[Thrudd]

Did you miss that the owner of the "poor farm" is a retired 4th level fighter, one son is a 4th level ranger, and the other son who is away a 10th level ranger? Of course he has some expensive treasures stashed around his place, you don't get to 4th level without accumulating some shiny stuff. The town is full of former and current adventurers: the set-up of the module is that you've heard this is a place where adventurers come to seek their fortunes.
If the 1st-2nd level PC's want to start robbing people, they are going to be in for a surprise when the farmer and the smith and others turn out to be higher level than they are, and either kill them or kick them out of town for good. If evil characters want to come back when they are higher level and kill and steal everything, let them. By the time they're able to do that, the wealth found there will be a drop in the bucket to them.

[Telok]

For silver plate try (google!) $300 to $400 for fifty or sixty pieces of flatware. About an eight place setting.
8 knives (modern, 9"), 8 forks, 8 salad forks, 8 teaspoons, 8 place spoons, 1 tablespoon, 1 sugar spoon, 1 master butter spreader, 1 pierced pie server, 1 2 piece carving set.

Do note that I found this on a wholesaler/re-seller site. And we're not even talking about the actual plates yet! Start including things like bowls, tureens, and gravy boats... Plus you have to remember that all this stuff was hand made, today's stuff is banged out en-mass by machines but skilled silversmiths could be some of the richer people in town back in the old times.

Yeah, I can see some adventurer coming out of a dungeon with a nice set of silver and giving it to his parents for thier anniversary or a birthday. Never mind that it's worth $20k in today's money.

[VeliciaL]

Yeah, I can see some adventurer coming out of a dungeon with a nice set of silver and giving it to his parents for thier anniversary or a birthday. Never mind that it's worth $20k in today's money.

They might not even know exactly how much it's worth, they just found it and thought "Hey, this looks nice! Hmm, my parents' anniversary is soon..."

[Knaight]

Do note that I found this on a wholesaler/re-seller site. And we're not even talking about the actual plates yet! Start including things like bowls, tureens, and gravy boats... Plus you have to remember that all this stuff was hand made, today's stuff is banged out en-mass by machines but skilled silversmiths could be some of the richer people in town back in the old times.

It was hand made, but it also likely went through fewer steps with price hikes. Either way, the figures close to a thousand dollars aren't unreasonable.