Gestalt help

[torrasque666]

So I'm playing in a gestalt game and..... I got no idea what to make. Apparently almost all sources are allowed, though I'm still going to shy away from Dragon material because I personally don't have any of it.

Stats were rolled: 14 16 10 10 11 10 (this was the third set rolled)
alternatively, I can use my previous two rolls,

12 12 13 15 11 10 or 14 13 12 12 10 13 (my dice hate me)

I can place them anywhere. From what the DM has told me, it will be role-play centric than combat, so while I would normally go for a front-line fighter, I'm hesitant to do so in this game. I'm considering a Warblade//Psion, though he's still not sure if he's going to allow Psionics due to not knowing them well.

I was also looking into Binder. Any idea what to go with Binder? Flaws are allowed, but he does demand that they be appropriate for the character(no -2 combat rolls on a caster) and that the feat taken with them be equivalent to the impact of the flaw.

Also consider the idea of a Warlock, given its NAD status.

I'm looking for something that is not brokenly powerful(apparently I might be in a group of mostly martials or rogues) and is able to contribute both in and out of combat. So from what I understand, I'm looking for a T3.

[Vhaidara]

Well, if you want NAD game breaking, Warlock 1/Marshal 1/Binder 1/Factotum X//Bard 1/Warblade X.
Warlock: Grab Beguiling Influence
Marshal: Motivate Cha
Binder: Bind Naberius
Factotum: One of the best gestalt classes ever because of pure no action support abilities
Bard: Inspire Courage
Warblade: Song of the White Raven, support your team. Iron Heart maneuvers are good for damage independent of your stats.

Now, what does this get you? The ability to take 10 on Bluff and Diplomacy at all times, ignore the penalty for rushed Diplomacy, and a Diplomacy check (pre ranks) of 9+2xCha. So, for example, at level 3
16 in Cha, 14 in Int (skill points)
+6 Cha, +6 Ranks, +6 Synergy, +6 Beguiling Influence, +3 Skill Focus. Take 10, full round action, 37 diplomacy. And when that doesn't work, hit them with an Iron Heart Maneuver for tons of damage.

[Aegis013]

Binder is awesome, fun, and flavorful. I recommend it, since you don't need Cha to utilize its power, though it helps.

Incarnate (or Totemist for a more combat oriented version) might be interesting too, and kind of fills the same role in your build as Binder; giving you day-by-day interesting buffs and abilities. Though if your DM doesn't fully understand psionics, Incarnum might be worse, as the book is a bit less clearly laid out/well edited. For these you'll just want a good Con score. A 16 will easily be sufficient.

[Jeff the Green]

You could always go with the classic Wizard (or Psion)//Factotum. Your DCs won't be as high as they could be, but 16 is plenty high for a caster and the number inspiration points you get is based on class level, not Intelligence. If you can, of course, pick something like a lesser tiefling or savage progressions drow for the increased Intelligence.

Alternatively, pick a good monster or stack templates on one side and rely on those to give you the stats for whatever else you want to do with the other. Nothing gives bad dice rolls the finger like being a succubus Paladin.

[(Un)Inspired]

Go Binder//Bard/Sublime Chord. Binders are unbelievably cool as are sublime chords and the binder's various abilities (summon monster I'm looking at you) make up for the fact that sublime chords are somewhat handicapped by being spontaneous casters.

Moderate skill points are a bonus and bardic performance is always great to have, especially the arcane songs that sublime chord grants.

[torrasque666]

Well, if you want NAD game breaking, Warlock 1/Marshal 1/Binder 1/Factotum X//Bard 1/Warblade X.
That's..... almost the exact opposite of what I want. I want it to NOT be gamebreaking.



Warlock: Grab Beguiling Influence
Marshal: Motivate Cha
Binder: Bind Naberius
Factotum: One of the best gestalt classes ever because of pure no action support abilities
Bard: Inspire Courage
Warblade: Song of the White Raven, support your team. Iron Heart maneuvers are good for damage independent of your stats.

Now, what does this get you? The ability to take 10 on Bluff and Diplomacy at all times, ignore the penalty for rushed Diplomacy, and a Diplomacy check (pre ranks) of 9+2xCha. So, for example, at level 3
16 in Cha, 14 in Int (skill points)
+6 Cha, +6 Ranks, +6 Synergy, +6 Beguiling Influence, +3 Skill Focus. Take 10, full round action, 37 diplomacy. And when that doesn't work, hit them with an Iron Heart Maneuver for tons of damage.

You'll have to explain to me how this works, as I understand little more than "I'm big and I hit you with a sword the size of a house."


Alternatively, pick a good monster or stack templates on one side and rely on those to give you the stats for whatever else you want to do with the other. Nothing gives bad dice rolls the finger like being a succubus Paladin.

Unfortunately, monsters are a no-go. The start has to be viable at level 1, so no template stacking or monsters with RHD or any of that. Makes me kind of sad too.

[Vhaidara]

You'll have to explain to me how this works, as I understand little more than "I'm big and I hit you with a sword the size of a house."

Well, on one hand, you have the ability to hit people hard.
Factotum: Level 8 gives you Cunning Surge for getting a lot of standard actions
Warblade: Most maneuvers are initiated as Standard actions. So you can pop multiple maneuvers per turn.

The other pieces are enhancing your out of combat ability by allowing you to hack peoples brains if your GM doesn't nerf Diplomancy.
Warlock: Beguiling Influence is +6 to Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate
Marshal: Motivate Cha allows you to add your Cha bonus (again) to Cha based skills. And it gets you Skill Focus (Diplomacy) as a free feat
Binder: Naberius lets you take 10 on Bluff and Diplomacy checks, no questions asked, which removes the risk of blowing it on a 1. He also lets you ignore the -10 penalty for rushing a Diplomacy check (full round action instead of 10 rounds)
Bard: Good synergy with Warblade because of Song of the White Raven. Also gets you all of the synergy skills for diplomacy

[Fax Celestis]

If you like hitting things, why not do that just with more panache?

Duskblade//some int caster. I like Archivist because Arcane Channeling doesn't specify arcane spells, just spells, so feel free to tap people not very gently with things like contagion or inflict moderate wounds.

Swashbuckler//Beguiler is a weird mix, but you're practically Int/Dex completely dependent: you get free weapon finesse and get int casting and int to damage, plus 6+int skills from basically the entire list, and your spellcasting is very socially oriented. Plus a d10 HD, Armored Mage (Light) (which works perfectly with your Swashbuckler stuff), and full BAB.

Binder//Warlock or Binder//Dragonfire Adept (which I prefer) has a bunch of utility and gives you a host of forever abilities.

Dragonfire Adept//Dragon Shaman shores up the weak points of both classes and gives you terrific thematics.

[torrasque666]

Dragonfire Adept//Dragon Shaman shores up the weak points of both classes and gives you terrific thematics.

I was actually joking with him about doing a Dragonwraught Kobold, DA//DS who was obsessed with dragons. Actually, a regualr kobold would have worked for that just as well.

[Jeff the Green]

Unfortunately, monsters are a no-go. The start has to be viable at level 1, so no template stacking or monsters with RHD or any of that. Makes me kind of sad too.[/FONT]

Are monsters a hard ban? If not, you can use a monster class (mostly Savage Species, but there are a couple others laying around) or savage progression (online, among WotC's archived articles). Or you could keep adding LA+1 templates and/or retraining them later into higher ones. There are also a bunch of homebrew monster classes laying around. A compendium I like is here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?192151-Community-Based-Monster-Classes-VII).

[torrasque666]

Monsters aren't a hard ban, but we're starting at level 1.

AND it has to be viable in his homebrewed campaign setting.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Gnome, Druid//Unarmed Swordsage, Str 9, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 10. Keep max ranks in Handle Animal, Concentration, Survival, and Sense Motive, and try to get the printed x6 skill points at 1st level from Swordsage. Get a war-trained Riding Dog for your animal companion, and say you used Handle Animal to give it the Warbeast template in MM2. Get two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Love of Nature and No Time For Book Learning (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30)) for two extra feats (for Dragon magazine issues, google free game manuals). Take Ashbound, Greenbound Summoning, and Companion Spellbond, at 3rd get Natural Bond, at 6th get Natural Spell. When you hit 4th level get a new animal companion, either a Dire Eagle (RoS) or a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3), Natural Bond allows you to still count your full Druid level toward its benefits, and use Handle Animal to make it a Warbeast.

[Jeff the Green]

Monsters aren't a hard ban, but we're starting at level 1.

AND it has to be viable in his homebrewed campaign setting.

I can't help you with the second, but the various monster/template classes I mentioned all work from level one. They tend to be very bad unless used in gestalt, but there they can be fun.

[torrasque666]

I can't help you with the second, but the various monster/template classes I mentioned all work from level one. They tend to be very bad unless used in gestalt, but there they can be fun.

After looking through his setting, I'm considering Treant, because they exist in his setting, and I can dump STR with it initially, considering it will give me +18 STR eventually. Or I can plug my highest stat into STR, go barbarian on the other side, and start smashing things in the face with a bigass sword.

[defiantdan]

If you're not looking to bust the game up. Try gestalting classes with the incarnum classes. Druid//totemist is a a solid combo and it doesn't shatter the action economy and game like a wizard//factotum. There is a gestalt handbook somewhere in this forum.

[Fouredged Sword]

Play Groot.

Treant X // Druid (shifter varient)

Take flaws at 1st level to gain the Troll blooded feat.

At low levels you are a really hard to kill off druid. Use battlefield control spells to dominate encounters and shift into your predator form to fight in melee. Troll blooded will keep you alive unless someone starts throwing around fire.

As you grow, you get stacking size bonuses from Treant and you druid shifting forms. You should rapidly reach colossal.

Treant 13 / warshaper 4 / fighter 2 / X // Druid 20

Avoid fire. Fire is really dangerous to a Treant, and troll blooded means it is one of the few things that deals lethal damage to you.

[KingAtomsk]

Swordsage 2/Monk2/Shou Disciple 5/Thayan Gladiator 10/Soul Eater 1 // Warlock 3/Cloistered Cleric 3/Incarnate1/Eldritch Disciple 2/Hellfire Warlock 3/Legacy Champion 8

With the Eldritch Claws and Beast Strike feats you can deal out insane amounts of damage in a full attack

[DMVerdandi]

Definitely play Monster Class//Base class.

Those stats are abysmal. They need help, and an LA positive race or template can definitely help. Half-Celestial and Saint will give you monstrous stats.
Throw on cleric or druid on the right side, and you are set.

[torrasque666]

Definitely play Monster Class//Base class.

Those stats are abysmal. They need help, and an LA positive race or template can definitely help. Half-Celestial and Saint will give you monstrous stats.
Throw on cleric or druid on the right side, and you are set.

I was considering if the DM would let me run a Savage Progression Astral Deva for funnies, going cleric on the other side and eventually becoming a saint. However, I then considered that I DON'T WANT TO BE GAMEBREAKINGLY POWERFUL and thus, don't want a T1 class. And LA won't work because we're starting at level 1 and most of the good templates are inherited rather than applied.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I was considering if the DM would let me run a Savage Progression Astral Deva for funnies, going cleric on the other side and eventually becoming a saint. However, I then considered that I DON'T WANT TO BE GAMEBREAKINGLY POWERFUL and thus, don't want a T1 class. And LA won't work because we're starting at level 1 and most of the good templates are inherited rather than applied.

Templates can be gradually gained (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/sp). Half-Fey (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) halfway down is quite good, and perfect for a Warlock or any other high-Cha character. Use a base race that can take Magic in the Blood from PGtF so all your 1/day spell-like abilities can be used 3/day instead. For a Warlock, go Warlock 20// Anything 5/ Enlightened Spirit 10/ Anything 5. Everything Enlightened Spirit gives you is different from what Warlock gives you (bonus EB damage instead of increasing EB progression such as caster level, specific bonus invocations instead of general invocations known) and so it will all stack with Warlock on a gestalt character.