Should I allow this?

[Inevitability]

One of my players in a campaign I'm running ATM has expressed the desire to shake someone's hand, then cast Inflict Wounds, automatically hitting. Should I allow this or is this unbalanced?

I only have two players, both of which are 1st level. The game is more about social encounters and politics than combat. This player has little damage-dealing stuff, while the other is a 20 dex rogue.

[Yuki Akuma]

No, you shouldn't let someone try to cheat. Casting a spell isn't very stealthy - his target will know something's up and try to defend, so he needs to make an attack roll.

Inflict Wounds has both verbal and somatic components, remember. Do you really think someone waving their hand and speaking words of power is going to go unnoticed?

[Seppo87]

If he casted the spell prior to shaking hands, a bluff check might be appropriate.

If he casts the spell after taking the other person's hand, the other guy has enough time to realize that he's casting a spell.
Make an opposed grapple check.

edit: ops, I thought I was in the 3.5 forum

[Serafina]

Have the player explain how he manages to conceal that he is casting a spell, and make it more complicated than just a Sleight of Hand/Bluff skill check.

Having another character distract the target, casting the spell before entering the room etc. might work.
From there on out its essentially no different than stabbing the target with a dagger while shaking hands, regarding how it should be resolved.

[Yuki Akuma]

5e doesn't have the "holding the charge" rule, remember. You can't cast the spell and then touch someone later - part of the spell is in fact a melee spell attack.

[obryn]

Yeah, casting a spell - especially for a cleric - isn't subtle.

[Serafina]

Right, i totally overlooked that!

Well, then it is at best a different version of stealthily pulling a dagger to stab him with. Use the same mechanics you would for that, keeping in mind that you also have verbal components to conceal.

But yes, if the player can reasonably explain how his character uses skills to conceal his spellcasting, sure why not? Go ahead and allow it.

[Merc_Kilsek]

One of my players in a campaign I'm running ATM has expressed the desire to shake someone's hand, then cast Inflict Wounds, automatically hitting. Should I allow this or is this unbalanced?

There are a few ways this could be handled but a lot of this really is hinged on a more detailed encounter.

If the target is friendly the player should have surprise at least.
If the target has no reason to believe the PC would have harmed them I'd grant advantage.
If nothing else, if the player wants to, the target would be grappled at the very least.


So if the player meets with Frank the Friendly Friar to discuss *insert whatever* I'd easily see a surprise/advantage going on. If Frank has a little concern over the encounter I wouldn't grant advantage without at least a skill check. If this dirty deal was ever discover that player would have some serious backlash in your social/politic campaign among many circles.

I wouldn't allow a automatic hit thou. That's, in my opinion, a bit to much.

[rlc]

Depends on a few things. If the pc is much stronger than the target, I can see counting the handshake as an advantage on a grapple check as the cleric puts on his best evil grin and holds on really tight to the other guy's hand or pulls him in for a headlock and then casts the spell. I'd probably let that count as a hit for a roll of anything 2 or more. A roll of 1 is his god saying that ain't right.

[Sartharina]

I see no problem with it being an automatic hit. Combat rolls assume the target is interested in defending themselves from an attack - and even Surprise indicates that the person's trying to dodge. Trying to apply combat assumptions to non-combat situations is an abuse of the combat rules.

This is like someone voluntarily letting someone else stab them, or touch them with a beneficial spell. A deception roll should be all that's required.

[Demonic Spoon]

It would probably be a hard sell - anyone would pull their hand away when some guy in front of them looks to be casting a spell on them.

Personally, I'd allow a strength check to allow the cleric to hold onto the target's hand to prevent him from leaving while casting the spell with the other, though...

[Knaight]

I see no problem with it being an automatic hit. Combat rolls assume the target is interested in defending themselves from an attack - and even Surprise indicates that the person's trying to dodge. Trying to apply combat assumptions to non-combat situations is an abuse of the combat rules.

As has been stated before, casting a spell is not subtle. A combat roll might be necessary, depending on whether or not someone picks up on the trick ahead of time. That said, if the target can be convinced that a different spell is being cast, which has business being cast, an automatic hit should work just fine. Even without that, if the spell starts with the hand being shook, it's less a matter of an attack roll and more a matter of whether the target can break the hold or attack the caster and break the spell.

[Totema]

I'd only allow this if the caster were a sorcerer using the subtle spell metamagic option.

[Crackhead]

5e doesn't have the "holding the charge" rule, remember. You can't cast the spell and then touch someone later - part of the spell is in fact a melee spell attack.

What about the "ready" action that lets you cast ahead of time? If he manages to shake hands, that seems like a free hit.

[Pink]

My thoughts:

The cleric makes a deception check. If successful, automatic grapple. If unsuccessful, The cleric gets a surprise round during which they have to roll to successfully grapple the target or not.

In any event, after it has been determined whether the target is grappled or not, regular initiative starts. If the opponent rolls higher initiative, they get a chance to react/break free/attack while the cleric begins to chant the spell. If the cleric goes first and they are grappling the target, well, it's a touch spell and they are already touching the target with one hand and have the other free for somatic components, I see no reason not to auto-succeed (though by the same intention, no chance to crit if they don't want to roll). If the target is not grappled, they have to roll an attack normally.

It could be short sighted of me, however, I see no problem with allowing touch attacks to auto-succeed if the opponent is already successfully grappled. In general, this is a poorer tactic than outright using the touch attack, as the opponent has a chance to break out the the grapple or just attack the caster first before they can get the spell off. There is a greater risk in doing this tactic, therefore I believe it is worth giving a reward. I also believe that 5e is made with the intention to have some of these 'off the wall' tactics to make up for an otherwise, slightly bland battle system.

[MrUberGr]

In 3.5 there was a "thing" where you could do a Sleight of Hand check, to cast the somatic component unnoticed. For the verbal component, I guess it would have to clash with the passive perception of the other person. Now, if there is a material or focus, then I think it gets kind of hard to do. This will be glowing, burning up etc...