Is the Verdant bloodline any good?

[Hazrond]

So I am considering making a pathfinder sorcerer, when I looked the class up I noticed that they have this odd bloodline mechanic that seems actually pretty cool to me, the character would be from a forest so I thought "hey there's a plant bloodline here, looks kinda neat" and I wanted to see what the people here at giant thought of it, Link to Bloodline here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/verdant-bloodline)

[caimbuel]

IMO it is ok at best, manuvers with your CMB will be pathetic most of the time. Your bloodline spells are pretty meh as well as feat selection. To match the fluff you could "worship" nature and spend 2 feats to get an animal companion tho.

Perhaps if you told us what kind of sorcerer you were thinking of we could help with the bloodline decisions more.

[Hazrond]

Perhaps if you told us what kind of sorcerer you were thinking of we could help with the bloodline decisions more.

Now dont laugh, but i want to do a Kitsune using the Realistic Likeness and the whole line of Magical Tail feats, i just love the idea of the whole nine-tail concept and wanted to use it along with my other stuff

[caimbuel]

Depending on your group it can work, if they are low power, low optimization. If not that many feats is way to much for me, 9 feats on SLA's usable 2/day when you will cast most of them before you get the feat to cast them. Wish you luck on the build tho, definitely sounds interesting.

[Zrak]

I'd say it's a great base for a multiclass sorcerer, since it's pretty front-loaded and provides some nice benefits for a multi-class character. The tanglevine power is pretty useful at low levels; since it uses your sorcerer level + cha as your CMB instead of your normal CMB, you'll be about as effective with the maneuvers as a fighter of your level, maybe even moreso. Unfortunately, CMB scales pretty poorly in comparison to CMD, especially taking increasingly larger opponents into account, so tanglevine will (like maneuvers in general) become progressively less useful as the campaign goes on. Photosynthesis can be anywhere from mediocre to great depending on how relevant it is to your group's playstyle. The arcana's not great, but it's not exactly terrible, either. It should stack with barkskin, but the wording is confusing so your DM might decide it doesn't. Entangle is a great spell you couldn't normally get as a sorcerer, and it can remain relevant at high levels moreso than a lot of level 1 spells can, at least. Most of your other spells are fairly lackluster, though transport via plants could be situationally useful and there's not really a downside to casting shamblers once a week. The other bloodline powers aren't great on their own, but massmorph has some cool synergies with other stuff.

Like I was saying, though, the Verdant bloodline really shines when you multiclass out of it before you get to the mediocre stuff. Your best bet is probably Verdant Sorcerer 4/Wood Oracle 1/Mystic Theurge 10, using the bend the grain revelation to qualify Mystic Theurge. Plus, wood oracle is thematically consistent with the build, which is nice. You'll get most of the good abilities from the verdant bloodline and cast as a sorcerer 14/Oracle 11. After that, you can either continue with sorcerer to pick up massmorph and a small bonus to saves or go into another prestige class. You'd probably be better off with another full casting prestige class if you have room in the build to meet the prerequisites, but that might be hard with nine feats already in the build.

EDIT: Veiled Illusionist isn't actually that hard to qualify for, and fits the disguise/trickery aspect of the Kitsune theme nicely. I might go for Verdant Sorcerer 4/Wood Oracle 1/Mystic Theurge 9/Veiled Illusionist 6 rather than Mystic Theurge 10/Veiled Illusionist 5. You'd lose a couple Oracle spells known, but gain one illusion spell of your choice and the ability to concentrate on certain kinds of illusions as a swift action.

[Spore]

Now dont laugh, but i want to do a Kitsune using the Realistic Likeness and the whole line of Magical Tail feats, i just love the idea of the whole nine-tail concept and wanted to use it along with my other stuff

Honestly for a Kitsune you should go for Realistic Likeness, skip the Magic Tail feats and take the Fey Bloodline. It is much more in line with what you try to pull off. Enchantments, Illusions and the like. Just get the spells you buy with Magic Tail on your sorcerer list.

Refluffing the tails as the source of the sorcerer magic and refluffing the bloodline from fey to "magical woodland creature" shouldn't be too hard. This way you can stay single class and be more effective while still having tons of flavor.

[Zrak]

Yeah, Fey is outright better. It gives better spells, the arcana is great, the feats are excellent, and some of the bloodline powers are absolutely ridiculous. Greater invisibility for 20 rounds/day without spending a spell slot? Sure! Reroll any caster level check to overcome spell resistance at will? Don't mind if I do. Even the first level power can stay relatively useful at high levels; there are worse things than a no save touch attack to basically make an enemy lose a round.

If non-Paizo bloodlines are in the mix, Mystic Woodland is also a good choice. The bloodline arcana and powers probably aren't quite as useful as the Fey powers, on the whole, but the first level power is absurdly good, the feats are solid, and the spells are off the chain.

[Psyren]

So I am considering making a pathfinder sorcerer, when I looked the class up I noticed that they have this odd bloodline mechanic that seems actually pretty cool to me, the character would be from a forest so I thought "hey there's a plant bloodline here, looks kinda neat" and I wanted to see what the people here at giant thought of it, Link to Bloodline here. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines-from-paizo/verdant-bloodline)

Let's do the rundown:

Bonus Skill: Know (nature), one of the big 4, which is good. But since you are a sorcerer you probably aren't the knowledge guy anyway. Still, this can come in handy if nobody else has it for some reason, which can sometimes be the case.

Bonus Spells: A few gems. Entangle and barkskin are nice early on and the latter scales. Speak with Plants/Command Plants are only rarely useful. Wall of Thorns is one of the weaker walls but can work for battlefield control in a pinch. TVP is pointless by the time you get it because you should have Teleport already or GT shortly, plus they are faster and using them near an enemy doesn't kill you. Plant Shape 3 is great because the right kind of regeneration makes you nearly impossible to kill. Animate Plants is useful in the right environments. Shambler is very weak for its level.

Bonus Feats: Almost universally bad, save for Extend Spell.

Bloodline Arcana: Useless because it doesn't stack with anything and you get barkskin.

Tanglevine: This is terrible because you need a standard just to make the vine! Thus it generally takes two rounds to do anything with it, and then you have to make another one. It's also hard to boost your check. The range is nice though.

Photosynthesis/Massmorph: Too weak/situational.

Rooting: The big boon here is the tremorsense, but even that comes online way too late. The rest is barely worth mentioning and the drawback is painful.

Capstone: This is endgame for most campaigns and thus generally not worth evaluating - however, the immunities and constant tremorsense are nice.


Verdict: As others have said, skip it - there are better ways to be a "nature sorcerer," Fey being one of the best.

[Hazrond]

Let's do the rundown: Bonus Skill: Know (nature), one of the big 4, which is good...I liked this one as well
...Bloodline Arcana: Useless because it doesn't stack with anything and you get barkskin... Kinda agree here, i dont see the practicality personally on this part

...Tanglevine: This is terrible because you need a standard just to make the vine!... actually its a standard to make the vine AND do the maneuver, otherwise it wouldnt work because it only lasts 1 round

...Photosynthesis/Massmorph: Too weak/situational...
i actually was really in favor of photosynthesis, a free ring slot is A-OK in my book (I personally LOVE ring of sustenance)

[Psyren]

Actually its a standard to make the vine AND do the maneuver, otherwise it wouldnt work because it only lasts 1 round.

This might have been the intent but it is not worded that way at all. (It's just badly worded in general - does it replace your entire CMB, size bonuses and all? Does it just replace the BAB and ability modifier portions?) And even if you can form the whip and make the maneuver all in one round, it's still very weak - without the feat chains that go with these maneuvers you will end up behind the CMD curve vs. many foes before long, not to mention that you are at a strong disadvantage relative to many monsters when using these techniques. Disarm and steal. for instance, are useless against monsters that don't have weapons - which is a great many of them (animals, magical beasts, vermin, oozes, plants, many constructs and undead etc.) while trip is hard enough to pull off normally, never mind against quadrupeds and similarly stable foes.


i actually was really in favor of photosynthesis, a free ring slot is A-OK in my book (I personally LOVE ring of sustenance)

This only replicates the "you don't need to eat" portion of the ring. The more useful aspects like the reduced sleep time are not covered.

[Leohan]

Hello! First time poster here, although I do visit the forums often, specially for build ideas. Sorry for reviving such an old thread, but I figured my question didn't warrant a new one.

Basically, I'm considering adapting an old character of mine to Pathfinder in the future. I'll spare you the backstory and say that, in her original setting, she is basically a chaotic good Poison Ivy that uses actual magic without having ever studied it. By no means versatile, but as long as there is plant life around she makes the rules.

So what I need is advice on how to make an actually powerful Verdant sorceress. By reading guides and thinking about it I've figured a couple of things:

- Cha > Dex > Int > Con > Wis > Str
- Focus on control spells. Not many options for high damage when using plant-based spells, but I can sure as hell troll my enemies.
- Keep potted plants in my inventory in case I ever go to a cave or anywhere without underground roots. I should get a portable hole or a bag of holding, maybe, for keeping big plants and vines.
- I see that a lot of the bloodline spells are transmutation, so I should probably have that spell focus. Also Summon Plant Ally, if I can manage to convince my master of using non-core feats.

I can't decide if I'd rather use basic Verdant or Groveborn, though. I like the arcana of the first and the third level power of the second. And even if these ideas work out I can't picture getting something too impressive out of this build. Are these ideas any good? What else could I add? Perhaps I am limiting myself by wanting this so specifically, but I really want to keep this character similar to the original concept while being both a valuable asset to the party and reliably able to, occasionally, do some cool stuff.


Cheers!

EDIT: I am aware that there aren't enough plant-stuff spells to sustain a sorcerer that only does that, by the way. I'm trying to keep it as thematically appropriate as possible, though.

[TheFamilarRaven]

- Misstyped -