The Nature of Evil

[Tanuki Tales]

So, I've been a GM for the longest time and had no issues with presenting villains and nefarious folks of different creeds, outlooks and motivations for my players to interact and grapple with. But these have always been bit parts and temporary roles to be played within the greater fabric of the game world being run. Now that I'm finding myself once again a player (got burned out being a GM after so long; just can't do it anymore and am getting dangerously close to being burned out of playing ttrpgs in general), I find myself apprehensive. A player character has far more investment from their player than a GM (should) put into an NPC and when I used to be a player, I either played those of a Good bent or of a neutral proclivity (with Good tendencies).

This time around though, I'm playing an evil character (the build originally went for a Lawful Goodish character, but I ended up deciding it was a little too silly and not particularly optimized or fleshed out) and I'm trying to delve into how to being something more than a Card Carrying Villain who's flat and one dimensional. So, other than "don't be Chaotic Stupid" and "don't do stuff just for the Evulz", what advice do you all have on playing an evil character?

[Jeff the Green]

How evil do you want to be? There's petty evil (the traditional example is the tavern owner who cheats everyone, bullies his neighbors, and won't help anyone without recompense), well-intentioned extremists, and baby-eating, plus everything in between.

[GameSpawn]

Is the rest of your party evil? If not, I'd recommend you make your character selfish, but maybe make them cowardly or conflict averse or have some other mitigating factor that means the other players could reasonably trust them.

[Tanuki Tales]

How evil do you want to be? There's petty evil (the traditional example is the tavern owner who cheats everyone, bullies his neighbors, and won't help anyone without recompense), well-intentioned extremists, and baby-eating, plus everything in between.

I'm playing a Bugbear Teramach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286983-3-5-Base-Class-quot-I-want-to-live-inside-a-castle-built-of-your-agony!-quot) for the Skulls and Shackles adventure path.

I was kicking around the idea of him being a more cultured and restrained kind of monster, maybe something like a mercenary Hannibal Lecter.

Alignment is going to be played very loosely outside of spell interaction and the GM mentioned he plans to play it more like the Paragon/Renegade system from Mass Effect.

Edit:

And that tavern owner doesn't sound evil to me, just selfish and petty. He could reasonably just be some flavor of Neutral.

[Ratatoskir]

I'm a fan of making evil characters that fight for good. Something like The Punisher, or Rorschach (or even better, the Comedian) from the Watchman. Completely willing to crush the bad guys in any way needed, no lines drawn whatsoever. This is a decent way (imo) to play CE and still fit into a group.

[A.A.King]

I like the kind of evil who is totally in it for himself. It's a person who calculates every move and doesn't do something if it isn't a gain for him. Mind you, this gain doesn't have to be (and in fact most of the time probably won't be) something you can instantly measure in gold. The most obvious gain for this kind of character is goodwill/trust. You want your party to know that they can rely on you, that you'll not abandon them at the first sign of trouble. If you say you'll do it, they know you'll do it and more. (The more being at least 3 hidden motives you'll also accomplish when they aren't looking). Obviously once in a while you can do things quid pro quo when your party really needs you and you really want that new magic item. Just make sure that you channel your inner rule-lawyer before you make a promise. If you go of on one of your many angles you want to be able to say afterwards that you did exactly as promised. You helped them accomplish X, you never said you wouldn't also do Y and Z.

[Red Fel]

This time around though, I'm playing an evil character (the build originally went for a Lawful Goodish character, but I ended up deciding it was a little too silly and not particularly optimized or fleshed out) and I'm trying to delve into how to being something more than a Card Carrying Villain who's flat and one dimensional. So, other than "don't be Chaotic Stupid" and "don't do stuff just for the Evulz", what advice do you all have on playing an evil character?

Ahh, the soothing sounds of footsteps as someone begins the tread down the moral slippery slope. As one halfling famously said, "Welcome to the deep end of the alignment pool, pal. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0645.html)"

I could lecture for hours about the merits and benefits of playing Evil - in fact, I have. Ordinarily, I'd start by asking what particular flavor of Evil you've got in your sights, but you've very helpfully clarified that point:

I'm playing a Bugbear Teramach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?286983-3-5-Base-Class-quot-I-want-to-live-inside-a-castle-built-of-your-agony!-quot) for the Skulls and Shackles adventure path.

I was kicking around the idea of him being a more cultured and restrained kind of monster, maybe something like a mercenary Hannibal Lecter.

So let's start with what you're playing - Bugbear Teramach - and go from there, shall we?

Bugbear: Bugbears, compared with other Goblinoids, are accustomed to being the biggest, baddest boys in the room. They are clever enough to use ambush tactics, but massive enough to use brute force. Bugbears, compared with other Bugbears, need to be the biggest, baddest boys in the room, because strength is precisely what Bugbears will respect - the Bugbear leader is the biggest Bugbear in town, and not by accident. So race gives you two immediately visible options: You're the biggest, baddest Bugbear in town. You may or may not be smarter than your peers, but you're definitely tougher, and more savage. CE is an easy alignment for this. You would play it as a barely-restrained animal; the sort of character who is smart enough to know that indiscriminate killing tends to end badly, but savage enough to almost want to do it anyway. This is the sort of character who uses excuses like "The only reason I haven't killed you is..." and mean it. If let off the chain by the party, he will grin broadly before he cracks his enemies open like so much overripe cantaloupe. You're the smartest Bugbear in town. That's both a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because it allows you to plan miles around the other Bugbears. A curse, because everyone has to sleep sometime, and you have no doubt that they will kill you. So you leave, and join up with people who recognize the value of strength and cunning united in one form. NE and LE are more up your alley. This is really a fun character concept, because it allows you to explore misconceptions - people will assume you a crass, stupid brute when they meet you, because Bugbear. You can either indulge their stereotypes, only to shock them with the truth later, or stun them immediately with your intellect and taste. Keep in mind, however, that as cultured as you may be, your character is still a Bugbear, known for having a short temper; even Lecter eventually exposed his inner monster, regardless of how carefully he kept it in check.
Now, let's look at your class choice: The Teramach. I adore this class. Even though I tend to play smart, sophisticated Evil, I love the sheer, disgusting brutality the Teramach embodies. I should point out that, given that many of the Teramach's later abilities involve being in a more-or-less perpetual state of bloody rage, remaining Lawful is a challenge. A challenge, but not an impossibility. Let's consider some options. The Teramach Controlled. Your character is intelligent enough to understand that the beast grants him substantial power, but also intelligent enough to know that it's the sort of power that leaves one on the business end of torches and pitchforks. So he plays it smart. He's already a big guy, there's no reason to use it as a crutch. This is sort of an evil, physically fit Bruce Banner - he's smart enough to use his assets wisely, physically capable of defending himself, and if in doubt, he can unleash his "Don't make me angry." The Teramach Unleashed. This is the opposite. He revels in the beast, and wants to share it with the world. Perhaps he's used to being the big guy, and sees this as the natural extension of that power. Perhaps he's used to being the little guy, and sees this as a chance to put himself on top. Unlike The Teramach Controlled, he keeps his dark side out almost perpetually, recognizing the value of such a destructive force of nature being harnessed to a capable mind.
Okay. So I've laid my thoughts out (as much for my reference as yours), now let's see what I can offer you. Grey Hulk: The Incredible Hulk, one of the archetypical Teramachs, went through many incarnations. One of them was the Grey Hulk, also known as Joe Fixit. Grey Hulk was cunning, smart, and still brutally powerful (although not quite as powerful as his mindless green counterpart). This is your model. He knows he's not the smartest guy in the room, but he also knows that everyone assumes him the dumbest. He's just deceitful enough to let them believe it, too. He loves being tough enough to inflict pain, and doesn't stop with just physical trauma, either; he knows how to hurt people, emotionally and psychologically as well as bodily. This kind of character doesn't cause harm "for the evulz," but he won't shy away from it; he appreciates the value of a precision megaton punch. You can play him surprisingly easily - take your typical Barbarian archetype, who loves fighting and combat; add a healthy amount of horse sense and a fist the size of your skull; then mix in a little dash of malice and sadism. (Mm, little bit more sadism, yeah.) Some tips for this: Think predatory animal. Grin a lot at small things. Scowl at things of comparable size. Do predatory things, like leaning, leering, over an NPC, grinning broadly, and whispering, "You smell terrified" or "You know, I could pop you and your friends like tiny grapes. Pop, pop, pop." Be an animal in combat. Roar, howl, use the big boy voice. Out of combat, be smug and imposing. You're the biggest boy in the room, and animals show that off. Stand in doorways. Loom up large. Let your pecs do the talking. Dr. Lecter: Let's take the cunning to an extreme. Hannibal - one of my favorite villains ever, by the way - was basically as tight as a wire throughout the entire film. And that's how you play him. Totally controlled, tightly tamped down in every respect. Soft voice, soft smile, knowing smirk. Careful thoughts, observant eyes. And he's restrained by necessity - when your Lecter flips out, as he inevitably does (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He1MTYvyUes) (warning, violent movie scene), it's a short, sweet, and utterly stomach-turning spectacle. And all the rest of the time, he's an absolutely razor-sharp wire. That's precisely how you would play this character - like Lecter, but with a few tons of muscle behind him. Some tips: Use your quiet voice. Always. Except when raging out - then use no voice at all. Just senseless, indistinguishable howls. This will emphasize the distinction between what you pretend to be and what you really are. Remember that you are, deep down, a monster. No amount of class, fancy clothes and music, or extensive elocution lessons can truly change that. But let other people forget about the monster. Play the mask to the hilt. Don't let other people force the monster out - it obeys only you. Then, once everyone is convinced that they know you, remind them that within you slumbers the most terrifying force in all of creation. Your inner beast is an exclamation point, not the whole sentence. Because the mask takes up so much of your time, it keeps you super-tense. Study the masters of intensity. Anthony Hopkins is one hell of a start. Observe how tightly restrained that character is. Even when he pretends to be casual, he's clearly not. His movements are precise and efficient, his posture is straight and rigid. The only time your character should loosen up is when he is sprawling over the corpses of his enemies, disemboweling them with his thumbs. Anytime he isn't the monster, he should be made of absolute steel - unbent, unbowed, unreadable.
Now, for some general tips on Evil: Evil has a reason. "For the evulz" isn't only tasteless, it's boring; it's completely shallow. Truly delicious Evil has a reason for its actions. Maybe you weren't hugged enough as a child. Maybe you seek revenge for some slight, real or imagined. Maybe you have a bizarre religious belief in eating still-beating hearts. Maybe you really like the noise a windpipe makes as it goes crunch under your left thumb. Give the character a reason to do what he does; do nothing simply "because." We're not so different, you and I. Evil characters play just like Good characters, in most respects. They form relationships, have memories, have formative years, they love, hate, envy and covet. Playing an Evil character on a day-to-day basis is just like playing a Good one, with one defining difference... Evil is without limit. Good characters have morals. These morals tell them what they should or should not do. These morals keep them from using torture, poison, rape, genocide, because those are naughty things. Evil doesn't have limits. Embrace that fact. You may be faced with hard decisions, dilemmas, areas where there is no best option. This isn't a problem for you; you don't suffer from moral dillemas because you don't suffer from morals. Don't be afraid to be brutally effective, or effectively brutal. If a hundred people have to die to stop a plague from spreading, you may just kill them yourself; or you may simply enjoy the horrified screams as the people realize that you not only let the plague spread, you introduced it. Don't let yourself be bogged down between right and wrong; instead, decide between "I win" and "You lose." Evil doesn't have to be a jerk. This is a big one. As a Russian bear wrestler once opined, "You are [a] bad guy. But this does not mean you are [a] bad guy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh4f8SUp-PU)" Just because you're Evil doesn't mean you have to be a jerk to your fellow partymembers, or make things difficult for them. In fact, even the most bloodthirsty CE characters can develop a healthy respect and admiration for their fellow murderers.

[Tanuki Tales]

Red...I think that was my favorite post on this forums ever. :smallbiggrin:

I'd love to discuss this more with you; would you prefer over PMs or to keep it to this thread for the benefit of others?

[Azoth]

I will contribute more when I am home and not at work, but I do have a point of contention with the above 101 to Being Evil.

Evil, just like good can posses morals and have their lines.

One of my favorite villans is Richard B. Riddick from Pitch Black. This is before he crosses over into more of an anti-hero in his later renditions. In this movie, he has a line he will not cross. This is a convict with multiple murders, thefts, and other various crimes on his rap sheet. He has the highest bounty on his head in his series universe. He makes killing a sadistic game, and even he has clear cut lines.

Riddick will not kill a child. When Johns, the suppossed good guy, suggests that Riddick kill Jack (Kirra) and use her corpse as bait to keep the alien horde off their back, Riddick can clearly be seen having a moment of "Dude, you just crossed a very big line." He seemed all for the plan, and even seemed to size up the members of their group, all unti Johns wanted it to be Jack.

This single decision was the final catilyst for Riddick to decide Johns had to die. Right then and there.

[jaydubs]

Learn to sublimate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(psychology)). If I hurt these random peasants and steal from this merchant, the guards will throw me in jail. If I kill these bandits, and steal from these drow, the mayor gives me medals.

When you think about it, adventurer is a perfect occupation for evil people. You can murder your way across the countryside, and they'll celebrate you for it, so long as you make sure to murder the right people.

[Red Fel]

Red...I think that was my favorite post on this forums ever. :smallbiggrin:

I'd love to discuss this more with you; would you prefer over PMs or to keep it to this thread for the benefit of others?

However you prefer. I'm receptive to either option.

[Tanuki Tales]

However you prefer. I'm receptive to either option.

Alrighty.

So, to frame this as this is Pathfinder, not 3.5: Bugbears (http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Bugbear).

With that out of the way:

I've planned for his background so far that he was part of a litter of urban bugbears, but who ended up being too weak to survive on his own. He was happened upon by a human serial killer, who for whatever reason wanted both a child and a protege to continue his legacy. His "adoptive father" nursed him back to health and had a Bestow Curse cast on him to minimize many of his natural features to allow him to more easily "move amongst the vermin". Now, while he took to his "father's" teachings, he thought that his "old man" was both short sighted and unnecessarily obsessed in his expressions of rage and violence. This, of course, makes him a deviant when it comes to bugbear psychology, but one of his core tennets would be, "if you're good at something, never do it for free".

So I guess I'm looking at balancing him between Joe Fixit and Hannibal Lecter...so I guess Victor Creed?

[Red Fel]

Alrighty.

So, to frame this as this is Pathfinder, not 3.5: Bugbears (http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Bugbear).

With that out of the way:

I've planned for his background so far that he was part of a litter of urban bugbears, but who ended up being too weak to survive on his own. He was happened upon by a human serial killer, who for whatever reason wanted both a child and a protege to continue his legacy. His "adoptive father" nursed him back to health and had a Bestow Curse cast on him to minimize many of his natural features to allow him to more easily "move amongst the vermin". Now, while he took to his "father's" teachings, he thought that his "old man" was both short sighted and unnecessarily obsessed in his expressions of rage and violence. This, of course, makes him a deviant when it comes to bugbear psychology, but one of his core tennets would be, "if you're good at something, never do it for free".

So I guess I'm looking at balancing him between Joe Fixit and Hannibal Lecter...so I guess Victor Creed?

Hmm... So you want someone with an emphasis on the mask, for whatever his motivations. I think I can help. For this exercise, I want you to imagine.

Imagine that you have a dog on a leash. Now, some dogs are lovable, and some are less than nice; this one is neither. This is a dog who has known only abuse and hatred, and he has fed from that trough for so long that it has filled him. This is a dog of pure malice, loathing, and fury; a creature that knows only rage, and the blackest pits are all that remain of its heart. It longs to kill, to destroy, to ravage. It is also the size of a raging bull, and has the friendly and affectionate temperament of a school of piranha. You, and you alone, hold the leash to this beast. Your arm is constantly tense and taut with the exertion. Nerves are frayed, muscles stretched to the point of ripping. But here's the catch.

The dog and leash are invisible.

All anybody can see is you, and your tensed arm. You can try to cover it up, smile, claim you pulled something at the gym, wear a bulky sleeve, but that tension is written just below the surface, and everyone will notice it, consciously or otherwise.

Now, you realize how easy it would be to simply let go of the leash, release the hound, and let him demolish the countryside. It would feel so good, so relaxing. But you don't. Because it would be wrong; because people must be protected; because the beast must be harnessed to positive ends.

At least, that's what the Good Teramach says. He stretches and strains against the leash that keeps his monstrous side in check. You? You're Evil. You are the dog, not the master. You don't try to control the dark side; you are the dark side. Rather, that master is simply a mask you wear. The tension is real, but the mask is the artificial construct.

You've described to me a runt of a Bugbear, made even more runt-y, in part by choice and in part as part of his "schooling" by the old man. He wants to be able to move among the populace, choose his prey, savor the fear he causes before ending them. His beast - his true self - is a tool towards that end, and one he relishes using. But by the same token, he realizes that if he simply lets the dog off the leash, he won't get to savor what he enjoys - mixing among the vermin, walking unheeded and unnoticed until he chooses to be, finding the right target and feasting on their terror. So he maintains the mask, his inner monster straining to escape, the effort barely showing on his face.

Does that one sound entertaining?

[Tanuki Tales]

Hmm... So you want someone with an emphasis on the mask, for whatever his motivations. I think I can help. For this exercise, I want you to imagine.

Imagine that you have a dog on a leash. Now, some dogs are lovable, and some are less than nice; this one is neither. This is a dog who has known only abuse and hatred, and he has fed from that trough for so long that it has filled him. This is a dog of pure malice, loathing, and fury; a creature that knows only rage, and the blackest pits are all that remain of its heart. It longs to kill, to destroy, to ravage. It is also the size of a raging bull, and has the friendly and affectionate temperament of a school of piranha. You, and you alone, hold the leash to this beast. Your arm is constantly tense and taut with the exertion. Nerves are frayed, muscles stretched to the point of ripping. But here's the catch.

The dog and leash are invisible.

All anybody can see is you, and your tensed arm. You can try to cover it up, smile, claim you pulled something at the gym, wear a bulky sleeve, but that tension is written just below the surface, and everyone will notice it, consciously or otherwise.

Now, you realize how easy it would be to simply let go of the leash, release the hound, and let him demolish the countryside. It would feel so good, so relaxing. But you don't. Because it would be wrong; because people must be protected; because the beast must be harnessed to positive ends.

At least, that's what the Good Teramach says. He stretches and strains against the leash that keeps his monstrous side in check. You? You're Evil. You are the dog, not the master. You don't try to control the dark side; you are the dark side. Rather, that master is simply a mask you wear. The tension is real, but the mask is the artificial construct.

You've described to me a runt of a Bugbear, made even more runt-y, in part by choice and in part as part of his "schooling" by the old man. He wants to be able to move among the populace, choose his prey, savor the fear he causes before ending them. His beast - his true self - is a tool towards that end, and one he relishes using. But by the same token, he realizes that if he simply lets the dog off the leash, he won't get to savor what he enjoys - mixing among the vermin, walking unheeded and unnoticed until he chooses to be, finding the right target and feasting on their terror. So he maintains the mask, his inner monster straining to escape, the effort barely showing on his face.

Does that one sound entertaining?

You really do have a gift for these kinds of thought exercises. :smallbiggrin:

This is getting really close to what I was envisioning, but I was imagining that while most Bugbears treat the fear they engender like a snobby aristocrat who has just gotten a bottle of extremely fine wine, he would be more interested in getting a very good (but not exquisite) beer whenever he wanted, with a good steak dinner and maybe a lapdance to go along with it.

Like I said, I want one of his core tenets to be that Dark Knight Joker line; his "old man" tittered over picking his victims, using such long criteria and in the end, while his reward was ultimately self-gratification, all he expended far more than he ultimately gained. Picking up on what jaydubs said, I was thinking about using some form of sublimation in his psychology, in that he realizes that what his "father" did to a select few at his own cost, people would be willing to pay him to do against far many others. So while I am looking at Victor Creed as a kind of modeling board for this character, I guess you could say that I'm also looking at him filling a similar role as post-epiphany Belkar or Venom during his Lethal Protector phase (not the self delusion, but the actual role).

His "old man" was eventually found out and put down because society abhors a mad dog killing wantonly at its own discretion. But a hound that they think is theirs and who they believe they are directing against the rats of society or the dark things beyond their doors? Ratatoskir mentioned The Comedian as an example of evil characters being put to constructive ends and that's how men like him keep going on in a society; they're useful.

[Red Fel]

You really do have a gift for these kinds of thought exercises. :smallbiggrin:

This is getting really close to what I was envisioning, but I was imagining that while most Bugbears treat the fear they engender like a snobby aristocrat who has just gotten a bottle of extremely fine wine, he would be more interested in getting a very good (but not exquisite) beer whenever he wanted, with a good steak dinner and maybe a lapdance to go along with it.

Like I said, I want one of his core tenets to be that Dark Knight Joker line; his "old man" tittered over picking his victims, using such long criteria and in the end, while his reward was ultimately self-gratification, all he expended far more than he ultimately gained. Picking up on what jaydubs said, I was thinking about using some form of sublimation in his psychology, in that he realizes that what his "father" did to a select few at his own cost, people would be willing to pay him to do against far many others. So while I am looking at Victor Creed as a kind of modeling board for this character, I guess you could say that I'm also looking at him filling a similar role as post-epiphany Belkar or Venom during his Lethal Protector phase (not the self delusion, but the actual role).

His "old man" was eventually found out and put down because society abhors a mad dog killing wantonly at its own discretion. But a hound that they think is theirs and who they believe they are directing against the rats of society or the dark things beyond their doors? Ratatoskir mentioned The Comedian as an example of evil characters being put to constructive ends and that's how men like him keep going on in a society; they're useful.

Interesting. Okay, so let's figure out how this character would think. Let's run through the usual questions.

1. What made me the monster I am today? Well, he's a Bugbear; he comes from a society of hunters and fearmongers. As you say, he isn't as picky or artful about where he gets his favorite poison; instead, he's more artful in being able to do so with societal approval. Nice call, there. He's also the student of a murderer, but while he learned some skills and style from the old man, he didn't adhere to the fellow's precautions or pickiness. What we get from his past, then, is a departure from caution and selectiveness, and a ready embracing of one's ability to cause fear and harm; but while the former is indiscriminate (and don't be afraid, no pun intended, to scare your partymembers a little), the latter is more discriminating.

2. Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight? What are his immediate goals? Fortunately, as nuanced as a character like this may play, his goals can be remarkably simple - scare people, kill people, get paid to do it, not necessarily in that order. You've pointed out that he has figured a way to ply his trade with social approval; most likely, his short-term goals include precisely that.

3. I'll have mine so rare it screams. How does he do his work? With supreme satisfaction. Have him express the same pleasure with what he does that one might have from a good dinner, or a cigarette, or sex, or any immensely satisfying activity. Not snooty, just content. "Man, did you see his eyes bug out? Ooh, that was great, we have to kill here again sometime." Attitude-wise, just smirk, grin, scowl, use a lot of jaw movements (other than speech) to express emotion; you'll be surprised how well that communicates a predator.

4. The future's so bright, I've got to wear shades. What are his long-term goals? This is often a challenge for Evil characters, because so many of them tend to be written either with a focus on being Evil, in the present tense, or on a single objective (e.g. become immortal, raise the dead, show the fools, etc.) that can be accomplished fairly easily at mid-levels. You've done an excellent job at creating a genocidal Al Bundy. But who is he going forward?

I think the hound metaphor works well for him, but with a modification - he allows society to believe that it holds the leash. And as long as it thinks it does, and as long as he plays the role of the barely-restrained domesticated monster, he gets steaks and a nice little house. Don't be afraid to remind people that this is still a monster they're dealing with. Take your meat raw, be rough with civilians, leer menacingly at small children - it makes society feel nervous around you, but also glad to know "Hey, at least he's on our side." Which plays into your illusion quite nicely.

Because at the end of the day, they don't hold the leash. You do. And you know it.

[Sam K]

Red, I hereby crown you god-emperor of playable evil. You, sir, is as good of a guide at high functional evil as house Lannister in Game of Thrones (my main source of inspiration for evil-but-playable characters)!

[Tanuki Tales]

Interesting. Okay, so let's figure out how this character would think. Let's run through the usual questions.

2. Gee, Brain, what do you want to do tonight? What are his immediate goals? Fortunately, as nuanced as a character like this may play, his goals can be remarkably simple - scare people, kill people, get paid to do it, not necessarily in that order. You've pointed out that he has figured a way to ply his trade with social approval; most likely, his short-term goals include precisely that.

Well, as I mentioned earlier, this is for the Skull and Shackles adventure path, where the players start off shanghaied and press ganged against their will in the service of a group of high level pirates. I had planned that he ended up in this situation originally because he had been used as the muscle for a port city's criminal underground, but they tried to pin something on him to get themselves out of hot water after a change in the city's government. So, rather than stick around, he got out of there. So as for immediate goals, I'd probably put them to the tune of (but not in any specific order):

Survive.
Find new stomping grounds.
Find a new employer.



3. I'll have mine so rare it screams. How does he do his work? With supreme satisfaction. Have him express the same pleasure with what he does that one might have from a good dinner, or a cigarette, or sex, or any immensely satisfying activity. Not snooty, just content. "Man, did you see his eyes bug out? Ooh, that was great, we have to kill here again sometime." Attitude-wise, just smirk, grin, scowl, use a lot of jaw movements (other than speech) to express emotion; you'll be surprised how well that communicates a predator.

Any suggestions on actors or animated figures to watch some videos on and study?


4. The future's so bright, I've got to wear shades. What are his long-term goals? This is often a challenge for Evil characters, because so many of them tend to be written either with a focus on being Evil, in the present tense, or on a single objective (e.g. become immortal, raise the dead, show the fools, etc.) that can be accomplished fairly easily at mid-levels. You've done an excellent job at creating a genocidal Al Bundy. But who is he going forward?

Well, long term goals so far, in my mind are:

Get revenge on those who wronged him.
Kill his parents and his siblings (or any other bugbear if found wanting for the former two groups)
Live to a ripe old age in comfort

I don't really get the Al Bundy reference here though.

[Segev]

Much of what I'd say has already been said, but I thought I'd throw another fictional example of the kind of "supremely controlled beast" that you might want to examine: Darkseid, from DC comics and DCAU (particularly Superman), is constantly boiling with a psychopathic, homicidal rage. But he keeps it very tightly controlled, letting it out in quick and efficient bursts that LOOK controlled, but are the dark pleasures in which he revels, if only for the moment he permits himself. He is terrifying because he doesn't NEED an excuse to hurt or kill you...he needs a reason not to. And yet, he doesn't until he's sure he lacks that reason, because discipline is important.

The only thing he enjoys more than breaking somebody physically is breaking them spiritually. The death of spirit is just that much sweeter than the death of the body. When the spirit breaks, it can be broken again and again while the body thanks you for it.

[Phelix-Mu]

Visceral Pleasure in Fighting: Zaraki Kenpachi from BLEACH.

Restrained Killer with a Purpose: Roberta from Black Lagoon. (This is particularly good if you want to emphasize the Mask aspect; Roberta has a fantastic Mask.)

Manipulator turned Savage: The Master from Doctor Who, after being reborn in The End of Time. (His obsession with his endless hunger was really evocative and visceral.)

Dog on a Leash: Sabaku no Gaara from Naruto. (Early on, before the big fight with Naruto, where the power of Naruto's words reaches Gaara.)

[Red Fel]

Any suggestions on actors or animated figures to watch some videos on and study?

Phelix and Segev mention some excellent choices. I'll add an unexpected one: Hellboy. Movie version works fine, if that's easier for you. Watch the satisfaction he gets from wrecking stuff. He doesn't have to be all foamy-at-the-mouth bloodthirsty about it; it's just a certain satisfied expression of a job well-wrecked. He wields brutality with casual ease; not like Zaraki's rabid frenzy or the cold dispassion of a killer. To him, smashing faces is just something you do, like watching TV, or breathing, or eating an entire cow's worth of steak. It's neither a profession nor a passion, it's simply a natural thing.

Skip out on his "nobody understands me and I'm so alone" emo trip, though.


I don't really get the Al Bundy reference here though.

That was a bit of a joke on my part. You mentioned a character who sees fear-hunting as more about a beer or a steak dinner than fancy wines and snobbery. I think about a guy cracking open a beer on the couch, a contended smile on his face, while the room around him is covered with gore. Maybe he takes a half-smashed skull resting next to him and carries on a snarky conversation. Genocidal Al Bundy. (He's the father from Married... with Children, in case the reference was missed and I'm dating myself.)

I have a bit of a twisted sense of humor, I suppose.

[Phelix-Mu]

@Red Fel:
No, I liked the reference. Think of it as "genocidal everyman," as Bundy was cast as a typical middle-class man with a family (sometimes it even seemed like he had 2.5 children, lol). I like this, because it gives a sense for how context-based evil often is; raised in a poisonous atmosphere by a madman, the character in question has only ever known black. Murder, violence, and bloodlust are normal, and while the character may not be blind to their evil, neither do they necessarily see themselves as an outlier. If the world that someone lives in is, to one's eyes, dyed in shades of black, then when they look inside and see black, that seems to fit right in with their perception of the world's darkness.

This is all nice because we avoid the kind of self-conscious silliness like Red Fel brings up from Hellboy. That kind of sappiness detracts from the monster, and injects a sense of self-pity that seems uncharacteristic of someone predatory in nature.

EDIT: I am going to hold off for a couple posts on a deeper exploration of the contextual nature of evil, lol. I always get super sucked into these threads, so I hope I don't derail stuff.

[Red Fel]

Phelix, you get me, and that's awesome.

As an aside, how could I describe the mad dog on a leash and not suggest Alucard? In particular, the version depicted in the affectionate parody "Hellsing Ultimate Abridged." Go watch it now. This is a character completely comfortable with casual slaughter of the most stomach-turning kind.

[daremetoidareyo]

I view the alignment axes a little differently than most.

Good - neutral - evil:

Interpersonally, a good person tries to mitigate harm and suffering on all time scales:i.e. Don't kill unless you need to remove a threat; try for the best, most accommodating result for all parties. Paladins and radical anarchists can both be amazingly good.

A Neutral person will trade on what mitigates the most "harm" to get a faster or more personally relevant result. Sometimes, more harm is necessary for one party to endure than others.

Dumb Evil: what benefits me most right now, is what I'm going to do.
Smart Evil: Understands empathy, sympathy, and reactions: uses these interpersonal qualities to extract the maximum benefit for themselves with little regard for the cost that those people endure.


Law Neutral Chaos - This axis is about how creatures believe all other creatures should act on a social level.

Law: On the social level, lawful followers believe that a system can be derived that supersedes the "natural order of the world." Laws bring justice, a unity of goals, and a solid structure to build one's life and expectations upon. From the police officer who marandizes the deadbeat to the defense attorney who defends clearly defined civil rights, law lifts the sentience of beings above the whims of an uncertain future. It is the lawful aligned scientists who believe that all animals can be classified into concrete categories, and that all existence can be explained by observing and recording existence and putting the results into bins: thus sorting out the chaos.

Neutral: These beings make no decision about how they expect others to act. The classification of how the universe works can have huge gray areas and they are fine with that. Whether openminded or closed, they don't have a prescribed way to look at all the variables in the world. Animals, wayfarers, diplomats and the nonpolitical can all be neutral. A neutral person is likely to see the injustice from poorly crafted laws as well as seeing the need for some sort of regulation to make things run smoothly for all. A neutral person will defy an unjust contract.

Chaos: These beings hold that there can be no true classification for how the universe works, and they believe all regulatory structures are a corruption of the true rights of an individual. These creatures tend to be solipsistic, but they also carve out space for all other sentient creatures to be solipsistic as well. These creatures view the flash-fossilized word cages of laws as a simple means of behavioral control, and thus laws only have legitimacy through the force of the wielders. These people will run a redlight if there is no one else around. These people will turn binary decisions "Are you boy or girl, gay or straight, good or evil?" into a spectrum or and unidentifiable palette of options:answering those questions with "I'm 'mostly a man', who has a purple wolf sexuality who sees evil in the collective result of people's decisions while believing each of those people is mostly good." A chaotic scientist points at science as having bias, and also explaining that more discoveries simply highlight the increasing complexity of systems show that you cannot make rules to describe anything. A chaotic person can even choose to follow a systems' rules, even unjust ones, for the majority of their life, in the pursuit of power to undermine the thinking in the system.

SO....

If you want to be an evil character, all you have to do is not give a darn about the harm you cause to others, nor do you feel obligated to make any aspect of the world better by your presence. If you are being lawful evil: You believe that there is an order to the universe. You strive to an instrument of that order as you see fit. You are willing to kill, lie, manipulate, enslave, in order to see that order actualized, and you expect others to do the same. You see others that do not reach as deeply into the murky depths of the behavior bucket as unwise, but that just means that they have an exploitable behavior pattern that you can use to your advantage. You are also willing to abide by positive behaviors for the majority of time: it's easier to not kill people in most social situations, sometimes total honesty is an effective tool to get what you want, and "good guys" are the best allies in the world to have.


From looking at alignment this way, you can see how human-centric the entire outerplanes are. The balance of the needs of the group vs. the needs of the individual is inherent to this alignment system. Some creatures don't need a group to survive against the universe, so they don't really have a need for law/chaos thinking on the same levels. Creatures that do not fear death, or feel emotional pain, have a difficult time navigating the good/evil axis. As demi-humans, they can be categorized by their behaviors, but in a true reckoning, they have different inherent systems of navigating existence. An aboleth's behavior may not actually be evil, turning humans to scum may be no different to them than a druid training a wolf using cutting-edge druid knowhow. Their behavior, however, is clearly evil by human standards.

[Tanuki Tales]

Phelix, you get me, and that's awesome.

As an aside, how could I describe the mad dog on a leash and not suggest Alucard? In particular, the version depicted in the affectionate parody "Hellsing Ultimate Abridged." Go watch it now. This is a character completely comfortable with casual slaughter of the most stomach-turning kind.

If you're dated, then I'm dated, because I loved that show growing up. :smalltongue:

I almost mentioned Alucard when talking about role icons for this character, but then I remember, "oh wait, he's actually super damn deeper and ultimately looking to be put out of his misery".

Abridged Alucard though? :smallwink:

[Phelix-Mu]

Phelix, you get me, and that's awesome.

As an aside, how could I describe the mad dog on a leash and not suggest Alucard? In particular, the version depicted in the affectionate parody "Hellsing Ultimate Abridged." Go watch it now. This is a character completely comfortable with casual slaughter of the most stomach-turning kind.

Ohoho. How apt. Yes, as a fan of the manga (which is much more in line with Hellsing Ultimate than the original anime), Alucard is an excellent example.

And, to go even a step further in a rather interesting direction, Alucard is not only an evil pawn on the side of the "good," but he is a fan of humanity because they aren't like him/monsters, but still manage to beat/suppress him on occasion (even if only in small ways). He likes people (and not just as a foodstuff), because "monsters" are boring. He is king of monsters, and generally wrecks them horribly at the behest of his human masters, but he actually admires humans (in their limited, rather delicious selves), particularly those that prove themselves equal to the task of taming him (originally Integral's grandfather, and later he admits to being mildly impressed by certain others).

This suggests an interesting dynamic between the "monster" and the "human," one that transcends the basic and explicit predator-prey dynamic. While the freak, the monster, the person behind the Mask might hold themselves apart from the prey/the others/the normal, there is a strange mystique that binds the cast into these roles in numerous forms of fiction. Some excellent examples of this are the various shows/movies about studying/chasing/catching psychopaths (Criminal Minds, Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, and on and on). The humans are entranced by the monster, and the monster isn't the monster without the people to eat/terrorize/murder.

Then we can get into the shades of gray with those that try to walk the line as monsters-that-aren't. Alucard would call them fakers, but this kind of anti-hero is present throughout fiction; some of Hellboy's softer aspects fall a bit within this vein.

[Tanuki Tales]

As amusing as I find TFS' parody, there's an issue with using Abridgecard as a modelling for behavior. He acts the way he does with the complete and utter confidence that he's the singularly strongest thing in his entire verse. You could transplant this, but its not the kind of character flaw I was going for and it'd be a little ridiculous when a lot of settings run on "Yeah, the Gods are real and a bit smite happy".

Like being an Atheist on the Discworld.

[Red Fel]

As amusing as I find TFS' parody, there's an issue with using Abridgecard as a modelling for behavior. He acts the way he does with the complete and utter confidence that he's the singularly strongest thing in his entire verse. You could transplant this, but its not the kind of character flaw I was going for and it'd be a little ridiculous when a lot of settings run on "Yeah, the Gods are real and a bit smite happy".

Like being an Atheist on the Discworld.

Although I love his confidence, that's not quite the part on which I was focusing. I was focusing on how casually he treated the fact that he is the stuff of nightmares. How he laughs and announces "You brought me a present!" when confronted with things to murder. How he'll banter back and forth while willfully causing massive collateral damage during a fight. How he'll unleash powers unheard of while quipping things like "You've activated my Alu-Card," as if releasing some of the darkest forces conceived were some sort of amusing party game.

That's what I wanted to show you. A character absolutely comfortable with his terrifying power. He doesn't treat it like a burden, he doesn't need to revel in it (although in some ways, Alucard totally does), it's simply there, like your arm. Except in Alucard's case, it's an arm that transforms into a shadowy mass of eyeballs and possibly an evil dog.

I also wanted to show him as an example of the leashed dog. He makes a show of fighting with Integra, but he allows himself to be controlled - or, at least, he lets people believe that he is barely under control. Here is a character who can do what he loves, and be valued for it. And what he loves is absolutely horrific. And as a reward for being the sort of thing bad parents tell their children is living under the bed, he gets a 70-inch plasma TV. With Netflix.

That's the part to focus on. The Netflix.

[Tanuki Tales]

I'll admit that after you mentioned Abridgecard, I totally came up with how he'd react to the Gillman in the party dying:

*starts chomping on the corpse* "What? He was a fish. I know you all have issue about eating *finger quotations* fellow humanoid beings *end finger quotations*, but now I can't enjoy some sushi? Pfft, Vegetarians."

Edit:

Sorry, forgot the rider text that this would be assumed with food being scarce, though bugbears are carnivores.

[atemu1234]

I've become good at making three dimensional characters, enough so that my PCs tend to wait for kobolds to attack first (what can I say, I have a soft spot for the scaly buggers) for fear of killing actually neutral beings.

I like the traditional suave LE politicker, or one of my other favorites was a CE Bard based off of the villain in Psycho-Pass. Often with a backstory that evokes sympathy he really, REALLY does not deserve.

[Tanuki Tales]

I started a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367664-Evil-character-build-advice) discussing this character's potential build, by the by, if anyone's interested in weighing in.