Of killing a Prismatic Dragon with Warblades

[CrownlessKing]

What would it take to kill a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon Ascendant with 3 Warblades by beating it over the head with swords until all of its 3500+ hp is gone?
What level would the warblades have to be? Level 80? 85? 100?
What kind of unholy equipment would they need?
How would you pull this off?

[Hazrond]

What would it take to kill a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon Ascendant with 3 Warblades by beating it over the head with swords until all of its 3500+ hp is gone?
What level would the warblades have to be? Level 80? 85? 100?
What kind of unholy equipment would they need?
How would you pull this off?

Get it to hit you then Iron Heart Surge it, by RAW it no longer exists :smallamused:

[CrownlessKing]

Well I kinda meant without antics like that. That's basically the same as the destruction seed.

[Flickerdart]

What would it take to kill a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon Ascendant with 3 Warblades by beating it over the head with swords until all of its 3500+ hp is gone?
What level would the warblades have to be? Level 80? 85? 100?
What kind of unholy equipment would they need?
How would you pull this off?
A Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon is an epic spellcaster. Played to its 64 Intelligence, the Warblades cannot win.

[Divide by Zero]

A Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon is an epic spellcaster. Played to its 64 Intelligence, the Warblades cannot win.

They can pool their money to hire a more powerful spellcaster to deal with it.

[CrownlessKing]

Barring insta killing attacks and epic level spell casting.
What does it take now?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Are these characters Warblade X? Or can they be, say, Warblade X/Wiz Y/JPM Z?

[Flickerdart]

They can pool their money to hire a more powerful spellcaster to deal with it.
Spellcasters who are that epic have no need for money. What do you offer to the man who has everything?

[Zombulian]

Well I kinda meant without antics like that. That's basically the same as the destruction seed.

It really would require shenanigans like IHS for the Warblades to ever have a chance. With 64 int and epic spellcasting, as Flickerdart said, the Warblades cannot win. The dragon could literally have researched a spell "Prismatic Dragon's Horrendous Warblade Kablooie" for a spell that would just prevent every warblade in the world from being born or something.

[Zombulian]

Barring insta killing attacks and epic level spell casting.
What does it take now?

Ah so you're changing the question now to "how do they win initiative and do damage to an object with 3500+ HP". The damage could probably be easily reached by ubercharger builds on all of them, but now they're not fighting a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon, they're fighting a post with a lot of health.

[Divide by Zero]

Even if it's limited to 9th level spells, they still don't really stand a chance unless they buy a huge pile of magic items to beat it with, but any class can do that, their features don't really make a significant contribution to the picture.

[Morph Bark]

Ah so you're changing the question now to "how do they win initiative and do damage to an object with 3500+ HP". The damage could probably be easily reached by ubercharger builds on all of them, but now they're not fighting a Great Wyrm Prismatic Dragon, they're fighting a post with a lot of health.

The dragon had no access to epic spellcasting maybe, but nothing has been said about its non-epic spellcasting. That is still plenty of highlevel slots to fill using metamagic.

[Zombulian]

The dragon had no access to epic spellcasting maybe, but nothing has been said about its non-epic spellcasting. That is still plenty of highlevel slots to fill using metamagic.

Yeah. So it *still* probably wins.

[Extra Anchovies]

Hm, let's see...

"Speed 60 ft., fly 350 ft. (clumsy)"

Yeah, I don't think they have a chance. Even if they have items that allow flight, almost all of those items either emulate the Fly spell for a speed of 60 feet, or are scaled to the wearer's base land speed. Even with clumsy maneuverability, it can just circle above them, spiral upwards if they try to follow, and use its breath weapon every few rounds. Eventually the Warblades will roll enough natural 1s on their saves that they'll die.

Alternately, the dragon almost certainly knows Wish. Game over, man. Game over.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Hm, let's see...

"Speed 60 ft., fly 350 ft. (clumsy)"

Yeah, I don't think they have a chance. Even if they have items that allow flight, almost all of those items either emulate the Fly spell for a speed of 60 feet, or are scaled to the wearer's base land speed. Even with clumsy maneuverability, it can just circle above them, spiral upwards if they try to follow, and use its breath weapon every few rounds. Eventually the Warblades will roll enough natural 1s on their saves that they'll die.

Alternately, the dragon almost certainly knows Wish. Game over, man. Game over.

There are feats that prevent natural 1s from being auto-failures. And if we're talking about Warblades of X level, designed to for this one specific fight, it seems reasonable that they'd have those feats. Also magic items to avoid or mitigate elemental damage.

[Chronos]

Only for Fort saves. To not auto-fail Ref or Will, you need to be a knight. And even if they make every single save, they'll still take half damage.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

True, though for characters of ECL 80, which is the lowest number suggested in the OP, getting elemental resistances, dimensional anchor and other effects to completely negate the breath weapon should be more-or-less trivial. The damage effects don't scale at all, if I remember correctly. The dragon's spellcasting can negate or suppress magic items, of course, but getting around the spellcasting is the real issue. Time stop and wish present the real obstacles here, even with Epic Spellcasting explicitly disallowed.

[Giddonihah]

Putting all their effort into setting up and Spamming Feral Death Blow, I think they could succeed. If that counts as an insta kill, then creating platforms/grounding the dragon then punching it with Mountain Tombstone Strikes till it dies. Everything else is just tactics to allow them to survive and continue attempting one of these two attacks. Minimum level is the level needed to survive for the avg rounds needed to kill with these tactics.

If for some reason two of the five 9th level manuevers Warblades get access to is banned. Then I guess we have to White Raven Tactics cheese. If thats banned, umm ask to have Epic progression of the Warblade Class, cause raising Warblade level isnt that useful without one.

[gooddragon1]

If I had to run a Prismatic Dragon against non-casters I would not play it to it's 64 intelligence in spell choices. I would pick a lot of evocations, perhaps a few heals, and maybe a few dangerous but not outright lose spells. I'd blow this off as the dragon being very arrogant beyond belief. That said, epic level is bonkers so I'm not sure.

[Elkad]

If there is a way to get Natural Armor to Touch, they'll never hit it.

[Snowbluff]

If there is a way to get Natural Armor to Touch, they'll never hit it.

THere is. Shimmering Scales?

[Divide by Zero]

If I had to run a Prismatic Dragon against non-casters I would not play it to it's 64 intelligence in spell choices. I would pick a lot of evocations, perhaps a few heals, and maybe a few dangerous but not outright lose spells. I'd blow this off as the dragon being very arrogant beyond belief. That said, epic level is bonkers so I'm not sure.
But we don't want to go easy on them, we want to see if they can beat it. And if you have to nerf its Int to 9 to do that, then it isn't a fair representation of the fight.

THere is. Shimmering Scales?

Scintillating Scales (Spell Compendium).

[gooddragon1]

But we don't want to go easy on them, we want to see if they can beat it. And if you have to nerf its Int to 9 to do that, then it isn't a fair representation of the fight.


Scintillating Scales (Spell Compendium).

The problem is that even if they were level 1 billion each the nature of spells makes it possible for them to fail a save and die while the dragon will always go first (celerity) and know what they're bringing. Basically, to defeat that dragon you'd probably have to turn them into casters... or use a candle of invocation in a particular way eventually involving a form manipulation...

[Suichimo]

There are feats that prevent natural 1s from being auto-failures. And if we're talking about Warblades of X level, designed to for this one specific fight, it seems reasonable that they'd have those feats. Also magic items to avoid or mitigate elemental damage.

We're talking epic level Warblades. Why would they not have Moment of Perfect Mind/Action Before Thought/Mind Over Body constantly prepared?

How often can these things use their breath weapon?

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Every 1d4 rounds, if not faster through their own feats.

[Suichimo]

Well then, as long as the Dragon isn't using feats on speeding up its breath weapon, I assume these guys have better uses for them, the Warblades should be able to keep their save replacers ready to go between breaths. Warblades don't make saves, they make Concentration checks.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

Fair dos. As I've said, the problem is entirely getting around the spellcasting.

[Suichimo]

Oh yeah, they are toast against the spellcasting. As is pretty much anything other than stronger enemy spellcasters.

[Divide by Zero]

The problem is that even if they were level 1 billion each the nature of spells makes it possible for them to fail a save and die while the dragon will always go first (celerity) and know what they're bringing. Basically, to defeat that dragon you'd probably have to turn them into casters... or use a candle of invocation in a particular way eventually involving a form manipulation...

That's the point. There's no way for the warblades to come out on top without nerfing the encounter to the ground in some way.

[CrownlessKing]

I see the disparity is too big here.
Give the Warblades 20-30 Wizard Levels and assume they have 35+ intelligence.
They have to kill it. Not just make it motionless.
Using only SRD Epic spells from the Epic level handbook. For both sides.