Weasel flanking

[Spindrift]

Not sure if anyone asked this already...

If someone's flanking an enemy with a dire weasel companion and that dire weasel uses it's attach ability, is it no longer flanking?
My guess is it isn't, if the weasel is incapable of attacking because it's attached, I don't think it can flank.
But attach is kind of a weird ability, so I wasn't sure...

[Extra Anchovies]

Not sure if anyone asked this already...

If someone's flanking an enemy with a dire weasel companion and that dire weasel uses it's attach ability, is it no longer flanking?
My guess is it isn't, if the weasel is incapable of attacking because it's attached, I don't think it can flank.
But attach is kind of a weird ability, so I wasn't sure...

I think the weasel's loss of Dexterity bonus prevents it from flanking, much in the same way a flat-footed, grappling, and/or immobilized character can't provide a flanking bonus.

[Flickerdart]

I think the weasel's loss of Dexterity bonus prevents it from flanking, much in the same way a flat-footed, grappling, and/or immobilized character can't provide a flanking bonus.
Losing Dexterity to AC isn't synonymous with any of those. RAW, the weasel can still flank.

However, two things imply that the weasel cannot flank due to not being able to threaten:
1) The weasel's bite attack is occupied (because it's biting a target) and it has no Improved Unarmed Strike, so it can be argued that the weasel no longer threatens a space.
2) The text says that an attached weasel can be "grappled itself" which implies that the weasel is grappling. A grappling character does not threaten squares.

Again, it's never explicitly stated that either one of these things happens.

[Spindrift]

So if one were to assume that the weasel technically isn't grappling, but it's bite is occupied, it'd be able to flank with a secondary natural weapon if it got one from a magic item/template/prestige class somehow?

[Flickerdart]

So if one were to assume that the weasel technically isn't grappling, but it's bite is occupied, it'd be able to flank with a secondary natural weapon if it got one from a magic item/template/prestige class somehow?
I would say yes.

Quite frankly, if you think about it, the weasel shouldn't need to threaten to provide flanking because it's doing something even more threatening - biting its enemy in the face. Flanking is supposed to represent a creature needing to divide its focus between two opponents on opposite sides, and thus not being able to protect itself from either as effectively, but if you had a 700 pound weasel trying to suck out your blood, you'd be pretty damn distracted from whoever's on the other side of you. So really, the grappling interpretation makes the most sense, with the distraction being modelled by loss of Dex to AC.

[Psyren]

In Pathfinder they just get the grab ability with their bite; that's probably a more elegant way of representing this.

[Spindrift]

Now I'm picturing an anthropomorphic dire weasel monk attaching/grappling/pinning and draining someone dry while they can't do anything, though i can't remember if anthropomorphic animals get special attacks like the attach ability.
Would be pretty cool , not for the guy who gets the deathhicky though.

[Flickerdart]

Now I'm picturing an anthropomorphic dire weasel monk attaching/grappling/pinning and draining someone dry while they can't do anything, though i can't remember if anthropomorphic animals get special attacks like the attach ability.
Would be pretty cool , not for the guy who gets the deathhicky though.
Just be a Monstrous Vampire Dire Weasel, so you can drain while you drain.

[Spindrift]

Or a multiheaded weasel could really pile on the drain.
Thanks for all the quick responses, guys :smallsmile:

[Flickerdart]

Or a multiheaded weasel could really pile on the drain.
Thanks for all the quick responses, guys :smallsmile:
Oh man, I hadn't even thought of that. Don't forget to add on the Titanic template so you have more room for heads (sadly, it doesn't multiply the CON damage, only HP damaging attacks).

[Spindrift]

Don't remember if it was the basterds and bloodlines book that had the lernean template...
Multiheaded weasel that grows new heads as you chop them off would be a cruel surprise.

[Flickerdart]

Don't remember if it was the basterds and bloodlines book that had the lernean template...
Multiheaded weasel that grows new heads as you chop them off would be a cruel surprise.
Savage Species contains both Multi-Headed and Lernean (as a sub-section of Multi-Headed).

[Spindrift]

Oh, good, takes less bookdelving then, and slap on winged creature ofc, if it's gonna be somewhere people could just avoid it by flying.