IronChef Competition turning 3e PRC's into sub-classes for 5e?

[CyberThread]

What do you folks think, a sort of homebrew competition among folks here, you can chose any PRC that is in 3.5/0 and design it around a 5e already placed skeleton system of when the base class gets the sub-class benefits.

I guess one of the things that would have to make it interesting is not just a literal rule translation that is easy to read,and keeps the abilities of the PRC complete, while also considering the classes power level , so no instant god status by giving wizards seven fold or the cheesiness of planar shepherds for druids.



Would anyone be interested in such a setup ? I imagine we could run the competition about 5 or 6 times , depending on how many folks want to compete before we run out of material.

[HorridElemental]

I would live to do this... I'm just not sure which I would choose. Probably prestige bard or paladin and give it to the fighter or rogue :p.

Actually, necrocarnate or another MoI PRC could be fun.

[mgrinshpon]

Oh my yes. Isn't this more of a Zinc Saucier competition, though? Either way, I'm sure dozens of people would love to do this.

[HorridElemental]

I've never been part of any of these competitions. I think I have what I want to use though, I'll be bringing a Psionic Prestige Class made for the Wilder and giving it to the Fighter... So far I've changed some stuff but it is a very chaotic martial archetype.

:smallcool:

Martial Archetype: Anarchic Initiate

[Yagyujubei]

considering im already basically doing this because i love homebrew I'd be down, either to continue with swashbuckler...or maybe....OH SNAP SWIFTBLADE i'll do that.

I don't really know where to put it....it could either be a fighter sub like EK or...maybe a melee sub for wizard....or even a special pact/boon for Locks...I'll have to look at how I want it to be built.

[CyberThread]

Alright, ill look into criteria and our own name, and get something whipped up by next weekend

[Gnomes2169]

Hmmmm, yes, yes I think I might just be interested in this... I think I'll be making the Kensei, and that it would work best under either fighter or paladin (fighter because it's a fighter-y style thing, and paladin because there is a pretty heavy-handed psuedo-spiritual aspect to the PrC.)

... Eh, let's just give the Fighter all of the love this time around. :)

[HorridElemental]

Oh my yes. Isn't this more of a Zinc Saucier competition, though? Either way, I'm sure dozens of people would love to do this.

Zinc Saucier comes with double prize money right?

Wasn't it Bender that set that rule?

[Angelalex242]

If I made anything into a subclass, I'd make Book of Exalted Deeds 'Fist of Raziel' into a Paladin subclass. Naturally, it'd supercharge smiting.

[T.G. Oskar]

Hmmmm, yes, yes I think I might just be interested in this... I think I'll be making the Kensei, and that it would work best under either fighter or paladin (fighter because it's a fighter-y style thing, and paladin because there is a pretty heavy-handed psuedo-spiritual aspect to the PrC.)

... Eh, let's just give the Fighter all of the love this time around. :)

Kensai is definitely a dead-on subclass for the Fighter. It's class features would involve making a specific weapon magical, and would combine the Weapon Focus line with the Magic Weapon line. The 3rd level class feature would be pretty simple, but the latter level features would include the actual boost, probable temporary weapon enhancements (a la Soulknife) and so forth.


If I made anything into a subclass, I'd make Book of Exalted Deeds 'Fist of Raziel' into a Paladin subclass. Naturally, it'd supercharge smiting.

Paladin subclasses are mostly Oaths, so this would have to fit the Oath chassis (10 spells, 2-3 uses of Channel Divinity, and one or two class features based on the Channel Divinity option). Most likely you could use your Channel Divinity to execute a smite without casting a spell or something?

Just to bust down the most likely ideas:
Barbarian: Frenzied Berserker (Path of the Berserker), Occult Slayer (Path of the Occult Slayer), Ravager (Path of the Ravager). The first one is already integrated; the second would grant the Barbarian features to resist magic (maybe Spell Resistance, aka "advantage on all spell-related saving throws", or impose disadvantage on Concentration saves when attacking), while the third would be a nasty debuffing/damage path (Cruelest Cut being a rage-based boost to damage similar to Sneak Attack, Frightful Visage being a sort-of Frightful Presence activated on a Rage, and so forth).
Bard: Warchanter (College of War), Sublime Chord (College of Magic), Seeker of the Song (College of the Primal Song). The first one already exists, the second would be a more magic-inclined College (as if the Bard didn't need it) while the third would "weaponize" Bardic Performances and probably provide AoE Inspiration.
Cleric: Domains deal with most of these, so it'll be hard to translate these.
Druid: Nature's Warrior (Circle of the Beast), Master of Many Shapes/Shapeshifter (Circle of Shapeshifting). Druids would be notoriously hard to make Circles from. Nature's Warrior already overlaps with Circle of the Moon (which definitely took the best name), but the Circle of the Beast would be fitting for those Druids who want to merely tap into Wild Shape instead of fully transforming. Circle of Shapeshifting, on the other hand, would further improve transformation by allowing further forms, but it would make the Druid even MORE powerful (and that's bad).
Fighter: Kensai, Stalwart Defender (or just Defender), Warmaster (if curious; it's a PrC from Sword & Fist, IIRC). Kensai would be Gnomes' proposal; Stalwart Defender would provide the Fighter with a Defensive Stance very much like the Barbarian's Rage, with increased defensive potential; Warmaster would be the "Warlord" build more than the Battlemaster, except using Auras rather than Maneuvers (more like the Marshal class in that regard).
Monk: Tattooed Monk (Way of the Tattooed Monk), Ninja Spy (Way of Shadows), Shintao Monk (Way of Shintao), Henshin Mystic (Way of Henshin). The Ninja Spy, to an extent, was already added as a Monk subclass, so you'll only have the rest to work with. Way of the Tattooed Monk already overlaps with Way of the Elements, but this one would provide the Monk with self-buffs rather than special attacks; Way of Shintao would work as a sort of...Paladin overlap build, since it'd have a more specific "Smite" ability specific to Tainted Creatures, and then upgrade to stuff like Tomb of Jade or Kukan-Do which seals them (also a permanent Protection from Good & Evil effect but only against Tainted Creatures, which would be Undead, Fiends and Aberrations). Way of Henshin also overlaps with Way of the Elements, and most likely WAS intended to be such. It could be a way to allow the Monk to become a Sentai, maybe? "Spend 1 ki, get a special full-body cloth that protects you as armor!" "Spend 3 ki, summon a massive construct to defeat kaiju the Tarrasque!"
Paladin: Fist of Raziel (Oath of Smiting), Defender of Sealtiel (Oath of Protection), Hospitaler (Oath of Hospitality), Shining Blade of Heironeous (Oath of the Shining Blade), Ruby Knight Vindicator (Oath of Inquisition), Cavalier (Oath of Cavalry). All of them would grant spells related to the Oath (such as Oath of Smiting freely granting the Smite/Strike spells, Oath of Protection granting Warding Bond [I loathe how this spell was removed from the Paladin's list when it should have been a must-have!!!!!!!], Hospitaler adds more healing spells, and so on), and their Channel Divinity options would closely mimic that of the class (Oath of Smiting grants a 1/long rest free Smite and improvements to Divine Smite; Oath of Protection would grant a Protective Aura Channel Divinity effect, and so on). Probably a hard way to cross, but much easier than the Cleric for sure.
Ranger: Horizon Walker, Beastmaster, Consecrated Harrier, Tempest, Arcane Archer, Deepwood Stalker. The Ranger has been discussed so briefly, and they seem to be the class that needs the most help (even if they have a decent skill list and choice of skills). Horizon Walker would focus on preparing the Ranger for planar travel, and maybe adopt some traits of the Planar Ranger substitution levels; Beastmaster already exists as the Animal Companion option, while Consecrated Harrier would provide the Ranger with an expanded spell list and the ability to track evil creatures. Tempest would be a specialization that helps with Two-Weapon fighting, and probably Drizzt's specialization; Arcane Archer is a feat (Spellslinger), but it could harken to the time where the Ranger had Magic User spells. Deepwood Stalker would be a Ranger/Rogue merging option.
Rogue: Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Thief-Acrobat, Duelist, Trapsmith... The Rogue has quite a bunch of Archetypes, actually. The first two are already in; Thief-Acrobat is and isn't part of the Thief Archetype, but it can exist on its own (it was, after all, a class of its own on the 1e's Unearthed Arcana). Duelist would overlap with Fighter, but it would make the Rogue a better warrior (something that it'd find inviting). Trapsmith would make it the ultimate trap-setter and trap-disabler. I'd also add Virtuoso to give it some Bard tricks, remembering 2e's penchant for making the Rogue class group based on Thieves and Bards.
Sorcerer: Alienist (Alien Origin), Acolyte of the Skin (Fiendish Origin), Dragon Disciple (Draconic Origin), Wild Soul (Fey Origin). Sorcerers are all about their origins, so it'll be mostly easy to work with them: anything that suggests magical origin will be good to go. Dragon Disciples are already covered through the Draconic origin; thus, the most likely options would be Alienist (for Aberrations and Far Realm denizens, akin to the Warlock's Great Old One pact), the Acolyte of the Skin (for Fiends) and the Wild Soul (for Fey). Nothing too shabby. An interesting one would be the Recaster, but that would probably be an Eberron-exclusive one. Also, Spellfire Channeler and Silver Pyromancer (both of divine origin; a Spellfire origin Sorcerer is one of Mystra's blessed, while a Silver Pyromancer would be imbued with the magic of the Couatl inside the Silver Flame and thus have access to divine fire magic).
Warlock: Enlightened Soul (the Shiradi path). Warlock are based on their choice of patrons, and the only one that's missing so far is the Celestial one. The Shiradi are meant to be the rulers of the Eladrin, and if they manage to appear (they're product identity after all; Pathfinder had to improvise with Azatas), they'd be the most likely. A Draconic pact (Dragonpact/the Great Dragon pact) would be another natural, though I doubt a certain group would agree to it (*coughcoughShadowrunnerscoughcough* ...Damn hay fever...)
Wizard: They're dealing with Schools of Magic, so they'll be notoriously hard to work with. Chances are the Incantatrix will make some sort of appearance, as well as the Archmage. Aaaaand maybe the Malconvoker.

There's a good list right there, with the most likely options for each.

[PiggDaddy]

This is an incredible exhilarating and fantastically excellent idea.

[Dragonus45]

I think the idea is awesome.

[HorridElemental]

With some of these PrCs I don't see them translating over to the same classes.

Fist of Raziel sounds like a great Fighter Martial Archetype for 5e, though it could be adapted to the Paladin... I don't think we should allow 3.5's limited choice into PrCs limit what subclasses we make them into for 5e.

[DCraw]

Are we allowed to provide multiple entries? I've already thrown together a basic skeleton for Barbarian/Bear Warrior and Wizard/Malconvoker.

[HorridElemental]

Are we allowed to provide multiple entries? I've already thrown together a basic skeleton for Barbarian/Bear Warrior and Wizard/Malconvoker.

Good question, I kinda assumed I would make three or so and just submit one but... Yeah I didnt think to ask haha.

[Jenckes]

I would definitely do this. I don't think running out of material will be an issue, there's always pathfinder archetypes.

[obryn]

I am not participating, but I would like to note that nothing in 5e's structure prevents prestige classes from working like they did in 3.x.

[HorridElemental]

I am not participating, but I would like to note that nothing in 5e's structure prevents prestige classes from working like they did in 3.x.

Yup, though I personally wouldn't want to see that.

[Gnomes2169]

@T.G.Oskar: well yes, yes it would be dead on for a fighter... And way to give away all the other things. Fortunately, the competition isn't supposed to be a 100% conversion, and I could add more thematic things to a Kensai (aka Saint of Swords) if I wanted to, but still... *Joke* Spoiler alert man. */Joke* :P


I am not participating, but I would like to note that nothing in 5e's structure prevents prestige classes from working like they did in 3.x.

I would really, really rather not see this, however... Especially because the 3.P system had a tendency to feat tax everything, and I feel like it would take away from some class/ subclass' unique flavors. And I absolutely hate the PrC's that basically say "Well, you can take this class for its cool things but still progress in your other class' cool things uninterrupted while you do so." (See: Every caster PrC ever.) Those ones just make your base class sort of pointless, since they give you the base class and then some...

[rlc]

wouldn't it make more sense to make them more like epic destinies than subclasses or, even worse, completely separate classes?

[HorridElemental]

wouldn't it make more sense to make them more like epic destinies than subclasses or, even worse, completely separate classes?

I see subclasses or archetypes like this already. Except not as awesome as what paragon paths and epic destinies could be.

[rlc]

I see subclasses or archetypes like this already. Except not as awesome as what paragon paths and epic destinies could be.

they kind of are, yeah, but what i meant was having it "alongside" a subclass, rather than "instead" of it.
like say your abjuration wizard picks up the red wizard prestige class at level 11. instead of switching from abjuration to red with an abjuration focus (which sounds kind of complicated, but that's what it was) and being abjuration 10/red 1 or whatever, you're just an abjuration wizard 11 with the red wizard benefits (which would basically be like unique feats or a super powerful background that's earned instead of started with).

[Chadamantium]

I'm pretty excited about these. I never got to do this in the 3.5 threads,mostly cause I all these other great optimizes were being posted and I was still grasping the system and learning to optimize. Here I feel that it being a new system its a bit more even playing field. So I plan to be in when you get started.

[PracticalM]

I was trying to add a Druid Circle for the Spirit Shaman but then the player decided to do a radical shift to a Warlock so it wasn't too urgent. I can try to finish that one up.

[Jenckes]

Let's get a timeline and first competition. How about we just start at the top and work our way down?

Barbarian is first alphabetically so let's get a good list of PrC's that would make a good path for the Barbarian? From there we can see what people want done first?

Forest Master (Faiths and Pantheons)
?Fist of the Forest? (Complete Champion)
Forest Reeve (Complete Champion)
Rage Mage (Complete Warrior)
?Reaping Mauler (Complete Warrior)
Hulking Hurler (Complete Warrior)
Horde Breaker (Silver Marches)
Drunken Master (Sword and Fist)
?Gladiator? (Sword and Fist)
Ravager (Sword and Fist)
Tribal Protector (Sword and Fist)
Frenzied Berserker (Master of the Wild)

This is by no means a complete list, feel free to add to it.

[CyberThread]

It has been worked on, and opinoins heard. It won't be a free for all, it will have themes.


This editions theme will be Natures Champion

[HorridElemental]

It has been worked on, and opinoins heard. It won't be a free for all, it will have themes.


This editions theme will be Natures Champion

Well wake me up when we get to something fun/interesting.

[CyberThread]

lol....folks like you that make this unfun. Just go hide in your hole.