Possible Warforged Necropolitan? Even Warforged w/Mother Cyst?

[unseenmage]

The spell Greater Humanoid Essence (RoE186) is back again, this time wondering how cheesey it is to use it to turn a Warforged (ECS) into a Necropolitan (LM114) or to use it to use the Cyst line of feat/spells (LM67) on Warforged?

From what I can gather Greater Humanoid Essence makes the target Construct actually become a Humanoid with all that that entails. It loses the Construct type and becomes a living, mind affected Humanoid. One concern I worry about is the duration of Greater Humanoid Essence vs the time it would take to make a Necropolitan though.

[Thurbane]

Would a Warforged gain much benefit from being Necropolitan? The most appealing aspects of the template are the immunities, many of which a living construct already has.

[unseenmage]

I was thinking of the Spellstitching and the Corpsecrafted bonuses. Especially considering the high level of Greater Humanoid Essence being a thing.

[lytokk]

as an undead, wouldn't they get full healing from negative energy spells, such as the inflict line? Since they only get half healing from spells of the healing subschool, and theres no mention of half draining from spells such as inflict or harm, its a way to get full healing, albeit from negative energy.

*edit I really don't know much about necropolitans, but I figure they're just undead, with standard undead traits

[toapat]

a cleric could just DMM: Persist it to then make a Dragonborn Warforged Necropolitain, because you should always have convoluted character origins

[torrasque666]

I became a lot less of a fan of Dragonborn after reading up on it. If you happen to stray from the path of good and commit an evil act without atoning(so if you aren't Good, you're eventually pushed there) you tarnish. If you don't atone, you take 2d6 untyped damage per round per HD. So depending on bad rolls and your HD, you might very well die from committing an evil act. Sounds a bit worse than a Paladin if you ask me.

[Rubik]

The prereqs of the Human Heritage feat can be fulfilled with fluff, so just say you're made with enough biological parts cloned from a human that you qualify. Then your type is Humanoid (Human, Living Construct), and you can qualify for necropolitan. On the upside, you keep all of your Living Construct traits, gain all of the Undead traits, and still count as Humanoid (Human) whenever it benefits you.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

The Hunan Heritage feat is a nice trick, even if it's a little silly. However, I thought that the living construct subtype was contingent on being of the construct type. I could easily be wrong and it is a case of the template not removing it because it makes no mention of the creature's possible subtypes.

Edit: Fixed a couple of typos.

[Rubik]

The Hunan Heritage feat is a nice trick, even if it's a little silly. However, I thought that the living construct subtype was contingent on being of the construct type. I could easily be wrong and it is a case of the template not removing it because it makes no mention of the creature's possible subtypes.

Edit: Fixed a couple of typos.Actually, [Living Construct] is separate from the Construct type, so even if you become Undead (or Humanoid [Human], or Dragon, or Elemental, or Ooze), you still keep your subtype.

And ironically, nothing about warforged being [Living Construct]s removes Construct traits, except where the subtype explicitly conflicts, in which case the subtype overrides it. Which means that warforged get a lot more immunities than their entry directly suggests.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

That is what I thought might be the case on the subtype. I was already aware about the type proper giving more immunities due to how the subtype was worded, but for some reason I thought they included a line about it only applying to constructs proper. Obviously, my memory was in error there. Chalk that up as yet another dysfunction in the system.

[Mithril Leaf]

I became a lot less of a fan of Dragonborn after reading up on it. If you happen to stray from the path of good and commit an evil act without atoning(so if you aren't Good, you're eventually pushed there) you tarnish. If you don't atone, you take 2d6 untyped damage per round per HD. So depending on bad rolls and your HD, you might very well die from committing an evil act. Sounds a bit worse than a Paladin if you ask me.

On the other hand, on a Warforged Paladin, it rocks face.

Oh yeah, and in the sidebar of rebirth it allows any race to become a Dragonborn, not just fleshy ones.

[Chronos]

What other immunities would warforged get from being constructs?

[Rubik]

What other immunities would warforged get from being constructs?There's not much, but what's there is still useful.

Construct Type
A construct is an animated object or artificially constructed creature.

Features
A construct has the following features.

--10-sided Hit Dice.
--Base attack bonus equal to ¾ total Hit Dice (as cleric).
--No good saving throws.
--Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die, with quadruple skill points for the first Hit Die, if the construct has an Intelligence score. However, most constructs are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.

Traits
A construct possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
--No Constitution score.
--Low-light vision.
--Darkvision out to 60 feet.
--Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
--Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
--Cannot heal damage on their own, but often can be repaired by exposing them to a certain kind of effect (see the creature’s description for details) or through the use of the Craft Construct feat. A construct with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
--Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
--Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
--Not at risk of death from massive damage. Immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or less.
--Since it was never alive, a construct cannot be raised or resurrected.
--Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the table. [20 bonus hit points as a Medium Construct; more, if its size increases]
--Proficient with its natural weapons only, unless generally humanoid in form, in which case proficient with any weapon mentioned in its entry.
--Proficient with no armor.
--Constructs do not eat, sleep, or breathe.

[Thurbane]

Do Warforged gain bonus HP based on size for being a construct? I've never seen this reflected in their stat blocks.

[Rubik]

Do Warforged gain bonus HP based on size for being a construct? I've never seen this reflected in their stat blocks.Character stat blocks are almost never unsullied by frequent (and often quite elementary) errors.

[Mithril Leaf]

Character stat blocks are almost never unsullied by frequent (and often quite elementary) errors.

Oh oh, I love the Anarchic Initiate one!

[SaintRidley]

There's not much, but what's there is still useful.

--Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).

A trait common only to things without Constitution scores. See nonability - that's what makes this a trait for Constructs and Undead broadly: the assumption of a nonability in Constitution. Having a Con score means Living Constructs don't get this. Also, Living Construct traits cover it if you don't believe me. Check your MM3.


-Unlike other constructs, living constructs are subject to critical hits, effects requiring a Fort save, death from massive damage, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects.
So, whatever immunity normal constructs have regarding effects which require Fort saves, Living Constructs don't have it.



--Because its body is a mass of unliving matter, a construct is hard to destroy. It gains bonus hit points based on size, as shown on the table. [20 bonus hit points as a Medium Construct; more, if its size increases]

Exists because of the lack of Con score, not a benefit extended to Living Constructs. Under Living Construct traits:


-Unlike other constructs, a living construct has a Constitution score. A living construct does not gain bonus hit points by size but gains (or loses) bonus hit points through a Constitution bonus (or penalty) as with other living creatures.

[Thurbane]

Exists because of the lack of Con score, not a benefit extended to Living Constructs. Under Living Construct traits:

Thanks for the clarification, that was bothering the heck outta me.

[unseenmage]

A trait common only to things without Constitution scores. See nonability - that's what makes this a trait for Constructs and Undead broadly: the assumption of a nonability in Constitution. Having a Con score means Living Constructs don't get this. Also, Living Construct traits cover it if you don't believe me. Check your MM3.


So, whatever immunity normal constructs have regarding effects which require Fort saves, Living Constructs don't have it.



Exists because of the lack of Con score, not a benefit extended to Living Constructs. Under Living Construct traits:

Hmmm, my question is; does this all give us a RAW basis to say that mindless Constructs affected by Greater Humanoid Essence are still immune to Mind-Affecting because of their nonability despite the type change to Humanoid?

IIRC the last time this came up I was asking about Constructs with Int scores so the nonability issue didn't come up.

[SaintRidley]

Under the Intelligence entry for nonability:

Any creature that can think, learn, or remember has at least 1 point of Intelligence.

A creature with no Intelligence score (such as a shredstorm) is mindless, an automoton operating on simple instincts or programmed instructions. It has immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects) and automatically fails Intelligence checks.

Mindless creatures do not gain feats or skills, although they may have bonus feats or racial skill bonuses.

[malonkey1]

I'm curious, what would happen if a mindless creature (such as a Golem) were polymorph any object'd into a creature with a mind? Would it suddenly gain an Int score? Or would it remain mindless?

[SaintRidley]

Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form.

Incidentally, this means you could pretty easily achieve permanent duration by taking any mindless Construct and PAOing it into a Warforged of the appropriate size (Scout for small, regular for Medium, Charger for Large, Titan for Huge) - and they would gain Int, and all but the Titan would be living constructs.

[unseenmage]

Another fun option is using stuff like Necrotic Cyst (LM) and Grim Revenge (BoVD) on Animated Objects, Minor Servitors (SS), Crawling Claws (LEoF), and Awakened Sands (Sa) after they've been hit with Greater Humanoid Essence. Is especially useful for the Awakened Sands and Minor Servitors as they are created with that pesky free will.

[atemu1234]

Do Warforged gain bonus HP based on size for being a construct? I've never seen this reflected in their stat blocks.

I believe part of the Living Construct subtype is having a constitution score. I seem to remember Warforged having them, at any rate.