Battle Sorcerer to Eldritch Knight (or similar)?

[atemu1234]

I was wondering if anyone ever straight-classed a Battle Sorcerer and then took levels of Eldritch Knight in order to make them stronger? Is this a good idea, or am I missing some horrible, horrible downside?

[Fax Celestis]

Battle Sorcerer is pretty bad, honestly, unless you really know what you're doing. However, if you're going that route, you might as well pick up Stalwart Sorcerer from CMage, and head into Knight Phantom instead of Eldritch Knight.

Two levels of Paladin up front could help too, since you'd get CHA to saves and two levels of full BAB, plus the paladin spell list for wand and scroll purposes.

[HunterOfJello]

The horrible downside becomes the fact that Battle Sorcerer gives up things to gain melee capabilities. Eldritch Knight gets those melee capabilities without giving up anything other than 1 level of spellcasting progression.

In general you're better off going pure sorcerer into Eldritch Knight (and later Abjurant Champion). You can gain the martial weapon proficiency without taking a level in Fighter. There are a few ways:

Take the Otherwoldly regional feat from Player's Guide to Faerun.
Take the Militia regional feat from Player's Guide to Faerun.
Play any Outsider type race.
Play any Giant type race.
One level in the Dragonslayer PrC (this will take a while to get in to though).

[Dread_Head]

It's bad because you lose a caster level in Eldritch Knight and you lose a caster level to gain proficiency in all martial weapons (unless using one of the routes mentioned by HunterOfJello.) It is made worse by the fact you are trading a career long drawback (less spells known and /day) for a short lived bonus extra BAB and HP during Battle Sorcerer levels that you don't get during PrC levels.

[gorfnab]

I would recommend looking at the Sorcadin build.
Paladin 2/ Sorceror 4/ Spellsword 1/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8.
Otherwise the Gish Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=jjgj4dlel29gq043ke84midc14&topic=8881) may be of some use.

[DeAnno]

The main reason to Battle Sorcerer is if you desperately need BaB for some reason and absolutely refuse to lose caster levels, so EK is a horrible combination with it. It tends to be good in environments where you have limited ability to dip into base classes and have to (or are encouraged to) "finish" Prestige classes. For example Battle Sorc 7/Abjurant Champion 5 is very simple and quite legit, losing no CLs and only 2 BaB.

[Marlowe]

All Eldritch Knight would give a Battle Sorceror is slightly better BAB and a better Fort save. It would actually hurt your Will Save and Hit points over what you'd have as a straight battle sorceror. And you'd be losing two spell levels for the privilege.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Eldritch Knight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/eldritchKnight.htm) only progresses spells per day, not spells known. A Battle Sorcerer 6/ Eldritch Knight 10 has the spells per day of a Battle Sorcerer 15, but the spells known of a Battle Sorcerer 6:

Spells Per Day
From 2nd level on, when a new eldritch knight level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. This essentially means that she adds the level of eldritch knight to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.

[Thanatosia]

Pretty sure all caster prestige classes work that way, and spells known is part of spell progression that does advance with prestige classes. It's things like Familiars & wizard feats that don't advance.

[Flickerdart]

The reason Battle/Stalwart Sorcerer is terrible if you're going to PrC out is that you're giving up pieces of your Sorcerer casting (which is progressed by PrCs, so you pay that cost forever) in exchange for improvements to Sorcerer class levels, which you will stop taking rather abruptly. Paying the cost without getting the benefits is not a smart move.


Pretty sure all caster prestige classes work that way, and spells known is part of spell progression that does advance with prestige classes. It's things like Familiars & wizard feats that don't advance.
It actually turns out that no, it's not how all prestige classes work. Various PrCs will make reference to advancing caster level, spells known, and spells per day independently of one another.

[Marlowe]

Well. That changes EK from "underwhelming" to "Flat-out bloody awful". I can't help what they were thinking when they designed...

...they designed it thinking only of Wizards, didn't they.:smallsigh:

[jiriku]

I am rather partial to stalwart battle sorcerer in an E6 setting. Just play it straight up to level 6; you'll have excellent hit points, a small number of spells which you can expand with feats, and reasonable base attack. Different racial options like illumian, silverbrow human, or azurin let you play around with some interesting feat and spellcasting options that normally aren't all that optimal in a regular game, and the E6 feats can allow you to eventually buy back all of the lost spells if you really want them.

[Darkweave31]

Echoing the sentiment that battle sorcerer is bad. Too few spells known. A personal favorite sorcerer-based Gish build for me is sorcerer 6/swiftblade 10/whatever 4... Very fun to play. Lots of buffs to haste like miss chance, extra actions, and time stop... Not to mention becoming ex so it works in an amf.

[Flickerdart]

Well. That changes EK from "underwhelming" to "Flat-out bloody awful". I can't help what they were thinking when they designed...

...they designed it thinking only of Wizards, didn't they.:smallsigh:
It could be worse - at least it specifies that you gain an increased Caster Level. Rage Mage, for instance, only mentions the increase in spells per day.

[LordErebus12]

you'd be better off going Abjurant Champion than EK.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Knight Phantom (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) is EK with more prerequisites and a few class features.

Stalwart Battle Sorcerer is pretty good on a Spellhoarding Dragonwrougt Kobold with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (Loredrake optional). You trade your gimped Sorcerer spellcasting for ungimped Wizard casting, and keep the Stalwart Battle Sorcerer chassis.

[Ansem]

It's bad because you lose a caster level in Eldritch Knight and you lose a caster level to gain proficiency in all martial weapons (unless using one of the routes mentioned by HunterOfJello.) It is made worse by the fact you are trading a career long drawback (less spells known and /day) for a short lived bonus extra BAB and HP during Battle Sorcerer levels that you don't get during PrC levels.

Be a Kobold, gain back lost level.

[Fax Celestis]

Knight Phantom (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20050706a&page=4) is EK with more prerequisites and a few class features.

and it doesn't have the janky "screw sorcerers" spell progression text that Eldritch Knight does (and that most everyone ignores anyway).

[TheGeckoKing]

Battle Sorcerer is for the most part unnecessary, but understandable if you're starting at a low level and don't want to go through that awkward period most gish builds go though at the lower levels, while still having access to 9ths at higher levels. In that case, I would STRONGLY recommend a Bloodline Feat (Dragon Magazine Compendium) to make up for the loss in spells known. If you're starting any higher than 6th level though, don't even bother.