Alignment question

[KindOfGoodGuy]

I was looking at the list of cursed items on paizo and noticed the description of the Helm of Opposite Alignment. The description of it is below.

"When placed upon the head, this item's curse immediately takes effect (Will DC 15 negates). On a failed save, the alignment of the wearer is radically altered to an alignment as different as possible from the former alignment—good to evil, chaotic to lawful, neutral to some extreme commitment (LE, LG, CE, or CG). Alteration in alignment is mental as well as moral, and the individual changed by the magic thoroughly enjoys his new outlook. A character who succeeds on his save can continue to wear the helmet without suffering the effect of the curse, but if he takes it off and later puts it on again, another save is required.

Only a wish or a miracle can restore a character's former alignment, and the affected individual does not make any attempt to return to the former alignment. In fact, he views the prospect with horror and avoids it in any way possible. If a character of a class with an alignment requirement is affected, an atonement spell is needed as well if the curse is to be obliterated. When a helm of opposite alignment has functioned once, it loses its magical properties."

My question, is that if the part of not only loving the new alignment but also hating the previous one needed to be mentioned in the description, does that mean that if ones alignment is forcefully changed by some other means, they will probably dislike it and want to return to normal?:smallconfused:

[KillianHawkeye]

I think it has more to do with the fact that under normal circumstances, alignment is based on your actions; it does not dictate them.

The helm, as a cursed item, goes beyond the normal rules for alignment by saying that the newly flipped character does not wish to change back to "normal." Therefore, the character is supposed to alter their behavior so as to maintain their new alignment. This can be a subtle shift in priorities or a radical change in personality, as the player wishes and as appropriate for the character in question.

Just look at similar situations from popular media. Usually the examples will be of a good character turning suddenly evil, but you can probably apply most of them in reverse. Many good characters who are turned bad--usually those with very strong convictions--will have just as strong a belief in evil and will become very flamboyantly villainous where once they were righteous. Milder characters will seem normal at first glance, but prolonged interaction will expose enough unusually mean or hurtful behavior to eventually let the character's friends or associates figure out that something is wrong. Particularly smart and manipulative characters will realize that they need to keep their new outlook a secret, so they pretend to be good while doing whatever evil they can get away with and plot against their own friends and allies (either because they are the only ones who might be able to turn the character back to normal, or because they just want to hurt the people who remind them of their old personality and outlook).

[Red Fel]

My question, is that if the part of not only loving the new alignment but also hating the previous one needed to be mentioned in the description, does that mean that if ones alignment is forcefully changed by some other means, they will probably dislike it and want to return to normal?:smallconfused:

Here's the thing: Forceful changes generally do not happen. Killian does a good job of explaining this. Generally speaking, alignment changes are gradual, subtle things.

The Helm of Opposite Alignment, as well as other "forced" alignment change effects, are an exception to this general rule. They rewrite a person's norms. So think of it this way.

A character starts out with their "normal" alignment. This is the alignment towards which their actions gravitate, and which is the result of their actions. (Circular, I know.) If they shift, it is gradual, and due generally to a change in their actions. In the absence of a motivation to change, a character will probably default to actions in accordance with this alignment. In other words, a CG character is so because he takes actions which value freedom and compassion, and he therefore would not like to take actions which value tyranny and cruelty (hallmarks of LE). He would not want to change.

A forced shift, such as from the Helm of Opposite Alignment, rewrites the default. In the example above, the CG character becomes LE, and values power and ambition. He would not see value in actions which promote anarchy or empathetic weakness. He would not want to change.

If, however, he were subject to another forced shift, such as via the Compel spell (OA, 3.0) then that alignment would become his default. Say you suddenly made him LN; now he would value order and care little for morality, and would not want to change.

That's not to say that the change makes gradual alignment shift impossible; it merely rewrites the baseline until and unless another forced change occurs.

[Andezzar]

Do the rules ever say that such a default exists? A character is of a certain alignment because most of his previous actions up until now have been consistent with that alignment.

You are right, radical non-magic alignment shifts don't often happen, but if they do they are just as binding as gradual ones, which is not at all.

The insistence on enjoying the new alignment on that item and the curse of lycanthropy is very important, because otherwise the character would be free to do whatever he wants immediately after failing the saving throw or being bitten by a werecreature. That way it would just be another case of a character no longer acting in accordance with its alignment and thus changing it progressively. Vampires and liches for example can do that by RAW.

Also don't forget that even villains are the heroes of their own story. While the LG character that puts on the helmet and fails the save will be CE, he probably won't go about thinking or even saying "I'm evil now, let's do some evil and chaotic things", but he would rationalize how atrocity A and breaking of rules B is the right thing to do.

[daremetoidareyo]

Monk 3/Bard whatever + doomspeak: double down on grappling, and turn all your enemies into allies!

I ran a campaign where a succubus was hit with a helm of alignment change and wanted to be a paladin to atone for their past life. She was routinely denied by all divine agencies until found a sect of paladins that worship garl glittergold, the only good god reckless enough to be willing to take on the experiment. This succubus hired good PCs to protect it from the constant attacks on her life from other paladins (detect evil behaves weird in this case), offended gnomish clerics, as well as angry fiends that came after her as she quested to prove her commitment to "good" to take her first PC class level for good old garl.

Her coronation ceremony into the paladinhood was a strange fruit.