Building Conan (Robert E. Howard, not movie)

[Grynning]

So, one thing I always like to do to test a new RPG is try to build a famous fictional character with the rules. When I do a fantasy game, I usually pick Mad Martigan from the movie "Willow", but Mad Martigan is a little to easy for 5E (Fighter with the Criminal background and a few feats), so I'm doing Robert E. Howard's archetypical sword and sorcery ubermensch, Conan of Cimmeria.
For those of you not familiar with the books, Conan is not just a barbarian. He's cunning, a skilled thief, a brilliant tactician, multilingual, charismatic, and basically an all-around Marty Stu kind of character, really. He's not motivated by revenge or honor (like movie adaptations inevitably try to shoehorn in), but simply by a desire to fight, feast, make love, and basically live an enjoyable life. He's the epitome of Chaotic Neutral in his early life, and becomes more Neutral Good as King of Aquilonia.
I'm going to build him within the 5E rules to see how well the game can represent this type of character. It's just a thought exercise, not trying to prove any points or anything, just for funsies, thought I'd share. If there are any other Howard fans out there, I welcome feedback on how to make the character as close to Conan as possible while staying within the rules.

[Grynning]

Stats, Background and Class:

Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.
-Robert E. Howard, The Phoenix on the Sword, 1932.

So, we can't make Conan just have 18 in everything, like I'm sure some people would say is the only way to represent the Howard character. If his stats were rolled, you would prioritize Str, Dex, and Con like a standard barbarian, but try to keep the mental stats as high as possible given that his perception and intellect are also extraordinary.

It's simply not possible to do the character justice with standard point buy, but I'm going to try. I decided not to start him with any feats, and use the +1 to all stats option of being human to make him work within a 27 point buy.

Note: I would need a 30 point buy to make the character have comparable stats using the variant human with the feat. Kinda shows how nice those extra points are sometimes. I really wish I could take Athlete at level 1 though, it really fits him, but I'd have to give up too much and have either an Int penalty or lose the Cha bonus, neither of which sits well with me.

These are at level one, after +1 to all stats from being human:
Str: 16
Conan begins life extraordinarily strong, able to cut through steel bars with a sword and kill men with his bare hands as he does in several stories. This will be maxed with improvements.
Dex: 14 - Conan is fast, and dodges many attacks with ease, but likes to wear medium armor whenever he can, so we will set his Dex to take the most advantage of medium armor.
Con: 14 - Conan is very tough, able to survive blows that would kill ordinary men. This will also be maxed with improvements.
Int: 10 - Conan is very smart but not necessarily well-educated at the start of his life. He is open-minded and learns languages easily (We will represent this with the linguist feat later maybe).
Wis: 12 - Conan is very alert, and has extraordinary senses.
Cha: 13 - Conan inevitably becomes a leader in any group he joins, and women cannot resist his charms (of course).

Class: Barbarian. This is obvious for level 1. Conan comes out of the wilderness as a barbarian, and his barbaric fighting skills and attitude are his primary advantages over civilized men. The class does him justice in 5th ed, in my opinion; the Danger Sense and Unarmored Defense abilities seeming especially Conan-inspired.

Background: I was torn between Outlander and Criminal. While Outlander seems pretty obvious, the proficiencies and abilities it grants are a bit redundant for barbarian, and Conan certainly isn't skilled with a musical instrument. If we consider his early life as a thief part of his background, which explicitly take place when he was a teenager, and choose criminal, we could get his stealth abilities into the build without having to multiclass Rogue, and Conan certainly uses criminal contacts in a couple of stories. This would make Conan first or second level for the events of "Tower of the Elephant" and "The God in the Bowl," which would fit.
I decided to use a custom background, combining bits of Criminal, Outlander, and Soldier. I will call it "Scoundrel" for lack of a better term at the moment.

Background Skills: Athletics, Stealth
Tool proficiencies: Gaming Set (Dice), Vehicles: Land (I chose not to give him proficiency with thieves' tools for one simple reason - he never uses them in the stories. When confronted with locked doors, even when committing burglary like in "The God in the Bowl" he just cuts the locks open with his sword).
Feature: Friends in Low Places
You are well-known by thieves, mercenaries, and pirates. You have a reputation that garners respect in these circles, but contempt from pampered nobles and bureaucrats. Fellow criminals will help you with a bit of information, a meal, or a dagger hidden in the right place, but they will not risk their lives, and will certainly turn on you if it seems like the profitable move. Nobles may hire you to carry out unsavory tasks if they learn of your reputation.

With Athletics and Stealth covered by the background now, we can choose Perception from the class, and Survival. I chose Survival over intimidation because Conan very rarely bothers trying to cow foes into backing down, he simply kills those that threaten him sufficiently. He also does use Survival in several stories, going for days living solely off the land (such as in "Iron Shadows in the Moon").

[Grynning]

Part 2: Progression and feats

I am going to follow the Joe Marek Chronology of Conan's life (http://www.barbariankeep.com/marek.html) because it's the one I think is most accurate, and it has nice divisions for me to break up his levels. I am going to assume that Conan is level 20 at the start of "The Hour of the Dragon," which is the last story chronologically. Note that simulation rather than optimization is the goal here, so some choices may not seem like the "best" for that level, but we're going for a much more specific character here.

Level 1: Barbarian 1, as described above
Rage 2/day, Unarmored Defense
Level 2: Barbarian 2
Reckless Attack, Danger Sense
Level 3: Barbarian 3
Path of the Berserker - Frenzy, Rage 3/day
Level 4: Fighter 1
Duelist Fighting Style, Second Wind,
Conan first works as a mercenary and learns archery between Rogues in the House and Queen of the Black Coast, hence the first level of fighter here. I picked duelist because Conan almost always prefers to fight with a one-handed weapon, often going through entire stories with nothing but a knife or a saber, having a hand open to grapple or punch with.


Level 5: Barbarian 4
Feat: Athlete, adding +1 to Strength. Conan is capable of amazing feats of climbing and jumping, and definitely should have this feat. As I said earlier, I'd rather have it at level 1, but point buy makes that too difficult.
Level 6:Fighter 2
Action Surge
This is about when Black Colossus takes place. Conan is serving in an army and becomes a general for the first time, so that's another Fighter level to me.
Level 7: Barbarian 5
Extra Attack, Fast Movement
Level 8: Barbarian 6
Mindless Rage, Rage 4/day



Level 9: Barbarian 7
Feral Instinct
Level 10: Barbarian 8
Tavern Brawler feat, adding to Strength. Conan uses improvised weapons and unarmed strikes quite a bit.
Level 11: Barbarian 9
Brutal Critical (1 die), Rage damage +3
Level 12: Barbarian 10
Intimidating Presence



Level 13: Barbarian 11
Relentless Rage
Level 14: Barbarian 12
Rage 5/day, Add 2 to Con, bringing it to 16
Level 15: Fighter 3
Battlemaster - Feinting Attack, Riposte, Sweeping Attack, Proficiency with Cartographer's Tools
Level 16: Fighter 4
Linguist Feat - this is pure flavor, but in Jewels of Gwahlur, Conan is noted as a linguist, and this comes up again in the stories where he is king.



Level 17: Fighter 5
Level 18: Fighter 6
Max Strength at 20 (finally)
Level 19: Fighter 7
Battlemaster - Disarming Attack, Trip Attack
Level 20: Fighter 8
Add 2 to Con, bringing it to 18

[Human Paragon 3]

Looking forward to seeing how this shakes out. I assume you're using Variant Human for the extra feat and skill? Regular human (+1 in everything) would probably be OK, too.

[Naanomi]

He's never been one for spellcasting, so that cuts us down quite a bit option wise. I would guess that most of his levels are just Fighter levels; as the Bonus Feats and Attribute Increases are both desperately needed in his characterization (IE: Being awesome at everything). Champion or Battlemaster, I could see arguments either way.

Don't forget one can learn languages with 'training' instead of spending feats.

[Chadamantium]

Looking forward to seeing how this shakes out. I assume you're using Variant Human for the extra feat and skill? Regular human (+1 in everything) would probably be OK, too.

He choose +1 to everything. I'd personally go with the extra feat for Conan to try and make he as versatile as the character.

[D-naras]

I love you for doing this. (Book) Conan is by far my favourite fictional character and the comics by Dark Horse do him great justice as well. You will still need 1 level of Rogue for expertise in Athletics for his supreme climbing abilities and maybe Stealth, since Conan was never found when he wanted to hide.

[Knaight]

I'm actually not sure that Barbarian is a particularly good choice, as far as classes go. Conan is notable for general fighting and athletic prowess, along with various covert and survival skills. Fighter is probably better, and it might even be worth looking into Ranger (though I don't know that class well at all).

[Serafina]

Totem Warrior Barbarian seems pretty nice actually.
Take three levels and essentially gain resistance to all damage while raging - including magic. A short burst of energy that helps shrug off the workings of evil sorcerers seems very fitting for Conan.

[Naanomi]

I like the +1 all stats Human for Conan; helps his 'good at everything' persona.

Should we consider his first level as Fighter for the Heavy Armor Proficiency? It's kind of his thing, book version, right?

[D-naras]

I like the +1 all stats Human for Conan; helps his 'good at everything' persona.

Should we consider his first level as Fighter for the Heavy Armor Proficiency? It's kind of his thing, book version, right?

Yup, but then you can't showcase his jaguar-like reflexes and agility.

[Grynning]

Conan is very solidly a medium armor user. In "Black Colossus" he is dressed in heavy plate for a show parade when he is made general of an army, but he changes back into scale mail for the battle because he finds the plate too restrictive.
I chose +1 to all stats because otherwise I simply can't get his numbers high enough with the point buy. He will be taking feats and multiclassing a bit through the build.

Current progression plan: Barbarian 12 (Path of the Berserker, totem warrior has too much magic gobbledygook for Conan), Fighter 8 (Battle Master). Not sure what order the levels are going to go in just yet, but this gets us lots of ability score improvements from Fighter to get feats and such, and also gets us Relentless Rage, which I think is essential for Conan - he is definitely rocking some Relentless Rage in "Xuthal of the Dusk," for instance, when he takes stab after stab but just refuses to go down because he's so damned angry.

I thought long and hard about Rogue levels, but I don't think they really give him much that he needs to be Conan from the books. Sneak attacking is not his thing - he generally bellows out threats and war cries before he hacks people to bits, and while expertise is cool, his stats should make him good enough at physical skills anyways. He doesn't need proficiency with thieves' tools for reason I already outlined above. Thieves' Cant doesn't really exist as such in the setting, so that's moot. 2 levels for cunning action could be cool, but we're getting the superior action surge from Fighter levels anyways.

[Corvus]

Its hard to do Conan properly in D&D as they are at the opposite end of the fantasy scale, being high magic as opposed to Conan's very low magic.

And he wears heavy armour on a number of occasions, right from the very first story (The Phoenix on the Sword) and again in The Hour of the Dragon from memory.

[Grynning]

I would argue that in those stories his battle harness is probably closer to half-plate, and those stories both take place fairly late in his life when he's been king for a little while already. He could have used a feat to get heavy armor proficiency somewhere in there, but in most of the stories he never wears anything heavier than a chain shirt or scale-mail.

[Angelalex242]

By contrast, Ahnuld is more of a Straight Barbarian 20.

[Corvus]

Arnold is not, and never will be, Conan. He is nothing like the Conan of the books - Jason Momoa was a far better representation.

There is also a story from his mercenary days - Black Colossus - where he wore full plate armour. Conan wore what was appropriate to the situation and wielded whatever was at hand. Iron Heroes was a good system to represent him, if it hadn't been left unfinished and a bit unbalanced as a restult.

[hamishspence]

There is also a story from his mercenary days - Black Colossus - where he wore full plate armour.

Isn't Full Plate a bit too modern for the Conan-verse?

[Corvus]

Oddly no. You'd think so but fully armoured knights turn up regularly.

[da_chicken]

Arnold is not, and never will be, Conan.

I disagree. Howard's Conan is definitely different than John Milius's Conan, but I think a very large percentage of people just want to run with the latter and crank up the Basil Poledouris (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/Anvil_of_Crom_%28sample%29_by_Basil_Poledouris.ogg ).

[Sartharina]

I'd say Conan's a rage barbarian with emphasis on middle-high STR (~16), DEX (At least 13), CON(At least 13), and WIS and INT are still respectable. While he's a barbarian, though, he's extremely cunning and skilled. He's also probably at least level 12 in 5e, as opposed to the level 6 D&D 3e tried to model him in (I really wish that, to keep casters and martial characters on par, the levels were extended out to 30 again, with wizards getting their spellcasting similarly stretched out)

He actually may not have much higher than 12 CON, at least before he starts pumping his stats - his d12 Hit die, resistance to damage, con proficiency, and Half-plate armor give him his survivability.

[Meltheim]

My go-to is Fafhrd! I've never tried Conan. This looks great so far!

[Grynning]

My go-to is Fafhrd! I've never tried Conan. This looks great so far!

Thanks! Btw, I love Fafhrd! That's my barbarian's name in Diablo III. However, I'm not quite as familiar with Fritz Leiber as I am with Howard.

[Grynning]

There is also a story from his mercenary days - Black Colossus - where he wore full plate armour. Conan wore what was appropriate to the situation and wielded whatever was at hand. Iron Heroes was a good system to represent him, if it hadn't been left unfinished and a bit unbalanced as a restult.

I already mentioned Black Colossus above. He wears the armor only briefly - as soon as they make camp he changes back into his mercenary scale mail and wears that for the actual battle because the plate armor slows him down, implying he is not proficient with it (in 5th ed terms).

[hamishspence]

Oddly no. You'd think so but fully armoured knights turn up regularly.

I was under the impression that it would be more "breastplate + greaves and armguards + lots of chainmail" (half-plate) rather than Henry VIII style full gothic plate.

[Grynning]

So, I finished the basic build (2nd post, updated). Not *entirely* happy with it. I think I'd like the fighter levels earlier in the build for more mileage out of the Battlemaster Maneuvers over his lifetime as a character. I front loaded on Barbarian to try to hit Relentless Rage as fast as possible, but that may have been a mistake. I was trying to pick the levels at points where they made sense in his story progression as well, if I was optimizing, I'd have done them differently.

If we could pretend I had better ability scores, say from good rolls, I would definitely pick the variant human to start him with either Athlete or Tavern Brawler, and probably pick up a different feat like Great Weapon Mastery or something in his progression. I also really dislike Linguist being a feat, and it should give you more than 3 languages if it stays a feat. I think there should be another way to learn more languages that don't involve burning something as crucial as a feat/ability score bump; we'll have to see if the DMG has anything like that.

This has led me to one conclusion about this edition; it's the first time where I'm really torn as to whether I prefer point buy over rolling. 3.5/PF I would take point buy every time, but the lack of a "high-powered" point buy option and the stat cap of 15 once again hurts melee characters the most since they need more stats going for them than casters. That point buy definitely made the build harder.

[Angelalex242]

That's with point buy.

What would you do if you could simply set his stats at what you feel is appropriate?

[Naanomi]

I also really dislike Linguist being a feat, and it should give you more than 3 languages if it stays a feat. I think there should be another way to learn more languages that don't involve burning something as crucial as a feat/ability score bump; we'll have to see if the DMG has anything like that.
You can train in Languages without spending a feat, it just takes quite a bit of time...

[Caelic]

I almost feel like Champion or the Athlete feat is needed. One aspect of Conan's abilities that comes up time and time again in the Howard stories is his catlike agility and climbing skill.

[Grynning]

That's with point buy.

What would you do if you could simply set his stats at what you feel is appropriate?

If I could just pick his stats, starting with up to 18, he would have started w/18 Str, 16 Dex and Con, and 14 in all the mental stats, and probably would have gotten a couple extra feats just for being Conan. That sounds over the top, but the character from the stories is damn near infallible, like James Bond with a sword. But again, my goal was to try and replicate the character while staying within the bounds of the system.


I almost feel like Champion or the Athlete feat is needed. One aspect of Conan's abilities that comes up time and time again in the Howard stories is his catlike agility and climbing skill.

I took the Athlete feat at level 5. Again, it really belongs at level one, but see my complaints about the point buy.

[Caelic]

I took the Athlete feat at level 5. Again, it really belongs at level one, but see my complaints about the point buy.

D'oh. Missed that. I see it now.

[Angelalex242]

Well, that's the rub, isn't it?

PC Conan has to play by the rules. NPC Conan does not, and thus, you can set him with the abilities he should have to accurately represent what we see.

You're still more restrained then I am, though, as I might've just set him at 20s for str/dex/con, and his barbarian naked armor ability would take care of his AC his entire career.

[Corvus]

I was under the impression that it would be more "breastplate + greaves and armguards + lots of chainmail" (half-plate) rather than Henry VIII style full gothic plate.

From memory (and I don't have the stories on me at the moment) on a number of occasions its lists all the pieces - the vambraces and sollets and casques and breastplates and what not. Whether that is full plate or half plate is left open.

[Grynning]

Since we kind of have a side discussion about Hyborian age armor going on here...
Full plate does exist in the Conan universe. Aquilonian knights wear it, as do the Khorajan knights in Black Colossus. However, Conan himself is not a fan, and while he is kitted out in something like half-plate some of the time, I can't recall him ever wearing full-plate into a battle. The exception may occur in Hour of the Dragon, which I have not read in a long time, but in all the other ones (which I have read fairly recently), he sticks to medium armor types when he's not running around shirtless showing off his glistening pects. Yes, he is decked out in full-plate for one scene in Black Colossus, but as I have said twice in the thread already, he chooses to discard it as soon as he's out of the city.

Stories wear Conan wears armor, off the top of my head:
Frost Giant's Daughter - Chainmail Shirt and Shield
Queen of the Black Coast - Hodgepodge of chainmail and scale with plate greaves and bracers, probably equivalent to scale or half-plate, no shield
Black Colossus - Scale mail in the beginning and the battle scene, full plate (ceremonial only), I believe he has a shield in the battle as well.
A Witch Shall be Born - Light chainmail, which would probably be a chain mail shirt in game terms again
The Scarlet Citadel - he wears nondescript black armor for the final battle scene, which again I would guess to be something like half-plate.

[WhiteHarness]

He wears full plate (presumably custom-made, given his status as king) more than once in The Hour of the Dragon, and in The Phoenix on the Sword, he is interrupted as he is arming himself in what sounds like fairly substantial plate armor. Since he was interrupted before he could finish arming, we can't be 100% sure that he intended to kit up in complete plate, but given that his armor as king of Aquilonia is described as a more or less full harness in The Hour of the Dragon, there's no reason to suspect otherwise. For this reason, I think we may safely assume that his black armor in The Scarlet Citadel is also full plate.

His distaste for the full plate in Black Colossus probably reflects the fact that that particular harness was not custom-fitted to his frame.