Turn Undead attempts and Spells per day vs Ability modifications

[heavyfuel]

I had asked this in the previous RAW Q&A a few times and got no answer:

Imagine the following situations. A Cleric with Cha 16 has 6 TU attempts per day. On a given day, he uses a single TU and later on the day, one of following scenarios happen as he proceeds to

A) Get his Cha damage for 4 points;

B) Get his Cha penalized for 4 points;

C) Get his Cha increased for 4 points.

How many turn undead attempts does he have left on each of these three scenarios?


Now imagine the same Cleric has Wis 18. At lv8 this gives him, besides domain spells and orisons, a total of 5/4/4/3 spells per day. If he has already used one of the 4th level spells, and gets Wis penalized/damaged by 2 points. Does he lose a 4th level spell?

Thanks!

[LimSindull]

This is just what I am reading, but:

A cleric may attempt to turn or rebuke undead a number of times per day equal to three plus his Charisma modifier.

If the charisma modifier changes, then so can the number of attempts the cleric can make.

A: Minus two to the modifier means minus two to the attempts per day (as if used)

B: Minus two to the modifier means minus two to the attempts per day (as if used)

C: Plus two to the modifier means an additional two attempts per day (during the allotted time frame) If the base number (6) was left, then six would still be left after the effects wore off even if two had already been used.

That's just the way that I read the ability.

I would also say yes, the cleric does lose a fourth level spell due to the loss of the ability score. Since the cleric gains an extra spell due to a high ability modifier, the maximum number of spells that the cleric can cast would also decrease if the modifier was reduced. Since one spell was already cast that day, then it too would subtract from the maximum number of spells left.

Anyways, these are just the way that I interpret the rules. I hope that this helps.

[Crake]

With regards to the turn attempts, your cha determines how many times you can turn each day. Think of it not as a renewable pool like powerpoints, or spells per day, but rather a counter that goes up until it reaches the number.

So in your scenario, you have a maximum of 6 turns. If you use 1, its not that you have 5 turns left, its that you've used 1 turn. So if your cha goes down for any reason, you've still only used 1 turn, but your max drops, in this case, to 4. So you can use 3 more turns while your cha is penalised. Once the penalty goes away/damage is healed, you go back to having 6 turns/day, meaning you'd have 2 more turns.

Similarly, if your cha goes up, you have additional turns/day, so say you have used all 6 of your turns and then you boost your cha by 4. Your max is now 8 turns/day. You can use both additional turns, but when your cha drops back down to 16, the fact remains that youve used 8 turns, so boosting it again wont change that, you'll still have used 8 turns, and have a max of 8.

As for the spells/day question, I'm not entirely sure

[heavyfuel]

With regards to the turn attempts, your cha determines how many times you can turn each day. Think of it not as a renewable pool like powerpoints, or spells per day, but rather a counter that goes up until it reaches the number.

So in your scenario, you have a maximum of 6 turns. If you use 1, its not that you have 5 turns left, its that you've used 1 turn. So if your cha goes down for any reason, you've still only used 1 turn, but your max drops, in this case, to 4. So you can use 3 more turns while your cha is penalised. Once the penalty goes away/damage is healed, you go back to having 6 turns/day, meaning you'd have 2 more turns.

Similarly, if your cha goes up, you have additional turns/day, so say you have used all 6 of your turns and then you boost your cha by 4. Your max is now 8 turns/day. You can use both additional turns, but when your cha drops back down to 16, the fact remains that youve used 8 turns, so boosting it again wont change that, you'll still have used 8 turns, and have a max of 8.

That actually makes sense. Thanks!

Now if only I can get a ruling on the spell slot deal It'll be fine