Eternal Wand vs Minor Schema - Which for a Cleric to access Sor/Wiz spells?

[unseenmage]

Just like the title says, which is better (for an ECL 8 but only level 5 Cleric) to get access to a couple of Sor/Wiz spells?

General discussion of the one vs the other appreciated too. I do not have even a tenuous grasp on what makes each better and when.

[bjoern]

Just like the title says, which is better (for an ECL 8 but only level 5 Cleric) to get access to a couple of Sor/Wiz spells?

General discussion of the one vs the other appreciated too. I do not have even a tenuous grasp on what makes each better and when.

I usually turn to eternal wands and UMD to get arcane spells. To be fair though I haven'tused schemas.

[jiriku]

Eternal wands can be used only by arcane casters. Schemas can be used only if the spell in the schema is on your class spell list. Unless you have a way to get a large UMD bonus, I don't see either of these items allowing you to get access to new spells. Assuming you have UMD, an eternal wand can only hold spells of 3rd level or lower and grants two uses per day, while a schema grants only one use per day and becomes dormant for 1d6 days if you fail a UMD check with it. Thus, you'd prefer an eternal wand unless the spell is 4th level or higher, in which case the schema would be your only option.

[chaos_redefined]

Eternal wands can be used only by arcane casters. Schemas can be used only if the spell in the schema is on your class spell list. Unless you have a way to get a large UMD bonus, I don't see either of these items allowing you to get access to new spells. Assuming you have UMD, an eternal wand can only hold spells of 3rd level or lower and grants two uses per day, while a schema grants only one use per day and becomes dormant for 1d6 days if you fail a UMD check with it. Thus, you'd prefer an eternal wand unless the spell is 4th level or higher, in which case the schema would be your only option.

He's 8th level, and a cleric, so he has some charisma synergy from Turn Undead. Assuming at least a positive charisma bonus, that already gives a +12. With a MW UMD tool (valid, by the rules. up to your imagination what it is. I usually go a wand-grip) and Shape Soulmeld(Mage's Spectacles), that +18. He needs to roll a 2 to activate the wand.

[unseenmage]

Yeah, my cross class UMD right now, before spending any WBL on it is at +11. Is the above the best way to up that UMD and how much will it cost me?

The spells I'm after have permanent efffects and no expensive material components.

[jiriku]

Yeah that method is pretty good. A masterwork tool is an easy +2 for an investment of 50 gp. Shape Soulmeld is a feat in Magic of Incarnum. It has no prerequisites, and when used to shape the mage's spectacles soulmeld, it would give you a +4 on your check, which is slightly better than Skill Focus would do. If your DM permits retraining of feats, obtaining Shape Soulmeld with your 9th level feat, then retraining it to something else at 10th level when you don't need it any more, would be reasonable. Or, if you expect to use UMD a lot, you may consider it a useful permanent investment. However, unless you're using a schema, you don't really need it. With a masterwork tool you'll have a +13 on your check, which is about a 70% chance of success. You'll probably succeed on your first or second try.

[unseenmage]

Yeah that method is pretty good. A masterwork tool is an easy +2 for an investment of 50 gp. Shape Soulmeld is a feat in Magic of Incarnum. It has no prerequisites, and when used to shape the mage's spectacles soulmeld, it would give you a +4 on your check, which is slightly better than Skill Focus would do. If your DM permits retraining of feats, obtaining Shape Soulmeld with your 9th level feat, then retraining it to something else at 10th level when you don't need it any more, would be reasonable. Or, if you expect to use UMD a lot, you may consider it a useful permanent investment. However, unless you're using a schema, you don't really need it. With a masterwork tool you'll have a +13 on your check, which is about a 70% chance of success. You'll probably succeed on your first or second try.

Except that with Schemas there is no second try. They shut down for days if you fail a check. In order to get multiple tries you have to buy several of them.

Edit: And burning a feat on this is a no-go. Sorry. Didn't realize that was part of the recipe.

[jiriku]

Which would be why I said, "unless you're using a schema." But if you only want the effect once and it's permanent, waiting a few days is hardly a disaster. Now, if you were hoping to create permanent effects 1/day like clockwork, then yes, you need a lot of UMD. Which was the source of my initial skepticism. UMD is a skill with a high barrier to entry. With only cross-class ranks and a moderate Charisma score, you're not going to consistently hit DC 20. I'm surprised you even got to +11. That's really impressive for cross-class.

[unseenmage]

Which would be why I said, "unless you're using a schema." But if you only want the effect once and it's permanent, waiting a few days is hardly a disaster. Now, if you were hoping to create permanent effects 1/day like clockwork, then yes, you need a lot of UMD. Which was the source of my initial skepticism. UMD is a skill with a high barrier to entry. With only cross-class ranks and a moderate Charisma score, you're not going to consistently hit DC 20. I'm surprised you even got to +11. That's really impressive for cross-class.

Cha mod of +5, max cross class ranks at 4, and a racial bonus to UMD (Primordial Giant, SoX) will do that.

Here's hoping the DM doesn't mind Guidance of the Avatar (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a) then. Thanks for your help everyone.

[unseenmage]

How much would a Staff be with a level 2 spell and a level 4 spell in it, neither of which have expensive components? If my math is right, with each use burning two charges, the Market Price would be 8,250gp. Waaay better than the combined prices of a 2,400gp Schema and a 11,200gp Schema. Here's hoping the DM will let me start with it. Heck I'd even start with it half charged.

Would you lose a charge from the Staff if you failed a Use Magic Device check?