How do you feel about magic item crafting feats?

[Zanos]

In Pathfinder, the experience cost for crafting items doesn't exist. In my mind this makes Craft Wondrous Item in particular a very attractive feat for prepared casters, as they could potentially acquire a very large number of magical items at half price without falling behind in level. Since character power scales very directly with wealth, this seems like a very substantial increase in power for the cost of a feat. It even has very good synergy for your party, since if you have a lot of time you could potentially give your party members as well as yourself a significant WBL advantage.

Yet in most wizard guides I've read on the topic, many others still seem to avoid item creation feats, at best offering a weak recommendation for CWI if you can't think of anything else to take.

Any thoughts on this?

[Gnaeus]

Its one of the strongest feats in the game if you can use it. If the DM refuses to give any downtime, its hard to make do on 2 hours per day. Better yet, of course, is to take leadership and have your cohort take crafting feats, but that is also even more likely to be DM Banned.

Oh, also, some people don't like the book diving and math needed to make it work. PFSRD helps a lot, but it still takes a fair bit of research to be a good crafter.

[jaydubs]

Well, it depends on the campaign. For example:

1) Do you have time to use it?

Magic item creation is obviously better when you have time to craft. While you're out adventuring, you're limited to spend 4 hours to get 2 hours worth of work. So while you may be able to get some crafting done even if you're always busy, it's definitely a limitation.

2) Does it actually increase how many magic items you have?

The guidelines suggest not actually letting the party/character have double the amount of magic items. It suggests letting crafting add about 25% to effective wealth, or 50% if you have multiple crafting feats.

So it depends on how much or little the DM ends up adjusting how much loot the party receives.

3) Does it actually increase your selection of magic items?

Another reason to pick up crafting feats is to be able to select whichever items you want. But if the campaign already has magic marts and people willing to take commissions for custom items, that advantage goes away.

Edit: Reading the below posts, there's also:

4) Do the DM's WBL calculations (if he has them) include loss in converting items?

Item creation feats let you turn that useless +2 weapon that no one uses, into a useful +2 weapon without losing money. You sell for 50%, and craft for 50%. Otherwise, you sell for 50%, and buy for 100%.

But some DM's may already take that consideration.

[duboisjf]

I play a game with a lot of downtime. So my cleric took CWI

Adding to the advantage of crafting for myself, I also craft for the rest of my party : I craft for 50% of the price and sell them at 60%. So I make a profit of 10% of the price.

Yet, I think our DM is simply adjusting the total lot value to prevent us from being overequiped. But I not 100% sure about it.

So the only advantage I get is having a larger part of the total value with the profit I do by crafting for other.

So make sure your DM don't take away your advantage by adjusting the amount of treasure in the campaign because crafting feats become meaningless in this situation.

[Roncorps]

So make sure your DM don't take away your advantage by adjusting the amount of treasure in the campaign because crafting feats become meaningless in this situation.

But like @jaydubs said, even if the DM adjust the treasure, you have the liberty to get more choice with crafting as it's not decided by the DM loot.

[TheMonocleRogue]

I normally don't ban the use of those feats since the requirements to make items can become very steep in the long run. Also there are some class features which give you crafting feats for free and/or allow you to ignore some of the prerequisites (Golem Constructor, Arcane Bond, ect.)

If the campaign isn't on a day-to-day basis and allows for long downtime periods to craft items then someone should take that opportunity. It also helps to craft specific items if your GM rolls all the loot randomly for each encounter.

[duboisjf]

But like @jaydubs said, even if the DM adjust the treasure, you have the liberty to get more choice with crafting as it's not decided by the DM loot.

True, but I've never been in a game where choice of item was limited, so forgot to think about that.

[oxybe]

Most wizard guides build towards a goal and for the most part metamagic fits better then item crafting... they generally allow you to make you magic into better magic.

An enchanter that can assure enemies stay confused or mind controlled is an enchanter you probably wouldn't mind having. A summoner who can keep a pocket party on call for most of the day is probably going to be in high demand.

Most guides also assume you're getting standard WBL and access to McMagic's. Most of the games I play in generally require you to pass any magic item by the GM first as well as we very often get less then WBL... so it's often in our best interest to have someone capable of making those items.

So really, unless you have ways of abusing WBL unchecked, the item creation feats don't give you a whole lot in return. For us it generally means we either get a big/important item slightly earlier or an extra little trinket to use.

[duboisjf]

Well, it depends on the campaign. For example:
The guidelines suggest not actually letting the party/character have double the amount of magic items. It suggests letting crafting add about 25% to effective wealth, or 50% if you have multiple crafting feats.


First time I read about that. Where do I find that ?

[Barstro]

I like using it a lot. But, in all honesty, I'm not a fan. Using it as written often doesn't work out.

In the typical campaign that I have played, there isn't any actual downtime. Without a Ring of Sustenance, there isn't enough time to do actual crafting. Even with a ring (or real downtime) it's generally more economical to spend more time fighting and earning enough coin to purchase.

Outside of a few useful low-level items (Pearl of Power), the time it takes to craft an item is prohibitive. No need to spend to spend thousands of GP and several days making a better sword when you are bound to find one anyway in the next couple battles. But this all becomes moot when you can get the correct demiplane.

It alters wealth by level so that the PCs become prematurely powerful. Typical result; DM gives out less treasure later.


The feats have a lot of use for roleplaying in areas where stores are few and far between or if you need a specific item and it makes sense that nobody is willing to sell. I think it's a nice Feat Tax for tier-1s, but what else were they going to get anyway?

In the end, I'd much rather have the time for crafting be dependent on a skill check or spells used (a L20 caster should be able to make a really good wand in a lot less time than L5 by taking a day to blow through all his spells). I'd also have them tied to the Material Plane on normal time to get rid of demiplane shenanigans.

[jaydubs]

First time I read about that. Where do I find that ?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items

Search for "Adjusting Character Wealth by Level".

[jiriku]

Caveat: 3.5 player here, not PF.

I use item creation feats heavily, and can strongly recommend them. I am usually the best optimizer in my group, and a constant concern is how to enjoy my gaming without overshadowing the other players. Item creation feats are a fantastic party leveler. The novice players in my group generally don't notice when their characters have poor AC, saves, etc for their level, or don't know how to correct that with strategic magic item purchases. But if I say "Hey, I can make you a cloak of resistance for half price, would you like one of those?" or "I can make you some cheap magic armor, does that sound good?" the answer is almost always yes. So, the item creation feats function as an entry ticket that allows me to give build advice and correct weaknesses in the other PCs without coming across as pushy or controlling with my friends. Meanwhile, the lost feat slots limit my character power slightly, which overall levels us out quite nicely. When I'm not gearing up the party, I accumulate scrolls and wands of little-used spells and collaborate with the divine casters in the party to produce wands of healing and debuff-removal spells, ensuring that we'll always have just what we need when trouble comes up. Because of my efforts, the party's a lot less likely to get stuck on a challenge or suffer a PC death.

Ultimately, item creation feats are most useful when you let go of the idea of winning with your PC and embracing the idea of winning with the group. I think that's why you don't see them in guides; guides are about how to make your character win, and can't really offer advice about how to interact with your party and your adventure path.

[Oazard]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items

Search for "Adjusting Character Wealth by Level".

And that why I don't like d20pfsrd because this rule is from Ultimate Campaign in the optional "Campaign Systems" section and there is no indication of that. :smallannoyed: