Roy's Sword and Eugene not showing up since Roy's resurection

[doctor23]

I'm sure this has been discussed at length and I'm equally sure that I am not the first to come up with this theory. So feel free to point me in the direction of the appropriate thread so I can go read it. Anywho here goes.

According to Eugene Greenhilt the Greenhilt sword is the reason he can visit Roy this is shown here (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html).

The Greenhilt sword is reforged as a starmetal sword here (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0298.html)

One would expect that with Roy having the sword reforged he would then be getting regular visits from his father again. However, the next time we see Eugene is here (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html). After Xykon has killed Roy and he is waiting to get into Mt. Celestia

In fact in all the times Roy attempts to manifest to Haley (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0527.html) he fails even though Haley has the sword.

Also we have not seen Eugene since his conversation with the celestial about V (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html)

There seems to be no good reason for this other than , and this is pure speculation, that the Greenhilt sword is no longer the Greenhilt sword now that it has been reforged in starmetal alloy.

Or am I way off in left field here?

[Keltest]

It seems a plausible theory, but equally likely is the out-of-story reason that there is no reason for Eugene to show up right now. He hasn't had access to any information the Order needs but doesn't have (presumably), and the comic has moved far beyond the joke-a-day format of DCF that led to the "goat turns" prophecy.

[DaggerPen]

This is my personal theory as well, since Eugene promised to haunt Roy when Xykon went on the move.

[Porthos]

My theory is similar to the OP, but not quite the same. My theory is that the undead-bane (or whatever it is that makes it more deadly to undead) quailties of the starmetal in the sword is what is keeping Eugene away.

OK, Eugene isn't undead. Granted. Perhaps close enough for jazz though.

[DaggerPen]

My theory is similar to the OP, but not quite the same. My theory is that the undead-bane (or whatever it is that makes it more deadly to undead) quailties of the starmetal in the sword is what is keeping Eugene away.

OK, Eugene isn't undead. Granted. Perhaps close enough for jazz though.

... whoops. I totally misread the OP to think they were suggesting this. Yeah, I think the undead bane property is probably it.

[Porthos]

... whoops. I totally misread the OP to think they were suggesting this. Yeah, I think the undead bane property is probably it.

I will admit that going down The Sword That Was Reforged route (as Narsil became Andúril) is a theory I haven't given any thought to. I still like my personal theory more, but this one does have a small amount of literary precedence. :smallwink:

[Vinyadan]

I think this is the will of the True Pure Beings of Good and Law Who Got Pissed at Eugene for his little game and now are punishing him by forcing his overblown ego to lie quietly and scry while his dumb fighter son hits things with a pointy stick to solve the self-inflicted problems the oh-so-powerful magical dude couldn't or didn't want to solve.

Of course, the other theories also make sense.

[Yendor]

Also we have not seen Eugene since his conversation with the celestial about V (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html)

The fact that he burned the report suggests to me he doesn't intend to appear to Roy again.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think this is the will of the True Pure Beings of Good and Law Who Got Pissed at Eugene for his little game and now are punishing him by forcing his overblown ego to lie quietly and scry while his dumb fighter son hits things with a pointy stick to solve the self-inflicted problems the oh-so-powerful magical dude couldn't or didn't want to solve.

Of course, the other theories also make sense.

I think that it is something along these lines, except I think that the True Pure Beings of Law and Good are more specifically pissed at Eugene for pretending to be one of them and for not passing on the message to Roy about Vaarsuvius. As a consequence, they are preventing him from haunting Roy.

[doctor23]

My theory is similar to the OP, but not quite the same. My theory is that the undead-bane (or whatever it is that makes it more deadly to undead) quailties of the starmetal in the sword is what is keeping Eugene away.

OK, Eugene isn't undead. Granted. Perhaps close enough for jazz though.

I had considered this as well but rejected it due to the strip I linked above and others where Roy is near the sword in ghost form just unable to manifest. I would expect other effects if the undead bane (I like that name btw) was keeping him away. I would expect our ghost friends would not be able to be near the thing at all if that were the case

[Aedilred]

I think it's a combination of Eugene's having no need to do so (the Order are pretty well-informed now compared to previously and he wouldn't have much to add), Eugene's stock having fallen considerably in the celestial realms since he impersonated Tony, and the falling-out between him and Roy while Roy was there. He's probably not going to bother manifesting - assuming he can - unless it's something seriously important.

[Morquard]

I think that it is something along these lines, except I think that the True Pure Beings of Law and Good are more specifically pissed at Eugene for pretending to be one of them and for not passing on the message to Roy about Vaarsuvius. As a consequence, they are preventing him from haunting Roy.
Honestly "You refused to forward information that is vital to his quest to your son. So now that you want to manifest to him to give him equally vital information, we won't let you, out of spite" does not sound very Good nor very Lawful.

So my ideas:
a) So far Eugene appeared at night to Roy. It's possible there wasn't a possibility for him to do so after Xykon left.
b) Xykon literally got back from his secret trip for 3 minutes, to choke the other guy, get the Phylactery and then order everyone to leave. Poof. Eugene might simply have missed it. Once he realised that RC etc are gone too it was too late.
c) Eugene can't scry on Xykon in the Astral Plane
d) Eugene is a ****

[Keltest]

d) Eugene is a ****

I think we've found our winner.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Honestly "You refused to forward information that is vital to his quest to your son. So now that you want to manifest to him to give him equally vital information, we won't let you, out of spite" does not sound very Good nor very Lawful.
Not out of spite, but as a punishment for what he has done. You can hardly expect him to do these things and then walk with no consequences.


So my ideas:
a) So far Eugene appeared at night to Roy. It's possible there wasn't a possibility for him to do so after Xykon left.
b) Xykon literally got back from his secret trip for 3 minutes, to choke the other guy, get the Phylactery and then order everyone to leave. Poof. Eugene might simply have missed it. Once he realised that RC etc are gone too it was too late.
c) Eugene can't scry on Xykon in the Astral Plane
d) Eugene is a ****

With that said, I am open to other ideas, like some of the others on this thread, and d).

[Keltest]

Not out of spite, but as a punishment for what he has done. You can hardly expect him to do these things and then walk with no consequences.


The thing is, that's still sort of like not being allowed to use the copier at work for whatever reason, and then getting ordered to make 200 copies of an important document. Without the copier. Even if it is a punishment, it affects his capacity to actually get things done.

[factotum]

Not out of spite, but as a punishment for what he has done. You can hardly expect him to do these things and then walk with no consequences.

This is assuming they know what he did--it wasn't like the Lords of Law and Good descended in person to give Eugene the message to pass on to his son, they sent a harrassed flunky to do it, and she certainly didn't hang around to see him burn the message. It might well come up when he gets re-interviewed to enter Celestia after Xykon is destroyed, but until then, I doubt it will affect the situation.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

The thing is, that's still sort of like not being allowed to use the copier at work for whatever reason, and then getting ordered to make 200 copies of an important document. Without the copier. Even if it is a punishment, it affects his capacity to actually get things done.


This is assuming they know what he did--it wasn't like the Lords of Law and Good descended in person to give Eugene the message to pass on to his son, they sent a harrassed flunky to do it, and she certainly didn't hang around to see him burn the message. It might well come up when he gets re-interviewed to enter Celestia after Xykon is destroyed, but until then, I doubt it will affect the situation.

All right, those are both good points.

[zinycor]

I really miss Eugene :smallfrown:

[Kornaki]

With a clever application of divination magic, he might have realized Xykon was going to arrive as the gate was blowing up and thought "f it, I'll just let this one play out"

[Darth Paul]

With a clever application of divination magic, he might have realized Xykon was going to arrive as the gate was blowing up and thought "f it, I'll just let this one play out"

That's not bad. Also consider the timing factor; Eugene promised to haunt Roy if Xykon went on the move. Xykon's total movement (other than his jaunt to the Ethereal Plane, where there are no Gates and Eugene may not have been able to see him as pointed out above) consisted of 1 Teleport spell to Girard's Gate. By the time he was "on the move", he had already arrived. Roy already knew that Xykon had the diary and the Gate locations, so there was nothing new for Eugene to tell him (IIRC) and by the time there was any news, Roy already knew about it. Eugene showing up to say, "Oh, by the way, Xykon's teleporting to this Gate," would have just been pointless.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I misremembered the details.

[snowblizz]

I'm sure this has been discussed at length and I'm equally sure that I am not the first to come up with this theory. So feel free to point me in the direction of the appropriate thread so I can go read it. Anywho here goes.

According to Eugene Greenhilt the Greenhilt sword is the reason he can visit Roy this is shown here (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0291.html).
Not only the sword though. It's a material focus I guess, but there's also the specifics of the Blood Oath. This is mentioned somewhere, possibly the SoD prequel. Suffice to say, Roy would not have been given the "quest" or been haunted in the first place if Eugene had other options. Edit: No, it's On the Origins of PC's.


The Greenhilt sword is reforged as a starmetal sword here (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0298.html)

One would expect that with Roy having the sword reforged he would then be getting regular visits from his father again. However, the next time we see Eugene is here (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0484.html). After Xykon has killed Roy and he is waiting to get into Mt. Celestia
Well, not really. Eugene makes it fairly clear his interest in Roy is pretty limited, see above. Not only that, Roy has proved a total failure as far as E is concerned confirming all his prejudice vis a vis non-wizards usefulness. Basically, would Eugene get onto Mt C. faster if he haunted Roy? If the answer is anything other than a resounding yes E probably ain't going to bother.

Naturally the wildcard is, is he even able to? He has interfered in business that is not for mere mortals.


In fact in all the times Roy attempts to manifest to Haley (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0527.html) he fails even though Haley has the sword.
Yes, but again it's not the sword itself, as Roy is starting to suspect eg here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0534.html)
Again SoD mentions what options Eugene have for haunting. Roy would similarly be bound by these rules it would seem. We learn here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0485.html) that they think it will pass to Julia.


Also we have not seen Eugene since his conversation with the celestial about V (http://http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html) We have not, but then again we have had no reason to. Based on the above I'd wager Eugene would need a really really clear and obvious case of "my support right now means Xykon gets destroyed" for him to consider haunting. Because to him, Roy could now be construed as an obstruction between him and what he always thought was the solution, Julia.


There seems to be no good reason for this other than , and this is pure speculation, that the Greenhilt sword is no longer the Greenhilt sword now that it has been reforged in starmetal alloy.

Or am I way off in left field here?
Actually there is a good reason. And that is as have been mentioned so many times, Eugene isn't exactly a nice person. Something I haven't seen mentioned, but I think may impact is that E now knows Roy isn't working under the same "damned" parameters as he is. Roy gets to go into Mt C. when he dies, whatever happens to Xykon. For Eugene that probably means Roy isn't really trusted anymore, his stake in this is much much smaller than E's. I get the feeling he has changed his horse mid-race. Going as far as he'd rather see Roy dead and out of the way than actually help. Though who knows, maybe the old bas... guy will "redeem" himself still.

[Keltest]

Actually there is a good reason. And that is as have been mentioned so many times, Eugene isn't exactly a nice person. Something I haven't seen mentioned, but I think may impact is that E now knows Roy isn't working under the same "damned" parameters as he is. Roy gets to go into Mt C. when he dies, whatever happens to Xykon. For Eugene that probably means Roy isn't really trusted anymore, his stake in this is much much smaller than E's. I get the feeling he has changed his horse mid-race. Going as far as he'd rather see Roy dead and out of the way than actually help. Though who knows, maybe the old bas... guy will "redeem" himself still.

That actually raises an interesting point. If Roy were to just give up on chasing after Xykon and go after some other powerful antagonist and got killed doing it, would the Oath reclaim him, or did he already "pass", so to speak?

[evileeyore]

It seems a plausible theory, but equally likely is the out-of-story reason that there is no reason for Eugene to show up right now. He hasn't had access to any information the Order needs but doesn't have (presumably), and the comic has moved far beyond the joke-a-day format of DCF that led to the "goat turns" prophecy.
The simplest of explanations are often the best.

I dub this one "The Simplest".

[137beth]

I think it's a combination of Eugene's having no need to do so (the Order are pretty well-informed now compared to previously and he wouldn't have much to add), Eugene's stock having fallen considerably in the celestial realms since he impersonated Tony, and the falling-out between him and Roy while Roy was there. He's probably not going to bother manifesting - assuming he can - unless it's something seriously important.

I'm going with this one. Eugene only haunts Roy at night, so after Xykon went on the move, he would have had to wait until nightfall to inform Roy. But by that point, Haley had already received a Sending from Hinjo, so Eugene had no reason to haunt Roy.
The only other thing Eugene was supposed to tell Roy was the information about V--which he made clear to the audience he wasn't going to by burning it (and now Roy found out anyways, since V told him).

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I don't think that Eugene haunts Roy only at night because in the dungeon they would just rest whenever their casters ran out of spells. This could have been at any time, not just night, so I think he could haunt him whenever.

[snowblizz]

That actually raises an interesting point. If Roy were to just give up on chasing after Xykon and go after some other powerful antagonist and got killed doing it, would the Oath reclaim him, or did he already "pass", so to speak?

Well, it's not the Oath that binds him really. It's The Powers That Be refusing entry because of unfulfilled Oath, had Eugeen not been Lawful I get the feeling he'd probably not be inconvenienced in the after life. We see them refuse Eugene, but admit Roy. In principle I think Roy really did give it a shot, and as we know the TPTB has acknowledged that. The problem of course is that you aren't Lawful Good if you sorta abandon this type of thing, or at least not Roy.

It's a bit meta, but on some level I wonder if Roy is off the hook for the Oath-magic having died already. It gets a bit complicated in a system where death is not a binary condition. Because at Roy's death it should pass to Julia, but would it then revert back in the event he is raised? Seems a bit lawyerish that way.

On the whole I'm leaning towards that yes, Roy already did his part RE:Blood Oath as evidenced by TPTB. Then again, presumably you'd get a new hearing when you die again. Otherwise, you'd have carte blanche after being raised. On the other hand the process seemed a lot like being pre-approved.

[JSSheridan]

I think, since Roy died, the curse passed the Julia, even though he was resurrected.

[Rodin]

There's also the limited amount of information Eugene is permitted to give Roy. He could only give a vague prophecy when he originally manifested - the rest of the information given is when Eugene steals a position from the justice celestial and breaks all the usual rules (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0487.html).

Even if Eugene does have new information, he may not be permitted to give it...not due to punishment, but just standard "cryptic warnings from another world" rules.

[Kish]

I think, since Roy died, the curse passed the Julia, even though he was resurrected.
Considering the number of times Eugene died, it seems odd that the curse didn't pass to Roy years before Eugene stayed dead, then.

[Keltest]

Considering the number of times Eugene died, it seems odd that the curse didn't pass to Roy years before Eugene stayed dead, then.

Was Roy even born before Eugene retired?

[Kish]

Roy was born in 1155, when Eugene was 53.

Eugene made the Blood Oath before he had met Sara and, accordingly, well before Roy was born.

Eugene died in 1124, 1143, 1149, 1158, 1159, 1168, and 1180. Eugene died four times after Roy was born.

[Keltest]

Roy was born in 1155, when Eugene was 53.

Eugene made the Blood Oath before he had met Sara and, accordingly, well before Roy was born.

Eugene died in 1124, 1143, 1149, 1158, 1159, 1168, and 1180. Eugene died four times after Roy was born.

Wow, Eugene was quite old for an adventurer. Good on him.

[factotum]

Eugene died in 1124, 1143, 1149, 1158, 1159, 1168, and 1180. Eugene died four times after Roy was born.

One wonders how he died in 1158, 1159 and 1168, considering he told Roy that he gave up adventuring after he met Sara--magical experiments gone wrong?

[Morquard]

One wonders how he died in 1158, 1159 and 1168, considering he told Roy that he gave up adventuring after he met Sara--magical experiments gone wrong?

That would be the most likely explanation really. I believe it was said (or is the common assumption) that Eric died because of one of those experiments as well.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

One wonders how he died in 1158, 1159 and 1168, considering he told Roy that he gave up adventuring after he met Sara--magical experiments gone wrong?

I think that's what happened. There are probably other ways he could have died, but I think as a result of experimentation makes the most sense.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Or he lied about giving up adventuring. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Or he lied about giving up adventuring. Gotta pay the bills somehow.

I doubt it because That's also his reason for not accepting Right-Eye's job.

[Darth Paul]

I think that's what happened. There are probably other ways he could have died, but I think as a result of experimentation makes the most sense.

Repeated liver failure? (Consider the number of scenes with Eugene in bars...) Heart attack, given how uptight he is/was? The possibilities are endless. Honestly, the "experimentation" angle never occurred to me, if anything I just thought "old age" and any of the above.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Repeated liver failure? (Consider the number of scenes with Eugene in bars...) Heart attack, given how uptight he is/was? The possibilities are endless. Honestly, the "experimentation" angle never occurred to me, if anything I just thought "old age" and any of the above.

I guess those could also work. I like the experimentation idea, but I could do your suggestions happening too.

Edit: Except old age.

[tomandtish]

Well, it's not the Oath that binds him really. It's The Powers That Be refusing entry because of unfulfilled Oath, had Eugeen not been Lawful I get the feeling he'd probably not be inconvenienced in the after life. We see them refuse Eugene, but admit Roy. In principle I think Roy really did give it a shot, and as we know the TPTB has acknowledged that. The problem of course is that you aren't Lawful Good if you sorta abandon this type of thing, or at least not Roy.

It's a bit meta, but on some level I wonder if Roy is off the hook for the Oath-magic having died already. It gets a bit complicated in a system where death is not a binary condition. Because at Roy's death it should pass to Julia, but would it then revert back in the event he is raised? Seems a bit lawyerish that way.

On the whole I'm leaning towards that yes, Roy already did his part RE:Blood Oath as evidenced by TPTB. Then again, presumably you'd get a new hearing when you die again. Otherwise, you'd have carte blanche after being raised. On the other hand the process seemed a lot like being pre-approved.

I certainly agree Roy has done his part regarding the oath. I also agree Roy will continue to try and kill Xykon (he's made that very clear). But remember, what Roy is doing now is killing Xykon because Xykon needs killing. He doesn't give a hoot (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0293.html) about the blood oath anymore.

Eugene being the jerk that he is, probably thinks it's still about him. He may also be staying away because he thinks if he anger Roy again then Roy will tell him to stuff it and walk away. Roy's doing what he wants (trying to kill Xykon) even if not for the reason he wants, so odds are anything Eugene does at this point only makes things worse.

[Unisus]

Repeated liver failure? (Consider the number of scenes with Eugene in bars...) Heart attack, given how uptight he is/was? The possibilities are endless. Honestly, the "experimentation" angle never occurred to me, if anything I just thought "old age" and any of the above.

Old age definitely not, because after dying of old age, there's no way to be resurrected.

[Keltest]

Old age definitely not, because after dying of old age, there's no way to be resurrected.

"Old age" is very general. Most people who die of old age don't just have their organs spontaneously shut down but otherwise be perfectly functional, their age usually allows different problems in. Maybe he failed some saves because of his drained con score from age.

[DaggerPen]

"Old age" is very general. Most people who die of old age don't just have their organs spontaneously shut down but otherwise be perfectly functional, their age usually allows different problems in. Maybe he failed some saves because of his drained con score from age.

In real life, yes. In D&D - and the OOTS world - not so much. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?318170-So-what-about-Uncle-Myrtok/page2&p=16564021#post16564021)

[Keltest]

In real life, yes. In D&D - and the OOTS world - not so much. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?318170-So-what-about-Uncle-Myrtok/page2&p=16564021#post16564021)

Well sure. Im saying maybe he dies of old-age related causes a few times, and then his last one was the hourglass running out of sand. So he gets old, and his heart gives out, but a cleric can resurrect him from that. And then his liver explodes (because reasons) but he still hasn't run out the clock yet, so he can come back. And then the last one is the hourglass running out of sand.

[DaggerPen]

Well sure. Im saying maybe he dies of old-age related causes a few times, and then his last one was the hourglass running out of sand. So he gets old, and his heart gives out, but a cleric can resurrect him from that. And then his liver explodes (because reasons) but he still hasn't run out the clock yet, so he can come back. And then the last one is the hourglass running out of sand.

Aha!

I think that lab-related accidents are probably the more likely explanation, but yes, that would make some sense.

[Keltest]

Aha!

I think that lab-related accidents are probably the more likely explanation, but yes, that would make some sense.

I agree, but I would think that after the first lab-related death, Roy's mom wouldn't be especially inclined to pay money to find a cleric to try and raise him again. Especially if it happened after poor Eric.

[snowblizz]

Mind blowing question...

So why did Eugene not hear about the conditions of his oath the first time he died? Is there a resurrection grace period before the deva shows up or what? Because it kinda seems he didn't get the scoop on what his oath entailed before he died the last time. Or did he and that's whyhe went to Roy in college to pass the oath along?

[Katuko]

Mind blowing question...

So why did Eugene not hear about the conditions of his oath the first time he died? Is there a resurrection grace period before the deva shows up or what? Because it kinda seems he didn't get the scoop on what his oath entailed before he died the last time. Or did he and that's whyhe went to Roy in college to pass the oath along?

He must have known. The Deva's flashback shows Eugene abandon his quest to kill Xykon with the words "Eh, never mind, guys. It was a stupid oath anyway". If Eugene didn't care about Xykon himself anymore, then the only reason for him to pass the oath on to Roy was because he knew it would keep him out of the afterlife proper. He didn't even think Roy would be able to do it, and said so much. Eugene felt forced to tell Roy lest the whole thing would be forgotten forever (and Eugene - plus his family, he thought - stuck on a cloud forever).

Now, the Deva told Roy that the oath wasn't a problem, but when Eugene protested she said: "Your son is 'getting in' because he died in the process of attempting to fulfill that oath. [...] You, on the other hand, made a conscious decision to abandon your own oath years before your death."

Both quotes are from Comic 491 - Those Singing Lessons Cost Money, You Know (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0491.html)

Now, as far as I know Eugene died at least once while he was still trying to fulfill his oath. This may be wrong, someone correct me if it is. But I have a hunch that Roy can't just leave the oath at this point, because it is magically tied to Eugene's family and it has not yet been fulfilled or rendered moot. If Roy consciously decides to say "screw it" and abandon any attempt at stopping Xykon, he will likely be cursed to wander the clouds as well until someone/something else destroys Xykon.

[Kish]

The only explanation I can think of that doesn't have big holes in it, is that he got resurrected too quickly each time before.

"So, Mr. Greenhilt, your entrance interview--goodbye, Mr. Greenhilt!"

Roy, after all, didn't have his interview until the Battle for Azure City was over and his group had 1/2 fled and 1/3 gone into hiding.

Katuko's proposal, were it the case, wouldn't have resulted in, after Eugene's death of old age, an entrance interview which went the way it did; it would have been "Still didn't complete the Blood Oath, huh? Get comfortable on the cloud then" rather than, "Oh, I see this outstanding Blood Oath; did you finish that? I can't find it in our records..."

[Aedilred]

I agree, but I would think that after the first lab-related death, Roy's mom wouldn't be especially inclined to pay money to find a cleric to try and raise him again. Especially if it happened after poor Eric.

Myrtok would probably do it free of charge, or at least trust Eugene to pay him back necessary expenses after the raise. It's implied he did at least some of the previous raisings of Eugene during the conversation with Roy.

[Kish]

Also, what? :smallconfused: Sara loved him, presumably; that her spouse performed dangerous experiments was something to adapt to, not a reason to shrug, "Oh well, my husband got blowed up real good, his own stupid fault, let him stay dead."

(Protip: If you no longer care whether your spouse lives or dies, it's time for a divorce, or at the very least a lot of counseling.)

[multilis]

Major spoilers, do not read if you don't want to know end of story!

Eugene was supposed to deliver info to Roy next time he talked to him, so he is exploiting a loophole by not talking to him, otherwise he will be punished.

Eugene has given up on Roy as he now knows about Roy's other sister. Once long ago after one of his failures, Eugene got very drunk. Meanwhile a certain very large female had seen people in love and wished to experience love herself. Her wish came true, Eugene came by and she shared love with him in a way that has never been experienced in that universe before and may never again.

Long time later the female gave birth. The child looked mostly like mother, but because part human it could talk like father. Eugene has now discovered this child and thinks it is much better option to kill X than Roy, but first he has to find a way to contact his child... :mitd:

Of course story will end with :mitd: killing :redcloak: for betraying :xykon:, then kill :xykon: for Eugene, then wishing for :miko: to return from dead and everyone will live happily ever after (except :belkar: who was hoping to marry :miko: in the afterlife)

[Alias]

Twisted. Most twisted.

[Morquard]

Mind blowing question...

So why did Eugene not hear about the conditions of his oath the first time he died? Is there a resurrection grace period before the deva shows up or what?
Quite possible.

Remember that in #498 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0498.html) he thought that maybe 12 hours since his death have passed, while it in fact was three and a half months!!

It's quite possible the 5 minute argument with Eugene before the Deva came along was actually more like a week of yelling at each other.

Another possibility is of course that the Deva use Divination to figure out when someone is gonna be resurrected and knew it's gonna be a while in Roy's case.

[Keltest]

Also, what? :smallconfused: Sara loved him, presumably; that her spouse performed dangerous experiments was something to adapt to, not a reason to shrug, "Oh well, my husband got blowed up real good, his own stupid fault, let him stay dead."

(Protip: If you no longer care whether your spouse lives or dies, it's time for a divorce, or at the very least a lot of counseling.)

There comes a point where ANYONE would go "enough is enough, im not enabling you anymore. Find your own rez if it happens again." And I suspect that point would come significantly sooner when the experimenter isn't the only one getting hurt (he did kill Eric after all, intentionally or not).


Quite possible.

Remember that in #498 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0498.html) he thought that maybe 12 hours since his death have passed, while it in fact was three and a half months!!

It's quite possible the 5 minute argument with Eugene before the Deva came along was actually more like a week of yelling at each other.

Another possibility is of course that the Deva use Divination to figure out when someone is gonna be resurrected and knew it's gonna be a while in Roy's case.

Unlikely. While It is entirely possible to get engrossed in an activity that actually does consume that much time and not notice it (IE Roy playing with the blocks), I think anyone would find it difficult to maintain an argument for a week without making any ground, whether or not the consciously realize it was a week passing.

[SoC175]

There comes a point where ANYONE would go "enough is enough, im not enabling you anymore. Find your own rez if it happens again." And I suspect that point would come significantly sooner when the experimenter isn't the only one getting hurt (he did kill Eric after all, intentionally or not).Well, finding your own rez is much less of a problem when one of your pals happens to be a high level cleric. With uncle Myrtok around, it certainly wasn't much of a hassle at all

[Morquard]

Unlikely. While It is entirely possible to get engrossed in an activity that actually does consume that much time and not notice it (IE Roy playing with the blocks), I think anyone would find it difficult to maintain an argument for a week without making any ground, whether or not the consciously realize it was a week passing.
I also find it hard to believe to do any kind of stuff for 3 and a half MONTHS and think it was only half a DAY.

But that is clearly possible up there, and Roy's perception is not adjusted to it yet, so I don't think its that unlikely. He doesn't get tired, he doesn't have to stop to breathe, he doesn't get a sore throat or his feet start hurting from standing too long, or any of the million other tiny things...

[Keltest]

I also find it hard to believe to do any kind of stuff for 3 and a half MONTHS and think it was only half a DAY.

But that is clearly possible up there, and Roy's perception is not adjusted to it yet, so I don't think its that unlikely. He doesn't get tired, he doesn't have to stop to breathe, he doesn't get a sore throat or his feet start hurting from standing too long, or any of the million other tiny things...

Exactly. With infinite blocks (or at least as many as they seem to have had) and a near lifetime's worth of catching up to do, and nothing else to make them stop, the only thing distracting Roy would be his desire to do something else, and playing with Eric was something he really wanted to do.

Arguing for a week on the other hand runs into the problem of what do you even say? Even if you allow for rehashing of different arguments multiple times, most people will at least recognize a pattern fairly quickly and try something else.

[Morquard]

Ok, they did mention the blocks, but I don't think that means he spend 3.49999 of those 3.5 months doing that. He rebuilt the block castle 34 times. So unless he spend 3 days on every attempt, that math doesn't work out. A couple of weeks yes sure. But not all the time. He probably sat in the boat with Horace for days.
He climbed that mountain in what he thought a few hours, but apparently it was weeks.
His mom spent 8 weeks making love when she arrived.
Granted that last one apparently was an enjoyable exercise, but the mountain probably was not.

And even if it wasn't a week and just 5 hours or a day, that might be enough to realise "Oh, he's not getting rezzed the moment the fight was over, let's do that interview", or Eugene was usually just resurrected fast enough.

Or the Deva never bothered with it, because they looked at the file saw the big fat "Unfullfilled blood oath" stamp there, and figured "lets wait till he's really dead, maybe he goes back to it and kills Xykon after all"

[DaggerPen]

It's also possible that the interview is just really long. Without giving too many SOD spoilers, he was cleared to go in before they told him about the Blood Oath, and he had a fairly long life. I could see the admissions interview usually going on for hours or even a day to review everything, and by that time he'd have usually been rezzed. Add waiting time to that, and I could easily see him getting called out mid-interview.

They could also just have a waiting time policy for adventurers with high level cleric friends, because devas or not, they have too much administrative stuff to wade through to go through a lengthy interview with a guy who'll be out of here by morning.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

One thing that could have happened is similar to what happened to Roy here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html). Eugene ignored what the Deva was saying and got out of there ASAP.

[Morquard]

One thing that could have happened is similar to what happened to Roy here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0664.html). Eugene ignored what the Deva was saying and got out of there ASAP.

I'm not quite following what you're saying. On the very page you quoted it's shown that Eugene knew what had happened.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm not quite following what you're saying. On the very page you quoted it's shown that Eugene knew what had happened.

I meant that Eugene would have done something similar to what Roy did in that scene.

[Morquard]

I meant that Eugene would have done something similar to what Roy did in that scene.

Getting a ride on the resurrection-limo?

Or blowing the Deva off? Roy misunderstood her, thought she was talking about Belkar and figured that stuff takes care of itself. Eugene knows exactly what it's about. See last panel.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Getting a ride on the resurrection-limo?

Or blowing the Deva off? Roy misunderstood her, thought she was talking about Belkar and figured that stuff takes care of itself. Eugene knows exactly what it's about. See last panel.

Both, in a way. Because Eugene would be getting resurrected, he would be getting on the limo very soon and would be ignoring the Deva similar to how Roy did. The main problem for Roy wasn't that he misunderstood but that he didn't bother to listen and actually hear what she was saying.

[Morquard]

Except Eugene died of old age, and there's no coming back from that. I've no idea where you're taking that idea from, there's nothing at all in the comic to support it. And again. Eugene did listen. He knows what the Deva said. He knows what V did. He didn't care. He burned the report, because he agreed with V and rooted for him.

[factotum]

I think Jaxzan is saying that on the numerous occasions that Eugene died and *was* resurrected, it happened so fast that he possibly went rushing off before the whole Blood Oath thing came up, just as Roy had to rush off before the deva got the chance to inform him of V's actions? What Eugene did with the information given him by the deva isn't actually relevant.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Except Eugene died of old age, and there's no coming back from that. I've no idea where you're taking that idea from, there's nothing at all in the comic to support it. And again. Eugene did listen. He knows what the Deva said. He knows what V did. He didn't care. He burned the report, because he agreed with V and rooted for him.


I think Jaxzan is saying that on the numerous occasions that Eugene died and *was* resurrected, it happened so fast that he possibly went rushing off before the whole Blood Oath thing came up, just as Roy had to rush off before the deva got the chance to inform him of V's actions? What Eugene did with the information given him by the deva isn't actually relevant.

Yes, what factotum is saying is exactly my point. I don't understand what it was that I was saying that was confusing you.

[Keltest]

Yes, what factotum is saying is exactly my point. I don't understand what it was that I was saying that was confusing you.

Well, you sort of jumped into the topic without announcing what, exactly, he wasn't knowing.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, you sort of jumped into the topic without announcing what, exactly, he wasn't knowing.

Okay, good point. Next time I say something like this I will clarify what "thing" I am referring too.

[DaggerPen]

This is one of the most impressive chains of miscommunication I've seen on this board.

[Gnoman]

Unlikely. While It is entirely possible to get engrossed in an activity that actually does consume that much time and not notice it (IE Roy playing with the blocks), I think anyone would find it difficult to maintain an argument for a week without making any ground, whether or not the consciously realize it was a week passing.

Roy's resented his father for at least 18 years, ever since his brother died. Ever since he decided to become a Fighter, he's been putting up with constant condecension and belittling from his father. Not only that, but right before the old man died, he showed up and saddled Roy with a soul-binding oath that Eugene had abandoned years ago. Now Roy's in a position to tell his father exactly what he thinks of him, with no fatigue, no sore throat, not even running out of breath. With all that resentment bottled up, I find it far from unlikely for the argument to last a month, let alone a week.