PDA

View Full Version : You can't win, Thief. I've fought this battle a million times in my head. [Feat]



Dhavaer
2007-03-07, 02:24 AM
Also, Modern, but that didn't fit in the title line.

Fractactical Genius
Prequisites: Int 17, Exploit Weakness Talent, Plan Talent, Knowledge (behavioural sciences) 18, Knowledge (tactics) 18
Benefits: As a move action, you may attempt to predict your opponents' next moves. Make an Intelligence check (DC 10 + number of opponents). If the check is successful, you gain a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls and Defence. For every 5 point by which you exceed the DC, increase this bonus by 1. The bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence bonus, or until the encounter ends.

It looks a little underpowered to me. Any ideas on boosting it up?

martyboy74
2007-03-07, 08:07 AM
Make it a swift action? You still get the once per round limit.

Also, add Hadoken.

Holocron Coder
2007-03-07, 09:40 AM
Seconding the swift action. With such specific (and relatively high) prereqs, it needs a boost. Perhaps +2 base, with +1/5 over?

Solaris
2007-03-07, 09:48 AM
Aye. Those prereqs are amazingly high for such a low benefit. Knowledge skills more represent theoretical knowledge than practical knowledge; I suggest adding a Sense Motive prerequisite in there, too. You can know all there is to know about behavioral sciences and tactics, but without the ability to put it into use you got nothin' but some good BS (Ah, therapists, is there anything you can do?).
I third that 'make it a swift action' motion. If swift actions aren't core, then call it a free action you can only perform once per round.

Logic
2007-03-07, 10:00 AM
Fractactical Genius
Prequisites: Int 17, Exploit Weakness Talent, Plan Talent, Knowledge (behavioural sciences) 12, Knowledge (tactics) 15, Sense Motive 18
Benefits: As a swift action, you may attempt to predict your opponents' next moves. Make an Intelligence check (DC 10 + number of opponents). If the check is successful, you gain a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls and Defence. For every 5 point by which you exceed the DC, increase this bonus by 1. The bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence bonus, or until the encounter ends.

The way I would do this feat, with my changes in teal.

Solaris
2007-03-07, 10:07 AM
Double digit skill requirements for a +1 bonus (on average - if it's one opponent and you have an INT of 18, your average bonus is almost +2) is still too high. By the time you can actually get it, it's a big 'so what?' thing.

Fractactical Genius
Prequisites: Int 17, Exploit Weakness Talent, Plan Talent, Knowledge (behavioural sciences) 9, Knowledge (tactics) 6, Sense Motive 9
Benefits: As a swift action, you may attempt to predict your opponents' next moves. Make an Intelligence check (DC 10 + number of opponents). If the check is successful, you gain a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls and Defence. For every 5 point by which you exceed the DC, increase this bonus by 1. The bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence bonus, or until the encounter ends.

The way I would do this feat, with my changes in blue. Yes, yes I did just copy-paste from Logic's post. His changes are still in teal.

Logic
2007-03-07, 10:16 AM
I thought that the abilities were a little low for the requirements, but it does seem like it is intended for the BBEG rather than every smart hero in the party. And looking at the likely-hood of getting that bonus seems a little slim, except vs a small group. A character has an even 50-50 chance of getting a +1 bonus vs 3 characters assuming he is at the minimum Intelligence for the feat. I am putting some more thought into it, probably going to alter the intelligence check as well...

EDIT:

Fractactical Genius
Prequisites: Int 17, Exploit Weakness Talent, Plan Talent, Knowledge (behavioural sciences) 9, Knowledge (tactics) 6, Sense Motive 9
Benefits: As a swift action, you may attempt to predict your opponents' next moves. Make a character level check that you may add your intelligence modifier to (DC 15 + number of opponents). If the check is successful, you gain a +1 insight bonus to attack rolls and Defence. For every 5 point by which you exceed the DC, increase this bonus by 1. The bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence bonus, or until the encounter ends.

First Edit is Teal
Solaris Edit is Blue
Third Edit is in Green.
This I think works well, but now it may be too powerful, or it may have to go back to being a move action.

Altair_the_Vexed
2007-03-07, 10:22 AM
What are these "Talent" things, and what supplement did they spring from?

Logic
2007-03-07, 10:23 AM
D20 modern. They are the class features of all the base classes. Each class having a set that is unique to it.

Altair_the_Vexed
2007-03-07, 11:32 AM
So can this Feat not be employed in D&D?

Logic
2007-03-07, 11:36 AM
Not as it is currently written.

Holocron Coder
2007-03-07, 11:46 AM
Actually, there's been very little change at the minimum level. A Character Level check would basically amount to 1d20 + CL + Int mod, which with the minimum level (I think it is 6, assuming all skills are class skills) is 1d20+6+3. With 3 opponents, thats about a 45% failure rate.

At max level (Assuming 20, with the minimum Intelligence), its 1d20+20+3. Even with a roll of 1, they can get the bonus against 9 opponents.

I'd drop the level check. It scales badly, since the level of the opponents isn't brought into account along with introducing it on the player's side (fighting 9 1st level mobs is the same as 9 deities).

Closet_Skeleton
2007-03-07, 11:51 AM
So can this Feat not be employed in D&D?

Not without changing the prerequisites. Some talents have DnD analogues but Exploit Weakeneses and Plan don't.

Solaris
2007-03-07, 01:05 PM
Could make it against a player-selected number of opponents and have the GM not tell the player the DC. Just add their CR instead of a straight +1/opponent.

Dhavaer
2007-03-07, 05:36 PM
Fractactical Genius
Prequisites: Int 17, Exploit Weakness Talent, Plan Talent, Knowledge (tactics) 18, Sense Motive 18
Benefits: You may use your Exploit Weakness talent as a swift action, and it allows you to replace you Dexterity modifier to Defence with your Intelligence.
Your Plan talent lasts a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence bonus. You gain a +4 bonus on checks to use your Plan talent. The bonus from your Plan talent also applies to Defence and to rolls resisting attempts to Trip, Disarm or Bull Rush. You may use your Plan talent as a swift or move action while in combat, but it does not affect your allies if you do so.

Better?

Logic
2007-03-07, 08:58 PM
Fractactical Genius
Prequisites: Int 17, Exploit Weakness Talent, Plan Talent, Knowledge (tactics) 18, Sense Motive 18
Benefits: You may use your Exploit Weakness talent as a swift action, and it allows you to replace you Dexterity modifier to Defence with your Intelligence.
Your Plan talent lasts a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence bonus or 3, whichever is higher. You gain a +4 bonus on checks to use your Plan talent. The bonus from your Plan talent also applies to Defence and to rolls resisting attempts to Trip, Disarm or Bull Rush. You may use your Plan talent as a swift or move action while in combat, but it does not affect your allies if you do so.

Better?
The red part is redundant, as you have an intelligence bonus of at least 3 to have access to this feat, unless you get intelligence drained, which, if I remember correctly, you lose access to the feat. The rest works quite well. I like the new version.

Dhavaer
2007-03-07, 10:16 PM
Removed redundant text.

ArmorArmadillo
2007-03-07, 10:54 PM
Having Int 17 as a pre-req for any combat based ability seems wrong, as it is exceedingly rare for any sort of combat build to have that high of a bonus.

Dhavaer
2007-03-08, 12:02 AM
Having Int 17 as a pre-req for any combat based ability seems wrong, as it is exceedingly rare for any sort of combat build to have that high of a bonus.

The feat requires two talents that require an Intelligence check, one of which has an effect directly tied to Intelligence. Anyone getting this feat will probably have a very high Int.

Holocron Coder
2007-03-08, 12:55 AM
It's part of the Smart Hero progression (I believe), which is Int-based, so it fits well even as a combat feat.

Icewalker
2007-03-08, 02:17 AM
Nice. I don't know what half of those prereqs are, but I like it, although I can certainly tell it is hard to get. I'm not sure what those Plan Talent bonuses do, either. Still, I like the look of it...

Dhavaer
2007-03-08, 05:27 AM
Nice. I don't know what half of those prereqs are, but I like it, although I can certainly tell it is hard to get. I'm not sure what those Plan Talent bonuses do, either. Still, I like the look of it...

The Plan talent gives a bonus to attack rolls and skill checks with a successful Int + level check.

nivek1234
2007-03-08, 12:43 PM
Looks nice.

How difficult do you think a variation on the original plan (roll of CL + INT vs DC: 10 + CR) would be to convert to DnD? I'm not familiar with d20 Modern, but there seem to be some similarities. I'm thinking that this matches well with a rogue's feats.

So change:
Exploit weakness with some required number of sneak attacks (or the like for similar skills)
Plan with combat expertise
Knowledge (tactics) with ???

What do you think?

Dhavaer
2007-03-08, 02:07 PM
The only thing that would really match Exploit Weakness that I can think of is Carmendine Monk (Champions of Valor) and Kung-fu Genius (Dragon Compendium).
I've never seen anything that even resembles Plan.
D&D lets you make new Knowledge skills, so you could put Behavioural Sciences and Tactics straight in.

Logic
2007-03-08, 02:15 PM
Although, I think that behavioral sciences would be a bit to advanced for a culture of that technology level to develop it.
Plan could be added to a DnD game as a feat, but it might take a little bit of tweaking to get to work for DnD.

Dhavaer
2007-03-09, 12:05 AM
It's part of the Smart Hero progression (I believe), which is Int-based, so it fits well even as a combat feat.

If you're using d20 Future, you don't actually need Smart Hero to get the feat, as you can get the pre-reqs via Smart Plus feats. It's not very useful without Smart levels, though, unless you have a supremely high Int.