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DiBastet
2014-08-21, 01:30 PM
The Artificer (of Alancia)

http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1368/86/1368865551862.jpg

I got exactly what we need. Give me a minute. No, I mean it. Exactly one minute.

Now on the DMs Guild (http://www.dmsguild.com/product/170903/The-Artificer-of-Alancia)!

Following many (and I mean many) email suggestions, I made the Artificer of Alancia available online as a pdf. As per the DMs Guild agreement, I'm allowed to keep a short preview here. Here you'll find the class up to level 6, the level you gain the 2nd vocation feature and enough for an E6 game.

The final product is just 1$. All the support I got on email, PM and by people creating an account just to praise is enough, so no need to "charge" more than that. The Artificer's additional material will also be available on the DMs Guild.



Intro

Most of my players enjoy some steampunk, so much that even when we play more or less pure fantasy they still like seeing some anacronic technology here and there, used as an exotic spice. Because of this, classes like the Artificer were always loved by my players, and I knew that once 5e was launched I would have to port in our own Artificer.

This Artificer isn't ye old Eberron one, the PF version of our artificer is a mix between the PF Alchemist, an Engineer from the 3.5 homebrew section (found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?114229-Base-Class-The-Engineer-3-5-PEACH)), and other gadgeteer and tinker classes from all around (you know, bits from here and there). Converting it to 5e was a little hard because the original was built like the rogue, full of talents that you can choose. I tried to take the most iconic talent trees and turn them into the four subclasses, while leaving some of the most neutral ones as options like the sorcerer's metamagic options.

In any case, I hope you enjoy.





Test




Level
Prof
Special
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
Inventions, Vocation
2










2nd
+2
Inovation, Artificer's Knowledge
3










3rd
+2

4
2









4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
4
3









5th
+3

4
3
2








6th
+3
Vocation Feature
4
3
3










Class Features

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per Artificer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8+ your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Artificer level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: Two artisan’s tools of your choice
Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, Nature, and Perception.

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
• (a) a dungeoneer’s pack or (b) an explorer's pack
• (a) a melee simple weapon or (b) a crossbow and a case of 20 bolts
• Leather armor and a set of artisan’s tools


Inventions
You can create advanced pieces of technology, capable of amazing feats, called inventions. Each invention you create emulates the effects of a spell.

Gadgets
At 1st level, you know the designs for three gadgets of your choice. A Gadget is a 0-level invention, and can be activated repeatedly. Gadgets in the form of equipment never occupy significant space on the user. You learn one additional Gadget design at levels 4 and 10.

Design Book
At 1st level, you have a design book containing designs for six 1st-level inventions of your choice.

Building Inventions
No matter how many designs you hold, there is a limit to the number of designs you can implement in a day. The Artificer table shows how many invention slots you have to create inventions of 1st level or higher. You regain all expended invention slots when you finish a long rest.
You build inventions from your design book, a process which takes 1 minute of work. To do so, expend a slot of the inventions level or higher. Building inventions also consumes bulk materials, but the cost of these materials is insignificant; comparable to the valueless material components of most spells.
Inventions remain potent for 1 day before becoming inert. In addition, your inventions are keyed to you and immediately become inert if they leave your possession, reactivating as soon as they return to your keeping. An Artificer cannot normally pass out their Inventions for allies to use (but see the “Simple Science” Discovery below).
Many Artificers build several Inventions at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it's not uncommon for an Artificer to keep some (or even all) of their daily Invention slots open so that they can build Inventions in the field as needed.

Types of Inventions
Different inventions are constructed in different ways.
Equipment. Beneficial inventions with a range of self or touch and a duration greater than 1 round must be constructed as Equipment. These inventions can be made as bracers, gloves, shoulders, belts, boots, helmets, or backpacks. They are always cumbersome, and prevent the placement of other items in the space that they occupy, including magic items. They can be activated at any time that they are worn, but you must be one of the targets, if any.
Devices. Other inventions are constructed as Devices. These inventions are hand-held items that must be retrieved before use.

Using Inventions
Your inventions are so complex that only you are able to operate them. You can activate your inventions by performing a Use Item action, although you do so using the casting time of the emulated spell. When you do, the invention creates an effect equivalent to the spell if it were cast at the level of the expended invention slot. If the spell requires a costly material component, that component must also be expended during the activation of the invention. Inventions require no concentration to keep, even if the effect has a duration of Concentration; however, you can only keep one of these inventions active at a time, and you can’t concentrate on a spell during that period.
Intelligence is the ability you use to activate inventions, so you use your Intelligence whenever an effect refers to your spellcasting ability.

Invention save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier
Invention attack modifier = 1d20 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier

Learning Designs of 1st Level or Higher
At each new Artificer level, they gain two new Designs of any level that they can create. An Artificer can also add Designs to their Design Book, whether by learning them from another Artificer or by deciphering them from another Design Book. The cost of this transcription process is 50gp and 2 hours per level of the Design.
An Artificer can also attempt to study a Wizard's spellbook to learn any Design that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains; however, this requires 400gp and 8 hours per spell level, as well as a successful Arcane (Int) skill check. The DC for this check equals 8 + twice the level of the spell, and is made before expending any costs. The assistance of the spellbook’s Wizard grants Advantage on this check.


Vocation
At 1st level, you choose a vocation that expresses your preferred style of creation. Choose Alchemist, Grenadier, Gunsmith, or Machinist, all detailed at the end of the class description. The vocation you choose grants you features at 1st, 6th, 14th, and 18th level.

Innovation
At 2nd level, you tap into a font of creativity and insight from within yourself, represented by Innovation Points. You have an amount of Innovation Points equal to your Artificer level, which you use to achieve a variety of special effects. You regain all spent Innovation Points when you finish a long rest.

Artificer’s Knowledge
If the Artificer studies a tool for 1 minute and spends 1 Innovation Point he becomes proficient in that Tool until he uses this ability again or finishes a long rest.

Discovery
The Artificer learns new techniques and improvements to his skills. At 2nd level you gain two of the following Discovery options of your choice. You gain another two at 10th and 17th level. Some Discoveries require Innovation Points to be used.
Efficient Climber
You create a climbing apparatus that grants you a climbing speed equal to your land speed, and allows you to climb with both hands free.
Efficient Crafter
You can craft five times faster than normal.
Efficient Swimmer
You create swimming gear that grants you a swimming speed equal to your land speed, and allows you to hold your breath ten times longer.
Fast Trigger
When you activate an invention with a casting time of 1 action, if it only targets yourself, you can spend 1 innovation point to activate it as a bonus action.
First Aid Techniques
If you or any friendly creatures who are under your care regain hit points at the end of a short rest, each of these creatures regain extra Hit Points equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Mechanical Calculator
You created a device full of buttons and levers that allow you to make all kinds of calculations. The device works as an abacus and compass, and also measures height, temperature and depth. As an action and by spending 1 Innovation you can also try to calculate the DC of any task; make an appropriate skill check (using Intelligence in place of the usual attribute) with a DC of 15. If successful, the character measures the probability of success, while the GM tells the player the DC.
Medic
As an action you can create and use Inventions that heal HP, or cure conditions/exhaustion/diseases/poisons.
Overcharge
When you activate an Invention that has a duration longer than 1 minute, you can spend 1 Innovation Point to double its duration, to a maximum of 24 hours.
Repairs
When you create Inventions that heal HP, you can modify them to work on constructs and objects. These inventions no longer have an effect on living creatures.
Routine Invention
You can create Inventions with the Ritual tag as Routines. A Routine doesn’t cost an Invention slot, but the creation time increases by 30 minutes and you have to spend 1 Innovation Point to build it.
Simple Machine
With a minute of work and 1 Innovation Point you can create a mechanical device that executes a single simple programmed action, like an auto bakecaker or weightlifter. The machine as the statistics of a Medium animated object, except that it can’t attack and it has one of your skill of tool proficiencies, and remains active for 10 minutes before critically malfunctioning. You can only program one command, something that an Unseen Servant could reasonably do. Alternatively you can build a sturdier construct with 1 hour of work and 500gp. The sturdier construct remains active for 24 hours, and you or any other Artificer can extend this duration each day by spending 10 minutes and 1 Innovation Point making minor repairs and modifications. After one year of continuous activation, the Simple Construct’s schematic has been perfected and it becomes permanent. A perfected machine can be rebuilt with 1 hour of work and 500gp, and retains its permanency.
Simple Science
Your Inventions aren’t exactly rocket science, and other creatures can use your beneficial Inventions. Each creature can have only one Invention with a duration of Concentration active at the same time.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1.




Vocations



Alchemist

https://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/84587.jpg
Sideboob is essential

Bonus Proficiency
You gain proficiency with the Alchemist Kit.

Tonic
At 1st level you know how to make a new type of invention, Tonics, which are treated like devices. Only beneficial inventions with a range of self or touch can be made as Tonics.
Additionally, you can prepare a number of Tonic designs equal to your Intelligence modifier + your artificer level (minimum 1 design). You can create these prepared tonics with a single action rather than 1 minute, and anyone can use them. You can change your list of prepared Tonic designs when you finish a long rest.

Mutagen
Starting at 6th level, with 1 minute of work and 1 Innovation point you can create a special potion that works only for a single creature. Choose a creature and an ability score; when the target creature drinks the mutagen, the potion grants the effects of the Enhance Ability spell for the chosen ability, but also grants disadvantage on checks for the linked ability. The ability links are Strength-Intelligence, Dexterity-Wisdom, and Constitution-Charisma. Both effects last 1 hour per artificer level.



Grenadier

http://cdn-images.9cloud.us/157/piccit_artificer_by_thraen_1815601098.jpg
Ew, you're gonna hate this...

Bonus Proficiency
You gain proficiency with the Gunsmith Kit and with explosives.

Bomb
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to create a new type of invention, Bombs. Only harmful inventions with an area of effect can be made as Bombs, which are thrown weapons with a maximum range of 60ft. They create their effect upon the point of impact. If you hit the target it receives disadvantage on the saving throw against the bomb effect, if any; if you miss, the bomb explodes in a corner of the target’s space.
Additionally, you can prepare a number of Bomb designs equal to your Intelligence modifier + your artificer level (minimum 1 design). You can create these prepared Bombs with a single action rather than 1 minute. You can change your list of prepared Bomb designs when you finish a long rest.

Controlled Blast
Starting at 6th level, by spending 1 Innovation Point when you use a Bomb, you can choose a number of creatures that you can see equal to your Proficiency. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the Bomb, and they take no damage if they would normally take half damage on a successful save.



Gunsmith

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-T4DCGjPzuWU/UGu_PsGa6DI/AAAAAAAACt8/9QHVz2XAzPg/s1600/gunmage_IronKingdoms.jpg
Boom... headshot

Bonus Proficiency
You gain proficiency with the Gunsmith Kit and with firearms.

Prototype Gun
At 1st level, with 8 hours of work you can modify a firearm with which you are proficient into a prototype gun. A prototype gun works like a normal firearm, but loses the Reload property, only artificers with the Gunsmith vocation are proficient in it’s use, and you can use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Dexterity modifier on attack and damage rolls with it.

Special Ammo
Also at 1st level, you know how to create a new type of invention, Special Ammo. Only harmful inventions that deal damage or have areas of effect can be built as Special Ammo. They must be fired from a prototype gun rather than activated normally. When you do, use the weapon’s long range in place of the invention’s normal range.

Elemental Ammo
Starting at 6th level, with a bonus action and 1 innovation point you can infuse a prototype gun with acid, cold, electricity, fire, or thunder for 1 minute or until you use this ability again. While Elemental Amo is active, the gun’s weapon attacks deal damage of the chosen type and it deals an additional 1d6 damage of the same type. That additional damage increases to 2d6 at 11th level and 3d6 at 17th level.




Machinist

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/717/928/e83320d9e42677ab749a12fb4618a7bb_large.jpg?1372834 170
Well, me and THIS army, of course

Bonus Proficiency
You gain proficiency with medium armor and the Engineering Kit.

Mechanical Armor
With 8 hours of work you can modify an armor that you’re proficient into a Mechanical Armor. A Mechanical Armor works like a normal armor, but it weights 50% more, always imposes Disadvantage on Stealth checks, prohibit the user from wearing Equipment inventions, and only artificers with the Machinist vocation are proficient in their use. While wearing mechanical armor you can use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength modifier for all purposes, and you gain a Mechanical Slam attack that you are proficient in. This attack deals 1d8 bludgeoning damage.

Armor Upgrades
Also at 1st level, you can integrate inventions into your armor as Armor Upgrades. Only inventions with a range of self or touch can be armor upgrades. Armor upgrades expend your invention slots without being built, but you must be the only target.
Prepare a number of Armor Upgrades designs equal to your Intelligence modifier + your artificer level (minimum 1 upgrade). You can change your list of Armor Upgrade designs when you finish a long rest.

Mechanical Expertise
Starting at 6th level, you can use the two following abilities:
-Mechanical Uppercut: Immediately after you take the Attack action or your turn, you can spend 1 Innovation Point to make one Mechanical Slam attack as a bonus action.
-Thrusters: You can spend 1 Innovation point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and your jump distance is doubled for the turn.



The Artificer Invention List
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100309214915/marvel_dc/images/e/eb/Batman_Green_Lantern_001.jpg
Artificer of Alancia with freeform spell list, according to some few DMs

To put it simply, the Artificer was created with the intention that his invention list is made up from all spells from the Cleric, Druid and Wizard list, except spells involving directly divine forces, and with additional exceptions left for each individual DM according to what Artificers are supposed to be on each setting.


OMG OP

While that may sound strange, it's logical once you understand that the Artificer must write the inventions to his Design Book and can't access most of his inventions on the fly. He either has to learn inventions from other artificers (or reverse engineer them from wizard's spellbooks), research them by himself or make do with the two free ones he learns each level. The artificer should be able to focus on one aspect, like damage, battlefield control, buffing, healing, or utility inventions, while still being able to branch out if needed; in that aspect his strength is that even if he specializes in a certain function (let's say party healer) he still retains the ability to being a generalist if needed.

I make no assumptions as to what kind of spells should be allowed; in some setting inventions that deal with angels and fiends make no sense, while on others "The Power of SCIENCE compels you" is a great explanation. Of course there are spells that shouldn't be allowed, but I follow 5e's trend and leave this power to each individual GM. Maybe in his setting only wizard spells + cure wounds; maybe in that other setting anything that doesn't specifically uses religions or the force of the divine; maybe on another anything that uses Radiant or Necrotic damage is out.

There's also another reason why a default list isn't presented. This class, the whole class, was one of the first 5e homebrew on this site, and at the time I made no assumption how the spell lists of various casters would be expanded, or even if they even would be. By leaving the spell lists "open", if two months passed and WotC released some great new spells any of these classes players could just use them instead of coming back here to ask "Hey DiegoBastet, could you update the spell list with the spells from , pretty please?".


"But DiegoBastet my man, I get you, I do bro. But I have to convince my GM that homebrew doesn't suck and when I told him about the freeform spell list he said nasty things to me in a very angry tone, and told me to shove the Artificer where the sun doesn't shine in Alancia. He won't accept it without a spell list. Please help me."

Sigh. Well, if anyone else have some case like that, this is the spell list I originally put for my games. I think it's generic enough with a wide selection and following a certain theme.

Gadgets
Acid Splash
Blade Ward
Dancing Lights
Fire Bolt
Friends
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Message
Minor Illusion
Poison Spray
Ray of Frost
Shocking Grasp
Spare the Dying
Thorn Whip
True Strike

1st level Inventions
Alarm
Bane
Burning Hands
Charm Person
Comprehend Languages
Create or Destroy Water
Cure Wounds
Detect Magic
Detect Poison and Disease
Disguise Self
Dissonant Whispers
Expeditious Retreat
Faerie Fire
False Life
Feather Fall
Fog Cloud
Goodberry
Grease
Guiding Bolt
Hail of Thorns
Hideous Laughter
Inflict Wounds
Jump
Longstrider
Magic Missile
Purify Food and Drink
Shield
Silent Image
Sleep
Thunderwave
Witch Bolt

2nd level Inventions
Aid
Alter Self
Arcane Lock
Augury
Blindness/Deafness
Calm Emotions
Continual Flame
Darkness
Darkvision
Detect Thoughts
Enhance Ability
Enlarge/Reduce
Entrall
Gentle Repose
Gust of Wind
Heat Metal
Hold Person
Invisibility
Knock
Lesser Restoration
Levitate
Magic Mouth
Melf's Acid Arrow
Mirror Image
Misty Step
Protection from Poison
Scorching Ray
See Invisibility
Shatter
Silence
Spider Climb
Suggestion
Web

3rd level Inventions
Clairvoyance
Create Food and Water
Daylight
Dispel Magic
Elemental Weapon
Fear
Feign Death
Fireball
Fly
Haste
Hypnotic Pattern
Lightning Bolt
Magic Circle
Major Image
Nondetection
Plant Growth
Protection from Energy
Revivify
Sending
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Tongues
Water Breathing
Wind Wall



Using Inventions

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090324181938/forgottenrealms/images/3/36/Techsmith.jpg
[I]May I inquire what the [email protected]$k are you doing on my arm, master?

While it may seem that creating and using an invention is a whole new system, actually the process is just like preparing and casting a spell, since Inventions emulate their effects. In fact the system mostly resembles creating and using a scroll. To build and use an invention, the Artificer follows these steps.

1 - Knows the Design: The spell that he wants to emulate in an invention must be written in his design book.

2 - Build the Invention: The Artificer spends a daily Invention exactly like a spellcaster casting a spell does. He spends one minute building it. After that the Invention is ready for use, and he may use it now or store it for later. Once built the invention remains ready for use until the end of the Artificer’s next long rest.

Optional: 3 - Storing: Inventions usually are handheld items, and the Artificer stores them exactly like any other item. However, if the emulated spell is beneficial, with a range of Touch or Self, and a duration longer than 1 round, it’s an Equipment. Equipments may be made as bracers, gloves, shoulders, belts, boots, helmets or backpacks, are always cumbersome and usually prevent the use of other items in the space they occupy. You can’t choose to build spells that don’t fit the above criteria as Equipment, and you can’t build spells that do as normal Inventions.

Optional: 4 - Ready: If the Invention is stored the Artificer must draw it like any other item before using it (usually drawing an item takes no action). Obviously if the Invention is an Equipment and he’s already wearing it, then he doesn’t need to draw it.

5 - Use the Invention: Using an Invention takes one Action, unless the original casting time is longer. If the Invention is an Equipment it uses the spell’s normal casting time, but it must target the Artificer or have him as one of the targets. Only the Artificer may activate the Invention. Beneficial Inventions aren’t considered magical effects (so they can’t be dispelled and work on anti-magic zones). Once used the Invention is spent and can’t be used again.


Example - Normal Invention: An Artificer builds a Cure Wounds Invention. He spends a whole minute building it. After that he can store his invention for later or use right now.
Example - Normal Invention: An Artificer builds a Burning Hands Invention. The invention works like the spell, with a 15ft cone starting in his space.
Example - Equipment Invention: An Artificer builds a Mage Armor Invention. Mage Armor is a beneficial spell with a range of Touch and a duration longer than 1 round, so it must be built as a cumbersome Equipment. Since it’s an Equipment the Artificer has to wear it before he can activate it (in this case let’s say he built it as heavy bracers) and he must include himself among the targets; mage armor has only one target so he can only target himself with his Quantum Forcefield Bracers.


The Subclass “Trick”
The above is true for every Artificer’s Inventions, but each subclass has a nice ability to build their signature inventions in a different and improved way. The following are the step-by-step guides of each subclass.

Alchemist: The Alchemist can build Tonics from beneficial spells with a range of Self or Touch. Tonics are used as normal Inventions. He can also “prepare” a number of inventions from his design book exactly like a wizard prepares spells, but only from those that can be made as Tonics; he can build the tonics he prepared with a single actions instead of one minute.
Example - Tonic: An Alchemist builds a Mage Armor Invention. Other Artificers must build it as an Equipment, but he has the option to build it as a Tonic. He must draw and use it, but Tonics are used as normal Inventions and don’t have the limitations of Equipments.
Example - Preparing: An Alchemist prepares Mage Armor after his long rest. During the adventure day he really needs a mage armor tonic, and since Mage Armor is one of his prepared inventions he only need a single action to build it, instead of the normal 1 minute. Later he needs a Cure Wounds invention, but he didn’t choose it as one of his prepared inventions for the day, so Tonic or not he still needs 1 minute to build it.


Gunsmith: Besides being able to create Prototype Guns the Gunsmith can build Special Ammo. This special ammo is built exactly like any normal Invention, but can be only used from a Prototype Gun. The Invention uses the long range of the Prototype Gun in place of the spell’s range. He can only build harmful spells that cause damage or have an area of effect as ammo.
Example - Special Ammo: A Gunsmith builds a Hypnotic Pattern Invention. Since the spell has an area of effect (a 30ft cube within 120t) he has the option to build it as Ammo. He does, and must shoot it through a Prototype Gun, using the gun’s Long Range in place of the spell’s original range.


Grenadier: The Grenadier may build offensive area spells as Bombs. Bombs are throw weapons with a 20/60ft range. He can also “prepare” a number of inventions from his design book exactly like a wizard prepares spells, but only from those that can be made as Bombs; he can build these Bombs as a single action.
Example - Bomb: A Grenadier builds a Burning Hands Invention. Other Artificers must build it as a normal invention, but he can build it as a Bomb. As a Bomb he can throw it with a 20/60 range and the 15ft cone starts where the bomb lands instead of at him.
Example - Preparing: A Grenadier prepares Burning Hands after his long rest. During the adventure day he really needs a burning hands bomb, and since Burning Hands is one of his prepared inventions he only need a single action to build it, instead of the normal 1 minute. Later he needs a Lightning Bolt invention, but he didn’t choose it as one of his prepared inventions, so Bomb or not he still needs 1 minute to build it.


Machinist: Besides being able to created Mechanical Armor, the Machinist can “prepare” a number of inventions from his design book exactly like a wizard prepares spells, but only from beneficial spells with a range of Touch or Self. These spells are Armor Upgrades. While using his Mechanical Armor he can activate these Armor Upgrades without the need to build them first, but he can only target himself with them.
Example - Armor Upgrade: A Machinist prepares Fly after his long rest. During the adventure day he really needs a Fly effect on himself, so he just spends a daily invention slot and activates it without the need to spend 1 minute building it. Later he needs a Cure Wounds invention, but he didn’t choose it as one of his prepared inventions, so he still needs 1 minute to build it.
Example - Not Armor Upgrade: A Machinist didn't prepare Fly after his long rest. During the adventure day he really needs a Fly effect on himself but he didn’t choose it as one of his prepared inventions, so he still needs 1 minute to build it as a jetpack (an Equipment) . However you can't wear Equipments while using a Mechanical Armor, so he's outta luck.



What about roleplay?
You can roleplay your inventions exactly as you want. One might roleplay a Fireball Invention as a classic Eberron-like Infusion; another artificer, more bent to alchemy might say it’s an explosive potion; and another might roleplay it as a single-use disposable handcannon. The system is designed so you can create lots of technological gadgets using the simple and familiar framework of spells. Hand-cannon? Fireball Invention. Parachute? Feather Fall Equipment. Keeping with the feel of 5e, your imagination and the setting you’re playing are the only limits.

xyianth
2014-08-29, 12:43 AM
Wow, I think I just drooled a bit. This looks fantastic. The Gunsmith and Machinist vocations might not fit into every campaign, but the Grenadier vocation is finally a splash weapon specialist that isn't terrible. I've been looking for one of those for ages!

Keep up the great work!

Dyhmas
2014-08-29, 08:19 AM
I second Xyianth, the Granadier is all kinds of awesome...tho the ability to cast spells AND have a boomstick is also awesome. It's times like these that I wish my group wouldn't prefer settings without gunpowder or any kind of advanced technology *sigh*, oh well.

This might be out of place, but how about making a Wand focused artificer? When I played the class in 3.5 I always liked to focus on that, plus there were quite a few feats that improved that style of play. However, I haven't got my hands on the 5e PHB, so I'm not sure how wands work anymore, so this idea might be impossible, but, hey, it would still be all kinds of cool. :smallbiggrin:

Brew on!

-Dyhmas

DiBastet
2014-08-29, 09:46 AM
The Gunsmith and Machinist vocations might not fit into every campaign
That's totally true. In fact next week I'm starting a new campaign on a setting much more oldschool, and you can only choose alchemist or grenadier in this setting, and your inventions can't be rped as steampunk science. But I think that this is the magic of the artificer, you can rp a lot of different kinds of inventions and science; fits like a glove on the feel of 5e.



This might be out of place, but how about making a Wand focused artificer?
Well, in fact in the 3.5 class there are six main "paths" for the artificer: mechanical armor, prototype gun, bombs, tonics, magic item creator and spell-trigger specialist. I admit that I have absolute no idea how to make the magic item creator and the spell trigger dudes for now, and by the looks of it they'll have to become only one. But in any case I regret telling you that I'll wait for the DMG first.

Now, if you want to play a traditional cannith wandificer, I just recomend going alchemist. You make your beneficial inventions as potions, and the offensive ones you rp them as wands. One of the ideas of this artificer is that you can rp your inventions in a lot of different ways, including the classic infusion-based wands.


In any case I appreciate the opinions, thank you.

Starcofski
2014-08-29, 02:48 PM
Looks amazing, I'm going to swing this whenever I find a group to see how people react to it. One thing I would suggest is that you consider granting more invention points, possibly based on intelligence modifier, simply due to how many things seem to require them.

Additionally, if you can, it would be appreciated if you provide an example invention just as a walkthrough.

Dyhmas
2014-08-29, 02:57 PM
Additionally, if you can, it would be appreciated if you provide an example invention just as a walkthrough.

I'll have to second this (came here to ask that, actually) since I've sent this class to one of the players in my group and he was having some trouble to understand the whole process.

So, how about you save me some work as his DM, huh? Pretty please? :smallbiggrin:

-Dyhmas

wayfare
2014-08-29, 08:41 PM
This looks great, though the limitless spells is a bit much -- superior to wizard and bard, and effectively replacing them. Maybe tack on sorcerer limits on the number of spells known, but keep the universal spell access?

The archetypes are really good! Great work.

DiBastet
2014-09-11, 01:39 PM
First of all thanks everyone for the interest. And I'm sorry for the delay; I've been kept aways from the forum these days. Now for replies:


Starcofski
The small number o daily Innovation Points is actually a feature, not a bug. The Artificer has a lot of options and potential, but it's the class theme to choose carefully where and when to spend its resources instead of spamming his abilities. An Artificer will always have a lot of uses for his Innovations, but will also always need to choose a good moment to spend his innovation points. Besides that as a "full caster" his main power are his "spells", his innovation point based abilities should be some kind of backup tool kit. If the player thinks "I don't need to use, but I want to use X now, but if I do that i'll use a point that I may need later" before choosing wheter or not to spend his Innovation Point, then my design goal is a success.


Starcofski and Dyhmas
Due to popular demand I added a Using Inventions part, to showcase how the system is very similar to creating and using a scroll. I hope it helps to explain to your players.


Wayfare
I've been playtesting the game and the only problem that I found about spell access was that I didn't like the Artificer (or the Bard) having access to "exclusive" ranger and paladin spells many levels earlier than said classes. Because of that I changed the Artificer spell acess to Cleric, Druid and Wizard spells. That's still most of the spells, but that's intentional; the Artificer is supposed to be the box of tricks, with a solution to almost all kinds of problems if he saw it coming / prepared for every situation.

Besides that don't forget that any invention he wants to build must be written on his design book, exactly like a wizard spell book. While I understand your concern with such a huge "spell list" I assure you the artificer doesn't overshadows other spellcasters in all points.

Now for the "spells know" limit, I'm against it. Looking at other spellcasters I tried to find each one niche. That's what I found.

Bard: Spells know = not versatile day-to-day. Can add some spells from other lists.
Cleric / Druid (circle of the land): Spells prepared = versatile day-to-day. Additional domain/circle prepared spells "cover the bases" of his theme, allowing preparation of other spells.
Sorcerer: Spells know = not versatile day-to-day. Tries to compensate with metamagic and a kind of spell recovery. Seems a little sad.
Wizard: Spells prepared = versatile day-to-day. Must know the spell in his spellbook limiting his versatility. No extra spells prepared but has spell recovery.


The niche I wanted for this Artificer was to have great versatility if knowing what challenges he'll face, or, specially, when out of combat and with time to solve the problem.

Combat is another story. You see, the artificer could theorically build a lot of inventions and leave them stored so he can compete spell-to-spell against a sorcerer or wizard, but since he had to choose and build his spells before combat he can't be as versatile as both of them, that can cast any spells know/prepared as the situation calls. A wizard could have Mage Armor, Comprehend Language, Burning Hands and Feather Fall prepared, and cast any combination of them with his daily slots (let's say 3), adapting to the situation as needed; the artificer would have to build his 3 inventions before, and wouldn't be able to adapt if the situation called for another one of the four. When combat ends the other spellcaster can still contribute with his utility spells, but the artificer can only contribute with what he already built.

Now, if he didn't try to outclass his spellcasting friend, when combat ends he really shines. The wizard still has only Mage Armor, Comprehend Language, Burning Hands and Feather Fall prepared and can cast any of them with a single action. The artificer however can "cast" any "spell" in his "spellbook", albeit with a 1 minute "casting time". Since he is much more versatile when he's got time (or can prepare correctly) if a situation arises that a Comprehend Language spell could solve it's in the party's best interest to let the artificer handle it and conserve the wizard's spell slots for emergency or combat situations. If the cleric ran out of spells it's a good idea for the artificer to prepare some of the most needed cleric spells as a backup. If they know they will face ice giants then it's a good idea to build some fire damage inventions. In fact he's at his best when he can worry only about out-of-combat spells while leaving combat and emergency spells for the real spellcasters.

It's not a bug that they can try to do other classes' jobs. If they do it outside combat and with time to prepare they can do it with more versatility; if they try to do it in combat they can't compete even against the sorcerer.

That's why a "spells know" table would be totally against the class spirit.

Starcofski
2014-09-11, 10:54 PM
Starcofski
The small number o daily Innovation Points is actually a feature, not a bug. The Artificer has a lot of options and potential, but it's the class theme to choose carefully where and when to spend its resources instead of spamming his abilities. An Artificer will always have a lot of uses for his Innovations, but will also always need to choose a good moment to spend his innovation points. Besides that as a "full caster" his main power are his "spells", his innovation point based abilities should be some kind of backup tool kit. If the player thinks "I don't need to use, but I want to use X now, but if I do that i'll use a point that I may need later" before choosing wheter or not to spend his Innovation Point, then my design goal is a success.

Starcofski and Dyhmas
Due to popular demand I added a Using Inventions part, to showcase how the system is very similar to creating and using a scroll. I hope it helps to explain to your players.

Thanks for that; just showing how inventions are made cleared up everything. I like this, and as soon as I can test a machinist I'll share the results (but that might be a while, need a group first).

dragoonsgone
2014-09-12, 01:56 AM
I like it alot so far. It reminds me of engineers in Guild Wars 2.

Can you expand on firearms a bit? I am pretty sure there aren't firearms in PHB.

DiBastet
2014-09-12, 11:14 AM
You're right, there aren't. It seems we'll have them in the dmg. But since firearms always is hot topic for discussion -kinda like the shape and lenght of elves' ears- I made the gunsmith rules as generic as possible to accomodate different DM tastes: his prototype guns are basically your DM firearms sans the loading property (that I guess will be in most firearms rules anyway). Because of that you can use the gunsmith with my firearms rules, the dmg firearms rules, the average joe firearms rules or any other.

But I digress... Yes, I can share my own firearms rules later when I find time to make the tables.

DiBastet
2014-09-12, 04:59 PM
Updated with simple firearms rules for people interested in the Gunsmith.

Dyhmas
2014-09-12, 05:13 PM
A magic blunderbuss, you say? Yes, please!

Now, more seriously, all of my kudos to you, sir, both on the inventions guide and the firearms rules. Wich, by the way, i like very much, as they are very simple and sleek, alike the other 5e weapons. The explosion property is specially interesting...as in "I gotta keep this away from my table!", since I homebrewed rules to allow a player to craft a weapon while adding extra properties. Just picture a hammer with a cannon as a head. Load it. Strike. Explode. I know my players...

Should this class be used on the current campaign, I shall give the proper impressions.

Keep up with the good work!

-Dyhmas

DiBastet
2014-09-12, 07:15 PM
Hey Dyhmas, you're brazilian, so you can use our portuguese version. You can find it here (http://segredosdealancia.blogspot.com.br/2014/08/5e-alancia-artifice.html).

dragoonsgone
2014-09-12, 11:46 PM
Your firearms rules are great! Thank you. They make me be able to understand the gunsmith alot better.

Dyhmas
2014-09-14, 07:28 AM
Hey Dyhmas, you're brazilian, so you can use our portuguese version. You can find it here (http://segredosdealancia.blogspot.com.br/2014/08/5e-alancia-artifice.html).

Wow, that helps a lot...

Valeu, bro!

-Dyhmas

Surrealistik
2014-09-14, 11:30 AM
I am definitely concerned about the ability to create 5 animated objects that lack the tempering limiter of the short concentration duration of the Animate Objects spell, which can all be commanded to punch things with a Bonus Action. This gives the alchemist way too much action economy.

I would personally change the L14 feature to focus on further improving your personal mecha armour instead with a couple of attachment options, like a flame thrower (a short ranged cone or medium range line of fire that deals fire damage and ignites unattended objects and creatures that fail their Dex save), magic missile turret (allows it to shoot magic missile), magitek cannon (scorching ray, but you can choose the damage type), improved thrusters (allows for flight), energy field generator (a buffer of hit point damage similar to the Abjurationist Ward feature that renders your mecha immune to non-damage effects from spells and damage sources that fail to penetrate it while it's active) which can be temporarily bolstered with innovation points and have a limited number of uses that recharge during a short rest.

Thealtruistorc
2014-09-14, 02:44 PM
I'm hoping that they use this as a basis for the 5e artificer (I don't see wizards giving up on eberrron any time soon). The potential usages this thing has are basically limitless.

DiBastet
2014-09-14, 03:14 PM
Truth be told, I imagine we'll see eberron's artificer doing something similar and using his infusions, but from a specific list with some additions. Besides that, 3.5 artificer was built around being a magic item creator, something that I don't believe will be the focus of the class this edition. Maybe something like getting more charges out of magic items or something like that... Super science? That's not eberron thing, it's more to "use magic in place of science" thing.

GorinichSerpant
2014-11-05, 03:37 PM
Guns can be used by anyone, the Gunsmith gets cool tricks with them but I could have a rifle wielding fighter.
The same isn't true about the Machinist's mechanical armor. You currently can't have a person in power armor, unless you re-fluff ordinary armor.

Ziegander
2014-11-05, 05:08 PM
No concentration + access to Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spell lists = hilariously too powerful and versatile. Write a specific Artificer invention list, please. Concentration is a purposeful and meaningful restriction to spellcasters, beyond simply limiting them to one big spell at once, and making the artificer's inventions, which are drawn from the three biggest spell lists in the game, impossible to disrupt is poor design.

Am I reading this right, that beneficial inventions with a range of self or touch, must be worn as equipment by the artificer and can only benefit the artificer? That's how it sounds, and that seems like a fine limitation, but the wording is very vague.

I find it beyond my own suspension of disbelief that building inventions only consumes raw materials of insignificant costs. What are these "bracers, gloves, shoulders, belts, boot, helmets or backpacks" made of that's so insignificant? That bit just makes no sense to me.

The subclasses are very cool and flavorful and introduce fun new ways to play the game, but the core rules just look like a way overpowered caster.

DiBastet
2014-11-08, 05:43 AM
It's working really ok. The no concentration part is working fine on my games so far; it just means that a stray arrow can't make some gauntlets not work anymore, but in any case they still have the limitation of only one concentration spell at a time.

And yeah, beneficial inventions with a range of touch or self can only be used by the artificer in form of weird science gear. And that "gear" is mostly a spell with some limitations and advantages. On one hand you have to "pre-cast" the spell using a whole minute, then you "cast" it with your action; but on the other hand you have a pretty good list to choose from, assuming you have the "spell" on your "spellbook". Also it's usually hard to find sources of non-wizards spells (usually in form of scrolls) because other classes don't have a spellbook. Finally, I find the idea of charging gold per spell cast stupid and can't imagine using that restriction in any other spellcaster class. If you use the artificer in your games feel free to add 5gp x spell level.

Inchoroi
2014-11-21, 09:32 PM
For the first time ever, I've created a forum account solely for the purpose of saying how awesome a post is. I have to say, this is one of the coolest things I've read in quite a while, and I will be using it in my game coming up, and my wife and I will be using it in the next game I'm running for both our characters.

So, congratulations, DiBastet. You're the first person who's ever gotten me to join a forum solely to say how awesome you are!

P.S. I'd like your permission to post a link to this on my blog, if I may. That's how awesome it is.

DiBastet
2014-11-22, 11:23 AM
Sure man, please feel free to.

Also, since english is not my native language the grammar may be a bit off here and there, so if you need to feel free to revisit the text or modify this as much as you want.

BTW, that's a big compliment. Thank you.

Inchoroi
2014-11-22, 08:38 PM
Sure man, please feel free to.

Also, since english is not my native language the grammar may be a bit off here and there, so if you need to feel free to revisit the text or modify this as much as you want.

BTW, that's a big compliment. Thank you.

Yeah, my wife is angry that she didn't discover this sooner, otherwise she'd be playing it now (only missed it by three weeks)!

Actually, if you'd like, I can make up a pdf using InDesign that you can post, as well, for others, with corrected grammar, etc. Wouldn't take long to do.

DiBastet
2014-11-23, 08:11 AM
Feel free to. You have my blessing.

Inchoroi
2014-11-25, 12:50 AM
Feel free to. You have my blessing.

Clarification request: Gadgets are cantrips that can only come from the cleric, druid, and wizard classes, right?

DiBastet
2014-11-27, 07:54 PM
Yes, his entire "spell list" can only come from wizard, druid and cleric.

Inchoroi
2014-12-01, 01:39 AM
Yes, his entire "spell list" can only come from wizard, druid and cleric.

That's what I figured; well, no eldritch blast gattling gun...

Negflar2099
2014-12-03, 03:09 PM
Looks really great. I created Alchemist and Gadgeteer classes too but they weren't working as well as I think this will work. I erred too much on the side of making them weaker never realizing how powerful some of the 5e classes are (I'm looking at you druid).

One question though. What level does an Artificer learn their first two discoveries? I know they learn 2 more at 10 and 17 but I wasn't sure when they learn their first two as it doesn't look like it's on the chart. I assumed it was 2nd level when they get their innovation points but I wasn't sure.

Thanks.

Inchoroi
2014-12-10, 10:38 PM
Looks really great. I created Alchemist and Gadgeteer classes too but they weren't working as well as I think this will work. I erred too much on the side of making them weaker never realizing how powerful some of the 5e classes are (I'm looking at you druid).

One question though. What level does an Artificer learn their first two discoveries? I know they learn 2 more at 10 and 17 but I wasn't sure when they learn their first two as it doesn't look like it's on the chart. I assumed it was 2nd level when they get their innovation points but I wasn't sure.

Thanks.

I read it as they get the first two at 2nd level, and then another 2 at 10 and 17 as well.

Inchoroi
2014-12-13, 12:58 AM
Hm.

If you were to make some feats that would synergize with this well, what would they be, DiBastet.

So far, I've got a Master Artisan feat, that doubles your crafting progress when using a specific artisan tool that you're proficient with, and a firearms expert feat that's similar to crossbow expert. I'd like to come up with more, just to have some options.

EDIT: Perhaps a feat that lets you analyze a magic item for a time, and then have the ability to make a formula from that time spent analyzing, for use in crafting a copy?

EDIT EDIT: Also, possibly one that allows you to better direct any helpers you might have, further increasing the progress you make each day in your crafting?

Lord_Ardilla
2015-01-31, 12:26 AM
First, I want to say that this class is AMAZING! I , just like Inchoroi, created my forum account just to congratulate you on this class and add my thoughts.

I think there might be a few spells from the wizard/cleric/druid list that might seem out of place for an invention to be able to accomplish. You might want to go through and slowly cross out a few spells at a time from the list that just don't make sense. You could also add a line to the spell list section reminding the player that the DM has final say on

I think you meant to have Discoveries start at 3rd level like the sorcerers metamagic, am I correct in assuming this? Most of the discoveries seem to be well balanced, but I might make a few changes. The medic discovery seems to really be edging into the cleric's territory. Maybe this Discovery should cost an Innovation point to use? Simple Science seems to be, in my opinion, overpowered. It allows you to have a buff active on each member of your party simultaneously, when the concentration rules would normally limit you to only having one buff active at a time. If everyone rolls high initiative, you could effectively cast fireball 4 times in the same round and wipe out the opposing party before they could spread out. you could also have the entire party witch-bolting their enemies for continuous extra damage per round. My suggestion would be to use Innovation point to install an extra simple switch that anyone could activate on each invention before you hand it off to another character. You could build your inventions normally and then invest the Innovation point just before handing the device to an ally. You will still be able to pull off these tactics, but they will require a little extra investment to balance them out.

The 6th level Elemental Ammo ability from the Gunsmith Vocation seems underpowered for an ability requiring you to spend an Innovation point. I would suggest increasing the duration if it costs an Innovation point. Maybe 1 minute per level, or 1 minute per intelligence modifier. Removing the loading feature from the Prototype Gun does not seem to matter unless you are multiclassed into another class that offers extra attacks. You might consider adding an extra attack feature at 6th level to this Vocation specific to firearms use and maybe call it "Double Tap." It might require an Innovation point like the Mechanical Fist ability from the Machinist.

The 14th level Construct Armor ability from the Machanist Vocation might benefit from adjusting the definite value of 5 to a value based on your intelligence modifier. It seems more similar to the rest of the game mechanics. Maybe up to intelligence modifier(minimum 1) Construct Armors at the same time.

If you want the try an fit the Gunsmith into a campaign world that doesn't have firearms available, you might consider it to be a magically powered crossbow that only a gunsmith has access to making and operating. The crossbow does not have the bow portion and the launching force is provided by magical energy. It could use full bolts, or just the tips for the ammunition.

All that being said, this is still a well constructed class. Thank you.

EDIT: you might also consider allowing the Gunsmith and the Machinist to incorporate their Gadgets into their guns and armor. It would be fun flavor to have Fire Bolt as an under-barrel option, or a Shocking Grasp bayonet or mecha hand. You might even be able to build gadgets into the gun and be able to turn a nob/crystal and select a cantrip you know. Fun flavor ideas.

DiBastet
2015-01-31, 08:06 PM
Hello and thank you for your imput. I'm surprised people still even comment on this little work of mine!

First let me adress the issue about the spell list: I agree that there are some cleric and druid spells that are on the weird side of artificer, I really do. (I'll spoiler the next part since it boils down to a rant about my vision of spell lists)

In my games these spells have the [Divine] tag, and are mostly spells that deal with the nature of the divine, like creating holy water, affecting people from different religions, talking to gods and the land, that kind of thing. Also in my games all spells are universal, and in short characters have access to all spells of a certain focus; so a fire mage, druid or cleric have access to the same spells; a healing mage, druid and cleric cast the very same spells too (except non-divine casters can't cast spells with the [Divine] tag).

As you can see in my games that's a non-issue; the artificer can't create divine spells and that's it. But since that works only for my games I can see the reason on your argument.

I think I may just add the following line to the spell list part: ", except the DM may forbid some Divine spells, like spells that deal with the nature of the Divine (see sidebar)". That way I make my personal suggestion but leave it open for the DM; some may like the idea of technology creating holy water (with silver nanites instead of dust!!!), some others may not.

-Now about healing, I really hate healing being a cleric's job; really, i really really hate that; but for those groups that prefer to keep spell lists as they are, that discovery allows two things: an efficient healing-focused artificer, and also the artificer being an acceptable replacement for a cleric. "hey, who's gonna play a cleric to heal?" "ugh, not me..." "dibs on arcane caster" "Ok, i'm an artificer, i'll get that healing discovery"

-Simple science: Other people can actually only use your beneficial inventions. But in any case I did some playtest and on the second game session found that the following line is needed ", but unlike you the invention requires their full concentration to keep active". With that line you can still buff each party member with a concentration spell, but if they're casters they need to choose between their spells or your invention; if they're not they still have to deal with disrupting. You see, your suggestion was the original idea for the ability: allowing any spell but with a innovation cost. However I scraped that in favor of only beneficial spells (healing syringes, power gloves, rollerskates) and no cost.

-Elemental Ammo being weak: That's something I was worried about. I still didn't have the chance to see the gunsmith spec in play in 5e (only had the chance with the 3.5 version) so I still can't tell if it's weak or just feels weak. That said I already had a fix for it if it turned to be too weak: Making it scale damage like a cantrip, adding +1d6 damage at levels 6, 11 and 17. I'll add that fix for now until I can playtest it better (oh and about the duration, the ability was loosely balanced on Divine Favor and the Smite spells; bonus action 1 minute spells)

-The reload part: Your point is perfectly valid, and in fact it's one the first questions my players asked: "why, if the artificer won't benefit?". Well, that's because of one fighter archtype; the Gunslinger. The Gunslinger is to the Gunsmith what the eldritch knight is to the wizard; he has 1/3 inventions he can only use as Special Ammo and the same Prototype Gun as the artificer.

-Construct armor: That... that makes perfectly sense actually. Consider it done.

-Edit: That's a great suggestion, and that's also exactly how you roleplay Armor Upgrades and Special Ammo! Maybe I could make it clear that you can make them off your cantrips too!


Thanks for the very well thought comments and suggestions!

Inchoroi
2015-01-31, 10:28 PM
People keep commenting on this because its awesome.

As a note, I've played the Artificer myself up to level 8, and didn't notice much in the way of damage lag, even if having Extra Attack makes me cackle with glee. Having them stack damage with level would just be awesome, since that makes more sense and lets me, in the future, have my shotgun artificer going.

Printing off a new copy with the changes!

DiBastet
2015-02-01, 07:24 AM
As a note, I've played the Artificer myself up to level 8

Oh did you? I had the pleasure to see reports of the Machinist and Grenadier, so tell me, which spec did you choose?

Arracor
2015-02-01, 12:02 PM
I quite like this class, and though my needs for it differ a little from how it's currently designed, it's a very apt fit for the role I intend.

First, general input. I'm just a bit concerned about the power of having a full-caster with access to all 3 major spell pools who also has more HP than your average rogue/caster. A minor concern, but one worth noting. Also, a minor tweak for how inventions work; what if, instead of going inert after a day, they occupy the spell slot instead? Meaning you could keep the same inventions from day to day, but the spell slot won't refresh until you dismantle it. It doesn't change a whole lot, but it does present the option of cutting out a bit of the drudgery for things you know you'll be reusing the next day, and it presents the possibility of kitting out a party member who maybe has to separate from you for a while, if RP reasons call for it.

Last, and I think deserving of its own paragraph... When I think 'artificer' in D&D, I think of crafting. But now that crafting isn't an improvable skill, and is instead a much, much slower thing... Well, it presents in issue that I feel like a lot of people might want a 'fix' for. Rather than modify the system, why not resolve it with a class built around, well, building things? I see a few totally empty levels (besides slots) where incremental crafting boosts could be added. If you don't do something for it, I probably will when I get serious about using this class, but I'm putting the idea out there for others' benefit.

Lord_Ardilla
2015-02-02, 12:04 AM
DiBastet: I missed the "beneficial inventions" clause in Simple Science. it sounds good to me now

Elemental Ammo Update: I like what you did with it. It's damage lags behind the fire bolt cantrip and a fighter with a great sword. If you multiclass as a fighter or ranger, you can get an extra attack and deal more damage with a gun than a pure artificer, but still less than a pure fighter, so I would still call it balanced. You might want to add that it is considered magical for overcomming damage reduction? I have not read very much of the DMG or MM so I'm not sure if making it magical really effects anything. The additional +3d6 also make the 18th level vocation power useful, being able to deal 3d6+1d10 damage in a shape, mimicing some 1st/2nd level spells and being 1 step above the cantrips you could be casting. I would probably not use the +d6 version for the fighter archetype though.

Arracor: the cleric and rogue both get d8 hit points and the cleric is a full caster. The sorceror is also full caster with d6 hit points, and with the draconic heritage, their d6+1 hid dice average out to the same as a d8. The HP isn't anything to worry about. If wizards and sorcerers still had d4s and rogues had d6s, it might be imbalanced.

Part of the reason why the large casting list is balanced is because it requires a full minute to construct each invention. It would not affect that balance if you required the artificer to sacrifice 1 minute for each invention after a long rest before it could be used again. I would like to say that, for flavor's sake, having items remain constructed but not active feels better. The artificer could just spend 1 minute repowering the devices he wanted to and it would seem more logical and not effect any game balance.

The efficient crafter discovery allows for crafting at 5x normal speed, were you thinking of regular item crafting or magical item crafting?

New Discovery Ideas/feats :
Exotic Invention: You may choose one spell from outside the normal artificer class list to add to your artificer design book. You may now create inventions based on this spell, but the notation is so bizzare that no other caster or artificer can understand this inventions plans.

Rechargable Invention: After you have used an invention, you may immediately spend an Innovation point and an invention slot of equal or higher level to the one used to create the original invention in order to make the invention functional again.

Improved Elemental ammo: When you activate the Elemental Ammo Feature of the Gunsmith or Gunslinger, your shots have an added effect that corresponds to the element you choose. Creatures immune to that type of energy are immune to the additional effects as well. Acid/Fire: The target(s) is covered in acid/fire. At the beginning of it's turn a creature covered in this fire/acid must make a dexterity save or take 1d6 points of acid damage. This effect lasts for 5 rounds or until the creature makes it's first successful save. Cold: The target(s) becomes stiff with near frostbite. It's speed is reduced by 10 feet until the start of your next turn. Electricity: The target(s) neural system becomes less functional and it is unable to take reactions until the beginning of your next turn. Thunder: The target is pummeled by thunder and must succeed at a strength check or be pushed 10 feet away from the shooter.

New Flavor ideas
Multi-charge items: instead of crafting multiple instance of the same invention, you create a singe invention of the same type with multiple uses. You would still need to take 1 minute of construction time for each use. EX: instead of taking 2 minutes and creating 2 different magical tuning forks to create a "thunder wave" spell, you could spend 2 minutes and create a single magical tuning fork that could be struck twice. Same prep time, same balance, less wasted space.

Arracor
2015-02-02, 06:55 AM
Ha, I completely overlooked that. Still, though that feels like a good starting point, it seems a bit underwhelming once you get to higher levels to still craft as slowly as you did as a wee laddie at level 1.

Lord_Ardilla
2015-02-02, 10:28 AM
there is also the simple machine discovery. it costs 1 hour and 500 gp to create the initial helper, but you can then have a helper crafting with you. if your character spent a years constantly using them, you could technically build an army of crafters. "your skill of tool proficiency" could also be extended to your Efficient Crafting, since you designed the machine and you are skilled and crafting efficiently. Loose interpretation there. with one mechanical helper of your own design, you could make a set of 1500 gp plate mail at 50 gp a day in 30 days! 2 helpers in 20 days. as you level you could conceivably create more and more crafting machines and continually increase your building speeds.

You might want to hire an apprentice artificer to run your workshop and make the minor repairs to keep your simple machines functioning for their initial year investment until they become permanent. You could then start a set of full plate armor with your simple machine and just have your apprentice keep making the 10 minute daily repairs. Leave for 2 months of adventuring and BAM! new set of full plate armor. This particular version of crafting assistance was possible in 3.5 with the appropriate homunculus, so I would say that it isn't against the flavor of the class or its old uses in other editions.

Another thing to remember is that Artificer's Knowledge allows you to become proficient in any tool after 1 minute and 1 innovation point, so you can make crafting helpers of any type without needing to spend a lifetime learning how to use every tool.

DiBastet
2015-02-03, 08:56 AM
Ok, let's take a look

Elemental Ammo: In fact, lord adilla, the Gunslinger doesn't get elemental ammo at all, he gets mostly gun tricks. I'll try to post it later.

Exotic Invention: That's one I would consider in my games but not to the general populace. The rule has precedent in form of Magical Secrets of the Bard, but people use it to choose exclusive paladin and ranger spells that were supposed to be balanced to a certain class level and get them earlier, and I frankly don't like that. However, that could be rephrased as "You may also choose spells from Bard and Warlock class lists to add to your artificer design book. You may now create inventions based on this spell, but the notation is so bizzare that no other caster or artificer can understand these invention plans. Inventions from these spells can't benefit from Simple Science." Seems like a great new discovery.

Rechargable Invention: Seems balanced. You're spending one very finite resource (discoveries know) to be able to "double tap" or "nova" a spell. I don't see many situations outside of "oh crap" moments in that this discovery would be a good; most of the time if things are running smoothly you either built the number of inventions you needed, are conserving resources or just spends one minute building another one. That discovery shines when neither is happening and things aren't as smooth as you wanted. I would change the name to fit this role, something like "Emergency Recharge", "Squeeze Juice" or something like that, but that's a good addition.

Flavor Idea: For handheld inventions I totally allow that, specially because I had the players that were really into the artificer flavor; one of them would always build 3 scorching rays back on 3.5, and his mounted cannon had three red lights showing how many charges were left. There was a time someone asked (in character) why wouldn't she build more uses for her cannon, and the awser was an amazing "How many lights do you see? Do you, sir, see space here for one more cannon?". Of course, that was all IC and flavor. Equipment inventions are another matter; another player wanted to have two of a same spell back in 3.5... i believe it was an Immediate Action defensive spell or something... he always said he felt safer with two of them, but since they qualified as Equipment and he had to wear them, he built them as both his main Barrier-Emitter Bracers and his Emergency Head-Mounted Barrier-Emitter Helm (or something like that).

Speaking of flavor, actually my players always roleplayed re-building the same invention, be it from an expended one or after a long rest, as actually maitaining or recharging the same invention instead of building from scratch the same one.

Finally, lord ardilla, the ammount of though you put into Simple Machine makes me chuckle. The original 3.5 version had a Complex Machine upgrade that allowed even for more crazyness (it could move, be proggramed for up to INT tasks and some other things; players created a poor man's kwalish apparatus with that), but since the feel of 5e is being simpler, some of the possible functions were worked into Simple Machine.

Trying to keep up with 5e's feel, I leave some interpretations open for the DM to judge. If he's not okay with the idea of the sole vaguely steampunk crafter being able to be the Ford of his time, then he won't allow you to stack efficient crafting on your simple machine; however if that idea makes him chuckle inside he'll not only allow that but probably allow you to spend resources to start with your micro factory already fully functional! Maybe the lords of the realm even comission "that crazy man with his machines" to build them their weapons and armor of war, maybe the other blacksmiths of the region hate your character, or maybe you win them with your charisma and turn them into factory hands!

The campaign I dm right now -a dark, gritty fantasy in a land of knights and backstabbing nobility- doesn't have space for such sillyness, but my main setting, a "generic high fantasy setting of my own" is a perfect place for that. in fact back in 3.5 one player did exactly this, but he was an alchemist instead of a blacksmith, and his auto-chemist would churn potions for the group daily. He even used shrink item on it everyday; he would bring it to full size in the morning, make repairs, get the finished batch, put some more raw materials in, make sure everything was ok and then use shrink item on it again. It was glorious.

Inchoroi
2015-02-04, 12:26 AM
Oh did you? I had the pleasure to see reports of the Machinist and Grenadier, so tell me, which spec did you choose?

Why, Gunsmith, of course.

I decided to dual wield pistols, myself; I considered going shotgun or rifle, but pistols just felt more fun. I also went pistols so I could do damage while focusing almost all my inventions on healing and buffing, since I was the designated healer. It was so much fun, still; in character, I freaked out the players by literally making spiders that sewed them shut to heal them, knowing that the players, with the exception of one, were very afraid of spiders (yes, I am a ****).

I am going to add the Exotic Invention; I know my wife's next artificer wants a gattling gun, and doesn't that just sound like Eldritch Blast to you? She and I have decided that we're both going to play Artificers at some point, probably for when I run Iron Gods in 5e, and name our characters after guns: Beretta Stampede and Ruger Vaquero. Ruger, my character, will be going full-on Caster Shells from the anime Outlaw Star. Not sure what she wants to do, but she mentioned something about a town that walks on spider-legs.

For the crafting thing, my artificer did turn out to be a bit of a craft-mule, but that was okay. I bought a couple custom feats (we use houserules that give a couple bonus feats to make the character feel more awesome) that I will repost here:

Master Artisan
Through training and dedication, you have mastered the use of a type of artisan's tools. You pick one set of artisan's tools that you are proficient with. When using those tools to craft an item, you double the amount of progress you make each day, after all other modifiers. If you wish, you may purchase this feat multiple times, each purchase applying to a different artisan tool.

Cooperative Crafting
You are adept at communicating and detailing your instructions to your assistants. When using artisan tools to craft an item, any creatures assisting you double the amount of progress that is made on the item being created by the group.

DiBastet
2015-02-04, 07:23 AM
That's the spirit of the class! Using your inventions in crazy ways. Sounds like you had a good ol' lot of fun! Keep it up!

Twelvetrees
2015-02-05, 12:06 AM
I have yet to do more than skim over this, but from what I've seen, this is really cool.

Only comment so far: From what I can see, there is no limitation against taking the same Discovery multiple times. You may want to change that.

Again, nicely done.

DrKungFu
2015-02-06, 11:36 AM
I really love this class. Like seriously. Its really cool what you've done with it. It feels really open to whatever you need your caster to do, which is great.
If possible though, could I get some clarifications regarding the Gunsmith vocation.

1)Can gadgets be used to create custom ammo for prototype guns?
2)Can you have multiple Prototype Guns(Like a rifle and holdout pistol for example)
3)Can you use custom ammo and elemental ammo in the same shot?

Thanks, and please do keep this kind of stuff coming.

DiBastet
2015-02-08, 10:09 PM
1 - actually you can
2 - the intention is to allow as many as you can change. in fact this isn't gunsmith-dependent; you could even find a cache of prototype guns from an enemy gunsmith or something like that. imagine that!
3 - no, they are incompatible, and i'll add that to the text. for all the fancy names Special Ammo is nothing more than casting a spell -albeit with a different range-, while special ammo is a carrier effect for a weapon attack.

Inchoroi
2015-02-20, 05:03 PM
I was wondering. My wife wants her artificer to have a Gatling gun. How would you go about doing that?

DiBastet
2015-02-20, 06:37 PM
A modified version of NWN's greater missile storm would be great. That or a modified version of that barrage spell.

festivemanb
2015-05-16, 02:16 PM
Just wanted to say that I am playing a Gunsmith right now and am really enjoying it. It's huge fun imagining how my PC will spin a magic spell into an invention. Will report back later on balance issues if they come up; only at level 3 right now.

Arracor
2015-05-23, 10:58 PM
So I finally, finally got around to working on translating your Artificer to my world's lore. It took a solid few days, forced me to define 5e crafting rules for my games, and caused me many headaches in designing a very powerful restricted subclass. No small part of this project was scrawling though 5e's spell lists, marking out spells I could justify as nonmagical with the game's highest (mortal) tech level. If you'd like, I can upload these documents, and if not, your thread deserves the front page bump anyway!

DiBastet
2015-06-26, 07:30 PM
Returning to previous commenters after an extended leave, I would be honoredif you posted your subclass / version, so yeah, please do.

Arracor
2015-07-08, 07:39 PM
Returning to previous commenters after an extended leave, I would be honored if you posted your subclass / version, so yeah, please do.

In that case, here is the version of Artificer that I'll be using in my games.


http://i.imgur.com/16qKLIi.png

Class Features

Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per Artificer level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per Artificer level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: Light armor
Weapons: Simple weapons.
Tools: Two artisan’s tools of your choice
Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence
Skills: Craft, Nature, and then choose two from Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Perception.

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:
• (a) any simple weapon
• (a) a dungeoneer’s pack or (b) an explorer's pack
• (a) a set of artisan’s tools
• Leather armor and a dagger

(1st Level) Inventions: You can create devices of amazing technological complexity, called Inventions. The Artificer table shows how many Invention slots you have to create your Inventions of 1st level and higher. To build one of these Inventions, you must expend a slot of the Invention’s level or higher. You regain all expended Invention slots when you finish a long rest.

An Invention is keyed to the Artificer and immediately becomes inert if it leaves the Artificer's possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to their keeping; an Artificer cannot normally pass out their Inventions for allies to use (but see the “Simple Instructions” Discovery below). An Invention, once built, remains potent for 1 day before becoming inert, so an Artificer must rebuild or recharge their Inventions every day. Building an invention takes 1 minute of work, but the Artificer can build any Invention in their Design Book as long as they have an Invention slot of the appropriate level. Many Artificers build several Inventions at the start of the day or just before going on an adventure, but it's not uncommon for an Artificer to keep some (or even all) of their daily Invention slots open so that they can build Inventions in the field as needed.

An Artificer’s Inventions are strictly scientific, and therefore are unaffected by anything that disrupts or negates magic. Every Artificer has a Design Book that determines what Inventions they can build. An Invention is activated with the Use Item action Any beneficial Invention that has a range of self or touch and a duration of more than 1 round must be made as a piece of Equipment that the Artificer must be wearing to activate. These Inventions may be made as bracers, gloves, shoulders, belts, boot, helmets or backpacks, are always cumbersome, and prevent the use of other items in the space they occupy. All others are some kind of handheld item that must be retrieved before use. Inventions require no concentration to keep, even if the effect has a duration of Concentration; however, the Artificer can only keep one of these Inventions active at a time.

Building Inventions consumes raw materials, but the cost of these materials is insignificant; comparable to the valueless material components of most spells. If an Invention has a costly material component, that component is expended during the activation of that particular Invention. An Artificer can build an Invention of any Design he knows. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an Artificer's Invention is 8 + proficiency + the Artificer's Intelligence modifier, and any attack is made with 1d20 + proficiency + the Artificer's Intelligence modifier.

An Artificer chooses their Designs from the Artificer Invention list. They record these Designs in a special tome called a Design Book. They must refer to this book whenever they build an Invention. An Artificer begins play with six 1st level Designs. At each new Artificer level, they gain two new Designs of any level that they can create. An Artificer can also add Designs to their Design Book, whether by learning them from another Artificer or by deciphering them from another Design Book. The cost of this transcription process is 50gp and 2 hours per level of the Design. An Artificer can attempt to study a Wizard's spellbook to learn any Design that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains; however, this requires 400gp and 8 hours per spell level, as well as a successful Nature (Int) skill check. The DC for this check equals 8 + twice the level of the spell, and is made before expending any costs. The assistance of the spellbook’s Wizard grants Advantage on this check.

(1st Level) Gadgets: At 1st level you know the Designs for 3 Gadgets of your choice. You learn the Design for one additional Gadget at levels 4 and 10. A Gadget is a 0-level Invention, and can be activated repeatedly. Wearable Gadgets never occupy significant space on the body of the user.

(1st Level) Initial Discoveries: The Artificer is always learning new techniques and improvements to their skills. You gain two of the following Discovery options of your choice at 1st level. You gain another two at 10th and 17th level. Some Discoveries require Innovation Points to be used.

• Biochemist: You can create and use Inventions that heal HP, or cure conditions/exhaustion/diseases/poisons, with a single action.
• Calculator: With 1 minute of work and 1 Innovation Point you can build a special device full of buttons and levers that allow you to make all kinds of calculations. The device works as an abacus and compass, and also measures height, temperature and depth. As an action you can also try to calculate the DC of any task; make an appropriate skill check (using Int) with a DC of 15. If successful, the character measures the probability of success, while the GM tells the player the DC. The device works for 8 hours and then becomes inert.
• Cliff Treader: With 1 minute of work and 1 Innovation Point you can build a special climbing harness for yourself; you gain a climbing speed equal your land speed, and you can free both hands. The device works for 8 hours and then becomes inert.
• Diving Suit: With 1 minute of work and 1 Innovation Point you can build a special aquatic suit for yourself; you gain a swimming speed equal your land speed, and you can also hold your breath ten times longer. The device works for 8 hours and then becomes inert.
• First Aid Techniques: If you or any friendly creatures who are under your care regain HP at the end of a short or long rest, each of these creatures regain extra HP equal to your Intelligence modifier.
• Hair Trigger: When you activate an Invention targeting only yourself, you can spend 1 Innovation Point to activate it with a bonus action.
• Maintenance Mastery: You can create highly modified versions of Inventions that heal HP; these modified Inventions only work on constructs and objects, and have no effect on living creatures.
• Overcharge: When you activate an Invention that has a duration longer than 1 minute, you can spend 1 Innovation Point to double its duration, to a maximum of 24 hours.
• Routine Invention: You can create Inventions with the Ritual tag as Routines. A Routine doesn’t cost an Invention slot, but the creation time becomes 30 minutes and you must spend 1 Innovation Point.
• Simple Construct: With 1 minute of work and 1 Innovation Point you can create a mechanical device that executes one simple programmed action. This construct has the statistics of a Medium or smaller Animated Object, except that it can’t attack and it has one of your skill or tool proficiencies. The construct remains active for 10 minutes before critically malfunctioning. You can only program 1 command, something that an Unseen Servant could reasonably do. Alternatively you can build a sturdier construct with 1 hour of work and 500gp. The sturdier construct remains active for 24 hours, and you or any other Artificer can extend this duration each day by spending 10 minutes and 1 Innovation Point making minor repairs and modifications. After one year of continuous activation, the Simple Construct’s schematic has been perfected and it becomes permanent. A perfected schematic can be rebuilt with 1 hour of work and 500gp, and retains its permanency.
• Simple Instructions: You can Design your Inventions with idiot-proof methods of activation, and other creatures can use your beneficial Inventions. Each creature can have only one Invention with a duration of Concentration active at the same time.

(2nd Level) Innovation: The Artificer has a font of creativity and insight that is represented by Innovation Points, which are used to active some of their abilities. You have an amount of Innovation Points equal your Artificer level. You regain all spent Innovation Points when you finish a long rest.

(2nd Level) Artificer’s Knowledge: If the Artificer studies a Tool for 1 minute and spends 1 Innovation Point, they become proficient in that Tool until they use this ability again or finish a long rest.
(3rd Level) Efficient Crafter: At 3rd level, and every odd level after, your crafting ability improves far beyond your uninitiated peers. Initially, you can craft two times faster than normal. At each odd level, increase this multiplier by 1. This does not apply to Inventions, or any devices created for Discovery abilities.
(10th Level) Build Smarter: …Not Harder. Through clever application of advanced techniques, you can now craft items at half the cost. This does not apply to Inventions, or any devices created for Discovery abilities.
(20th Level) Eternal Invention: When you activate an Invention with a duration longer than 1 round, you can spend 1 Innovation Point and extend the duration to 24 hours or until you use this ability again.


Vocations


Alchemist

(3rd Level) Bonus Proficiency: Alchemist’s Kit

(3rd Level) Tonics: You can build beneficial Inventions with a range of self or touch as Tonics. Tonics are like potions and oils, and are used like normal Inventions. Additionally you can prepare a number of Inventions from your Design Book equal to your Intelligence modifier + your Artificer level (minimum 1), but only those that can be made as Tonics. You can build these prepared Tonics with a single action instead of 1 minute.

(6th Level) Mutagens: With 1 minute of work and 1 Innovation Point you can prepare a special injection that works only for a single creature. Choose a creature and a physical Ability Score; when the target creature drinks the Mutagen they receive the effects of the Enhance Ability spell, but also receive Disadvantage to tests of the linked Ability. The linked Abilities are STR-INT, DEX-WIS, CON-CHA. The effect lasts 1 hour per Artificer level.

(14th Level) Healing Factor: Creatures under the effect or your Mutagen receive the benefit of the Revivify spell exactly 5 rounds after their death. This ends the Mutagen for that creature.

(18th Level) Alchemical Transformation: With 8 hours of work and 1 Innovation Point you can permanently alter the body of a target creature present during the entire process, who must be either willing or Incapacitated. The target is transformed as in Alter Self or True Polymorph, but with a permanent effect. This ability can’t be used again until you finish a long rest.


Grenadier

(3rd Level) Bonus Proficiency: Demolitionist’s Tools
(3rd Level) Bombs: You can build Inventions of offensive area spells as Bombs. Bombs are thrown weapons with a maximum range of 60ft; if you hit the target they receive Disadvantage on any related saves. Additionally, you can prepare a number of Inventions from your Design Book equal to your Intelligence modifier + your Artificer level (minimum 1), but only those that can be made as Bombs. You can build these prepared Bombs with a single action instead of 1 minute.
(6th Level) Controlled Blast: By spending 1 Innovation Point when you use a Bomb, you can choose a number of creatures that you can see equal to your Proficiency bonus. The chosen creatures automatically succeed on their saving throws against the Bomb, and they take no damage on a successful save.
(14th Level) Precise Explosions: You can add your Intelligence modifier to the damage of your Bombs.
(18th Level) Dangerous Explosives: When you use a Bomb, you can spend 1 Innovation Point to cause +50% damage with that Bomb.

Machinist

(3rd Level) Bonus Proficiency: Engineering Tools, medium armor

(3rd Level) Mechanical Exosuit: With 8 hours of work you can modify an armor that you’re proficient with into an Exosuit. An Exosuit works like a normal suit of armor, but it weighs 50% more, always imposes Disadvantage on Stealth checks, prohibits the user from wearing Inventions, and only Artificers with the Machinist Vocation are proficient in their use. While wearing an Exosuit you receive an Exo-Slam attack (1d8+Int Bludgeoning). Additionally you can prepare a number of Inventions from your Design Book equal to your Intelligence modifier + your Artificer level (minimum 1), but only with a range of self or touch. These Inventions are Exosuit Mods, and you can use them without building them first, but can only target yourself with them.

(6th Level) Exosuit Expertise: You can use the two following abilities:

• Exo-Fist: Immediately after you take the Attack action or your turn, you can spend 1 Innovation Point to make one Exo-Slam attack as a bonus action.

• Thrusters: You can spend 1 Innovation point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn, and your Jump distance is doubled until the start of your next turn.

(14th Level) Construct Armor: You can turn Exosuits into Construct Armors with 8 hours of work. A Construct Armor has one additional movement type equal to half your land speed, among climbing, flight, swimming and burrowing. Whenever you’re not wearing the armor, or become Incapacitated while wearing it, the Construct Armor acts as a Medium Animated Object with the additional movement type and the Exo-Slam attack. If left without orders the armor takes the Dodge action. If you’re rendered Incapacitated while inside the armor it takes the Dodge or Disengage action on your turn and tries to stay close to creatures designated as allies, or flees if alone. These creatures can remove you from the Construct Armor, but nothing else can without destroying it. You can have a number of Construct Armors active at once equal to your Intelligence modifier

(18th Level) Sealed Environment: Your Construct Armors are sealed from the outside. They provide constant air as well as immunity to gasses, pressure and asphyxiation. While inside your Construct Armor you also receive Darkvision and Advantage on saves against Poisoned, Blindness, and diseases.




(Notes: Several 'spells' have had changes added to make them consistent with the strictly nonmagical nature of Artificer Inventions. Spells that use AI are forbidden, as, much like the 40k or Mass Effect universes, AI are considered highly dangerous.)
http://i.imgur.com/6tkUHw5.png


And finally, there's a specific, faction-restricted, and very powerful subclass specifically for one of my campaigns.


(3rd level) Concentrated Effort: Manufactors are able to interact with technology in ways not fully understood even by other Artificers. Any Artificer Invention that would require the use of an AI can be controlled by the Manufactor’s will instead, so long as you maintain Concentration for the duration of the effect. The moment you lose Concentration, the effect ends. In addition, your mind has unique power not known anywhere else in the known universe. The following Inventions are available only to a Manufactor, and cannot be used by anyone but you:
http://i.imgur.com/8rADwQB.png

(3rd level) Contraption Control: While most Kauvics require manual access to use the technological devices of their empire, the Manufactors are unique in their ability to remotely access and operate any device they have clearance for. You can try to activate any Kauvic device you can see within a radius of 30 x (Int+Proficiency) feet of you.

(3rd level) Imperial Engineer: The Manufactors create and repair the overwhelming majority of Kauvic technology. With 1 minute of work you can heal any construct or object for 2d8+Int, or spend an Innovation Point and do it as a full round action.

(6th level) Secrets of Golem Creation: While the Manufactorum is integral to the progress and maintenance of the Kauvic lifestyle, their most well-known capability is the construction of terrible engines of war, called Golems. The simplest of these Golems is the Flesh Golem, a construct that manipulates biological design and combines it with mechanical augmentation. Crafting a Flesh Golem requires a base cost of 19,000GP, and you cannot be aided by any but a Manufactor of equal or greater level.
Additionally, you are uniquely able to control Golems. You can control a single Golem at a time. They may be given a single command; alternately, you can directly control them through Concentration. A Golem with no active commands and nobody controlling it falls under your control without contest. If the Golem is controlled by another creature, or has an active command from another creature, it must make an Intelligence save using the save of the controlling creature (DC 8+Int+Proficiency); on a failed save, it falls under your control instead. That creature is aware of your attempt regardless of the result.

Your Imperial Engineer ability now heals for 3d8+Int.

(14th level) Superior Science: Manufactors learn secrets of the workings of the universe that enable them to perform acts that other Artificers would deem impossible without magic; unfathomably, they truly are accomplished with neither Arcana or Divinity, but rather pure scientific application. The following Inventions are available only to a Manufactor, and cannot be used by anyone but you:
http://i.imgur.com/oDrgJXc.png

You can now sense any Kauvic device within range of your Contraption Control aura, the type of device, and whether you have clearance to use it. This perception can be blocked with a solid inch of lead completely surrounding the device. Any device you can sense, you can attempt to activate.
Your Imperial Engineer ability now heals for 4d8+Int.
You are now able to construct the Clay and Stone Golems. Crafting a Clay Golem requires a base cost of 38,000GP, and you cannot be aided by any but a Manufactor of equal or greater level. Crafting a Stone Golem requires a base cost of 57,000GP, and you cannot be aided by any but a Manufactor of equal or greater level. In addition, you can now control 3 Golems at once, and you may actively control any of them with a single Concentration.

(18th level) Mind of the Machine: Your Manufactor implant has fully and flawlessly integrated itself with your brain. You now possess the cold, calculating logic of a machine, granting you greatly increased processing capabilities. You gain +4 to Intelligence, and your new maximum Int score is 24. You can add half your Intelligence bonus to all ability checks. You no longer require sleep. You have Resistance against Psychic damage, Immunity to Paralyzed, Stunned, and Unconscious, and Advantage to saves against Charmed and Frightened.
You can attempt to take control of any construct within your Contraption Control aura. The construct makes an Intelligence save (DC 8+Int+Proficiency); on a failed save, it falls under your control. A construct under the control of another creature instead uses the creature’s Intelligence save to resist, and that creature is aware of your attempt. You may control
Your Imperial Engineer ability now heals for 5d8+Int.
You are now able to construct the Iron Golem. Crafting an Iron Golem requires a base cost of 76,000GP, and you cannot be aided by any but a Manufactor of equal or greater level. In addition, you can now control 5 Golems at once, and you may actively control any of them with a single Concentration. You can now give them complex commands.



Also worth noting is that I use a specific set of crafting rules in my games, which is important given the additional class features I added.


To craft an item, make a Craft (appropriate ability modifier) check to initiate the crafting process. The DC depends on the complexity of the item. On a success, each day in which you spend at least an hour on the crafting project, you make progress equal to 5 x (Int+Proficiency) GP per day. This gold is expended each day in which progress is made. No further rolls are required to continue crafting the item at this default rate.
To finish the item more quickly, a new roll can be made at +5 to the original DC to double the crafting rate. That rate can also be increased by devoting more time to the crafting; spending a long rest on the project doubles the rate, at the cost of forcing a Constitution save against a level of Exhaustion (DC 15).
An item of great complexity might require a new Craft check each day, though failure only results in no further progress being made that day. If the material components are not in your possession but you could feasibly acquire them without excessive effort or time, the roll can be made at Disadvantage; on a success it is assumed you’ve found the materials you need. If the crafting requires any expensive material components, those components must be in your possession to make the roll, and they are expended on a success.
Magical items cannot be crafted unless you have the Formula required to craft it. To craft a magical item, you must have a spell (or several) cast appropriate to the item’s effect(s) as part of the crafting process. Similarly, Contraptions cannot be built without the appropriate Blueprint, and they require the aid of an Artificer to craft.
http://i.imgur.com/Yl1UZl0.png


♫ And that's aaaaallllll she wrote. ♫

festivemanb
2015-07-09, 09:45 AM
Arracor, do you not use Gunsmith?

I like those crafting rules--I'm going to prod my DM to see whether we can steal them. (Right now I'm trying to get a printing press off the ground. Calligraphy tools + simple machine.)

Finally, +4 to INT? Wowza.

Arracor
2015-07-09, 03:52 PM
Arracor, do you not use Gunsmith?

I like those crafting rules--I'm going to prod my DM to see whether we can steal them. (Right now I'm trying to get a printing press off the ground. Calligraphy tools + simple machine.)

Finally, +4 to INT? Wowza.

Quite simply, my setting doesn't use guns. :P As for the Manufactor's capstone, yeah. It's inspired mechanically by the Barbarian class, and the subclass is fully intended to be better than the others due to its greatly restricted access. (Only members of the Adeptus Manufactorum faction are able to learn the secrets of the subclass' abilities, and the Manufactors are strictly regulated/guarded by the empire they keep running. The lore drawbacks are a definite consideration in choosing the subclass over something less restrictive.)

ZinZenWho
2015-07-12, 10:51 PM
Glad I found this. I'm just getting my game off the ground (rotating DM, I'm first) and this more or less would perfectly fit into my game world. Thanks.

I'll see if I can swing this by my other players so I can be one when I'm up to play and not DM.

DiBastet
2015-07-15, 08:40 AM
Ahhh, nothing like having an editor. Your wording is a lot better and less convoluted than mine (I take you're a native). I believe mine isn't bad, but yours is simpler and more fluid. I'll steal some parts of your text to update the original and I'll even include a paragraph with a spell list for those who scream "omg any spell op".

Inchoroi
2015-07-15, 12:08 PM
Ahhh, nothing like having an editor. Your wording is a lot better and less convoluted than mine (I take you're a native). I believe mine isn't bad, but yours is simpler and more fluid. I'll steal some parts of your text to update the original and I'll even include a paragraph with a spell list for those who scream "omg any spell op".

I was wondering; I've got a player that's playing one of these now, but she doesn't think that the 14th level ability for Gunsmith is really appropriate for the setting (its not, but I wasn't going to be bothered). Any suggestions to replace it?

EDIT: I thought of bumping Elemental Ammo to level 14, changing it to 1d6 at 14 and 2d6 at 17, and then giving a single extra attack at level 6, how Valor Bard. With the Elemental Ammo and Extra Attack it brings the damage fairly close to appropriate levels.

DiBastet
2015-07-15, 12:33 PM
I have one design idea: "if in doubt extra attack as bonus action". You could work something like "Rapid Fire: after a prototype gun attack as a bonus action you can make another" or something like that. 14th level ability comes really late, and is mostly a small bonus with some strong fluff. Adding your INT to damage is nice but ultimatly small; your armor acting by itself is neat, but really not that powerful; using revivify for free after 5 turns is cool, but you could otherwise have a revivify prepared anyway. The mounted gun is the same: it sounds really cool, but it's more cool than useful.

I would give something like that. Bonus action another attack, or maybe expand elemental ammo so you can also use radiant, necrotic and poison damage, something like that, something cool but not omgop

Arracor
2015-07-16, 02:03 PM
Ahhh, nothing like having an editor. Your wording is a lot better and less convoluted than mine (I take you're a native). I believe mine isn't bad, but yours is simpler and more fluid. I'll steal some parts of your text to update the original and I'll even include a paragraph with a spell list for those who scream "omg any spell op".

Whoo! Author recognition. \o/ Glad I could be of service. (I actually had a lot more spells on the list, and ended up having to trim it because it had far too many per level. More spells than a Wizard, AND they're not affected by dispelling/antimagic? Yeahhhhhhhhhh no.)

PoeticDwarf
2015-07-17, 06:05 AM
Looks fantastic, this is SO steampunk.

There's already a wizard artificer, but this is clearly another thing.

DiBastet
2015-07-17, 12:07 PM
I'm glady you like it. And btw this artificer came before that. Check the original post date ;)

Edit: Gotta say however this is totally not an eberron's artificer. He can't do the "infusion" thing of enchanting items, giving +x and creating magic items and stuff.

Gr7mm Bobb
2015-07-27, 07:24 AM
Looks fantastic, this is SO steampunk.

There's already a wizard artificer, but this is clearly another thing.

*softly pats Ender on the back*

Yes EnderDwarf, this is more than what WotC tried to pass off as an 'artificer'. Great job DiBlast, definitely would love to use this in a game, if I do you will know.

Downtown
2015-07-31, 12:49 PM
I created a 5e Eberron style artificer starting with what you had here. So far my player is level 6 and after adjusting the number of infusions it seems to be balanced at this point. Any Comments would be welcome.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?411354-Eberron-Artificer

Discord
2015-08-31, 05:04 PM
So, just came across this thread from Reddit.

I got an amazing idea when I reached the Mechanical Armor innovation. Have a smaller creature, in a medium set of armor, acting like they are bigger than they actually are. I am pretty sure my DM would allow me to do this, going to be asking him soon. But the idea of a Gnome or Hafling (or other homebrewed small creature) in a medium set of armor to qualify as medium when in armor sounds really neat.

RockhoundK
2015-09-03, 09:45 PM
Is there a PDF of the finalized version? I would like to check it out and see if it suits my game. Thanks, RockhoundK

DiBastet
2015-09-08, 10:57 AM
In his own Artificer of Alancia hack, Belithioben wanted to play up the Iron Giant aspect of the Mechanist, and that got me thinking about something. In the original pathfinder version of the class there were exclusive discoveries for each main "path" the artificer of alancia could take.

One of the "paths" that the mechanic-armor guy could take was the Steam Guy with rapid-fire fists, thruster pack, eventual flying and such. Another was the Iron Giant guy that modified the armor to become large, had DR and basically played as a d6 HD tank. There was also the "army of smaller armors" build that had companion constructs and such based off on Astral Construct. There was even a "cyborg ninja" build with abilities that made the mechanist nimbler instead of stronger; one of them removed the extra weight and removed the armor penalty (translated as disavantage on stealth in the 5e version), while giving bonuses to agility related things. Things got crazier with following abilities that made you faster, stealthier and such. I remember fondly of one of my players playing an assassin like light construct armor mechanist (heavly based on the Crysis games). But I digress.

Back at the beggining of 5e we tried to go with the "less is more" approach and make the machinist a gestalt of the three main builds, so parts of the iron giant lived in the "use int in place of str" feature of the mechanical armor, the steam warrior guy is present in the mobility options and mechanical boxing aspect, and the iron commander in the construct armor acting as animate objects.

Looking back at it now I think that I could have done the mechanist like the Hunter ranger or totem guy Barbarian, allowing players to freely choose between two or three paths, like the iron giant, the cyborg ninja or the mobility focused guy. Anyway, I want to ask if there's enough interest in the mechanist for me to rebalance its features to allow two or three different paths of mechanical armor guy. What do you guys and gals think?

Gr7mm Bobb
2015-09-08, 12:25 PM
I would like to see the idea presented, with the original class still visible so there is the potential for a side by side comparison. So yeah, definitely has my vote.

Belithioben
2015-09-08, 08:56 PM
Machinist is the coolest vocation to me, so I would be very interested. Would you plan to allow people to shop around as they level up, or get locked into a build once they make a pick?

Belithioben
2015-09-08, 09:09 PM
It's also nice to see that my reformatting made it into the op.

Lappy9001
2015-09-09, 12:05 AM
I've been looking more at 5e lately and was thinking about updating my engineer homebrew to the new system, but you seem to have done a better job than I could have! I especially like how the dynamo cannon and mecharmor are adapted into different paths and the inclusion of alchemist stuff feels so natural. You even managed to do it without having a huge list of custom equipment (kudos!). I'm strapped for time, but I wanted to let you know how awesome this looks.

Absolutely brilliant work. I look forward to playing this :smallcool:

DiBastet
2015-09-09, 11:15 AM
Would you plan to allow people to shop around as they level up, or get locked into a build once they make a pick

Well, the other "choose your own" subclasses allow you to pick and choose, so I'm going to try that. Of course pick and choose is harder to balance and I can't build abilities that naturally progress, but my original Artificer has many exclusive discoveries to choose from so there's plenty to work with.



I look forward to playing this

It's a great day for the pupil when the old master praises him. We could say that my original pathfinder version of the artificer was the love child of PF's Alchemist mother with your Engineer father. As any kid it became something different than the sum of the parents, but I tried to keep the spirit of some abilities whenever possible.

I wanted to create two more vocations, one somewhat based on the steambeast concept (would be called Iron Commander) and one somehow based on neuroarcanics and the mecha calculator. Unfortunatly at the time I converted the class 5e was still too young and since it was the first complete 5e homebrew on the site I wanted to keep it simpler, abilities based on abilities from the phb and the number of new concepts to a minimum. In the end since 5e doesn't offer a good support for pet or summoner subclasses the spirit of the steambeast lives on the Construct Armors, and the neuroarcanics path is found on the routine discovery.

Anyway, I'm glad that the author of one of the inspirations likes it.

Lappy9001
2015-09-09, 09:18 PM
It's a great day for the pupil when the old master praises him. We could say that my original pathfinder version of the artificer was the love child of PF's Alchemist mother with your Engineer father. As any kid it became something different than the sum of the parents, but I tried to keep the spirit of some abilities whenever possible.

I wanted to create two more vocations, one somewhat based on the steambeast concept (would be called Iron Commander) and one somehow based on neuroarcanics and the mecha calculator. Unfortunatly at the time I converted the class 5e was still too young and since it was the first complete 5e homebrew on the site I wanted to keep it simpler, abilities based on abilities from the phb and the number of new concepts to a minimum. In the end since 5e doesn't offer a good support for pet or summoner subclasses the spirit of the steambeast lives on the Construct Armors, and the neuroarcanics path is found on the routine discovery.

Anyway, I'm glad that the author of one of the inspirations likes it.The steambeast companion got added way late into the class' design history and pretty much saw no testing. And I didn't see routine invention as neuroarcanics, so awesome.

As far as I'm concerned, you kept the spirit of the 3.5 version 100%. But at any rate, I'll stop making this about me any more than I already have though. I just got a little excited to see this homebrew :smallbiggrin:

Devigor
2015-10-20, 06:12 PM
I just wanted to say that your version of a grenade does not mention it as a consumable item... I think it would be neat for an Eldritch Knight to be able to call that weapon back to his hand as a bonus action to throw it every round, no? Though, once he has multiple attacks it'll be better to stick with other weapons unless a magical grenade can be used for multiple attacks in a round without using up the bonus action and action surge... Since he can bond two weapons, why not also bond with an arquebus... At level 8, have a level of Gunsmith Artificer, and seven levels of Eldritch Knight... Shoot a Fire Bolt/Shocking Grasp, then another one with Extra Attack, then another one as a bonus action if he has them as EK cantrips since he fires using his weapon, Action Surge to shoot two more... 10d10/d8 fire/lightning damage for a round, over five Fire Bolts/Shocking Grasps, across up to five targets, is NOT overpowered, since it's only once a combat, plus a Battle Master can do the same (though I have yet to see a Battle Master match the 6d10/d8 fire/lightning damage each round afterwards). It is at a nice distance, with some epic flavor, however. Since I am the DM and I find these ideas awesome (and I came up with them) I'm going to let one of my players try this all out. He plays a level 10 battle master fighter (tactician type) that honestly already more often uses steampunk/clockwork crafting anyway. This was pretty much the perfect class to swap his whole character over to. Thank you, most amazing sir, for your epic creation!

Edit: Also a quick mention for combining Find Familiar with Simple Machine and/or Simple Science for any who read this that didn't already pick up on it... If your DM allows your familiar to use a Mending gadget to repair and maintain the Simple Machine, you have no need to find an apprentice. Also, you can give each of your allies a Find Familiar invention... And each familiar can thus use your beneficial inventions... Giving you a lot of free extra concentration-duration buff spells. You could let your familiar use a Light gadget to give you vision for the arquebus's excellent 400 foot range. Really, the options are limitless: PERFECT for the classic artificer. Again, OP, I applaud your epicness.

Fralex
2015-10-20, 07:55 PM
Gotta say however this is totally not an eberron's artificer. He can't do the "infusion" thing of enchanting items, giving +x and creating magic items and stuff.

Keith Baker posted a rough draft for a homebrew artificer on his blog (http://keith-baker.com/extra-life-hacking-the-artificer/) a while back, which I tried building on here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/5earchetypes/showentry.php?e=71). In all honesty, I like your version more. I feel like mine tries too hard to replicate the 3.5e class. It did end up being the most-looked-at class on the site, though, so that's something.

DiBastet
2015-10-21, 05:19 AM
Stuff

Well you see, the grenade part is not really the intention. While it can be argued that since it doesn't mention then by RAW that's it, I think that's not exactly the spirit of this edition. But as you said, since you are the DM and you like people to figure those things then the only worthy reply is "sure, do it. Doooo it"; there's no wrong way to play rpg if everyone is having fun.

That said a free weapon that causes 4d6 could be a little unbalanced. Back in the Pathfinder days two of my classes, this Artificer and the Assassin, had a talent line that gave them free bomb or projectile attacks. They were based on the assumption that a talent was worthy a little around the same as a feat, and that a feat was worthy one or two cantrips (there were feats that gave cantrips back them, but cantrips were less useful), so a talent that gave you some at will combat ability was ok.

So both classes had this option to have weapon based attacks without the need for said items on their character sheet. The artificer had an at will 1d6 in 10ft radius bomb (that you could increase damage with innovation points), the assassin had an at will 1d4 ranged throwing knife (with his own gimmick); both had talent trees to expand on those abilities, like trowing multiple knives, gaining an extra throwing knife attack, changing bombs into smokesticks, flash grenades, etc. Back them with no useful attack cantrips it was a great idea.

Now with scaling, useful cantrips, along with a lower damage ceiling, the whole concept is better served with a cantrip-like ability; damage scaled to cantrip level but as a weapon attack. I would say that allowing the bomb as is would be a little over this power curve, and I would allow something like that but would scale the damage like a cantrip, first 1d6 then 2d6 and so forth as the character's bombs become more advanced.

That said, your idea of invention (maybe even routine) find familiar that mantains a Simple Machine back home is really cute. I picture a clockwork assistant that winds itself and performs repairs and can't stop smiling. Of course, RAW it wouldn't work because a simple mending isn't enough, you have to invest 1 innovation point and the familiar has none, but the idea is so interesting that I totally would allow that.

Now the army of clockwork assistants idea is... also amazing. Of course you would need time (if using Routine) or spend some invention slots during downtime (if not), but you could give the whole party their own "Clockwork Familiar Build Ur Own Kit" and also equip them and their familiars with gadgets.

Some GMs might balk at the idea of giving everyone access to some cantrips, but I picture the idea of an artificer going around the party camp each morning fixing their gadgets (remember inventions become inert after one day). True Strike crazy googles, Fire Bolt primitive flare guns, Message portable radios. Or having familiars use the equipment-based ones (since they don't have hands to activate the normal ones) and using them as drones. The possibilities are endless. And that's exactly the kind of crazy lateral thinking that an artificer player is supposed to have instead of applying brute force to solve things.

Unless of course you're a machinist. In that case you use lateral thinking and if that doesn't work you apply contruct armor level brute force...

DiBastet
2015-10-21, 05:28 AM
Oh, and btw support for this class isn't dead, I just have my hands full with some college entry tests right now.

As soon as that passes and I have enough time to finish working on it I'll publish a pdf with playtested exclusive addons like new innovations, alternate paths for subclasses, new subclasses and related feats.

And now that the rune scribe playtest is out maybe I'll even add a related prestige class. I'm dying to write one based on the simple machine idea...

Devigor
2015-10-21, 05:02 PM
That said a free weapon that causes 4d6 could be a little unbalanced.

By the time your EK can afford to buy a grenade (in the mindset, firstly, to test whether he can bond to it before worrying about just using it and wasting so much gold) it would be better to use a cantrip and bonus action his greatsword hit anyway. 2d10+2d6+Str is better than 4d6 Splash in most circumstances if your DM is playing his monsters the way they act. Goblins? Grenades are way better, sure. Expect them to make their own grenades, too, though. Gorgon? A grenade isn't as effective as just whacking it with a big stick (sword).


That said, your idea of invention (maybe even routine) find familiar that mantains a Simple Machine back home is really cute. I picture a clockwork assistant that winds itself and performs repairs and can't stop smiling. Of course, RAW it wouldn't work because a simple mending isn't enough, you have to invest 1 innovation point and the familiar has none, but the idea is so interesting that I totally would allow that.

That's EXACTLY what I thought up! Great minds think alike, sir! And even if not by RAW, I'd allow either the Mending gadget or for the master to send an IP to fund the familiar's repairs.


Now the army of clockwork assistants idea is... also amazing. Of course you would need time (if using Routine) or spend some invention slots during downtime (if not), but you could give the whole party their own "Clockwork Familiar Build Ur Own Kit" and also equip them and their familiars with gadgets.

Some GMs might balk at the idea of giving everyone access to some cantrips, but I picture the idea of an artificer going around the party camp each morning fixing their gadgets (remember inventions become inert after one day). True Strike crazy googles, Fire Bolt primitive flare guns, Message portable radios. Or having familiars use the equipment-based ones (since they don't have hands to activate the normal ones) and using them as drones. The possibilities are endless. And that's exactly the kind of crazy lateral thinking that an artificer player is supposed to have instead of applying brute force to solve things.

Unless of course you're a machinist. In that case you use lateral thinking and if that doesn't work you apply contruct armor level brute force...

Thanks! And then thanks again! I've actually built an effective boss for my group by having the multiple "stages" involving 1) removing crazy power armor (construct armor) from the enemy artificer and his allies, then killing their minions (familiars with equipments and such) so they can try and get to them before another suit of armor comes into play and offers protection again. All while in a shifting labyrinthian titan's tomb. It's going to be so fun! I'll let you know how this goes.


Oh, and btw support for this class isn't dead, I just have my hands full with some college entry tests right now.

As soon as that passes and I have enough time to finish working on it I'll publish a pdf with playtested exclusive addons like new innovations, alternate paths for subclasses, new subclasses and related feats.

And now that the rune scribe playtest is out maybe I'll even add a related prestige class. I'm dying to write one based on the simple machine idea...

I am currently in the process of changing majors and re-registering. Good luck! As for the simple machine, those things are gold mines. Especially if you literally make them mine gold. Make sure they have pinners, miners, carts as machines to move the worker machines, etc... Yeah I am addicted to this class. But it's okay, because the whole thing is widely usable in my setting.

LastElf42
2015-10-22, 06:03 AM
Oh, and btw support for this class isn't dead, I just have my hands full with some college entry tests right now.

As soon as that passes and I have enough time to finish working on it I'll publish a pdf with playtested exclusive addons like new innovations, alternate paths for subclasses, new subclasses and related feats.

And now that the rune scribe playtest is out maybe I'll even add a related prestige class. I'm dying to write one based on the simple machine idea...

Another person that signed up just to comment this post.

I have a history of making silly characters and doing dumb things with them. Half fire elemental monk. Arcane "electric" guitar playing bard that specialises in power metal. I saw this class and threw it at my DM going "I want to be Iron Man!"

Well he gave me the ok to do it (He may not understand what he's getting himself into). I'm just curious about how the machinist is meant to be able to handle ranged combat? It says no ranged inventions built into the suit. Basically leaves combat with shocking grasp, punching, and utility spells. I'm guessing this is for balance/uniqueness reasons with the Gunsmith having access to ranged inventions, but what about something like Burning Hands (wrist mounted flamethrower), Magic Missile (Pouldron missile launcher ala War Machine), Chain Lightning (Tesla coil somewhere?), Disintegrate (Palm lasers)? This is stuff you could effective build into the suit as permanent additions to it and still give you versatility against Wyverns and stuff that you can't normally reach. Or am I just misunderstanding the spell system (I come from a 3.5/Pathfinder background so still getting used to some of the new mechanics in 5e)?

DiBastet
2015-10-22, 09:18 AM
It says no ranged inventions built into the suit.

that's correct, it's niche protection. but nothing forbids you from building them as normal inventions; you just can't prepare them to use them on the fly, but you can still build and roleplay them as normal. i picture a machinist more like a 40k space marine, the spartans from halo or the jacks and mechanical suits from iron kingdoms (carrying their weapons) than iron man or battletech.

of course you can roleplay a gunsmith as a machinist with a 'offensive' armor, and the special ammo inventions as being fired from parts of the suit.

LastElf42
2015-10-22, 10:33 AM
that's correct, it's niche protection. but nothing forbids you from building them as normal inventions; you just can't prepare them to use them on the fly, but you can still build and roleplay them as normal. i picture a machinist more like a 40k space marine, the spartans from halo or the jacks and mechanical suits from iron kingdoms (carrying their weapons) than iron man or battletech.

of course you can roleplay a gunsmith as a machinist with a 'offensive' armor, and the special ammo inventions as being fired from parts of the suit.

Pre-post disclaimer edit: This descriptor kind of gets muddied up with the overall class idea instead of specific archtype discussions. As I say later on, this will be a gnome character, so the idea of going for machinist is that the character has a very strong feeling of hating being short. So he made himself a battle suit so he could join everyone else. Thus the mechanical armour making him stronger and tougher to counter his own size. Being a custom built battle suit instead of just a cobbled together bunch of equipment inventions he's added a bunch of different things to it like wrist mounted darts (Magic Missile), ray weapons, etc. Not just boot thrusters or a "Google Glass" style HUD of normal inventions. Basically I'm making him to be a tech caster, not just a gunslinger.

Anyway, on with the rest of the post.

My original hope for the character (Before I found this thread) was more of a tech ranger. A gnome that has an animated golem that he tinkers with and upgrades over time as he levels, maybe eventually being big enough that he can ride/sit inside it. It was a homebrew class back from 3.5 called the Inventor. Seeing this made me think of it more as an armour that gets upgraded and changed over time, much like the Iron Man suits over the 3 movies as he goes from Mk1 to Mk23 and so on. The same basic idea of it being tech upgrades that increase damage instead of skill upgrades (Sneak attack scaling per level, ranger pets growing larger, etc) like other classes.

So the thought for playing the character with this is less abusing the construct AI functionality (Which is probably why you can't put these crazy spells on it) and more being able to upgrade things constantly, so thrusters in the boots for leaping/flight, scorching rays in the hands, magic missile, darkvision/detect magic addon for the helmet HUD. Stuff that's all traits for the class but more RPed about the suit being the equipment instead of also having a bolter or chain sword as well. The ranged "spells" (Scorching ray, fireball, magic missile, etc) are all things that can be created as equipment but are limited to being "guns" instead of elements of the suit that slowly get upgraded over time. Like even Fire Bolt (Cantrip) can't be used but Lightning Bolt and Burning Hands can since they're self range just with an area of effect?

I would understand something like Charm Person having trouble being part of a big metal suit of hulk smashing armour. I'm just trying to figure out how the wording works for prepared equipment as part of the suit if we can use things like Burning Hands, Cone of Cold, Lightning Bolt and Prismatic Spray (All things that have the "self" range), but Fire Bolt is a no-no because it's a projectile. And even if it wasn't because projectile, Disintegrate should follow the same rules as Lightning Bolt since they're both "lines" in theory.

All of that being said, if you can still use standard equipment with the suit (Swords, bows, firearms) then what if the spell was just in that "form factor", so a custom crafted "rifle" that specifically shoots a ray spell using canisters of energy as the spell slot. That counts as an equipment invention even though it's the same shape as an arquebus and could be considered to be a standard weapon as far as the suit is concerned (The bolter argument of being a Space Marine).

Forgive me if I come across as stand-offish. I'm just trying to figure out the rules for how equipment inventions work vs the suit as far as combat casting goes. Obviously I understand the idea of "on the fly" bracers and jetpack modifications, this is just more embedding the weapon into the suit itself instead of as a handed item. Taking note that it will be a gnome inside a medium sized suit (Avatar mech suits style, medium becoming a large) so there's plenty of space for tinkering gears to fit it.

DiBastet
2015-10-22, 11:18 AM
Let me try to help you figure out how do you want to roleplay your character by putting aside all roleplay for the moment.

Invention: Similar to spell. First you have to "ready" the spell with 1 minute and spend the spell slot, then you can "cast" it with the normal action at any point before the next long rest.

Device invention: You must hold it with at least one hand to "cast" it. You must retrieve it before using.

Equipment invention: You don't need to hold it on your hand to "cast" it, but it uses the same slot as some magic itens. So if you have one on your, let's say, hands, you can't use another magic item or equipment invention on your hands. Some spells must be made like this, you don't have a choice.


And that's it, really. The rest is up to your roleplay. You could roleplay your fireball cannon as a portable handheld cannon, that you carry on your back (and maybe you spent two slots on it so you could have two shots).

Or maybe it's some kind of steampunkish portable shoulder cannon; you still "retrieve" it by locking it into position, and hold it with one hand (the "handheld part") to press the button or to brace against the recoil.

Now, let's say you're a machinist. One of the limitations is that you can't use "normal" equipment inventions (it says nothing about magic items so you can use them as normal). But what actually are those "armor upgrades", fluff aside?

Armor Upgrade: A limited list of spells that you prepare beforehand (kinda like a wizard) that you can "cast" without the 1 minute part but can only target yourself even if they are touch.

That's it, nothing more. The idea is that people will roleplay them as armor upgrades, improvements to his steampunkish armor. Maybe you didn't prepare "fly" on that list today, but you needed it and people ask where the krutz are your turbines, and you reply with something like "the jet propulsion 2000? I'm out of the alchemical fuel, the next batch isn't ready yet. I'll have to improvise", and then maybe you build a normal fly invention, remove your armor and use it.


Now let's think about the gunsmith's special ammo.

Special Ammo: A limited list of spells that you prepare beforehand (kinda like a wizard) that you can "cast" without the 1 minute part, but using the range of a prototype gun that you have on hand.

Again that's it, it's the only limitation. You could roleplay that your prototype two handed gun is built into your suit. If I was the DM I would allow it and keep the normal rules. You would still have to use both hands, it could be disarmed, affected by a rust monster and so forth and so on.

Then you could use your list of special ammo and roleplay it as different modules of your agressive mechanical suit. Fireball? Shoulder cannon. Lighting bolt? Tesla coil on your arm. Smoke? Grenade dispenser.

Of course you would still be able to create normal devices and equipments of utility spells, and even roleplay them as parts of your aggressive armor (and you could even take the simple science innovation and make "mark-friend" models that other people could use). You just wouldn't have them on the fly, so either you prepare them before the adventure or you build them with 1 minute as needed (and you could roleplay that as "booting up" a redundant system that usually is left turned off for reasons)

On the other hand the mechanist has the buff spells on the fly, but nothing forbids him from creating devices and roleplaying them as parts of his armor. Every day you create two burning hands devices? Your flamer gauntlet; as long as you "retrieve" them and uses a hand to activate them (meaning no two weapons or sword and shield at the same time) there's nothing forbidding you from roleplaying like that.

But then you think you'll need a lighting bolt and didn't prepare it beforehand. You say "wait a sec guys, I gotta divert power to charge up the tesla coil just in case", spend a slot and 1 minute "charging your teslacoil" (building the invention) and there, you're set and gets back into your suit.

What I mean is that in the end this class is supposed to empower your roleplay. One man's fireball might be a classic eberron artificer infused rune or syberis shard; another might be a wand; another a grenade; another a disposable rpg.

Maybe all your offensive inventions are the single badass "Multishotandkilleverything 2000", or a Wand of Everything (from here (http://www.myths.com/pub/comics/nodwick/Nodwick1pager340.jpg)). They all follow the same rule; you "build" it with 1 minute, retrieve it like an item, hold it in one hand, and "cast" it using the spell usual casting time.

Now, if you want to have both the on the fly offensive list and the on the fly self buff list, then that's something you can't have by both RAW and RAI. It's not a flaw, it's a design decision.

However nothing stops you from doing exactly that if you're the GM, or barring that asking your GM to ignore this design decision and allow you to use your list of armor upgrades for both buffs and offensive spells (or maybe go even further and give you two separate lists, that would be unbalanced however). I can't guarantee that it surely will or that it totally won't unbalance the game, but as everything it's the gm choice to change things.

For example, since AD&D divines and arcanes in my games had the same spell lists with only spells that directly mentioned something divine being exclusive to the divine characters. So my clerics always had fireball and teleport and my arcanes always had cure and revive.

That decision never broke my games. So if you must just ask for your dm to change something for you and go have some fun. Hope it helps :smallwink:

Devigor
2015-10-22, 11:21 AM
Stuff

Um... I think you missed his point completely. You could play a Gunslinger and just take a feat at say, 4th level, to give you medium armor proficiency. Nothing says you couldn't have the purpose of a Simple Machine be to "serve as power armor". 1.) Use an arquebus and ROLEPLAY it as if it were part of your Simple Machine armor (or even attach it, though that isn't RAW). 2.) Use all kinds of crazy spells through your attached weapon. 3.) Since your Simple Machine is a Medium Animated Object, you are now medium, with your medium armor. 4.) Have fun, sir gnome!

The main purpose of this class is to think outside the box. You got this, bro. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Swordsage'd. :smallsmile:

DiBastet
2015-10-22, 11:40 AM
Swordsage'd Stuff

I blame that a little on D&D itself; nowhere it says you can't refluff things, but in most of D&D history the system also didn't go out of its way to say "refluff what you need". Back in 3e I remember someone saying they refluffed a half fire elemental or was it fiendish elephant as a giant fiery hellcat monster from hell, and how people were inspired by that; or people against the idea that you could reffluf psionics as mutation-based superpowers with as few rules changes as you wanted, or none at all.

Or even 4e telling you to refluff the monsters to suit your needs. Need an assassin now? why not a babau minus the fiendish keywords? Or the monk's "exotic monkish weapon are effectively the same, no need for new rules for that. It's something that some systems fully embrace, but rare to find in D&D material.

I remember a campaign someone wanting to play a somewhat magicky light warrior, that used just small utility spells to compliment his natural abilities. Things like flash step, quick charms, things like The Witcher. He played a pathfinder rogue and we just roleplayed some of his talents as his spells. Most of the the time they worked as normal (10ft step? magical flash step); sometimes their magical nature gave him a little advantage on the fiction (can i flashstep over the hot coal without burnin my feet?), some other times the magical nature os his abilities would hinder him in the fiction (dead magic zone, the flash step won't work).

The player was happy and the game went pretty ok, but I remember a new player being shocked at the idea. Heheh, he woudld say "but it's not a spell. it's an ex ability", and I would reply "his is a sup ability; sometimes that is advantageous, sometimes it hinders him". It took him some time, but he finally learned to enjoy refluff, specially if it came with some minor rule switching.

Devigor
2015-10-22, 02:18 PM
I blame that a little on D&D itself; nowhere it says you can't refluff things, but in most of D&D history the system also didn't go out of its way to say "refluff what you need".

The player was happy and the game went pretty ok, but I remember a new player being shocked at the idea. Heheh, he woudld say "but it's not a spell. it's an ex ability", and I would reply "his is a sup ability; sometimes that is advantageous, sometimes it hinders him". It took him some time, but he finally learned to enjoy refluff, specially if it came with some minor rule switching.

Yeah, kind of sad, really. I know many new players who don't understand refluffing but they do it on their own a lot when you tell them to think up a character before they see the rules.

On topic: The PC using the Gunsmith is absolutely loving it, and he made an old artificer-built prototype howitzer shoot a meteor shower. THAT was quite the memorable way to take out a titan (custom giant monsters, not the ones in the MM).

DiBastet
2015-10-22, 02:33 PM
he made an old artificer-built prototype howitzer shoot a meteor shower. THAT was quite the memorable way to take out a titan

i'm so proud. now THAT is really like alancia. well that and later others turning that to war and killing fellow people over things like borders, resources, race etc, or forcing you to do it. it's a dark fantasy world after all, below the trappings of 'heroic generic land of adventure'.

Devigor
2015-10-22, 06:01 PM
i'm so proud. now THAT is really like alancia. well that and later others turning that to war and killing fellow people over things like borders, resources, race etc, or forcing you to do it. it's a dark fantasy world after all, below the trappings of 'heroic generic land of adventure'.

You'll love his actions, too!

"Logan, watching this monstrosity before him rise up from the deep rocks, seeing it is an E class Titan of 2,500 feet, delves at the strange device, and sees if it is a firearm of some sort; he sees the barrel, after all?"
Gunsmith kit check: 18+4 proficiency (level 10) vs. DC 10/15/20 for firearm/prototype/how to work it.
"He turns to his companions and nods. As a single tear slides down his cheek, the vision of his daughter being thrown by this creature's emergence, he aims it at the titan, and fires with a roar to match the howitzer's."

Bricez
2015-11-03, 08:43 PM
I'm glady you like it. And btw this artificer came before that. Check the original post date ;)

Edit: Gotta say however this is totally not an eberron's artificer. He can't do the "infusion" thing of enchanting items, giving +x and creating magic items and stuff.

I'm confused about how tonics work. Do they take up invention slots? If my rock gnome Gyro has a 16 INT at first level he can prepare 4 tonics but only has 2 invention slots.

Misty
2015-11-03, 10:31 PM
Pretty cool, man

Belithioben
2015-11-04, 03:52 AM
I'm confused about how tonics work. Do they take up invention slots? If my rock gnome Gyro has a 16 INT at first level he can prepare 4 tonics but only has 2 invention slots.

Think of wizards. Those 4 tonics are prepared for instant creation in the same way that a 1st lvl 16 int wizard can prepare 4 spells for instant use.

An alchemist can always build a tonic in the normal 1 minute way. However, if that tonic is on the prepared list, he can choose to build it in 1 action instead.

DiBastet
2015-11-04, 12:18 PM
clarifications

that awesome moment when users of your work are helping other users :smallbiggrin:

Bricez
2015-11-04, 01:25 PM
Answered

Thanks I should have paid more attention to the subclass 'tricks'. This class is amazing and I look forward to playing. At what level do you get your first 2 discoveries?

Devigor
2015-11-05, 12:52 AM
Thanks I should have paid more attention to the subclass 'tricks'. This class is amazing and I look forward to playing. At what level do you get your first 2 discoveries?

That'd be Level 2.

Magikeeper
2015-11-10, 12:21 AM
What are the multiclass requirements (Most classes require 13 in a single stat, some require 13 in 2 stats)? What proficiencies, if any, are gained when multiclassing into Artificer?

Pyrophoenix
2015-11-16, 06:40 PM
New player to d&d so im unsure about how a lot of things work but im currently playing as the gunsmith in the game im currently in and I was just wandering what are you able to do with the gunsmith kit?

DiBastet
2015-11-17, 08:23 PM
What are the multiclass requirements?

I'll add that. But it would be INT 13, and you should gain light armor, a skill from the class list, and one artisan's tool.


what are you able to do with the gunsmith kit?

It's the one you use to craft and repair firearms, gunpowder, bombs, accessories, cannons...

Pyrophoenix
2015-11-19, 07:11 PM
I'll add that. But it would be INT 13, and you should gain light armor, a skill from the class list, and one artisan's tool.



It's the one you use to craft and repair firearms, gunpowder, bombs, accessories, cannons...

So does that mean I can create the full on ammunition and guns out in the middle of nowhere or would I require a blacksmith area to make the bullets and guns?

Arkhios
2015-11-25, 02:09 PM
It strikes me a bit too powerful to have most of the vocations be able to hoard items equal to Artificer level PLUS intelligence. That would be, for example, 25 bombs at 20th level. I would lower the amount to Intelligence + 1/2 artificer level (minimum 1). 15 trick items would still be quite a lot, but it would feel more balanced, in my opinion.

PotatoGolem
2015-12-05, 11:33 AM
When do you get new Gadgets? That part of the table is missing.

ChocoPuppy
2016-01-12, 10:25 PM
When do you get new Gadgets? That part of the table is missing.

Nowhere I think unless you find a wizards spellbook and convert cantrips to gadgets

DiBastet
2016-01-13, 11:03 AM
You should get gadgets at 4th and 10th level. I just put it up.

Also as some people really asked for a pdf version, now you may find the Artificer of Alancia on the DMs Guild here on this precious link (http://www.dmsguild.com/product/170903/The-Artificer-of-Alancia).

The Artificer's additional material will also be available on the DMs Guild as soon as I finish my other project, the AGE of Darkness.

The-Magic-Sword
2016-01-22, 03:14 PM
So thats great and i'd really like to use it in pdf form, to add it to my collection of homebrew pdfs... but it's not in pay what you want format, it lists the price as being a dollar.

DiBastet
2016-01-22, 09:09 PM
Oh, indeed. It was pay what you want for the first day it was up, then it would be a 1$ "price". I mentioned that in the dmsguild and forgot to mention it here.

ChocoPuppy
2016-02-11, 10:00 PM
Is the table supposed to end suddenly at level 6? I'm guessing not at which then now you know about it

DiBastet
2016-02-12, 07:47 PM
Yes it is. As per the dmsguild rules I can only show short previews; in this case enough for an e6 campaign. You can find the completed product here: www.dmsguild.com/product/170903/5e-Artificer-of-Alancia

Pyrophoenix
2016-03-07, 05:24 PM
Hello again,

Sorry about this but both me and my DM are confused on how exactly the blunderbuss works. Is it that I roll what would be full damage with the shot is or do i just take full damage to be the highest damage that can be achieved by the blunderbuss?

DiBastet
2016-03-09, 04:28 PM
No worries.

You may load normal shots or pellets in a blunderbuss. If you choose pellets, instead of attacking an opponents AC, enemies in the cone make a Dexterity saving throw. Kinda like a spell.

Damage is rolled normally; if they fail they suffer the ammount you rolled; if they passed they still suffer half damage. It's good for when you think you'll probably miss; you know you'll cause at least half damage.