Ok people might yell at me for this but I need some homebrew help with 5e

[Ozreth]

I got a lot of flack for posting similar sentiments on the RPG.net boards so when it came down to actually home brewing these ideas I figured I would come here, as I consider GitP the king of homebrew :p

So, I like 5e a lot, but I've got two or three gripes with it. My first issue is a similar issue I had with 4e and PF. Cantrips never run out. Now, 2e and 3e being my favorite versions of D&D I don't like this. For the tone/feel of game I run and for thematic reasons I prefer wizards to lose magic ability after using it for awhile and then having to commit to a xbow or staff. That being said, I understand that their ability to keep casting spells is balanced into the math of 5e, and I don't want to gimp them. Can somebody think of a way around this?

Second is the healing. It happens way too fast and easily. I much prefer restoring your level in HP after an 8 hour rest, but I'm not sure how this would mess things up in 5e. I do have a feeling the DMG will have alternate rules for this but it's not out yet.

Now, I'm not saying I'm right or wrong or that everybody should feel the same as me, but this is what I'm looking for and I could use some suggestions. Thanks :)

[hawklost]

1a) I could see giving them a limited number of Cantrips per short Rest. Start with something like 5-10 and increase it every 5 levels. That would give them some oomph and staying power the stronger they got but limit them earlier on and keep them from casting Prestidigitation all day long.

1b) Another way, although this doesn't limit the infinite uses, is to give them a -1 to DC or attack each time they use a cantrip in a row. Want to attack with Firebolt? 1st time is +5, second is +4, 5th is +0.... wait a round (either +1 for each round or just reset) and its back up. This of course requires much more math tracking then before.

2) I am not sure how to handle the healing the way you wanted. With them limiting the number of slots a Cleric has already, it would mean that the party was injured for multiple days before they could go on. Some have suggested you only heal fully in a Safe Secure location where you have no fears of being attacked and otherwise heal only part it up each night in the woods but I cannot say how well this would work.

[lianightdemon]

The solution for healing is lower the cost of the healing potion. Then let your party buy as many as they need and get rid of the HD healing crap. They should be no more then 5gold each.

[Person_Man]

1) Spell Points. Wizards can prepare a number of spells equal to their Intelligence bonus plus their class level (including any 0th level cantrips they choose to prepare). Wizards get a number of spell points equal to their class level * 2. A Wizard can cast any spell they've prepared by spending 1 point per spell level + 1 additional point for each time that it was cast since their last Long Rest. Wizards can take a Short Rest to regain spell points equal to their Intelligence bonus. They can take a Long Rest to regain all of their spell points and choose prepare new spells. The spell point cost of casting a Ritual spell is only equal to the number of times the spell has been cast since the Wizard's last Long Rest, but it takes 10 minutes to cast and is always cast out of the lowest level slot it is capable of being cast out of.

Thus a Cantrip is free the first time it is cast, costs 1 point the second time, 2 the third time, etc. Casting a 9th level spell (or a lower level spell cast out of a 9th level slot) would take 9 points to cast the first time the spell is cast, 10 the second time, 11 the third time, etc.

In other words, use something close to the Monk's casting mechanic. Wizards still "run out" of spells each day, but its a relatively forgiving mechanic, and it encourages them to use different spells throughout the day. If you feel that it is too harsh, give the Wizard more spell points, if its too generous, give them less.

2) Healing Surges: Excellent 4E game mechanic that limited the total amount of healing that a player could receive before taking a Long Rest. I won't bore you with the details (which would be easy enough for you to Google) but it works very well.

[eastmabl]

My first issue is a similar issue I had with 4e and PF. Cantrips never run out. Now, 2e and 3e being my favorite versions of D&D I don't like this. For the tone/feel of game I run and for thematic reasons I prefer wizards to lose magic ability after using it for awhile and then having to commit to a xbow or staff. That being said, I understand that their ability to keep casting spells is balanced into the math of 5e, and I don't want to gimp them. Can somebody think of a way around this?

This gets math intensive, which is opposite to the goals of 5e, but you could Raistlin cantrip usage. If you say "magic sucks a lot out of you" and require a Constitution save for repeated cantrip usage, you might achieve your goal while maintaining fun.

Allow a certain amount of initial cantrips without a save - let's say 3 + Constitution modifier. After that, each successive use of a cantrip incurs a Constitution save. The Constitution save will start low (say, DC 5) and increase with each additional use (+1 to the DC for the 2nd use, +2 to the DC for the 3rd use, +3 for each additional use after that). The increase will be culmulative (so the progression will be DC 5, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20, etc). If you fail a Constitution save, you lose the spell as well as the ability to cast any more cantrips until you take a short or long rest. After a short rest, the Constitution saves start fresh again (DC 5 and scaling), while a long rest recharges your supply of initial cantrips.

As noted before, it's bookkeeping (but hopefully not too much), and doesn't outright restrict the caster's use of cantrips (there will come a point where you can't possibly make a save, but maybe you need to sit down and let Caramon brew you some tea). Since no base caster class* appears to be proficient in Con saves, the caster won't be passing these at a high rate. Because it's a saving throw, some fun things come into play (halfling's Lucky trait, inspiration). Can you imagine a player saying, "Man, I gotta use my inspiration to make sure this spare the dying goes off."

The other problem is that it might not seem rational (in our elfgame). Casters will eventually toss around higher level spells - calling rocks from space, raising hordes of skeletons with shortbows of DOOM and wishing the world's problems out of existence - so it seems strange that a cantrip might suck the strength out of such a mage. You could either tie the number of cantrips to character level (3 + one half character level, as caster level isn't a thing anymore) or your to highest spell level (you may cast a number of cantrips equal to the highest spell level you can cast plus your constitution modifier, because I don't want "1 cantrip at level one to be a thing"). Alternately, there are limits on your arcane/divine power, and you have probably blown all your magical mojo on turning the fighter into a red dragon.

[Ozreth]

1a) I could see giving them a limited number of Cantrips per short Rest. Start with something like 5-10 and increase it every 5 levels. That would give them some oomph and staying power the stronger they got but limit them earlier on and keep them from casting Prestidigitation all day long.

[QUOTE=lianightdemon;17981030]The solution for healing is lower the cost of the healing potion. Then let your party buy as many as they need and get rid of the HD healing crap. They should be no more then 5gold each.

I think I'm going to give these two options a shot. Thanks guys! Further input from others is still welcome :)

[MinaBee]

An idea for drastically limiting the healing by hit dice:

You can only spend a hit die to heal during a long rest.

Your hit dice pool only refreshes when you level up.

[Ozreth]

An idea for drastically limiting the healing by hit dice:

You can only spend a hit die to heal during a long rest.

Your hit dice pool only refreshes when you level up.

That's cool until mid levels where all of a sudden you would be gaining even less hit points than you did in pre 4e versions where you gain your level in hp back.

[Palegreenpants]

In my campaign, we make healing harder by requiring that an unconscious character be stabilized before regaining any HP. Of course, this only applies to characters who have been reduced to 0.

[Knaight]

As far as cantrips go, you could move to an encounter power of sorts - instead of actually casting cantrips, you cast a spell on yourself that lets you use the cantrips as abilities for a while. Three uses would probably also work, as the spell system generally gets to 3 uses of a spell. Each use would give 1 minute of whatever the cantrip is, but eventually the caster will be reduced to a crossbow, staff, etc. It would also allow preparing cantrips in higher level slots, but that's a meaningful tradeoff.

As for balance, there's a caster edge anyways. Balance issues are none to minimal.

Healing is a bit trickier, particularly if you leave the ample magical healing in. 5e appears to have the whole concept of X-encounters-per-day built into the system (which is why daily abilities are in it to the extent they are), and limiting healing interferes with that a bit. That said, something like level+con* in HP could work, though it's a bit weird in how lower level characters heal a bit faster. Another option would be healing 10% of your HP per day, rounded up.

*Modifier, not number.