Building a Brawler?

[Togath]

I'm building a brawler for an online campaign, but am having trouble choosing feats and stat layouts.
It's 20 point buy for the stats, starting level is 1, and most first party stuff from the srd is available.
I was planning human for the race, and using weapons(for enchantments) eventually.
Concept-wise I was wanted to play a melee character good with unarmed attacks or weapons like brass knuckles, cestus, katars, or tekko-kagi. Statwise, I was hoping for a sturdy* character, who could still deal good damage(strength and constitution? or would strength and dexterity be better?).

Archetypes(the ones on the srd anyway) are available, if any are particularly good.

*as in; can survive melee well, not necessarily "high hp/damage sponge"

[Novawurmson]

Str>Dex=Con seem like your main staples, with a splash of Wis for your Will save (and Monk feats, if you want 'em). Int of more than 10 seems unnecessary because of Brawler's Cunning (and 4 skills+1 for human). Charisma can likewise fall by the wayside.

Wild Child looks pretty interesting. Snakebite Striker would be amazing if it didn't give up martial flexibility.

There are so many ways to build the brawler, I'm having trouble making heads or tails of what's best.

[1pwny]

Well, let's see. I would (personally) recommend a Monk or a Fighter.

With the Fighter, you would go for (archetype-wise) a Brawler, maybe a Savage Warrior, possibly a Two-Weapon Warrior (if Unarmed Strikes count as "weapons"), or just an Unarmed Fighter.

For a Monk, I would say...um...something...? There are a bunch of Monk archetypes on the PFsrd, so pick and choose if you want. :smallsmile:

As for stats, well, I like being less MAD, and Dex is useful, so as a Fighter I every so often use Weapon Finesse.

[Novawurmson]

Well, let's see. I would (personally) recommend a Monk or a Fighter.

With the Fighter, you would go for (archetype-wise) a Brawler, maybe a Savage Warrior, possibly a Two-Weapon Warrior (if Unarmed Strikes count as "weapons"), or just an Unarmed Fighter.

I feel like the Brawler is strictly better than the unarmed Fighter, at the very least. Brawler's Cunning, Martial Training, and especially Martial Flexibility set the brawler a step up (not to mention unarmed damage progression+close weapon mastery, since OP mentioned using weapons).


For a Monk, I would say...um...something...? There are a bunch of Monk archetypes on the PFsrd, so pick and choose if you want. :smallsmile:

Now, the one thing I will say is that the Fighter and the Monk make excellent dips for the brawler - Monk is already so dippable since it's so frontloaded with goodies. Two levels of, say, Master of Many Styles are a great for almost any Brawler build.


As for stats, well, I like being less MAD, and Dex is useful, so as a Fighter I every so often use Weapon Finesse.

The problem is getting Dex to damage. If you've got access to 3rd party material, Dreamscarred Press's Path of War has the Deadly Agility feat, but otherwise, you'd have to wait for agile weapons.

[grarrrg]

Well, let's see. I would (personally) recommend a Monk or a Fighter.

I do believe she's referring to THE Brawler. A new class in the Advanced Class Guide.
Fighter can Monk can still be useful of course, both are good for a 2 level dip for extra feats and such, but it's up for grabs if that's better than straight Brawler or not.

[Starscream]

Str>Dex=Con seem like your main staples, with a splash of Wis for your Will save (and Monk feats, if you want 'em). Int of more than 10 seems unnecessary because of Brawler's Cunning (and 4 skills+1 for human). Charisma can likewise fall by the wayside.

I doubt my way of doing it is optimized, but I actually didn't worry about Strength very much. My goal was to basically make Ty Lee from Avatar the Last Airbender, so I prioritized Dexterity, allowing for lots of acrobatics and such. To make up for less damage, I wear magic brass knuckles and a Monk's Robe, meaning I do just as much base damage with the brass knuckles as I would with an unarmed strike, but can have magical enhancements much cheaper than with an amulet of mighty fists. Knockout also uses either Strength or Dex, and with Weapon Finesse I can add Dex to Disarm, Sunder and Trip, so I don't need strength for those. Also put the new Brawling property on the knuckles, boosting my CMB that way, and with Maneuver Training added on top of it my combat maneuvers are actually excellent even with low Strength.

Again, this probably isn't the best way to do it, but it made my character less MAD by a great deal, and meant I could afford a better Wisdom score for my Will saves and monk feats.

[Novawurmson]

I do believe she's referring to THE Brawler. A new class in the Advanced Class Guide.
Fighter can Monk can still be useful of course, both are good for a 2 level dip for extra feats and such, but it's up for grabs if that's better than straight Brawler or not.

Oh, that clears up somebody27else's comment for me as well :smallredface:

I'm thinking maybe Brawler 1/Master of Many Styles 2/Brawler X for a build? You could get Pummeling Style/Pummeling Charge at levels 2 and 3, respectively, so you could flurry on a charge at 3. Hrm. More of a damage build, though.

Unfortunately, that wouldn't make you as tanky (getting two levels of d8 HD instead of d10), plus you'd be losing two levels of favored class that could be put to HP unless you go Half-elf - if you think you won't need Pummeling Style/Charge until 8, you could skip the dip.

Edit: Oooh, I had not seen the brawling property. That's pretty fancy - it's kind of like the old dueling property. One of the things I really like about the Brawler is the ability to go "Oh, it'd be really great if I could grapple right about now." Boom. Improved Grapple. Next combat: "Oh, it'd be great if I could bull rush that guy off a cliff." Boom. Next combat: "If I had Greater Grapple, everyone would get an AoO on this guy when I trip him." Guess what? I've got it now. No one would have space in a build for all of those feats, but the Brawler can get them just as she needs them.

[Togath]

All useful advice :)
In particular the dexterity focused build sounds like it could be fun to try sometime.
Admittedly, I didn't end up using a brawler.. Though that's more due to party(oracle, wizard, and sorcerer were the people who had been selected so far... Ended up going alchemist to keep the "everyone's a caster" feel :3) composition than anything else.

[The Random NPC]

Well, if you don't mind, I'm going to hijack your thread. I'm building a shield throwing Brawler, and I kind of ran out of useful feats to take. Look in the spoiler for the feats I'm planning on taking, though I'm pretty sure I'm going to change the order I'm going to take them in. Anyone have any ideas on what I should take for the final 5 feats?



1
Improved Shield Bash


Human Bonus
Shield Focus


2
Shield Slam


3
Two Handed Thrower


5
Quick Draw


5
Point Blank Shot


7
Precise Shot


8
Weapon Focus (Shield)


9
Weapon Specializaton (Shield)


9
Greater Shield Focus


11
Shield Master


11
Point Blank Master


11
Deadly Aim


13
Pummeling Style


14
Rapid Shot


15



17



17



19



20

[Novawurmson]

Bashing Finish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bashing-finish-combat), at the very least.

Disruptive+Spellbreaker could be interesting, since you have the slots open for them. Clustered Shots for laughing at DR with your ranged attacks, too.

[Kudaku]

Well, if you don't mind, I'm going to hijack your thread. I'm building a shield throwing Brawler, and I kind of ran out of useful feats to take. Look in the spoiler for the feats I'm planning on taking, though I'm pretty sure I'm going to change the order I'm going to take them in. Anyone have any ideas on what I should take for the final 5 feats?



1
Improved Shield Bash


Human Bonus
Shield Focus


2
Shield Slam


3
Two Handed Thrower


5
Quick Draw


5
Point Blank Shot


7
Precise Shot


8
Weapon Focus (Shield)


9
Weapon Specializaton (Shield)


9
Greater Shield Focus


11
Shield Master


11
Point Blank Master


11
Deadly Aim


13
Pummeling Style


14
Rapid Shot


15



17



17



19



20




Depending on how your GM rules on Pummeling Style (does it work with all weapons/melee weapons/close weapons/only unarmed strike) I'd either cut it or move it up and take Pummeling Charge as well.

[The Random NPC]

Bashing Finish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bashing-finish-combat), at the very least.

Disruptive+Spellbreaker could be interesting, since you have the slots open for them. Clustered Shots for laughing at DR with your ranged attacks, too.

I generally shy away from critical feats, but since I have the feats, why not. As for Disruptive+Spellbreaker, I'm predominately a ranged fighter, plus I can pick it up using Martial Flexibly if I really need it. Also, if Pummeling Style is ruled to work, I won't need Clustered Shots, as they do the same thing. Though now that I think about it, I should just grab Clustered Shots in place of Pummeling Style and avoid the whole argument.


Depending on how your GM rules on Pummeling Style (does it work with all weapons/melee weapons/close weapons/only unarmed strike) I'd either cut it or move it up and take Pummeling Charge as well.

I'm not sure what Pummeling Charge would do for me, when all is said and done, I can throw my shield 200ft and suffer no penalties from it. I guess it could add another 60-120ft, but I find that combat generally takes place within about 100ft max.

[Kudaku]

I'm not sure what Pummeling Charge would do for me, when all is said and done, I can throw my shield 200ft and suffer no penalties from it. I guess it could add another 60-120ft, but I find that combat generally takes place within about 100ft max.

You are entirely correct. I was following two Brawler threads at the same time and forgot you were making a ranged build. Disregard Pummeling Charge, though I'd probably still check with my GM if I could use Pummeling Style with a shield.

[The Random NPC]

You are entirely correct. I was following two Brawler threads at the same time and forgot you were making a ranged build. Disregard Pummeling Charge, though I'd probably still check with my GM if I could use Pummeling Style with a shield.

Just did, he's allowing it with the close weapon group. He also decided that crit feats only proc once.

EDIT: I just realized I haven't given much thought to anything but feats, so if you guys have any ideas on other aspects, feel free to mention them.
EDIT 2: Took a quick look through the traits, only one that really caught my eye was Shield Bearer, +1 damage to shield bashes, and the ability to grant an adjacent ally +2 to AC for a round as a free action once a day.
EDIT 3: Here's a link to the Google Docs character sheet I've been using.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Agj6gAXrCfTedE1MUDRlSkhJTnY3U1VMemFnQ0JfR 3c&usp=sharing

[The Random NPC]

So I've decided to take Improve Critical, as (if I've done my math correctly) that'll bring my chance to crit up to ~50%.