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Shrew
2007-03-07, 09:47 AM
If you ready an action to counterspell, can use cast dispel magic from a scroll to counter another spellcaster?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-07, 09:54 AM
Yes you can. Counterspelling is a potential effect of dispel magic as it normally functions. You do not need to alter the spell in any way like you have to do with a standard counterspell.

However, I don't believe you can use a scroll to counterspell in the normal fashion (i.e. countering a fireball with your own fireball), as the rules for counterspelling (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicOverview.html#counterspells) say, "If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect." Having a spell on a scroll does not constitute it being prepared.

Nahal
2007-03-07, 10:21 AM
I don't know if I agree with that. The spell IS technically prepared, it's just prepared on a scroll.

Talanic
2007-03-07, 12:28 PM
I'd say that if you have the scroll out and readied, then sure, you can counterspell.

Not:
"I ready to counterspell."
But instead:
"I ready the scroll of fireball to counterspell his casting."

If the scroll wasn't a scroll of Dispel Magic (or similar) then you'd have to know in advance what spell was going to be cast. How you'd know this, I don't know, but if the enemy wizard casts Magic Missile instead, no dice--even if you have a scroll of Magic Missile, you don't have it ready.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-07, 12:30 PM
Well, it does talk about altering the spell as it is cast. The question is whether or not you can do this to a spell on a scroll. No idea.

Talanic
2007-03-07, 01:04 PM
I think I read that you can apply metamagic to a scroll when writing it, not when casting it. Since you can't apply metamagic, apparently you can't alter the spell. That would imply a 'no' answer, but I can't remember where I read that.

The obvious answer is "DM's discretion". RAW doesn't address this exact question...

Mewtarthio
2007-03-07, 02:44 PM
I think I read that you can apply metamagic to a scroll when writing it, not when casting it. Since you can't apply metamagic, apparently you can't alter the spell. That would imply a 'no' answer, but I can't remember where I read that.

The obvious answer is "DM's discretion". RAW doesn't address this exact question...

Metamagic actually strengthens the spell itself. You're only altering it a little. For instance, if you cast Plant Growth off a scroll, you can choose whether to improve crop yields or to create a small jungle.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-03-07, 06:22 PM
But those are choices to be made within the normal functioning of the spell. Counterspelling is a change made beyond the normal function of the spell. It's a special effect made with a specific action.

Redwizard26
2007-03-07, 07:15 PM
Though now that I think of it, counterspelling could be as simple as doing the spell backwards... oh and about metamagic on a scroll a wizard can't (without special abilities anyways) cause metamagic to alter a spell already prepared while he can still use that prepared spell to counterspell with.

alchemy.freak
2007-03-08, 12:10 AM
here is another one, how bout using Use magic device, to counterspell, it doesn't matter what the item is. i just have no idea

Quincunx
2007-03-08, 08:40 AM
Interesting point: There is no prerequisite for Improved Counterspell feat. It would be a blasted expensive way to counterspell, but there's nothing preventing your friendly spellcraft-rich UMD user (Cohortus Expendibilis?) keeping a scroll open, ready to counterspell.

Quietus
2007-03-08, 11:20 AM
I'd definately allow a player to counter a spell with a scroll of dispel magic, but I would only allow them to counterspell with a scroll they'd previously readied. As noted above, if they ready a Fireball scroll to counterspell, then they can only use it to counter a Fireball spell. But if they're readying an action to counterspell, they could use their OWN spells, but use the scroll in the case that the enemy does cast Fireball.

barawn
2007-03-08, 11:31 AM
Don't forget there's Improved Counterspell as well, so a scroll of Fireball could be a little more useful there (although why you're countering a 1st or 2nd level Evoc spell, who knows).

I don't see why you couldn't use a scroll to Counterspell, although that does open the possibility of a counterspelling Rogue.