Where does it say that a mount has to be bigger than you?

[Zaq]

Or even the same size, for that matter? The description of the Ride skill in the PHB just says "If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount (such as most bipedal creatures), you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks." But it doesn't say that your mount actually has to be bigger than you. The Rules Compendium description of mounted combat is similar; there's the same clause about an ill-suited mount translating to a –5 penalty, but I don't see any text about how big your mount has to be relative to you.

I'm pretty sure that there's SOME rules text saying that your mount has to be at least as big as you are, but I can't seem to find it. Did I just assume that such a rule exists, or is it actually not part of the RAW? If it's not actually part of the RAW, there are some fun consequences, but I figure it would be a good idea to check with the Playground before I start building anything too wacky.

[Extra Anchovies]

The 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide mentions an explicit size category restriction, in the Unusual Mounts section on page 204:

You have the final decision on what is or its not a suitable mount. At its most basic level, a mount should have the following characteristics:

Able and willing to carry its rider in a typical fashion.
At least one size category larger than the character.
There you have it; needs to be at least one size category larger, and DM has final say on what can and cannot be a mount. It also lists some examples for the "able and willing" criteria, and lists a CR criteria, but those aren't too relevant here.

[bekeleven]

I've always wanted to build a human with a halfling outrider cohort. It's actually a pretty solid build.

[Lightlawbliss]

technically speaking, it is given as advice to DMs for what can serve as a mount and not a hard and fast "this can and this can't" rule. However, the mount does have to carry everything put on it, including you and your gear, so that does limit your options if the dm does allow something same size or smaller.

[Nettlekid]

technically speaking, it is given as advice to DMs for what can serve as a mount and not a hard and fast "this can and this can't" rule. However, the mount does have to carry everything put on it, including you and your gear, so that does limit your options if the dm does allow something same size or smaller.

Technically speaking, every single rule ever printed in every single rulebook ever printed is given as advice to DMs and not a hard and fast "this is and this isn't" rule.

[Zaq]

Kind of weird that they would hide that rule in the DMG (under "Unusual Mounts," no less—what if you want a human on a riding dog instead of a horse?), but that's 3.5 for you. I knew there had to be SOMETHING to that effect. Thanks.

[cobaltstarfire]

Kind of weird that they would hide that rule in the DMG (under "Unusual Mounts," no less—what if you want a human on a riding dog instead of a horse?), but that's 3.5 for you. I knew there had to be SOMETHING to that effect. Thanks.

Even without that explicit rule, the riding dog is encumbered at 101+ lb's so it wouldn't be practical for most humans to ride one...might make for an interesting pack mule replacement though?

[Psyren]

If you're playing Pathfinder, the new ACG book gave us the Undersized Mount feat:


Prerequisite: Ride 1 rank.
Benefit: You can ride creatures of your size category,
although encumbrance or other factors might limit how
you can use this ability.
Normal: Typically a mount suited for you is at least one
size category larger than you.

[Fax Celestis]

Why...why is that a feat and not a Ride skill function?

[Tvtyrant]

Why...why is that a feat and not a Ride skill function?

I'm assuming because Paizo adopted 3.5's mentalities, and so if you want to do almost anything you need a feat for it. Sometimes I seriously want to take all of the bad mundane combat feats and make them skill checks under Martial Lore...

[bekeleven]

If you're playing Pathfinder, the new ACG book gave us the Undersized Mount feat:

Ok, my idea just go SO much better. A pair of halflings that dress up in a trenchcoat and pretend to be a half-orc. IT'S ON.

[Psyren]

Why...why is that a feat and not a Ride skill function?

The word "typically" suggests it can be if you (or more accurately, your DM) wants it to be. The feat is simply there to give you a permission slip for the more recalcitrant ones.

[Slipperychicken]

I'm assuming because Paizo adopted 3.5's mentalities, and so if you want to do almost anything you need a feat for it. Sometimes I seriously want to take all of the bad mundane combat feats and make them skill checks under Martial Lore...

Well, anything which the developers weren't thinking of when they wrote the core skill rules, at least.


Also, the devs are, for some unknown reason, loathe to patch in more skill uses unless those uses are so niche or ineffectual that they don't seem to change much.

[Shining Wrath]

A mount at a minimum has to not be past maximum weight when you, with all your gear, ride it. No riding warbeast chickens into battle while wearing full plate.
Saddles have weight, too.

[Extra Anchovies]

A mount at a minimum has to not be past maximum weight when you, with all your gear, ride it. No riding warbeast chickens into battle while wearing full plate.
Saddles have weight, too.

But maybe if you have enough chickens...

Now where'd that Commoner go off to?

[Crimson Wolf]

I have a way around this, feed the chicken a potion of ant haul. Boom problem solved :D

[Slipperychicken]

I have a way around this, feed the chicken a potion of ant haul. Boom problem solved :D

3000gp could solve this. Give it a Heavyload belt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-heavyload) and Muleback Cords (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/muleback-cords). Sure, your chicken will look kinky as hell, but now it carries as if it had +8 strength and continuous Ant Haul (x3 carry capacity).

If we assume chickens use raven's strength of 2 for now and are Tiny (x1/2 carry cap), it carries as if it had Str 10, x3 encumbrance limit... It's max weight is 150lb. Which is pretty impressive for a chicken.

If we use animal companion bird stats (str 10, small size), that means the items let it carry as if it has Str 18, x3 encumbrance, 3/4 for Small size.. That's 675, with a light load of 225. A small creature with a chicken companion could totally ride it into battle. Also fly speed 80ft... This might actually be a pretty good idea.

[Tvtyrant]

Well, anything which the developers weren't thinking of when they wrote the core skill rules, at least.


Also, the devs are, for some unknown reason, loathe to patch in more skill uses unless those uses are so niche or ineffectual that they don't seem to change much.

Because then characters are getting stronger for free!

I think attack on the run and whirlwind attack and all of the cruddy mundane melee feats become skill tricks or skill abilities.

[Killer Angel]

But maybe if you have enough chickens...


...you could use that war chariot! :smalltongue:

[Slipperychicken]

I think attack on the run and whirlwind attack and all of the cruddy mundane melee feats become skill tricks or skill abilities.

I think a lot of those should simply become core combat actions which anyone can do (mainly things like Power Attack, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot, Knock-Down, Short Haft, etc) just by virtue of being a trained combatant because those maneuvers are so basic IRL. Also, I like how 5e lets people take each of their attacks at any point during movement, obviating the need for awkward mechanics which try to combine the two.

[Dalebert]

I'm assuming because Paizo adopted 3.5's mentalities, and so if you want to do almost anything you need a feat for it. Sometimes I seriously want to take all of the bad mundane combat feats and make them skill checks under Martial Lore...

That seems like a reach. You can do what you want in your own game, of course, but a knowledge skill is not about doing anything. It's about knowing things. Martial Lore seems like it should just be about recognizing and knowing things about fighting techniques and what-not. There's a big difference between knowledge of techniques and actually being skilled in those techniques. Maybe you're right about feats being over-used but this seems like overkill in the other direction.

[Crimson Wolf]

3000gp could solve this. Give it a Heavyload belt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-heavyload) and Muleback Cords (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/muleback-cords). Sure, your chicken will look kinky as hell, but now it carries as if it had +8 strength and continuous Ant Haul (x3 carry capacity).

If we assume chickens use raven's strength of 2 for now and are Tiny (x1/2 carry cap), it carries as if it had Str 10, x3 encumbrance limit... It's max weight is 150lb. Which is pretty impressive for a chicken.

If we use animal companion bird stats (str 10, small size), that means the items let it carry as if it has Str 18, x3 encumbrance, 3/4 for Small size.. That's 675, with a light load of 225. A small creature with a chicken companion could totally ride it into battle. Also fly speed 80ft... This might actually be a pretty good idea.

Super buff chicken is super buff. Omg just the thought of this is hilarious but game wise is actual legal and plausible to do.

[Psyren]

3000gp could solve this. Give it a Heavyload belt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-heavyload) and Muleback Cords (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/muleback-cords). Sure, your chicken will look kinky as hell, but now it carries as if it had +8 strength and continuous Ant Haul (x3 carry capacity).

If we assume chickens use raven's strength of 2 for now and are Tiny (x1/2 carry cap), it carries as if it had Str 10, x3 encumbrance limit... It's max weight is 150lb. Which is pretty impressive for a chicken.

If we use animal companion bird stats (str 10, small size), that means the items let it carry as if it has Str 18, x3 encumbrance, 3/4 for Small size.. That's 675, with a light load of 225. A small creature with a chicken companion could totally ride it into battle. Also fly speed 80ft... This might actually be a pretty good idea.

Point of order: chickens would have either an avian or saurian (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#table-magic-item-slots-for-animals) body type, depending on your preference, but neither of those have the shoulder slot necessary for muleback cords. They could both wear the Heavyload Belt though.

[Slipperychicken]

Point of order: chickens would have either an avian or saurian (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#table-magic-item-slots-for-animals) body type, depending on your preference, but neither of those have the shoulder slot necessary for muleback cords. They could both wear the Heavyload Belt though.

Well, it is up to GM interpretation what's appropriate.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items#table-magic-item-slots-for-animals

Note that the rules in this section are merely suggestions, and ultimately it is up to the GM to decide what kinds of animals can use particular types of magic items.

And we could also go into custom item territory and make it a different slot instead. Neck or chest might make the most sense in this context.

[Chronos]

OK, now figure out a way to make a mount out of a molehill.

[Psyren]

Well, it is up to GM interpretation what's appropriate.



And we could also go into custom item territory and make it a different slot instead. Neck or chest might make the most sense in this context.

If you're relying on DM providence though (either to grant your chicken slots it doesn't have, or to approve your custom muleback belt) then this exercise is moot because they can just gran you Chicken's Potion of Elephant Strength that lasts 24 hours and grants them a 10k carrying capacity.

[Lightlawbliss]

If you're relying on DM providence though (either to grant your chicken slots it doesn't have, or to approve your custom muleback belt) then this exercise is moot because they can just gran you Chicken's Potion of Elephant Strength that lasts 24 hours and grants them a 10k carrying capacity.

I would say the dm allowing a chicken to have a magic item slot it may or may not have is much less game changing then allowing an op potion.

[Shining Wrath]

I think it says a lot about 3.5 that you guys are able to take a joke about riding chickens into battle and make it feasible.

[Necroticplague]

With some selective breeding, it can become pretty easy to have chickens hold your weight. Half-goristro changes size to Huge (and nets you the relevant ability bonuses along the way), which would make it easily hold your weight. Whether riding a gigantic chicken into battle is more or less funny than riding a tiny one into battle is up for the viewer to decide. Or sticking with all the PF being used, it could have the Muscle of the Society trait, making its strength 2 higher for its carrying capacity.

[Fax Celestis]

With some selective breeding, it can become pretty easy to have chickens hold your weight. Half-goristro changes size to Huge (and nets you the relevant ability bonuses along the way), which would make it easily hold your weight. Whether riding a gigantic chicken into battle is more or less funny than riding a tiny one into battle is up for the viewer to decide. Or sticking with all the PF being used, it could have the Muscle of the Society trait, making its strength 2 higher for its carrying capacity.

In b4 final fantasy