3.5 Gestalt Dragonfire Adept//Warlock

[ReluctantDragon]

Hola, Playground! I'm requesting a bit of assistance in an effort to build a character for an upcoming game.

Statistics:
All WotC sources including Dragon magazine
Pathfinder Feat progression
2 Free LA
Gestalt Rules are in effect
Starting at ECL 10
32 Point Buy

I'm seriously contemplating Warlock//Dragonfire Adept as I have never played either and it really seems to be a crap-ton of fun.

I've perused both relevant handbooks:DFA (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1101061), Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?252715-The-New-Warlock-Handbook-3-5-WIP).

However making it work in gestalt, particularly with above ruleset for chargen is somewhat muddled. Any assistance would be much appreciated!

-RD

[Glimbur]

It's a little painful to gestalt Warlock and DFA, because they both have something they would like to do every round (eldritch blast and breath weapon). But they also have invocations, which can be 24 hour buffs, so its not all bad. You might choose one side to focus on via feats (Psionic Shot, Mortalbane, etc for warlock or metabreath feats and however you qualify for them for DFA).

Con is nice, so I would suggest worrying more about that than Cha. Take invocations without a save and you'll be ok. By level 10 you have enough BAB to land touch attacks, so you don't need huge Dex. For a straight DFA I endorse non-proficient armor use: tower shield and full plate. Warlock complicates that somewhat; you might want to wear light armor and a buckler.

Free LA is interesting. You could go for stat boosts, flight, or something wacky.

[Red Fel]

Honestly? The first place I look when gestalting classes is synergy. Here's what I say.

First, class basics. There is redundancy of saves; you'll wind up with DFA's saves across the board (because Warlock's good Will save overlaps with DFA's). You'll get Warlock's 3/4 BAB over DFA's 1/2, which is okay.

Next, ability dependencies. Warlock is NAD by default, with a slight tendency towards Cha on anything requiring a save. Mercifully, the same goes for DFA. So either gestalts nicely with basically anything for a quick boost.

Next, class features. This is the "hmm" moment. You see, both classes are invocation users. On the plus side, invocations function, for the most part, like 24-hour passive boosts. So either can passively benefit you - again, making both DFA and Warlock effective classes for gestalt. On the minus, you'll likely see a bit of redundancy in your invocations. But the big challenge here is class abilities. DFA's major thing is the breath weapon, usable at-will as a standard action, which you can shape with various breath effects. Warlock's major thing is the eldritch blast, usable at-will as a standard action, which you can shape with various blast shapes and essences.

In other words - and this is the big point - one of your key class features (breath weapon / eldritch blast) will be incompatible with its counterpart. Both require a standard action to use. Both give you resources designed to make it more versatile.

So the first thing to ask yourself is this: How will I play this character, and do I actually see myself needing both? Frankly, Dragonfire Adept is pretty awesome on its own - you get the goodies of invocations, the versatility of breath shapes, plus you get the Dragontouched feat as a freebie, along with two good saves. (Bonus: Because Dragontouched is free, you can use your first-level feat to take Dragon Wings, preparing yourself for an awesome source of (Ex) flight!) By contrast, Warlock gives you a better BAB and Deceive Item, but its Eldritch Blast is more dependent on attack rolls than your breath weapons have to be. Are you sure you need both?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For gestalt characters in general, you want an active class and a passive class. An active class is what you're going to be spending your actions in combat on, be it breathing fire (DFA) or blasting enemies (Warlock) or casting spells or making full attacks or using martial strikes, etc. A passive class is something that gives you benefits without spending actions in combat, utility effects for outside of combat, and similar. Neither Warlock nor DFA is a passive class, so using this as a gestalt combination you'll basically be either a Warlock or a DFA in any given combat round, since you'll have to choose which class's abilities to activate each turn. I would strongly recommend choosing one or the other, and look into something like Factotum or Incarnate or Bard or a spellcasting class or even a high ECL race with a savage progression for a gestalt combination.

[Fax Celestis]

Seconding what Biff said, with an emphasis on Binder or Incarnate. Warlock//Binder has a very interesting Faustian Pact sort of theme, and Incarnate//Dragonfire Adept or Totemist//Dragonfire Adept has very tight I Am Become Dragons, Destroyer Of Worlds thematics.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you do use Warlock, you really, really want to take Enlightened Spirit in CM with it at your 6th-15th levels. Everything you get from Enlightened Spirit is a different class feature from what Warlock gives, so it all stacks. The bonus to EB is not a progression of your EB class feature and doesn't even increase your caster level. The bonus invocations are specific invocations and not a progression of the general invocations known of Warlock. Plus at 10th level you get a greater shape invocation from ES, giving you access to greater warlock invocations one level sooner. Your lesser warlock invocations will be one fewer than normal (but don't need to spend one on fell flight anyway, so no loss) and you'll have one more than the normal number of greater warlock invocations.

[Zaq]

Warlock isn't a TERRIBLE passive class—invocations are nice, after all, and there's no shortage of invocations that functionally don't take actions. You'd basically be a DFA who has way more invocations known than usual. That's not playing your strengths to the absolute fullest, but it's not a total waste.

I'm certainly not going to argue against the fact that another class would be a better choice—it most certainly would. But if you were stuck on Warlock//DFA for some reason, that's probably as good as you could get it—ignore EB, pile on passive Warlock invocations, and just be a DFA with a few more tricks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

In other words - and this is the big point - one of your key class features (breath weapon / eldritch blast) will be incompatible with its counterpart. Both require a standard action to use. Both give you resources designed to make it more versatile.
Ehh, it's not the worst. Throw out an Entangling Exhalation every 1d4 rounds, then switch to your eldrich blast. (DFA's breath weapon is disgustingly weak. Worse even than an eldrich blast, I think). Or if you decide to metabreath it up*, deliver a nuke-breath and shoot EB's until it recharges. Your bigger problem is probably that both options require investment to make them relevant, so you certainly want to focus on one or the other.

You'll basically wind up as a standard invocation user who actually has enough invocations to be versatile, which isn't a bad place to be. I mean, it's not the most efficient gestalt, but it's not that dire. Probably go Warlock/Hellfire Warlock/Legacy Champion on one side (keep that EB damage relevant), and straight DFA on the other.

Oh, and if you do proceed with this, double-check with your GM about how the dual-invocation progression goes. If you're unlucky, he might rule that you just get one combined list and the better progression of invocations known, which would take the idea from "workable" to "no longer a gestalt."

Or, if you go looking for other things to gestalt...

Warlock//Scout could work pretty well, I think. The blast combos well with skirmish, you get a better HD and plenty of skill points. Combine stealth skills with stealth invocations and be the sneakiest SOB in the party.
Warlock//Dragon Shaman would have the same flavor, but might be even weaker in the end.
Something melee-y (Warblade, say) would go with either class-- pick mostly passive invocations to buff yourself. Humanoid Shape or Eldritch Claws + Tiger Claw sounds like a winner to me.
Totemist and Incarnate are always good in a gestalt. Always.

[Shining Wrath]

There is a Warlock / DFA synergy, and that's the DFA Entangling Exhalation feat.

Breathe on them, tangle them up, then they are easy prey for the glaive.

No, it's not broken-good but it does let you switch effectively between DFA action and Warlock action.

Throw in the Draconic Aura (Vigor) feat and since you're Dragonblooded you become an effective healbot up to 50% of maximum as a passive effect - you can stabilize fallen allies simply by being within 30', then get them back on their feet and back in the battle.

Battlefield control plus minor healing plus the warlock's glaive. Oh, and you can use CON as your primary attribute which will make you tough as all get out.

[Socratov]

I agree with the reigning sentiment here. Warlock and DFA don't make the best of friends. Warlock and Bard, however, is a whole other story, as is Factotum, Totemist, Incarnate, Binder, Scout, Rogue, Psywarrior (go glaivelock, pick buffing powers, go to town). The problem is that the warlock is sort of a mini sorcerer: it can be anything you want it to be, however, if you want to be useful, you should be careful about what you pair warlock with. Also it's important to know what you think will be the active part of the build, what will be the passive side. Another good thing to think about is what will be your go-to action each round. How will you want your combat routine, out-of-combat routine and problem solving routine. Then see if you can incorporate them. Generally, classfeatures that require an action to use should be used on a regular basis. Else the class you pair with is a waste and has too much overlap. Famous examples include ToB classes and full casters. The actions don't line up and they waste each other's finer points, which is a pity.