polymorp into pun-pun

[With a box]

I heard that any 17th wizard can became a pun-pun (by a lot of cheese) if they want to. is that true?

[Lightlawbliss]

I heard that any 17th wizard can became a pun-pun (by a lot of cheese) if they want to. is that true?

the level of cheese is only slightly less the the cheese required to become pun pun at level 1. You are casting the spell instead of using an item to cast the spell.

[sideswipe]

if i am correct, pun-puns hit dice are within the limit of shapechange. so rather than shenanigans, could he just not shapechange into pun-pun himself?

edit - forgot, no uniques

[Aliek]

There are a lot of ways to achieve pun-pun at wiz17. Gate being the same thing as the lv1 kobold paladin, then there's ice assassin and a whole lot of others I have no idea about :smallbiggrin:

[Prime32]

I heard that any 17th wizard can became a pun-pun (by a lot of cheese) if they want to. is that true?The Pun-Pun trick is just "shapechange into a sarrukh". Lv17 wizard was the first build, then came attempts to do it faster.

[ryu]

The Pun-Pun trick is just "shapechange into a sarrukh". Lv17 wizard was the first build, then came attempts to do it faster.

I thought the history was the originator of the idea finding the ability, then doing it with a kobold psion? I mean I suppose he could've had a simpler first model, but that wasn't the version I was told.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

I believe the first method to be called Pun-Pun was Caelic's Divine Minion Kobold Wizard 1/MoMF 3.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Nah, I'm pretty sure the first one was the Wizard 17 route, because the trick for arbitrarily high stats require some familiar abuse (something to do with the fact the Manipulate Form ability can't make stats higher than the user of the ability, so some sort of loop is required).

[nyjastul69]

There is a bit of history here ( http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1013486) and here ( http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Pun-Pun). I don't know what 1d4chan is so I can't speak to it's veracity. I thought the links might be helpful though.