PDA

View Full Version : DM Help Subtly altering character outlook



Gnoman
2014-08-22, 09:57 PM
One of the characters in my campaign is currently in possession of a fairly powerful magical item that the character has been using quite unconcernedly (It's not actually possible for her not to use it unless deliberately trying, and either her or her player simply hasn't considered trying to do so. It's intended to be fairly insiduous, and addictive.) One of the effects of the item, aside from becoming addicted to it (which will be a real problem for her when it wears out (something else she or her player doesn't seem to have considered)) is that the item is fundamentally Evil and using it under most circumstances slowly corrupts the user's soul.

The difficulty is how, without informing the player explicitly, I can portray that. Perhaps a lack of "taint' when she isn't in possession of it (or tries not to use it) would do, and there's the old trick of telling the player that she is experiencing atypical emotions at something, but I don't have any other ideas.

Demidos
2014-08-23, 01:12 AM
Trips a paladin's evil radar?

Starts hearing (evil) voices encouraging him/her to commit crimes?

Slight hesitation on the item's part before the item does a good deed/or just in general, to portray uses running out. The item just activates slower than usual.

Small penalties when using other items, or if they havent used the item in a while?

Macros
2014-08-23, 02:59 AM
Perhaps have the item use the Pavlov's method : if the player uses it for good things, she gets slightly punished or bothered. If the player uses it for evil things, she gets rewarded instead. Start small, with gradual increases, be consistent, and your player's action might actually shift to aim for the "rewarding" actions.

Not foolproof, and greatly depend on your player, but it could work, I think.

Jay R
2014-08-24, 08:53 AM
If she ever says some version of , "Oh, but I shouldn't do that," you can reply, "Actually, for some reason, it seems OK this time." Ideally, you slowly relax the stricture of he r alignment, until it's clear that you weren't relaxing them; she was changing.

This will require an extremely skilled and subtle DM.

Ettina
2014-08-24, 09:17 AM
Perhaps have the item use the Pavlov's method : if the player uses it for good things, she gets slightly punished or bothered. If the player uses it for evil things, she gets rewarded instead. Start small, with gradual increases, be consistent, and your player's action might actually shift to aim for the "rewarding" actions.

Not foolproof, and greatly depend on your player, but it could work, I think.

That's a really good idea. People are surprisingly sensitive to conditioning, if you don't let them know you're doing it. I know of a psychology teacher who ended up giving his lectures standing in the doorway of his class because his students decided to condition him by looking attentive when he was closer to the door and bored when he moved away from the door.

Red Fel
2014-08-24, 04:48 PM
I find that giving a character the means, opportunity, and incentive to compromise their morals is all that it takes. You'd be amazed how easy it is to mess with a person's moral compass that way.

Start with a simple question: Ask yourself what moral lines exist that this PC has historically been unwilling to cross. Never target women or children? Never leave an innocent undefended? Never tell a lie? Figure out what those lines are.

Next, create a scenario in which it would be beneficial to cross that line. The ideal method is for the magic item to enable this process. For example, for a character who does not tell lies, have a party member get arrested for doing something (probably) illegal, put this character in a position to bail that party member out by giving a fake alibi. Then, have the magic item give a massive bonus to the Bluff check. The item makes it almost foolproof. All the PC has to do is lie. Afterwards, have the incident be completely consequence-free - you told the lie, your friend got off, and nothing bad happened as a result.

And just like that, the line is crossed, and we start our merry way down the slippery slope. After that, it's simply a question of offering one compromise after another. I know you don't kill children, but if you don't kill this one, thousands more will die. I know you don't abandon the innocent, but you have to choose between the man buried under the collapsing building or your partymember. And so on. Each time, the item provides the power necessary to make the morally wrong or ambiguous choice. And each time, you have incentivized descent.

Eventually, it becomes clear that morals don't work; they are an impractical limitation. The PC should come to realize just how much easier things are if you don't let those little moral considerations hold you back from more pragmatic decisions. That it's okay to lie, cheat, steal, even murder, for the greater good. (The "greater good" is one of the best lies those on a moral slippery slope tell themselves.)

Once they believe that, mission accomplished.

Geostationary
2014-08-25, 10:08 AM
So two questions: What's the actual item? All we know is that it's addictive and EEEEEVIIIIILL, so knowing what it is/actually does may help if you want scenarios made, and

Why the secrecy? Shifting character alignment as detected is simple; shifting character action is difficult without the player being on-board can be difficult, especially if they aren't interested, and their collusion may make things run even better.

Gnoman
2014-08-25, 02:14 PM
The secrecy is because I don't want the party to know what the item is, what it does, or how long it lasts until they either devote effort into figuring it out (they have several clues already, and will be getting more) or the plot reveals it.

As for the item itself:

It's a red stone set into a socket on a sword sword, among other magical (which are both benificial and Neutrally aligned) gems. The wielder of the sword hears a constant whispering and buzzing unless she successfully makes a DC 20 will save, under which circumstance she recognizes the sounds as babbling voices that spout nonsense and out-of-context phrases. The effect of the stone is to power the user's magic until it is depleted, by drawing on its own power source. That power source is the shattered fragments of the souls of people caught up in an extremely vile, extremely destructive spell that was used heavily by the forces of an Evil god during the last days of the apocalyptic Second Titan War a century before the game. Use of souls to power magic (or anything else), is generally Evil, although certain extenuating circumstances could offset or negate the Evil (if, for example, the stone was used to prevent the creation of another stone). It is also addictive, as any attempt to do magic (outside of another source that's just being introduced into the campaign, the resurgence of ancient lost magic is a big theme) without using it while you have such a stone requires a will save (DC0+(1 for every ten times you've used the stone)) to avoid using it unwillingly. This particular stone was naturally formed, and is fairly weak, particularly because it uses fragments instead of entire souls. A deliberately manufactured stone, made with entire souls from intentional sacrifice, would be several orders of magnitude more powerful, and far more corrupting.

It's not entirely an original idea, and I've modified it a fair bit to conform with the more familiar pop-culture version to help the players figure it out.

tahu88810
2014-08-25, 04:24 PM
The secrecy is because I don't want the party to know what the item is, what it does, or how long it lasts until they either devote effort into figuring it out (they have several clues already, and will be getting more) or the plot reveals it.

As for the item itself:

It's a red stone set into a socket on a sword sword, among other magical (which are both benificial and Neutrally aligned) gems. The wielder of the sword hears a constant whispering and buzzing unless she successfully makes a DC 20 will save, under which circumstance she recognizes the sounds as babbling voices that spout nonsense and out-of-context phrases. The effect of the stone is to power the user's magic until it is depleted, by drawing on its own power source. That power source is the shattered fragments of the souls of people caught up in an extremely vile, extremely destructive spell that was used heavily by the forces of an Evil god during the last days of the apocalyptic Second Titan War a century before the game. Use of souls to power magic (or anything else), is generally Evil, although certain extenuating circumstances could offset or negate the Evil (if, for example, the stone was used to prevent the creation of another stone). It is also addictive, as any attempt to do magic (outside of another source that's just being introduced into the campaign, the resurgence of ancient lost magic is a big theme) without using it while you have such a stone requires a will save (DC0+(1 for every ten times you've used the stone)) to avoid using it unwillingly. This particular stone was naturally formed, and is fairly weak, particularly because it uses fragments instead of entire souls. A deliberately manufactured stone, made with entire souls from intentional sacrifice, would be several orders of magnitude more powerful, and far more corrupting.

It's not entirely an original idea, and I've modified it a fair bit to conform with the more familiar pop-culture version to help the players figure it out.

I can't really help you here, but I like this idea so much that I think I'm going to steal it.

JusticeZero
2014-08-25, 06:47 PM
Alter the perception of the world. People who would ordinarily be good and sympathetic, play as shrill, unsympathetic and unlikable. They actually did the same things they were doing before when she was all about helping them, but now they all sound like they are covering up evil misdeeds and cruelty... badly.

Rack
2014-08-28, 07:14 AM
Alter the perception of the world. People who would ordinarily be good and sympathetic, play as shrill, unsympathetic and unlikable. They actually did the same things they were doing before when she was all about helping them, but now they all sound like they are covering up evil misdeeds and cruelty... badly.

That's what I would do, maybe give the item a (false) bonus to sense motive. You can then use that to feed the player with the sword a huge amount of false information.

On the other hand I wouldn't. Player Characters should be exclusively the players domain, when the dm is trying to control all the npcs in the world, the world itself and the player characters he strays dangerously close to playing solitaire. The opportunity to play with his characters own corruption is a great one for a player to have and it's selfish of a dm to take it.

JusticeZero
2014-08-28, 01:48 PM
It's still the player doing it. The players have a very limited amount of information about the world given to them by the GM. The information the GM gives the players to run their characters is inevitably biased; it is impossible for that information not to have bias to it as it is packaged by the GM. If you want to show a subtly shifted outlook, simply altering that bias will be likely to create that effect, but will not be any more controlling than normal.

Segev
2014-08-28, 03:19 PM
Is the item even semi-sentient, or is its evil wholly passive?

If it could be said to "want" to re-empower itself, perhaps it has, on some level, a drive to make itself "deliberately crafted."

Actions that lead closer to creating the circumstances to even accidentally re-create it get a little more...oomph. It's willing to use more of its power for this.

As for addictiveness...I think you'll find the psychological addiction for the player is very real. Create a mild limitation to how it CAN be used, and your player will find ways to make that limitation be met so it's useable.

How can it be recharged? How could a "deliberate" one be made? Maybe the item begins to draw true reprobates to the user's attention. People who will escape to do more harm if not executed. Preferably with the sword. Fragments, initially, as unintentional "sacrifices" are made, but ramp it up so that powerful evil threats who will just return via resurrection or the like are eventually faced. These must be sacrificed in a way that traps their souls. And that is a power this gem just happens to have......