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Tola
2007-03-07, 01:13 PM
There are two feats that appeared in the PC RPG Neverwinter Nights-specifically, introduced in the expansion 'Shadows of Undrentide'. I'm wondering if they were 'real': that is, they appeared in official books or anything. Whether they were, and didn't make it to 3.5, whether they never existed, whether they made the leap to 3.5 and were changed...this is what I'm interested in.

Text is taken from the Shadows of Undrentide manual.

1.Circle Kick
Requirements: Dex 15+, Base attack bonus +3, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Type: General
Description: If the character succesfully hits an opponent with an unarmed strike, they may make an additional free attack against another nearby enemy. There is a limit of one free attack per round.

2. Zen Archery
Requirements: Wis 13+, Base attack bonus +3
Type General.
Description: Wisdom guides the character's ranged attacks, allowing them to use their Wisdom modifier in place of their Dexterity modifier when firing ranged weapons.

Thank you for your time.

Altair_the_Vexed
2007-03-07, 01:16 PM
There were feats by those names in 3rd Ed Oriental Adventures, but they were more powerful, with higher prerequisites.

Not seem them since 3.5 though.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-03-07, 01:16 PM
Zen Archery is on p106 of Complete Warrior, although it only needs 1 BAB.
I don't know about the other, although I feel I've seen it somewhere.

Person_Man
2007-03-07, 01:18 PM
Both Exist. Circle Kick is 3.0, from Sword and Fist, and thus many DMs won't allow it.

Zen Archery is in Sword and Fist AND 3.5 Complete Warrior. Its a staple of many Cleric Archer builds.

NEO|Phyte
2007-03-07, 01:19 PM
1.Circle Kick
Requirements: Dex 15+, Base attack bonus +3, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Type: General
Description: If the character succesfully hits an opponent with an unarmed strike, they may make an additional free attack against another nearby enemy. There is a limit of one free attack per round.

Closest I know of is Roundabout kick, in CWar. Only works on a crit, and needs to hit the same enemy, but no limit on how many times in a round you can use it.

Tola
2007-03-07, 01:23 PM
Both Exist. Circle Kick is 3.0, from Sword and Fist, and thus many DMs won't allow it.

????

What happened there? Can you explain? Why didn't it make the jump?

AtomicKitKat
2007-03-07, 01:58 PM
I think because firstly, it required you to be "surrounded"(which, as most people here will eagerly point out, sucks for a 3/4 BAB d8 HD class). Secondly, it allowed you to add another "flurry" hit(without a penalty), increasing the Monk's number of attacks per round(albeit in only a few situations). Roundabout Kick is probably the evolution of that, somewhat similar to Lightning Mace(potentially infinite number of hits), but having a rarer trigger(critical as opposed to "anytime you land an unarmed hit")

Someone want to post a link to the list of Feats that got updated/ported from 3.0/3.5?

Darrin
2007-03-07, 02:17 PM
What happened there? Can you explain? Why didn't it make the jump?

Some customers are very sensitive about "double-dipping" or rebuying the same material twice. Thus, WotC can be very picky about what Feats, PrCs, etc. it ports over to 3.5. Sometimes it's a balance issue, sometimes the flavor doesn't fit the new edition, sometimes it's just there wasn't enough room in the new Complete Left-Handed-Dental-Hygenist-Who-Likes-Kumquats to include a lot of older material.

The "officialness" of 3.0 material can be doubtful, and varies from DM to DM.

"Snap Kick" in Tome of Battle may be a bit easier to use if you're looking for a replacement. Make an extra unarmed attack, but -2 to all your other attacks (essentially Flurry of Blows that even non-monks can use).

Person_Man
2007-03-07, 04:47 PM
Both Exist. Circle Kick is 3.0, from Sword and Fist, and thus many DMs won't allow it.

????

What happened there? Can you explain? Why didn't it make the jump?

What Darrin said is correct. Who knows why WotC didn't reprint it.

3.0 material is generally excluded by many (though by no means all) DMs, usually because its too powerful, has already been re-printed in a slightly different way somewhere else in 3.5, sometimes under a different name or in a less powerful version, or because it conflicts with 3.5 rules. There are a lot of different reasons.

I would also add that its considered poor form on the optimization boards to suggest using 3.0 material, just like its poor form to suggest world specific material (Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk) unless the OP specifically states that they're playing in that world. Since its unlikely that the OP will be able to use the material, you're just wasting their time and possibly confusing newer players.

But again, it varies widely between DM's. There are several regulars on this board who definitely include 3.0 material in their game, and I'm sure one of them will chime in and quote the section of the DMG which states that 3.0 material is valid unless it specifically conflicts with a 3.5 rule.

Quietus
2007-03-08, 10:22 AM
I wouldn't start getting rules lawyer-y, but I will say that my games tend to use the old 3.0 material, and DISALLOW the "Complete" series of books. My DMs and I agree that there's just a whole pile of one-upmanship in the Complete series, and that allowing them lets characters get extremely overpowered, very quickly. I do get to use some of the material on occasion, but it's on a case-by-case basis.

Roderick_BR
2007-03-08, 12:33 PM
It was basically a "whirlwind attack" move, with fewer requisites, and worked only for unarmed attacks.
As a rule of thumb, my group allows the use of any 3.0 material that was not updated, and using the 3.5 material that was.