protect someone without spoiling their adventure.

[With a box]

let's say your 14th cleric who fighted against elder evil has a 3rd level sorcerer son. and he is on adventure with his teammate(also 3rd). he will be easy target for enemy of cleric.
what I want to ask: Is there a way to protect against old black dragon(or anyone else.) want to roast his son while son get xp from color spraying a troll?

[Beneath]

The best I can think of would be to be proactive; figure out who your enemies are, and make sure they're otherwise engaged during the kid's adventures.

That or making sure they don't know about the kid.

Failing that, you can make sure they know you have people who can teleport to the rescue at a moment's notice if they try anything. It'd mean the kid would have a chance of suddenly being caught between a band of high-level adventurers and a dragon that came out of nowhere, though.

[Spindrift]

Maybe some kind of resillient sphere contingency could help, not sure how you'd rig that up though.

But then they wouldn't be able to do much unless they have a gaze attack

[ahenobarbi]

Astral Projection + contingent Revivify on the original body (which you keep with you). Roghly as secure as having the kid with you all the time (well the kid might die but it's pretty unlikely and it won't be dead for long (and without any negative effects)).

[Kol Korran]

You can come up with some protective spells, and the enemies might as well, and so you are in a sort of an arms race.
I'm not sure if this for your own character, or a theoretical question, perhaps from a DM's POV, trying to justify this so there won't be "plot holes".

if it's the second, then I'll suggest to think of the "Balance of terror", that used to be between so many great powers, includign in our world.

Why didn't the USA and the old Russian union blast each other to kingdom come with their nukes? Because they both knew that if they will, that the other side will demolish them as well.

Why did the USA bomb Hiroshima and Nagaski, and not Kyoto or Tokyo? Because than the Japanese will have nothing left to lose, and will never surrender. As long as there was a threat to something they held more dear...

And I'm sure you'll find LOTS of examples in history or current day affairs, the basic principle is this: To each side of a fairly matched conflict, there are some lines, that are red lines. You just don't cross because that would mean the other side will cross YOUR red lines, and will strike at the most important things for you. An all out, nothing-to-lose war. When each enemy has something to lose (And I suggest the cleric's enemy something still precious to them) then the fight can be constrained.

Note that there a few exceptions:
1) Fanatics and mad people. Most factions in the world have them, and it's up to more reasonable folks to try and control them. (Good hook for PCs!) This does not always succeed.
2) If one side is fare more powerful than the other, and can easily extinguish the other. In that case, only the strong side's morality may stop it.

I'll take for example the case of the black dragon. Perhaps it too has offsprings? Either smaller dragons (Which the cleric may let live, since they caused no great evil yet), or half dragons, or such? Or perhaps the great dragon has some scheme going on, on low boil, such as a great organization of some evil or such. Taking it done is possible, but the cleric will need to gather quite some support, possibly an army, and give it justification, which can be a great deal of hassle and work. But if the dragon kills his son? Oh! the winds of revenge will drive the cleric to do ALL he can to bring back pain to the dragon!

I hope this helps...

[Segev]

One thing to consider is, why is this 3rd level sorcerer in more danger from an Old Black Dragon than a 3rd level sorcerer who doesn't happen to be a high-level cleric's son?

The same things that keep the Old Black Dragon from the latter could keep it from the former.

[ahenobarbi]

You can come up with some protective spells, and the enemies might as well, and so you are in a sort of an arms race.
I'm not sure if this for your own character, or a theoretical question, perhaps from a DM's POV, trying to justify this so there won't be "plot holes".

if it's the second, then I'll suggest to think of the "Balance of terror", that used to be between so many great powers, includign in our world.

Why didn't the USA and the old Russian union blast each other to kingdom come with their nukes? Because they both knew that if they will, that the other side will demolish them as well.

Why did the USA bomb Hiroshima and Nagaski, and not Kyoto or Tokyo? Because than the Japanese will have nothing left to lose, and will never surrender. As long as there was a threat to something they held more dear...

And I'm sure you'll find LOTS of examples in history or current day affairs, the basic principle is this: To each side of a fairly matched conflict, there are some lines, that are red lines. You just don't cross because that would mean the other side will cross YOUR red lines, and will strike at the most important things for you. An all out, nothing-to-lose war. When each enemy has something to lose (And I suggest the cleric's enemy something still precious to them) then the fight can be constrained.

Note that there a few exceptions:
1) Fanatics and mad people. Most factions in the world have them, and it's up to more reasonable folks to try and control them. (Good hook for PCs!) This does not always succeed.
2) If one side is fare more powerful than the other, and can easily extinguish the other. In that case, only the strong side's morality may stop it.

I'll take for example the case of the black dragon. Perhaps it too has offsprings? Either smaller dragons (Which the cleric may let live, since they caused no great evil yet), or half dragons, or such? Or perhaps the great dragon has some scheme going on, on low boil, such as a great organization of some evil or such. Taking it done is possible, but the cleric will need to gather quite some support, possibly an army, and give it justification, which can be a great deal of hassle and work. But if the dragon kills his son? Oh! the winds of revenge will drive the cleric to do ALL he can to bring back pain to the dragon!

I hope this helps...

... worng click just ate my answer, me be angry and me answer be short

1) Either enemy attacks the kid, the kid wastes a day the father wastes a few [relatively] low level spell slots and enemies waste some turns (and expose the selves).
2) the kid adventures successfully.
3) the kid adventures almost successfully (like it's astral projection dies).

either way it's "win" for the cleric.

Also please don't bring real-world religion/politics here. It's against forum rules.

[Kol Korran]

... worng click just ate my answer, me be angry and me answer be short
...
Also please don't bring real-world religion/politics here. It's against forum rules.
It seems I have offended you somehow. If so, I apologize for that. It was not my intention. I tried to stay as general as possible about my suggestion. If my two real world examples have angered you, again I apologize. I did not think they fell into current day affairs, and were old enough issues to not provoke a discussion. I am sorry. :smallfrown:

[Slipperychicken]

It's easy. We make "tutorial" or "training encounters" for the kid until he's high enough level to handle the real world.


Cleric takes his son to a safe place,
Clears out space for a sparring arena in the safe place.
Summon Monster X and/or planar ally to conjure a variety of monsters for him to fight, so he can learn their strengths and weaknesses.
Before each match, Cleric has at least one Heal spell prepared, and casts both Delay Death (Clr 3) and Status (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/status.htm) (Clr 2) on his son.
Delay Death prevents the kid from dying of hp damage. If the kid goes into the negatives, Cleric casts healing spells until the kid's "dying" status wears off.
Kid is only in trouble if the encounter brings him down to -140 or more, which is unlikely.
Kid gains XP and levels in relative safety until he's high level enough to risk facing off against dad's rivals.
Cleric cries tears of joy at seeing his son all leveled up, and either takes him out adventuring with him, or sends him off into the world to find his own way.



We could also let him adventure on his own, but give the kid a "safety net" of sorts:

The Cleric could retrain a feat (costs 2 weeks, 50gp) so he can make Craft Contingent Revivfy and Greater Teleport for his son. That way, if something kills the kid, he immediately appears in the desired location (probably his home), alive and well, with no negative effects from dying. Base price for each "death teleport" is 9100 (for the teleport) and 4500 (for the revivify, before material components) plus 1000gp material components, totaling 14,600gp. If the Cleric crafts it himself, it costs him 14 days, 7,800 gold, and 544 XP for each pair of contingent spells: a small price to pay for both safety and liberty. If the son completely sucks and/or gets stomped by rivals, we resort to "training encounters" until he's a higher level, then send him back into the world for more adventure.

[jiriku]

In fantasy, usually the answer is "you can't", causing the overprotective parent to keep the child under constant guard for their own safety. Frustrated at the constant supervision, the child eventually rebels by running off to have adventures without permission, dodging both his enemies and the servants of his parents who are trying to capture him so they can start "protecting" him again. Typical upbringing for a PC, really.

In practice, high-level parents in D&D have enough resources to prevent their child from ever escaping or ever getting far, so the kid grows up with a nice, safe, highly protected life.

[Slipperychicken]

I got an even better one:


Use Planar Binding/Planar Ally to have a Nightmare cast Astral Projection on the kid during his sleep (or otherwise make him not remember the casting).
Now the kid is, for all intents and purposes, adventuring for real while his body is sound asleep in a safe place.
Give his body a Craft Contingent Revivify.
If the kid is killed by normal means, he wakes up unharmed in his room because the Astral Projection ended.
If the silvery cord is cut by the handful of things which can do that, the kid wakes up in his room because he died and came back to life.
If the kid loses any items or treasure he started out with, that's only the astral copies; the "real" items are still on his body.


This is significantly cheaper than the "death teleport" idea, and it means your kid comes back even if his projection dies in an AMF.

[ahenobarbi]

It seems I have offended you somehow. If so, I apologize for that. It was not my intention. I tried to stay as general as possible about my suggestion. If my two real world examples have angered you, again I apologize. I did not think they fell into current day affairs, and were old enough issues to not provoke a discussion. I am sorry. :smallfrown:

Ah, I'm sorry I didn't communicate what I wanted: I was a lotyle angry at myself for deleting long reply.

The thing about not bringing real world examples is that even thoug I don't see anything wrong with your example it self often threads are closed after people start discussing real-world politic.

[Aliek]

How about using divination to check for threats greater than what they can handle and preemptively dispatch them before they take notice?

[Ettina]

One thing to consider is, why is this 3rd level sorcerer in more danger from an Old Black Dragon than a 3rd level sorcerer who doesn't happen to be a high-level cleric's son?

The same things that keep the Old Black Dragon from the latter could keep it from the former.

I think the 3rd level sorcerer who isn't a high level cleric's son would just not catch the Old Black Dragon's attention. Whereas, if the Old Black Dragon hates the cleric, he might go after the son to make the cleric suffer.

[Slipperychicken]

I think the 3rd level sorcerer who isn't a high level cleric's son would just not catch the Old Black Dragon's attention. Whereas, if the Old Black Dragon hates the cleric, he might go after the son to make the cleric suffer.

Killing the kid doesn't make any sense -his dad can bring him back to life. If the dragon's smart, he'll capture the kid and use the implicit threat of torture (and other mistreatment) as leverage against the Cleric.

[ace rooster]

Killing the kid doesn't make any sense -his dad can bring him back to life. If the dragon's smart, he'll capture the kid and use the implicit threat of torture (and other mistreatment) as leverage against the Cleric.

"Go after" does not have to mean kill. It doesn't even have to be aggressive. In many ways the most effective attack would be to diplomance them, and use them as a source of intel and a way in. No defense short of constantly looking over their shoulder and vetting their opponents (and allies) can help with that. It would be DM call, but providing a safety net might also reduce xp gain, by changing situations from genuine peril into training excersises.

While MAD as a strategy is relevent it will generally not work. Without a single well defined enemy there is no guarentee that you know who to retaliate against, or that the enemy in question will have a similar vulnerability to attack. For example: Attacking the litter of a black dragon is generally not a good response against the dragon attacking your children, as that will generally upset at least one more adult black dragon, who might otherwise accept the death of their mate as an occupational hazard. This is on top of the exceptions stated already, which will be more common in fantasy, and that goading you into escalating a conflict against the wrong target could be a method to attack you.

Incidently this is not strictly a fantasy problem, though the genre does offer more options for every side. It is an issue many powerful people have to deal with in real life too.