Building a mage-slayer

[molten_dragon]

As a concept character for a short campaign, I want to make a mage-slayer. To fit the concept, the character can't have the ability to cast spells. Use of magic items, including scrolls and potions is fine, but no spellcasting. I'd prefer a character that can beat a caster in a fight, rather than just sneaking up and killing him in his sleep. The character will be 18th level.

Yes, I know casters are stronger than non-casters.
Yes, I know a well-prepared wizard will beat me.
Yes, I know this is non-optimal.

The point isn't to kill the high-op, prepared-for-everything kind of casters you see on the forums. It's to kill the kind of casters that D&D intends people to play. Ones that love fireball and meteor swarm, and don't hide on their demi-planes using astral projection to fight everything.

I was thinking of going warblade into master of 9 and using thicket of blades, plus the mage slayer and stand still feats (along with a spiked chain) to get up close to a caster and keep them from fleeing or casting anything while I beat them to death. But I'm not married to that idea if people have better or more interesting ones.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Even a Wizard that's as bad as what the game was play tested with would have Quickened Dimension Door or similar prepared, so you'd better be able to kill that Wizard in a single round or have something to prevent teleportation.

[Azoth]

Here is a link to a sheet I did a ways back as a thought exercise on making a mundane mage slayer. I never finished his gear load out, but should be a decent place to steal ideas and work from there.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=826350

[gorfnab]

This is something I've used in campaigns before as a DM to iritate semi newbie casters.

1. Ranger - B: Track, Weapon Focus: Guisarme, Arcane Hunter ACF (CM)
2. Barbarian - Spirit Totem: Lion ACF (CC), Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA), {Optional: City Brawler ACF (Drg#349)}
3. Barbarian - Nemisis (BoED): Arcanists, Wolf Totem ACF (UA)
4. Warblade
5. Warblade
6. Warblade - Mage Slayer (CArc)
7. Warblade
8. Warblade - B: Improved Initiative
9. Crusader - Blindfight
10. Crusader
11. Occult Slayer
12. Occult Slayer - Combat Reflexes
13. Occult Slayer
14. Occult Slayer
15. Occult Slayer - Pierce Magical Concealment (CArc)
16. Witch Slayer
17. Witch Slayer
18. Witch Slayer - Stand Still (XPH)
19. Witch Slayer
20. Witch Slayer

Note: The levels of Occult Slayer (CW) and Witch Slayer (ToM) can be switched around as needed.

Warblade (ToB) nets you the maneuvers Iron Heart Surge, Moment of Perfect Mind, and Action Before Thought. You also get Uncanny Dodge

Crusader (ToB) nets you the Thicket of Blade Stance (combos nicely with Stand Still, Combat Reflexes, and a reach weapon; wear spiked gauntlets or armor spikes to threaten nearby squares) and some healing maneuvers. it also nets you Indomitable Soul.

Witch Slayer nets you Mettle and Slippery Mind.

If playing human take EWP: Spiked Chain and WF: Spiked Chain instead of Guisarme.

[molten_dragon]

Even a Wizard that's as bad as what the game was play tested with would have Quickened Dimension Door or similar prepared, so you'd better be able to kill that Wizard in a single round or have something to prevent teleportation.

A binding weapon should work.

[herrhauptmann]

This is something I've used in campaigns before as a DM to iritate semi newbie casters.

1. Ranger - B: Track, Weapon Focus: Guisarme, Arcane Hunter ACF (CM)
2. Barbarian - Spirit Totem: Lion ACF (CC), Whirling Frenzy ACF (UA), {Optional: City Brawler ACF (Drg#349)}
3. Barbarian - Nemisis (BoED): Arcanists, Wolf Totem ACF (UA)
4. Warblade
5. Warblade
6. Warblade - Mage Slayer (CArc)
7. Warblade
8. Warblade - B: Improved Initiative
9. Crusader - Blindfight
10. Crusader
11. Occult Slayer
12. Occult Slayer - Combat Reflexes
13. Occult Slayer
14. Occult Slayer
15. Occult Slayer - Pierce Magical Concealment (CArc)
16. Witch Slayer
17. Witch Slayer
18. Witch Slayer - Stand Still (XPH)
19. Witch Slayer
20. Witch Slayer

Note: The levels of Occult Slayer (CW) and Witch Slayer (ToM) can be switched around as needed.

Warblade (ToB) nets you the maneuvers Iron Heart Surge, Moment of Perfect Mind, and Action Before Thought. You also get Uncanny Dodge

Crusader (ToB) nets you the Thicket of Blade Stance (combos nicely with Stand Still, Combat Reflexes, and a reach weapon; wear spiked gauntlets or armor spikes to threaten nearby squares) and some healing maneuvers. it also nets you Indomitable Soul.

Witch Slayer nets you Mettle and Slippery Mind.

If playing human take EWP: Spiked Chain and WF: Spiked Chain instead of Guisarme.
I would say that this build is one of the best options that nonmagic characters have.
Nemesis is great, and must be taken as soon as possible. It's important because it gives you the ability to sense your favored enemy within 60ft. It works through doors and walls, so it's not blocked by X thickness of material like detection spells. And now that you can sense an enemy, you know their square; which brings Pierce Magical Concealment into play. PMC sort of fails if you're a human running around in the dark, but you'll still have blindfight to help you. But if your enemy is say Invisible, or standing in a Darkness spell (or being creative with a lot of other spells), PMC lets you hit them like it's as clear as day.
If starting at ahigher level, I'd recommend dropping a level of barbarian, and taking either fighter for feats, or warblade for maneuvers.

Another option is the Karsite race. It's a human with a few extras, so you still get that bonus feat; and I think the skill points. The extras you get are pretty sweet too. Another option is quor-bred which is similar to Karsite, but it's anti-psionic. The anti-psi abilities from quor-bred work well against most casters.

There's a weapon enchantment that grants you proficiency with that weapon (and cleric bab with that weapon too) in Complete Divine. As a nonhuman, it's a good option to use the spiked chain. And of course, if you lose your weapon, Warblade lets you swap your weapon feats to something else.


A binding weapon should work.
Binding has save DC associated with it right? Stops them from using teleportation magics?

[Emperor Tippy]

Rogue 1/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 6/ Factotum 8/ Swashbuckler 3/ Swordsage 2.

Rogue 1/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 2/ Factotum 8/ Swashbuckler 3/ Invisible Fist Decisive Strike Martial Monk 4/ Swordsage 2 if you want the specific level order.

Item wise you want a Weirdstone, a Third Eye Conceal, Master Shadowhand Gloves, a Ring of Invisibility, and a Craft Contingent Invisible Selective (You) Antimagic Field.

You drop and activate the Weirdstone about a mile away from your target after locating them to cut off dimensional retreats and then you activate your AMF and move in, targeting the caster first. Your opening move should be using Cunning Surge for a standard action to get within range and then Decisive Strike as a full round action before using Cunning Surge multiple times to whack the target until he is dead. The AMF drops most magical defenses and seeing as you are hitting for 4x Int bonus, 2x HD, 2x Str, and 2x Dex per attack (and you are dropping in excess of four attacks, all at full AB), your target should be dead. Just remember to be wearing Thinaun gauntlets to grab the targets soul to prevent resurrection. Then use Cunning Surge to flee.

Sure, it won't kill a decently optimized mage but it will kill the kinds of mages that you want to kill with very little (if any) chance of failure.

[herrhauptmann]

I would say that this build is one of the best options that nonmagic characters have.

And then Tippy shows up...
Dangit. Do what Emperor Tippy says and you'll win in any normal game. And most abnormal games too.
:smallsigh:

[StreamOfTheSky]

Here's something I made for a 15th level game. I was unable to fit both Assassin's Stance and Thicket of Blades in, ended up going with the latter and optimizing the fact I had sneak attack. With 3 more levels...could get some Crusader in there, maybe drop the Swordsage, and get sneak attack by some other means. I mean...staggering strike is just so sexy, it's tough to give it up.

Changeling Martial Rogue 4 / Wolf Spirit Lion Totem Barb 2 / Warshaper 3 / Binder 4 / Unarmed Swordsage 2
Progression: R 1, Binder 1-4, Barb 2, WS 1, SS 1, WS 2-3, SS 2, R 2-4

Str 16, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10 (32 point buy)
Str 18 (24), Dex 16 (20), Con 14 (18), Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10 (level 15 w/ magic items)
Str 22 (28), Dex 20 (24), Con 18 (22), Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10 (with Paimon and Warshaper)
Str 26 (32), Dex 20 (24), Con 18 (22), Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10 (Whirling Frenzy + Pai & WS)

Feats:
1 Power Attack [flaw]
1 Mage Slayer (foes can't cast defensively) [flaw]
1 Blind-Fight [Rogue 1]
1 Stand Still (Reflex vs. 10 + dmg or be stopped; AoO does no actual dmg)
3 Supernatural Instincts (Su abilities provoke AoO)
5 Improved Binding [Binder 4]
5 Whirlwind Attack [Binder - Paimon]
6 Pierce Magical Concealment (Ignore all miss % from magic)
7 Imp. Trip [Barb 2]
9 Imp. Unarmed Strike [SS 1]
9 Weapon Focus (Shadow Hand: Spiked Chain, Unarmed, others) [SS 1]
9 Shadow Blade (add Dex to dmg for all SH weapons)
12 Staggering Strike (foe hit by melee SA must make Fort vs. dmg dealt or Staggered 1 round)
13 Combat Reflexes [Rogue 2]
15 EWP (Spiked Chain) [Rogue 4]
15 Snap Kick (Extra unarmed attack @ 1/2 str to dmg; adds to any kind of attack; -2 to hit all attacks)

Maneuvers (IL 8; 7 known; 4 readied)
4 Comet Throw (DC 23 [25]) R
2 Cloak of Deception
2 Flashing Sun R
1 Burning Brand
1 Counter Charge R
1 Sudden Leap R
1 Wolf Fang Strike
Stances: Child of Shadow (move 10', gain 20% conceal), Assassin's (+2d6 sneak attack) R

Locked Gauntlet
Feathered Wings graft (Fly (avg) speed = 2x land speed)
+1 Shadow Hand Living Chain (Spiked Chain; +2 trip; +3 attack when in SH stance)
Wand Chamber (Wand of Enlarge Person) [1050]
+1 Animated Darkwood Heavy Shield [9207]
+3 Mithralmist Chain shirt (swift 7/day; 1 min. 20% conceal mist (wearer can see through) in his space)
Dusty Rose Iuon stone
Arms: Bracers of Might & Opportunity (+2 str checks/skills & AoO attack rolls, +2 damage when PA for 2+; imm. 2/day extra AoO)
Hands: Brute Gauntlets of Dex +4 (Swift 3 charge/day; 1+charges spent on str checks/skills, damage)
Head: Scout's Headband of Persuasion (+2 Spot; Standard 3 charges; 1: DV 60' 1 hour, 2: See Invis. 10 min, 3: True Seeing 1 min.)
Face: Goggles of Foefinding (Ignore non-total cover)
Feet: Boots of Striding and Springing and Agile Leaping and Translocation
Ring1: Ring of Protect +2
Ring2: Ring of Blinking
Shoulders: Cloak of Resistance +5 and Cha +4
Throat: Amulet of Natural Armor +1 and Con +4
Torso: Vest of Many Styles
Waist: Belt of Str +6
Scroll of Blood Frenzy
Scroll of Guidance
Scroll of Mending x2
Handy Haversack
Bedroll
Chalk
Clubs (4)
Crowbar
Flint and Steel
Torches (4)
Silk Rope (50 ft) and Grappling Hook
Sack
Trail Rations (4 days)
Waterskin

- Barbarian: Pounce, Whirling Frenzy 1/day, Imp. Trip
- Binder: Soul Binding (Paimon: +4 Dex, WWA feat, Dance of Death, Uncanny Dodge, +4 Tumble/Dance), Suppress Sign, Pact Augmentation (+1 insight on attack rolls)
- Rogue: 3 bonus feats, Evasion, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, Penetrating Strike (1/2 SA to immune foes); Social Intuition
- Unarmed Swordsage: IUS and monk dmg, Weapon Focus (Shadow hand), Quick to Act +1
- Warshaper: Morphic Weapons, +4 Str/Con, Crit/Stun Immunity, +5 ft reach

Enlarged, has a 40 ft reach. Can trip with a huge bonus, or stand still. Constant blinking (which, thanks to pierce magical concealment, incurs no miss chance to self) means every hit is a sneak attack w/ a save vs. staggered and even SA immune foes are subject to it. Moving, casting a spell (can't cast defensively), and using Su abilities all provoke. Has grafted wings for non-magical flight and items for tactical teleportation, making escape difficult. Ignores all magical concealment and non-total cover, and can use True Seeing if necessary. Has pounce, lots of attacks, and does pretty high damage despite almost no optimization towards damage-dealing. With more feats from +3 levels, you could look to add Inhuman Reach or Willing Deformity (Tall) for more reach, or pick up Elusive Target (Mobility is an armor enhancement, saves a feat) so any enemy that misses an AoO you provoke for movement you then get a free trip attempt on.