The Town mayor wants to shut you in his dungeon? Better call Saul

[ArqArturo]

We're starting a small Pathfinder game, lvl 3, that seems similar to Midnight, except in these things:


No Clerics (save of Izrador, here is Asmodeus).
We would be fighting in it's recent fall (That's why there's magic).
Oracles lose 2hp/spell lvl slot used when casting
Paladins have been hunted down almost to extincion by Antipaladins of Asmodeus (here they can be Any Evil)
Druids are non-existant
Arcane Magic is ok
Illiteracy is a class trait in all clases except wizard, bard, alchemist, and magus
Crafting items/reviving the dead can only be done in 'Magic Circles' (I call them Workbenches... It's a Fallout thing)
Races are restricted to Core Rulebook
Only Paizo, Core Material (Ultimate books, etc) as well as old 3.5 material, but I have to consult the GM
No Advanced Class Guide (The GM doesn't own it)
No Psionics


So, I want to roll a Human Diplomancer (Bard) that basically a slimeball sweet-talker that would convince a grey wyrm red dragon to hand him the treasure and its hide, and here's the numbers I rolled: 11, 14, 16, 15, 18, 9.

The rest of the party consist of a Dwarf Magus (Bladebound, has a Black Dwarven Axe), Half-Elf Paladin 2/Oracle 1,
Human Alchemist 2/Barbarian 1(Drunken Brute Archetype), Halfling ranger (Shapeshifter variant), so it's safe to say that we have more than enough bruisers.

Honestly, other than Master Manipilator, and a few other skill tricks, I've no idea how to even assemble the Diplomancer, because the material for 3.5/PF is huge, I guess Skill Focus in Diplomacy is a start. So, any suggestions?.

[Psyren]

Diplomancy was severely nerfed in Pathfinder. For starters, there are no epic skill checks; second, Diplomacy only improves attitudes two steps; and third, Diplomacy is capped at "Helpful" regardless of your result. A helpful dragon will at most give you a single or few key items from its hoard, and a helpful evil dragon might probably consider "allowing you to leave" to be helpful. (Plus, he'll probably start at "Hostile" which you can then only get to "Indifferent.") Finally, many of the tools used to boost your skill check, like Exemplar or Guidance of the Avatar, no longer exist and must be individually approved/converted.

[Raven777]

And "indifferent" to an evil dragon probably still qualifies you for "lunch".

[ibtfu]

Honestly, other than Master Manipilator, and a few other skill tricks, I've no idea how to even assemble the Diplomancer, because the material for 3.5/PF is huge, I guess Skill Focus in Diplomacy is a start. So, any suggestions?.

I think focusing on Bluff is the way to go...

Human w/ Silver-Tongued and Focused Study
Bard for Glibness
Mask of Stony Demeanor
For max cheese, some method of rerolling d20 checks. 1 level in foresight diviner gets you rerolls and a snake familiar (+3 bluff).

Then just keep stacking +1 and +2 bonuses from traits, ioun stones, spells etc. It doesn't take long before you auto-succeed even with the penalty "The lie is impossible –20".

[ArqArturo]

And "indifferent" to an evil dragon probably still qualifies you for "lunch".

I'd be the most handsome lunch it ever had, so much it would be forced to dress in a tux before eating :smalltongue:.


I think focusing on Bluff is the way to go...

Human w/ Silver-Tongued and Focused Study
Bard for Glibness
Mask of Stony Demeanor
For max cheese, some method of rerolling d20 checks. 1 level in foresight diviner gets you rerolls and a snake familiar (+3 bluff).

Then just keep stacking +1 and +2 bonuses from traits, ioun stones, spells etc. It doesn't take long before you auto-succeed even with the penalty "The lie is impossible –20".

This could work, also, considering Diplomacy was nerfed, Enchantments in the bard list are strong, so I might also focus on that list. That, and the Soundstriker sounds (heheh, sounds) awesome, hitting people with audible 'Objection!' shouts. But, Weird words do replace Suggestions :/.

[Psyren]

Bluff isn't a great choice either. The table says impossible is -20, but the text says the GM can throw some out completely. Furthermore there is no cap on how long an elaborate lie can take.

The takeaway is that you can optimize social skills, but I wouldn't count on them being total encounter solvers the way they were in 3.5 (i.e. getting a dragon to fork over his hoard or leave it unprotected etc.)

[Sheogoroth]

There's This (http://dndtools.eu/classes/evangelist/), the capstone is essentially what you want, but it's not quite the right flavor I take it.

Lawyers don't fit too well in a medieval setting, unless they are outright devils.
Luckily 3.5 and Pathfinder both give us a bit of direction here...
3.5's biggest contribution to this would probably be either the Fiend of Possession(Control) or the Fiend of Corruption(Bargaining), probably FOC because of the immunity to Discern Lies and the Temptation, Geas, and Soul Bargain abilities. Both from Fiend Folio.

Pathfinder has a few less evil options, probably the best fit for flavor would be one of these two Bard Archetypes: Celebrity Bard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/celebrity) and Negotiator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/negotiator).

I built a Lawyer once that I based on Tiny Attorney (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1vHYw-34dY) from Venture Bros, I made him a Celebrity Bard with Vow of Nonviolence for the bonuses to mind affecting abilities, Dragonsong, and Leadership. I won't go into details about how I convinced the DM to let me have my character growing out of the chest of his cohort.

[ArqArturo]

Heh, I get that the setting does not like lawyers, but it is the concept I'm working on.