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Stormcrow
2007-03-07, 06:09 PM
My party has been set a challenge.
We have to break into the house of the Assasination teacher (long story) and draw a line across his neck with a stick of charcoal. Then escape without leaving any trace of our presence other than the charcoal line.

Low Level, Low Magic.
So far all we managed to do was get our rogues arm broken.

We aren't sure the man sleeps. The stairs up onto the second floor are trapped.

Help?

I'll try and answer any questions.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 06:15 PM
Not sure about the Assasination teacher, but drawing a line on my neck with a stick of charcoal would most likely wake me up.

Perhaps get a pouch filled with very fine charcoal dust and pour out the line, or a string coated with charcoal powder like a carpenters plumb line?

If you have a string coated with charcoal perhaps there is a way to remotely drag it over his neck, without having to get to close.

Pull up roof tiles and drop the string from above. . .just spitballing ideas here

Ikkitosen
2007-03-07, 06:19 PM
How low a level? How little magic? What are your resources? What level do you think the guy is?

Mewtarthio
2007-03-07, 06:22 PM
Not sure about the Assasination teacher, but drawing a line on my neck with a stick of charcoal would most likely wake me up.

Perhaps get a pouch filled with very fine charcoal dust and pour out the line, or a string coated with charcoal powder like a carpenters plumb line?

If you have a string coated with charcoal perhaps there is a way to remotely drag it over his neck, without having to get to close.

Pull up roof tiles and drop the string from above. . .just spitballing ideas here

Seeing as the point is apparently to teach students how to get in, execute their mark, and get out, all without actually killing the teacher, I imagine he'll politely remain "dead" once they've marked him. Unless this is to train them in techniques for assassinating people with Contingent Create Undead on them.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 06:24 PM
I was thinking of this as more of a find a horsehead in the bed moment for the assasination teacher. Did he, or one of his rivals give you this assignment?

And further more as the DM, I would reward players who come up with creative ways to fulfil the assignment. ;)

headwarpage
2007-03-07, 06:30 PM
I second the string of charcoal idea, or some other exercise in lateral thinking. You could probably do it with mage hand too, if you have access to that. How "low magic" are we talking here, anyway?

Is the breaking in and the stick of charcoal an explicit part of the challenge, or is the real goal to just somehow engineer a situation where he wakes up with a line of charcoal on his neck?

Jasdoif
2007-03-07, 06:33 PM
Consider using oil of taggit or drow poison to knock the guy out.

If there's a second story that the stairs lead to...are there windows on the second story that you can climb in through, or a balcony? Is the building taller than two stories?

The_Werebear
2007-03-07, 06:35 PM
I wouldn't know. Every DnD Group I have been with has had the favored assasination method of "Blowing up the town that the target is living in."

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 06:35 PM
Bribe the Assasination teachers, concubine to draw the line for you after he falls asleep. Take the credit.

ZekeArgo
2007-03-07, 06:37 PM
Bribe the Assasination teachers, concubine to draw the line for you after he falls asleep. Take the credit.

Heh, truthfully this is probally the safest and most efficient route. Even better would be to set it up through a 2nd or even 3rd party to make it difficult to trace it back to ya all.

Mewtarthio
2007-03-07, 06:38 PM
Bribe the Assasination teachers, concubine to draw the line for you after he falls asleep. Take the credit.

And if he ever finds out, tell him that was really your secret plan all along. Then he'll share a hearty laugh with you, pour you some wine, and hang your bloated, purple corpse outside his window as a warning to all his other students who try to beat the system. Never tick off a guy who teaches you how to kill people.

headwarpage
2007-03-07, 06:43 PM
Silent image?

Concubine or no, is there somebody you could bribe/intimidate/torture into aiding you?

How exactly are the stairs trapped? If it's a matter of skipping the fifth step, it's not even an obstacle once you know it's there. I'd assume that the windows, and all other entrances, are trapped as well, until you can prove differently.

Another big challenge is figuring out when he's asleep. So far, I haven't seen a suggestion that works when he's awake (nope, take that back, somebody said poison), and you mentioned that catching him sleeping is a problem. Poison is actually a fair idea, here, if you can figure out a way to work it. Otherwise, you'll need to observe him very carefully so you can catch him sleeping.

Stormcrow
2007-03-07, 06:44 PM
Wow ok...

Firstly low magic as in no casters and no magic items in the group.
Low level as in currently level three.
He set the task not his rival it's never been completed so i'm looking to score my team some prestige.

Yes the building has windows on the second floor. No there arent more than two. Yes we have to use a stick of charcoal.

We went in the window last time, the rogue snuck over to the bed and there was a Dummy in the bed. The teacher jumped out of the shadows and broke her arm.

headwarpage
2007-03-07, 06:47 PM
Well, if he wakes up with a line of charcoal on his neck, how's he going to know whether you used a stick or a string to get it there? Seriously, if he does, your DM's just mad because you didn't do it the way he wanted.

Sounds like your DM is screwing with you. Or he has one of those simple-and-obvious-if-you-already-know-it solutions in mind. Lateral thinking is definitely your friend here.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 06:48 PM
Does the Assasination Teacher function as an entity seperate from your DM, or does he possess unlimited knowledge of where the PCs are at all time?

Mertarthio, you assume the Assasination teacher is vindictive. It is just as likely that the Assasination teacher would be proud that his students have learned that results not methods matter most. :D As long as the victim is "dead" then what matters how he got that way.

The_Werebear
2007-03-07, 06:57 PM
Mertarthio, you assume the Assasination teacher is vindictive. It is just as likely that the Assasination teacher would be proud that his students have learned that results not methods matter most. :D As long as the victim is "dead" then what matters how he got that way.

Hence, setting the house on fire with him in it, and when he runs out, tackling him and drawing on the line.

Actually, that technically qualifies for the rules. It gets the line across his neck with the stick of charcoal, and leaves no trace of your presence in the house.

I think the DM is being a jerk on this one. If he never sleeps and is capable of breaking party members without effort, then he is probably a tad overpowered. I suggest catching him outside, beating him unconsious with saps, and dragging him back and drawing the line on him.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-03-07, 07:01 PM
do you have a rogue in the party?

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 07:02 PM
Better yet. betray him to whatever passes for the local law. Knock out the hangman and take his place. Make sure the the hangmans noose is well coated with charcoal. Just before you pull the lever that drops the hatch door, whisper in his ear. "This is what you get for breaking my companions arm."

Stormcrow
2007-03-07, 07:03 PM
We are all students at an Adventuring School of which he is a member of the faculty. My plan thus far is to steal a heavy duty sleeping potion from the infirmary and get it slipped into his food/drink before it's taken to his residence.

I think my DM designed it to be unbeatable. Thats why i'm committed. Going to wipe the smile off his face.

Mewtarthio
2007-03-07, 07:04 PM
Mertarthio, you assume the Assasination teacher is vindictive. It is just as likely that the Assasination teacher would be proud that his students have learned that results not methods matter most. :D As long as the victim is "dead" then what matters how he got that way.

The trouble is that a concubine willing to draw a line on her master's neck is not a concubine willing to slit her master's throat.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 07:05 PM
I think my DM designed it to be unbeatable. Thats why i'm committed. Going to wipe the smile off his face.

There is your problem right there. If you DM is invested in making you "not win" then no matter what clever idea you come up with, you will lose. You can not beat the power of "PLOT".

Stormcrow
2007-03-07, 07:07 PM
Cube'o'Doom: Yes we have a Rogue.

My characters a TWF Fighter so he's not real handy for this mission. Though... dual Saps...

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 07:07 PM
Not really Mewtarthio the trouble is you are looking to punish the players for not approaching the problem with what you belive is the proper solution.

Jasdoif
2007-03-07, 07:10 PM
What's wrong with going in the window again and doing something else? Might just need to be patient and wait in the shadows somewhere for the guy to move.

Once you're inside...if you know the trap on the stairs is audible (i.e. the guy can hear when it goes off), you might try to find some way to trigger it from a distance, sneak into the bedroom when/if he goes down to reset the trap, wait for him to sleep (or "help" him set some rest).

Caltrops with drow poison might do the job, if you can him to step on one. Either create a big enough commotion that he starts running and doesn't pay attention to the floor (thunderstone?), or hide them under a rug.

headwarpage
2007-03-07, 07:18 PM
Your idea with the sleeping potion is solid. But if your DM really doesn't want it to happen, he'll have resistance/food tasters/something.

There are really two possibilities here: First, that your DM has thought up what precautions this guy takes, and will stick to those regardless of what you do. Second, that your DM is making up defenses on the fly, to come up with reasonable-sounding counters to whatever you try. Based on what you know of your DM, which do you think is more likely?

Stormcrow
2007-03-07, 07:20 PM
headwarpage: I believe he's got the precautions set, hes crap at on the fly so i imagine thats the story.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-03-07, 07:22 PM
Form a conspiracy with a doppleganger. Agree to help him replace the Assassination teacher in exchange for allowing you to be the first group to ever charcoal the teacher. (that sounds vaguely dirty). Sure you have helped evil prevail but you win the teachers silly little contest.

Here I am trying to plan my groups next session and all I can think about is this thread, thanks for the distraction. ;)

TheOOB
2007-03-07, 07:29 PM
In a situation like this, you need to ask you DM "Are we supposed to be able to do this, or are we going to fail no matter what". It is metagaming, but if the DM has a plan of where he/she wants the plot to go, then your efforts may very well prove meaningless. Nothing is worse then creating a large elaborate plan only to find out you never had a chance.

EDIT: Is there a rule that says you have to do it in his sleep? more often then not the best way to kill someone is to suddenly jump at them unexpectantly with no thought of escape.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-07, 07:29 PM
Wait until he's teaching, go to his house and break in. Hide in the attic above his bedroom. Use a peephole to watch him go to bed. Sneak down and assassinate him.

ExHunterEmerald
2007-03-07, 07:34 PM
Section and Stinger.
First, lure him with a "bad" stealth job that he'll catch.
But before that, set your rogue behind him, charcoal at the ready. As soon as he springs up to deal with the obvious threat, get him.

Fireball.Man.Guy.
2007-03-07, 08:01 PM
Well, while this is probably now where near a solution, It should be a fun distraction.

I'd do it military-style. If your at an adventuring scool, some wizard might be there to help you. Have 4-5 people with crossbows/wands of magic missle or burning hands. Coat crossbows with Drow sleep poison. Have those people hanging by ropes next to the window. Have wizard on ground blow the dor with a magic missle. Swing in right after window is blow, shout very loudly "down on the ground! Get Down! Get Down!" If he dosen't comply, turn him into a sleeping pincushion, then draw the line. If he does comply, draw the charcoal line.

Tough the broken window may leave a mark in the house.

Seffbasilisk
2007-03-07, 08:23 PM
TWF fighter? You actually might be the best for this.

75gp for a use of Drow Sleep poison. Buy as much as you can. Have the guy with the best fortitude save (probably you) apply it to light crossbow bolts. Try to argue with your DM that one use can cover fifty bolts in the ammunition thing. You can cite things like reduced cost for silvering, and enchantments and like. So lets say 1 use = 50 bolts.

Take one in each hand, so with TWF you now can fire two bolts at a -4 to each. Hope your dex is high. Have the rogue pick the front door's lock, and have someone with the best spot and/or listen with you to be the spotter with you (give him a crossbow too). Everyone else follows you in, if you have another sneaky, have him climbing the walls to try the windows that the rogue searches for traps and unlocks beforehand and firing with one hand (-2 to attack) just pepper him with bolts. Each one that hits, DC 13 fortitude save or pass out. Enough bolts, and he's down. (No matter how high his fort save is, there's a 5% chance of failure.) Once he goes down draw the line and you win.

Basically just pepper him with shots and hope you don't accidentally kill him. Once he's out, it's for a MINIMUM of one hour, so search the place and reset the traps, pick up the bolts, replace knocked over things, heal his wounds if possible (bandage him?) and put him in his bed. Then go out, and reset the traps there, and relock the doors and windows.

He wakes up, he aches a lot, has fresh bandages on him, and a charcoal line across his neck. But there's no other sign you were there. You win, and hardcore.

Jamie Fameflame
2007-03-07, 08:56 PM
I really don't think that brute force is the way to go...

If this gentleman is a master assassin, teaching the way of stealth to students, etc., then stealth is the only way to go.

Even if you don't get him tagged, he'll probably be more impressed with the attempt than any involving crossbows, blood (his) and the like...


Basically just pepper him with shots and hope you don't accidentally kill him. Once he's out, it's for a MINIMUM of one hour, so search the place and reset the traps, pick up the bolts, replace knocked over things, heal his wounds if possible (bandage him?) and put him in his bed. Then go out, and reset the traps there, and relock the doors and windows.

He wakes up, he aches a lot, has fresh bandages on him, and a charcoal line across his neck. But there's no other sign you were there. You win, and hardcore.

As the only trace of the procedure allowed is a line of charcoal on his neck, I guess that this is pretty much out of the way

Has he got any amulets/necklaces? That could be painted with the charcoal. Or paint with charcoal on any portraits of him in the mansion. :smallbiggrin:

I reckon, that if he stands in front of you the next day, and you point out that the necklace he wears is leaving a trace of charcoal on his neck, he'll get the idea. That could have been contact poison, after all.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers!

Ditto
2007-03-07, 09:11 PM
You said low magic, not no magic, right? Get yourself a scroll or three of Sleep (25gp). Have the rogue UMD (or hire a wizard) it in the window of the bedroom. If he's not in bed asleep, he's asleep in the closet now. If he actally *was* asleep, slink in the window and chalk him up.

Attilargh
2007-03-08, 02:12 AM
So it's a two-storey house. Scout it out when the teacher's away. Take twenties. That'd be two minutes of searching the traps per entrance, stairs or other the rogue want to use or look into, two minutes six seconds of picking per lock, and so on. Make a generous estimate and have someone with good Bluff delay the teacher if he's about to return prematurely. Remember to reset all traps, put everything back where it was, replace those hairs in the lock and so on. And don't leave footprints either.

Remember, he broke your friend's arm. It's perfectly acceptable to hide under his bed and slash his Achilles tendons with a poisoned knife as he walks by.

Best hiding places are not the most secret ones. The best are the ones you can get out of fast. Sure, you can twist yourself into the desk drawer, but what good will that do? Instead wait in his wardrobe for him to open the door or just come close and then strike like lightning.

Think different. Can't go up the stairs? Go up the railing next to them. Can't go through the window? Don't, fool him into opening it and pull him out. Assault him during a lecture. Have someone to do it. Organize a student revolt. He's got to pee sometime, figure out where. Fool him into drawing the line himself. Blackmail him. Whitemail him. Drive him paranoid by giving everyone you know charcoal sticks and having them carry the sticks openly. Turn into a snake, it just might help. Get him drunk. Make a deal with the Devil and kill him. Threaten with physical violence. Trap his house and move in when you hear the scream.

Jothki
2007-03-08, 03:12 AM
I would assume that his bedroom does not have a window, that would be too easy. You might still be able to lure him out into the open by making a distraction, though it would have to be realistic or he'll suspect something. Do you have access to any sort of wound-based sleep poison that could be put on a projectile? If you can manage to knock him out at a window, you might be able to just rappel in (the outside of his house and the window are unlikely to be trapped, though be careful about the roof) and take him out.

Edit: Do you have access to healing spells? They might go against the whole spirit of the thing, but they'll get rid of any wounds that you inflict.

The Gilded Duke
2007-03-08, 03:30 AM
He cannot be in his house all the time.
Watch the path he uses to go home.
A good place to watch from would be on top of somebody elses house.

Once you know his schedule pretty well, prepare an ambush.
Know his exact height and measurementsd, specifically at what height his neck is.
Get a thin peice of string, cover it in charcoal dust.
At night would be ideal, you did not mention any darkvision, and string would not reflect.

Have the string held up by party members on opposite sides of the street.
Hide, but raise the string up above the heads of other pedestrians.

When he passes through lower the string to neck level.
The charcoal will rub off onto his neck.

Make sure to have complete concealment or cover during this.

One side of the string should have a weighted end, perhaps a weight tied to it. Throw it accross the street, so that the string is no longer across the street, then flee.

He should have a charcoal mark on his neck, and not see what caused it.

Aquillion
2007-03-08, 03:42 AM
You said low magic, not no magic, right? Get yourself a scroll or three of Sleep (25gp). Have the rogue UMD (or hire a wizard) it in the window of the bedroom. If he's not in bed asleep, he's asleep in the closet now. If he actally *was* asleep, slink in the window and chalk him up.I'm guessing from the sound of things that he has more than 4 HD.

I have a better idea. As long as he sleeps at some point, you just need two words: Unseen servant. Get a scroll of that or hire someone to cast it for you. It's a first level spell. Drawing a line (or doing anything else) to a sleeping character won't require an attack roll, so the servant can do it, and the chalk is small enough for it to carry. Only problem is staying within the 30-foot radius.

Actually, you might even be able to do it with Prestidigitation. Does putting a charcoal line on something count as 'soiling' it?

Alternatively, if you can roll up a new character just for this, make diplomacy-exploiting build. Even at level 3, you should be able to reliably get the assassin to Fanatic. Then just ask him to draw the charcoal line on himself.

...failing those, more serious suggestions are to spend more time gathering information. Who has attempted this before? Ask around after them and find out what they tried. Does this teacher do this often? Does he have a reputation for it? What classes does he teach? You could use that to work out his skills and abilities. Scout out his house and find out when he enters and leaves each day, and how. Find out his daily routine. Make a proper map of his house and the area around it, or at least the parts you can explore.

I have a feeling that your DM is just going to do an 'he appears behind you and breaks your arm' thing no matter what you do (Core D&D doesn't even have a system for limb breaks, so that's kinda a giveaway, isn't it?), but forcing more information out of a DM can sometimes make them stop that.

Telok
2007-03-08, 04:48 AM
Your GM may hate you if you try this one.

Tools: Sledgehammer, heavy crossbows, nets, ropes, charcoal.

Step One: Break (in).
While the assassin is at home use the sledgehammer to break in his front door.

Step Two: Bait and switch.
When the assassin comes to the door to yell at you, shoot at him with the crossbows. You can hire a couple of mooks and use blunted bolts for this part. Try to be about 40' from the doorway when you shoot.

Step Three: Suprise Party.
Once the assassin gets out the door the people on the roof throw the nets at him, anyone with rope use tries to lasso him, last person drops the sledgehammer and grapples him. These are all readied actions that take place as soon as he comes out the door.

Step Four: Mission Accomplished.
Tie him up, beat him down, draw the charcoal line, steal his clothes and purse, leave him in the gutter. Loot his house, because that's why you're an adventurer.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-08, 04:52 AM
Your GM may hate you if you try this one.

Tools: Sledgehammer, heavy crossbows, nets, ropes, charcoal.

Step One: Break (in).
While the assassin is at home use the sledgehammer to break in his front door.

Step Two: Bait and switch.
When the assassin comes to the door to yell at you, shoot at him with the crossbows. You can hire a couple of mooks and use blunted bolts for this part. Try to be about 40' from the doorway when you shoot.

Step Three: Suprise Party.
Once the assassin gets out the door the people on the roof throw the nets at him, anyone with rope use tries to lasso him, last person drops the sledgehammer and grapples him. These are all readied actions that take place as soon as he comes out the door.

Step Four: Mission Accomplished.
Tie him up, beat him down, draw the charcoal line, steal his clothes and purse, leave him in the gutter. Loot his house, because that's why you're an adventurer.

Classy! Not sure you'll get an A in his class though, what with the multiple witnesses, property damage, etc.

marjan
2007-03-08, 08:03 AM
Classy! Not sure you'll get an A in his class though, what with the multiple witnesses, property damage, etc.

Blame the swamp gas.

Edit: Like Man in Black.

Tobrian
2007-03-08, 09:55 AM
Hence, setting the house on fire with him in it, and when he runs out, tackling him and drawing on the line.

Actually, that technically qualifies for the rules. It gets the line across his neck with the stick of charcoal, and leaves no trace of your presence in the house.

I think the DM is being a jerk on this one. If he never sleeps and is capable of breaking party members without effort, then he is probably a tad overpowered. I suggest catching him outside, beating him unconsious with saps, and dragging him back and drawing the line on him.

Um, this guy is their mentor/teacher. Setting his house on fire or beating him unconscious is probably not conductive to a long life. It's a test, not an all-out combat challenge. Besides if that mentor lives in a town, setting his house on fire is really a bad idea... for some reason *cough* townspeople get really upset about arson.

Their GM never stated "the guy never sleeps". Stormcrow merely said their PCs don't know when or if their teacher sleeps. Important difference.

As for "it qualifies under the rules"... no. Leaving properly damage or causing bodily harm does not really constitute "leaving no trace except the charcoal line". -->
Then escape without leaving any trace of our presence other than the charcoal line.

How do assassins operate in the game world in question? Are they just thugs who kill people for money, or is there an actual guild with rules and a codex, like the Assassins Guild of Ankh-Morpork in the Discworld novels? The latter would definite look down on any student who sets a whole house on fire to kill one person or who beats up the target in the street... it's lacks elegance, endangers innocent bystanders (that you didnt get payed to kill) and is bad for their reputation.


I'd do it military-style. If your at an adventuring scool, some wizard might be there to help you. Have 4-5 people with crossbows/wands of magic missle or burning hands. Coat crossbows with Drow sleep poison. Have those people hanging by ropes next to the window. Have wizard on ground blow the dor with a magic missle. Swing in right after window is blow, shout very loudly "down on the ground! Get Down! Get Down!" If he dosen't comply, turn him into a sleeping pincushion, then draw the line. If he does comply, draw the charcoal line.

And get arrested by the town guard...


75gp for a use of Drow Sleep poison. Buy as much as you can. Have the guy with the best fortitude save (probably you) apply it to light crossbow bolts. Try to argue with your DM that one use can cover fifty bolts in the ammunition thing. You can cite things like reduced cost for silvering, and enchantments and like. So lets say 1 use = 50 bolts.

Take one in each hand, so with TWF you now can fire two bolts at a -4 to each. Hope your dex is high. Have the rogue pick the front door's lock, and have someone with the best spot and/or listen with you to be the spotter with you (give him a crossbow too). Everyone else follows you in, if you have another sneaky, have him climbing the walls to try the windows that the rogue searches for traps and unlocks beforehand and firing with one hand (-2 to attack) just pepper him with bolts. Each one that hits, DC 13 fortitude save or pass out. Enough bolts, and he's down. (No matter how high his fort save is, there's a 5% chance of failure.) Once he goes down draw the line and you win.

Basically just pepper him with shots and hope you don't accidentally kill him. (snip)

"Magic Missile"? "Pepper him with shots"?? "Turn him into a pincushion"?? Hello? This isn't a dungeon crawl where you're supposed to kick in the door and slaughter someone. It's a simulation.

The assignment as I understand it is NOT "Must get charcoal line on target's neck no matter how", but "Prove you're crafty enough to sneak into someone's house at night who is expecting an assassination, silently slit his throat and get out without anyone noticing" and the charcoal line is only to prove you were there and got close enough.

Any thug can use brute force. They're training as assassins, dammit, not as paramilitaries. :smallannoyed: I thought the whole point of the assassin PrC was being stylish while killing the victim without drawing undue attention to yourself. Not barging in waving crossbows and axes.

The point is, the mentor won't set up an unsolvable challenge otherwise what's the point? it is supposed to be tricky. After all, no sense on coddling a student. But it should be solvable without resorting to magic items or spells (except for what assassins get... scratch that, assassin is a PrC, at 3rd level they'll not yet have any levels in it).

I doubt a level 3 group should have access to exotic drugs or poisons. Why does everyone assume all stuff published in any supplement on the market is available for 3rd level characters?? Especially drow knock-out poison... hello? It's exotic for a reason. Unless the PCs are drow and are living in the Underdark (because the poison is made from an Underdark plant), the GM should NOT allow them to just buy it in a shop. :smallmad:


You win, and hardcore

Hardcore. *groan* Sorry, no. You didn't "win". You messed it up, and now you're made an enemy of a high-level assassin and his guild. You only proved that you have more brawn than brains.

And even if you "win"... congrats, you just killed your teacher. I can picture it: the group of young wanna-be assassins attacking the house, shooting everything that moves, then crowing with pride as they stand over their -1 hp teacher; one of them leans down to draw a line across the man's blood-speckled throat, giggling "We won!" and hugging themselves for being so smart. After all, we fulfilled the assignment... right? Right? It was all about, like, getting this line of charcoal on his neck...hehehe we showed him, didn't we?

---
A stick of charcoal sucks. Drawing a dry charcoal line on skin is next to impossible. Maybe a pen and ink would be acceptable, too? No?

Maybe they can ask older students for tips and tricks? If you simply can't solve the test, humbly tell the teacher you aren't ready yet and need more tutoring.

Maybe this guy "never sleeps" because he wears a Ring of Sustenance (3.5 version) and only needs 2 hours of sleep? Maybe he sleeps during the day?


We went in the window last time, the rogue snuck over to the bed and there was a Dummy in the bed. The teacher jumped out of the shadows and broke her arm.

That's actually pretty shrewd. :smallamused: I think that mentor guy is pretty cool.

Edited to add:

I have a feeling that your DM is just going to do an 'he appears behind you and breaks your arm' thing no matter what you do (Core D&D doesn't even have a system for limb breaks, so that's kinda a giveaway, isn't it?), but forcing more information out of a DM can sometimes make them stop that.

Why do you automatically assume the GM is a jerk? To me it sounded like the player of the rogue made a beeline towards the bed, without entertaining the notion that the person in bed could be a fake (the dummy). He was rash and didn't stop to check the rest of the room. Having the teacher merely break the student's arm (hey, assassin training is a school of hard knocks) not knifing him in the back sends the message: 'Ok, if this had been a real situation, you would now be dead, because you were careless. Be glad I'm merely breaking your arm. Find a healer and then come back for your next lesson.'

---
Hm... does the teacher have servants that can be bribed... no forget that, he won't. Unless this training scenario simulates a specific choice of target, say a noble's household, then the question should be allowed what other persons might be in the house. Maybe that hypothetical noble would have bribable servants.

Do the stairs have a railing you can use to bypass the steps?

Telonius
2007-03-08, 10:59 AM
Okay, he's probably got a bunch of levels in the Assassin PrC. So he'll have maybe an extra +3-5 to his saves vs. poison. Bad fort save, bad will save.

How good is your Bluff check? Do you have both a Cleric and a Wizard in the group?

You find the Assassin teacher. Look concerned, and ask him: "Are you all right? You look terrible."
Assassin: "Fine, why do you ask?"
Rogue: "Well ... you have some odd markings on your face."
Assassin: "What?!"
Rogue: "Here, have a look!" (Wizard casts Silent Image or Minor Image on the mirror you've brought with you. Use Silent Spell on it, if possible.)
Assassin: "Ack!!!!"
Cleric: "You know, I was just reading about this - it's called Witch's Touch. Fortunately we've caught this early. If I can treat it now, it won't spread."
Assassin: "Spread?"
Cleric: "Oh, yes, if it spreads, well ... let's just hope it doesn't spread. At least you aren't exhibiting more symptoms."
Assassin: "What are the other symptoms?"
Cleric: "Well, the main one is seeing spots before your eyes."
Wizard: (Casts a silenced Dancing Lights).
Assassin: "AAAuuughh!!"
Rogue: "We'd better get you back to bed."
Cleric: "I can help you with the treatment - it's a bit tricky, but nothing I can't handle."
Assassin: "Oh dear. Yes, please, come on in..."

Later...

Cleric: (after doing some first aid-ish things) "All right, now you're going to have to sleep very soundly tonight. Just to be sure, our Wizard can cast Sleep on you. Okay?"
Assassin: "Sure, just get this thing cured!"
Wizard casts Sleep, Cleric draws line on neck, they escape.

You might want to hook up with the local healer to get him in on the gag.

The_Werebear
2007-03-08, 11:04 AM
You could always go down the chimney and get him while he is setting a fire.

Attilargh
2007-03-08, 12:06 PM
Now I got it! You must apply the Inverse Ninja Law by getting the superiors of the teacher to assign enough backup for him and then proceed to challenge the whole team in a combat to the last man/person uncharcoaled.

ravenkith
2007-03-08, 12:47 PM
An adventuring school, huh?

If University taught me anything, it's that school is about two things: book learning, and hands-on experience.

It's clear that you can't just rush in and get this one done.

So maybe it's time for some research?

1. Former students who were successful? Find & interview them?
2. Records? Has the guy written any papers on B&E and assasination? Or on counter assassination? Either could be very helpful in plotting your strategy.
3. Spend some time studying the target. Get to know his schedule.
4. Spread some money around: bribe other students to make constant attempts on him, get him tired out: Don't take your own bruises if you don't have to.

Remember: he knows you (or someone like you) is coming. He has probably got alarms & protections out the yin-yang.

This reminds me of the Colin Farrell/Al Pacino CIA movie (the agency? can't recall). Watch for inspiration?

With no magic, your task will be hard.

Silence, Sleep, Prestidigitation...all of these would be lovely, but are unusable as things stand....

Maybe you could ninja it....

Ever see those old movies where ninja go into the attic, lower a piece of twine, and run poison down the twine into their target's mouth?

Maybe you can go in while he's out, and set up a similar situation? Except, instead of poison, make it ink...?

Seffbasilisk
2007-03-08, 06:29 PM
"Magic Missile"? "Pepper him with shots"?? "Turn him into a pincushion"?? Hello? This isn't a dungeon crawl where you're supposed to kick in the door and slaughter someone. It's a simulation.

The assignment as I understand it is NOT "Must get charcoal line on target's neck no matter how", but "Prove you're crafty enough to sneak into someone's house at night who is expecting an assassination, silently slit his throat and get out without anyone noticing" and the charcoal line is only to prove you were there and got close enough.

That's why you stop shooting when he drops. And it IS get a charcoal line on his neck to prove that you COULD have slit his throat. The entire point of being an assassin is NOT playing by the rules, because otherwise you wouldn't be trying to kill someone. You have to prove you could have slit his throat, if he's roughed up a bit in it? Tend to his wounds. That's it. Don't try to out-sneak a guy who's been sneaking his whole life and is good enough at it to be a mentor/teacher. Do the unexpected.


Any thug can use brute force. They're training as assassins, dammit, not as paramilitaries. :smallannoyed: I thought the whole point of the assassin PrC was being stylish while killing the victim without drawing undue attention to yourself. Not barging in waving crossbows and axes.

Aye, but if you suddenly pop in through windows and doors, and rain shots on him until he drops, then have two with readied actions to shoot if he's still fighting and just playing you for dupes while the others tend his wounds and charcoal his neck. 1d6. Even x2 (Crit), the odds of doing 11+ damage on a single shot isn't too good. It's not with axes, it's with crossbows.



I doubt a level 3 group should have access to exotic drugs or poisons. Why does everyone assume all stuff published in any supplement on the market is available for 3rd level characters?? Especially drow knock-out poison... hello? It's exotic for a reason. Unless the PCs are drow and are living in the Underdark (because the poison is made from an Underdark plant), the GM should NOT allow them to just buy it in a shop. :smallmad:

Assassins? Poisons? They're training to be assassins, they should have access to a variety. And even if that's not enough, they can work underworld connections and get some.



Hardcore. *groan* Sorry, no. You didn't "win". You messed it up, and now you're made an enemy of a high-level assassin and his guild. You only proved that you have more brawn than brains.

No, you won, he might be a little upset he didn't forsee this kind of tactic, but he wouldn't be an enemy unless he's a total tool. And it's not brawn, it's just being more chaotic then he'd expect.


And even if you "win"... congrats, you just killed your teacher. I can picture it: the group of young wanna-be assassins attacking the house, shooting everything that moves, then crowing with pride as they stand over their -1 hp teacher; one of them leans down to draw a line across the man's blood-speckled throat, giggling "We won!" and hugging themselves for being so smart. After all, we fulfilled the assignment... right? Right? It was all about, like, getting this line of charcoal on his neck...hehehe we showed him, didn't we?

Read Above. You DIDN'T kill him. And even if he's at -1? Charcoal, stabalize him, get him a-healing, clean up the house, and get out. Won't feel pretty, but it'll've worked. The guy broke an arm. He's showing it's not all games. There's a real threat to your lives in this. So you show an equal disregard for his personal comfort.


A stick of charcoal sucks. Drawing a dry charcoal line on skin is next to impossible. Maybe a pen and ink would be acceptable, too? No?

Ahhh. No. I've had charcoal drawings on my flesh a good number of times. Get it a little wet and it draws with ease. Especially if it's only enough for a single line. Doing it without him feeling it? Better hope you're fast or he's really asleep because it's a tad scratchy.



Maybe they can ask older students for tips and tricks? If you simply can't solve the test, humbly tell the teacher you aren't ready yet and need more tutoring.

THEY're supposed to solve it. Not older students. If you can't solve the test then you're shamed, and probably turned away. He's shown he's willing to let you try again, so you don't puss out.

MeklorIlavator
2007-03-08, 06:34 PM
Okay, he's probably got a bunch of levels in the Assassin PrC. So he'll have maybe an extra +3-5 to his saves vs. poison. Bad fort save, bad will save.

How good is your Bluff check? Do you have both a Cleric and a Wizard in the group?

You find the Assassin teacher. Look concerned, and ask him: "Are you all right? You look terrible."
Assassin: "Fine, why do you ask?"
Rogue: "Well ... you have some odd markings on your face."
Assassin: "What?!"
Rogue: "Here, have a look!" (Wizard casts Silent Image or Minor Image on the mirror you've brought with you. Use Silent Spell on it, if possible.)

Why not just make him think that there is a charcoal line across his neck?

Deus Mortus
2007-03-08, 07:20 PM
Step by step procedure, the hiding way.

1. Find a layout of his house (possibly post it here, so we can help more)
2. Find an entry point, this should be hidden, close to a hiding spot and easily accessible, think of a chimney, or perhaps a not much used window.
2. Find a hiding place, make sure this has a view of his bed and make it an unlikely place to hide, chances are this guy will be checking his house before going to sleep, perhaps tie yourself to a roof behind a curtain and proper camouflage.
3. Wait until he is asleep and then wait some more, make sure he is long gone, then grab your charcoal, draw the line and get out.

Step by step procedure, the planting poison way.

1. Learn about an amulet he is wearing or other jewelery or clothing.
2. Get your hands on it, if it's clothing yank it while it's at the laundry, if it's jewelery, "accidentally" make it dirty with a hard to clean stain and offer to clean it up for him.
3. Line it with charcoal, with jewelery, just line the inside, as thinly as possible, with clothing, grab something black and go nutty with the insides.
4. Next time he's wearing it, point out what you have done and tell him that could be a contact poison, an assassin's weapon is more then a dagger, poison is much more eloquent.

Step by step procedure, the bribing way.

1. Find out anyone close to him.
2. Offer them incentive to help you with a small task
3. Tell them to make a line while he is asleep/plant poison on jewelery as above

Step by step procedure, the politician's way.

1. Find out a dark secret, this doesn't have to be anything, just big enough to make him ashamed of it.
2. Send him an anonymous letter, which tells him to come to a certain inn and stay there for three nights, he will be encountered there somewhere in that time frame and a price to not reveal that secret will be told and a deal will be made.
3. Put an extremely strong sleeping drug with no taste or smell in all his food that works after a few hours, so that he will sleep tight.
4. Draw the line.

Step by step procedure, the poison way.

1. Climb up to a window close to his bedroom.
2. Scan it to find where the man is sleeping, make sure you it isn't a dummy again.
3. Grab a blowpipe with a strong sleeping potion and shoot him with it.
4. Draw the charcoal line and then paint over it with a slowly desolving paint, that will be gone by the time you have class with him.

This way he will think he just fell asleep and during class you can point it to him.

ExHunterEmerald
2007-03-08, 07:43 PM
Why not just make him think that there is a charcoal line across his neck?

Now THAT is an idea.

Give him a (cautious) prod on the forehead before you do anything else. Give him a showy grin and display the stick.
"You got somethin' on your neck, Teach..."
When he moves his hand to it, say, "Oh no, we had to be careful to avoid waking you up. It's a very light line..."
When he goes to the mirror, ker-assassin!

RS14
2007-03-08, 08:05 PM
Hm...

Check if he wears a ring of sustenance. He will need to keep it on at all times, so just look to see if it is on.

He is expecting you. He's not about to sleep in his bed. Assume he sleeps in a locked closet with alarms set. In fact, maybe you should give up on the bedroom. It could require getting deep into his house (I'm not sure how big this place is), and it is the obvious place for a hit anyway. In any case, assume he can ward himself while he sleeps to detect anybody entering. If not, great. As for entering the house, see if you can't get down the chimney (CAREFULLY!). Pick the locks. Take 20 on search of course. Look for any holes under the eaves or near the foundation. Perhaps you can enter the attic by removing shingles and replacing them afterwards.

Bury a needle coated in the poison of your choice in his mattress, chair, carpet, etc. In fact, carefully concealed caltrops might be perfect. He must eat and drink. Assume he casts detect poison on at least some of the things he consumes. He will be alerted by poison in one meal.

Grapple him, pin him, and draw the line. Knock him out if he doesn't calm down after you've charcoaled him. This might be good if you've got a bunch of big basher types. On the other hand, if he can simply break your arms then you're screwed.

Can you watch him as he goes about his business? How does he go up the stairs? A mirror might be useful for watching him.

Disguise yourself and grab him when he least expects it. A big tough fighter snatching him up from behind might do it, but of course it should be in a quiet place. Tripping might also be worthwhile.

Tail him while in disguise, and learn what he does every day. It's not like he can break Fred the tinker's arm in the middle of town just for walking by. He will probably vary his routine, but it's worth a shot.

If he has an outhouse, wait for him to enter, then charcoal him when he steps out.

purepolarpanzer
2007-03-08, 09:29 PM
I go with the Were-Bear's idea. Do something competely off-the-wall to throw your DM really off balance, like
-setting fire to the house
-putting giant spiders in his room to (distract or poisen) him, then charcoal when not expecting it.
-shoot him in the neck with a charcoal tipped blunt bolt/arrow.
-make a deal with an imp to watch him and tell you where he goes, trading someone's soul (probably some random LE NPC who you can kill for the imp, sending him to Bator) for the job.
- Try to poisen him When he realizes it, smile and admit he's won. Then have your fighter impale him, then mark his neck with the charcoal.
"Now for your lesson, teacher. Don't. F***. With. Me."

Stormcrow
2007-03-08, 09:37 PM
Wow, you guys are pretty thorough. Let me try and give some more detail.

Party is.
Lvl 3 Rogue
Lvl 3 Ranger
Lvl 2 Ranger +1LA
Lvl 3 Fighter

The target (aka. Teach) is never supposed to know you were there, so attacking him is way out. Its got to be a stealth kill in as much as the equilivent of ONE dagger slash, that kills the target. Not shoot the guy a thousand times THEN cut his throat.

The set up.

The house is two rooms over two floors. The bottom is a living/kitchen area. It has a fireplace a door and two windows, of note there are four lanters lit at night.

Upstairs is the study/dining/bedroom. It has four windows and a trap door in the ceiling thats locked from the inside. The entire flat roof is covered in highly noise conductive gravel. the bedroom has a large round table in the center and a bed in the corner.

We believe but its un-confirmed that there is a space under the stairs.

Go Nuts.

Assassinfox
2007-03-08, 09:44 PM
Is the rogue's arm still broken?

Stormcrow
2007-03-08, 10:08 PM
No she's all healed up.

I should also mention that there aren't any students to ask NO ONE has ever completed this challenge (there are lots of challenges around the school). We just finished 1st year out of the possible three years of schooling so we've got some time for a lengthy plan.

We're on winter break right now in game and i'm hoping to get a few levels in the down time.

RS14
2007-03-08, 10:14 PM
Nice setup he's got.

One other thing occurred to me. Have you thought about the possibility that this guy sleeps during the day?

The gravel on the roof doesn't seem too hard to deal with if you can move it while he is away to leave clear patches to step in.

What I'm thinking now is that the trapdoor is the way to go in. Rig the hinges (not the latch) to give when weight is put on it, or so it can be pulled straight up. If you can rig the lock in a similar, non-obvious way, that's good too. If possible, drop onto him via the trap door and charcoal him before he reacts. The problem is that the whole surprise round is used up when you drop in, and then you've got to win initiative. As an assassin, we can bet his init is high. Possibly you could convince your DM to treat this as a charge (akin to a pounce attack) if you were landing right on him. The other problem is getting him below the trap door.

Wait... Perhaps a better way? He takes a -5 to spot and listen checks if distracted. Let's say that somebody (i.e. a PC in a very good disguise) knocks on his door with a suitable excuse. This depends on his temprement of course... If he'd kill them in cold blood for disturbing him, then this is not the plan for you. Let's say he is a traveler asking for directions (Of course you need some way to disguise his voice. Perhaps keep a scarf around the traveler's mouth if it is cold.), or maybe a shepard searching for a sheep. But make him think! Tell him "Why that's strange... (the teacher's good friend) Mr. Godwin said he'd heard you say you'd found a sheep just yesterday. Well, strange things like that happen. Sorry to bother you sir." Make him wonder where such confusion is from, and while he is thinking and flat footed, the second player (who's been sneaking up from behind) slashes the teacher's neck with charcoal. The disguised character better have a bright lantern (a bullseye lantern at knee level?) to drown out any shadows from inside that might be seen by the teacher.

RS14
2007-03-08, 10:29 PM
Doh! He'll have uncanny dodge, so there's no catching him flat-footed.

It also occurred to me that he may have an extra-dimensional space to sleep. That could make him much harder to catch asleep, but at the same time he might be caught while exiting his sleeping space.

SpiderBrigade
2007-03-08, 11:12 PM
I have this to say.
I think my DM designed it to be unbeatable. Thats why i'm committed. Going to wipe the smile off his face.If it's meant to be unbeatable, it will be. If you find clever and/or stupid ways to get around the listed obstacles, don't be surprised if new ones appear. The teacher may suddenly reveal previously-unknown casting ability, or have an item of charcoal repulsion, or whatever it takes to foil your scheme on the fly.

My guess would be that your DM might not be completely commited to the challenge being unbeatable, which is good. But he may intend it to be unbeatable until you level up some. Or, it might really be unbeatable, but he wants to play that up for comic effect, like that one early episode of Naruto, or Spy vs Spy, where your increasingly elaborate schemes just keep failing and failing. Thing is, that's funny to watch, but no so much to play.

EvilElitest
2007-03-08, 11:23 PM
OK i have to agree with Tobrian here. Again. Strangly enough i did an activity like this in real life. We had to sneak into houses (the people were warned before hand) and steal a certain object and/or kill the owner. Very fun. I did four houses and only lost one. The other thief left me for the guards. Anyways.
Very important question
Does he know what night your doing it?


1. You know some of the basics of this guys sleeping time. It is apperently not during class time. If all of your are in his class then have one guy skip (one of the rangers he will surspect the rouge) and go to his house. Have him into the house and look around. Don't go up the stairs or thoug the upstairs window. Then go to the house across from the window (I need more details to figure out how) and find out the details of the room from afar.
2. Wait until he comes back and watch him (have a second ranger switch with the first) from the window. If you can see him put a dummy in your good. If he does not get into the bed then try to figure out where from your vangate point he sleeps.
3. If he does not put a dummy in the bed but does not do it him self, wait a week then have somebody else (the fighter) and the first ranger go to the house again. Have the fighter go up the stairs and get knocked out. Oh yes, make sure that he is not teaching but is not home ether. Find out what the trap does. I very don't think it would be a deathly one. Then leave the house and set up a watch. Waith until he comes back and sees his trap has been used. Then find out how he sets it.
4. He breaks a guys arm for sneaking in, the he must be a brutal guy. Find aid from students. Not info just help. Students hate most teacher who break their limbs, so you should gets tons of help. GET A WIZARD. A wizard with unseen servent.
5. Get a team asembled and use unseen servent as well as all your sneaky people to get him. Need more details to say more
from,
EE

Attilargh
2007-03-09, 03:09 AM
The target (aka. Teach) is never supposed to know you were there, so attacking him is way out. Its got to be a stealth kill in as much as the equilivent of ONE dagger slash, that kills the target. Not shoot the guy a thousand times THEN cut his throat.
I must point out that it is technically nigh-impossible to kill anything (that is not helpless) above 2nd level with a single dagger slash. Firstly because the dagger's damage output is so bloody small, and secondly because it does piercing damage. :wink:

As an aside, cutting someone's throat is messy and gives the target the opportunity to make a disgusting gurgling sound. Stab him in the back instead, much cleaner and more silent. Or use a crossbow.

Scout, scout, scout the place for hiding places or traps or anything. He just can't be that short on furniture.

Some weird ideas:

Break in and refurnish his house. Put the table in the corner, and the bed on the opposite wall. Mess his routines up and provide yourself some advantages.

Then take the crappy route. He won't see that coming!

Try to get him into teaching you some good plans for entering a "hypothetical" building, which in reality is the one you've just created.

Follow them, but switch to an original plan halfway. Alternatively, follow them poorly or don't follow them at all.

Trap his own house. Preferably so that he'll be immobilised somewhere.

Switch his bed with one that will drop him into a box and lock him there. Or with one you can hide in safely.

Tamper with his food. If you can't achieve knockout, diarrhoea works just as well, provided you know where his latrine is.

Tamper with the lanterns and fireplace so that they release a poisonous gas when lit.

Tobrian
2007-03-09, 04:22 AM
I must point out that it is technically nigh-impossible to kill anything (that is not helpless) above 2nd level with a single dagger slash. Firstly because the dagger's damage output is so bloody small, and secondly because it does piercing damage. :wink:

Nope. PHB 3.5, page 116, table 7-5 Weapons: Entry for dagger says: "piercing or slashing". It's a mistake they corrected from the 3.0 edition.

As for killing with one blow, rogues and assassins get sneak attacks, for mid-to-higher-level characters there's lots of feats and other tricks to "force" an opportunity for a sneak attack, and I think the assassin PrC gets a special feat called "death shot"?
(Yes, no? I'm not sure right now if it's part of the assassin PrC in the WotC DMG, or from the assassin class in 'Power Classes 1: Assassin' by d20 Mongoose Publishing. Both use similar ideas, though.) Once you have an oopportunity to sneak attack using coup-de-grace, you can do the instant-kill even under d20 D&D rules. Espcially if you manage to drain the victim's CON (and thus his FORT save bonus) beforehand.
And then you disappear using invis and trackless step.

Assassins can be made pretty lethal (well it's the point of that class isn't it?) but they're not written towards brute smash-in-windows force. I usually only allow them as NPCs though because maxed-out prestige assassins are pretty much a one-trick pony. Flashy in a ninja Hongkong movie way, but...

...for PCs I much prefer assassins build up on other classes than combat rogue or fighter, unless you just basically want to play a sniper. Closer to the real-world equivalent, where the assassin often turned out to be the courtesan, servant girl or that wizened old gardener that no-one bothers to notice. Like... our friend Garak, tinker, tailor, spy, and assassin. :smallwink:


But back to topic:
I think a prospective assassin could profit from the same strategy that stage magicians use: Divert your audience's attention away from what you're doing. If the target already expects a burglar or assassination attack in his house at night, you must sneak in during the day and then hole up somewhere, stay quit, and when everyone's gone to sleep (except the guards perhaps) you move. The advantage is that their attention is directed outwards while you're already inside.

Unless the target is really really paranoid and checks in every cupboard and under the bed every hour, of course, because then you're pretty much screwed without access to spells like invis and spider climb and some silencing magic items.

Since the exercise does only involve fake-killing, I'm not sure if sleeping poison is allowed.

Max out your sneaky skills and take 10 or 20 whenever it's allowed. Take your time. To mask your movements you might invest in a little diversion outside the house... for example have an ally set a few dogs to fight outside in the street or stage a loud brawl, anything that allows you to move close to the target and then wait until he goes back to bed. Or even find some NPC burglar who's dumb enough to break into the target's house (ok, this works with a merchant's household, but I guess not in this special case, unless no-one in the criminal underground knows the teacher is an assassin). After a couple of unsuspicious-looking distractions and one of two false alarms over the course of several days, attention might be waning.

Heh, if that house has an attic, the best thing for making lots of noise in the middle of the night is a marten. If you can manage to get one up there and settle in, it goes bump in the night, no-one notices a 3rd level rogue sneaking around. Or rats... ask a local ratcatcher if he has a whole nest of them. Most houses in a D&D world shuld already have mice or rats already, either in the thatch or in the attic (provided it's a bigger house or manor with shingles and attic and stuff). Adding a whole nest of rats with a pregnant female rat that is busy gnawing gnawing all night in the wall, going squeek squeek makes a lot of background noise.

Are there neighboring houses? If it's in a city, most houses short of manors stands wall-to-wall, so it should be easy to get on the roof. Just beware of traps like sliding shingles or loose roofing tiles on greased rails. If one suddenly drops and smashes in the street in the middle of the night, it means something or someone is on the roof.

What about chimneys? Houses in D&D shouldn't have central heating. Most houses either have ovens or if they can afford it a fireplace with a chimney. Only if the chimney is broad enough to admit a person climbing down and even if you'Re lucky and there's no fire and smoke coming from below, there might be an iron grating blocking the fireplace above the hearth, to prevent cats and burglars from climbing in. But it might be removable to allow chimney-sweeps to climb up through the fireplace. Chimney-sweeps often were children in those times, though, so make sure your student assassin is small and bendy. Some fume outlets had bends in them, too, and didn't go straight down and up.

I guess taking a few ranks in Knowledge (Architecture) is useful for any assassin working in a town or city.

Edited to add: Oops, I should've scrolled all the way up before I posted. I missed your first reply, Stormcrow.

The house is two rooms over two floors. The bottom is a living/kitchen area. It has a fireplace a door and two windows, of note there are four lanters lit at night.

Upstairs is the study/dining/bedroom. It has four windows and a trap door in the ceiling thats locked from the inside. The entire flat roof is covered in highly noise conductive gravel. the bedroom has a large round table in the center and a bed in the corner.

We believe but its un-confirmed that there is a space under the stairs.

He has a flat roof?? Oh. Hm... so possibly this house looks more like one of those Renaissance manors/townhouses in Italy, than the usually gabled houses in northern Europe? THese villas were often heavily fortified with thick walls and small windows at ground level up to a height of over two meters, to protect against mobs. I guess windows, at least at the ground floor level, have iron bars on the outside?

Ok. Flat roof with a trapdoor. He will of course expect someone coming through it.

If the gravel is designed for making lots of noise, it's a tough challenge to beat without magic of some sort. Does he check if the gravel has been disturbed every day? Otherwise you could try to move it and clear a path over several days, with Unseen Servant or Prestidigitation.
Maybe this works: Get some large fluffy thick woolen blankets. Carefully put them on top of the gravel and crawl forwards, rinse repeat.

PErsonally I don't think this challenge is unbeatable, in-character. Or if it is unbeatable by 3rd level PCs, then it is designed as a test for students to show off their skills and how clever they are. Unless your GM is a real bastard and gives the distinct impression he's trying to have some amusement at your expense, roadrunner and coyote style, maybe this challenge isn't so much about "winning" or "beating" the teacher, in-character, and more about testing the students' resourcefulness and ideas and especially their patience and resistance to frustration. After all, being an assassin isn't all glamour and just turning up, offing the victim and then swinging off into the night. A brash assassin without patience gets killed quickly.
If you could easily outwit your own teacher who teaches assassination, he wouldn't be much of a competent teacher now would he? He'd be dead.

Edit#2:
The Discworld novels Pyramids and Night Watch both have similar scenes with student assassins being tested in a practical exam situation. Both times, the goal was not to actually kill the target but to avoid traps and demonstrate your planning and skills. After all, students can learn from failures, too. Only for assassins, any mistake can end up deadly; overconfident students need to learn to be more careful and not go blundering about. I repeat breaking a student's arm as a lesson is completely justified... after all, you are training to be assassins! A student who whines about his teachers being a big meanie should apply for another job... maybe librarian.

Hell, in the real world history, you only need to go back a few centuries, or 100 years at most, to find examples of teachers treating students roughly and nobody cared. In the middle ages or Renaissance times it was common for families to send their sons off to some other household or city to be apprenticed there, learn some craft, or for the sons of nobles to grow up in another noble's household. There's historical documents showing that these children were treated pretty roughly, even and especially the sons of nobles who were expected to learn humility, to follow orders and endure hardships; children apprenticed to craftsmen were beaten or in one documented case even had their arm broken as punishment by their master. Of course mutialting or abusing your charge wasn't exactly seen a good thing, but pedagogics mostly meant punishment.

Attilargh
2007-03-09, 04:56 AM
Nope. PHB 3.5, page 116, table 7-5 Weapons: Entry for dagger says: "piercing or slashing". It's a mistake they corrected from the 3.0 edition.
Oops. Memory malfunction.


As for killing with one blow, rogues and assassins get sneak attacks, for mid-to-higher-level characters there's lots of feats and other tricks to "force" an opportunity for a sneak attack, and I think the assassin PrC gets a special feat called "death shot"?
Death attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm#deathAttack). Completely forgot those, which is rather ironic considering the subject of the thread.

:redface:

Tobrian
2007-03-09, 04:59 AM
No problem.
I was busy editing and re-editing my above post, just to add some more last-minute thoughts. Ramble ramble....

Edited to add:
One thing that is great for creating distractions but often overlooking in roleplaying is the weather. Storms, thunderstorms, heavy rains can mask a lot of noise, flickering lightning can mess up night vision of anyone looking out a window, etc.

Ofcourse, waiting for a thunderstorm can be tedious, and using a thunderstorm with heavy rains might get you successfully past the gravel trap, but coming through a trapdoor from the roof while it's streaming with rain outside is rather noticable. Even if the teachers isn't in the room at the moment, be careful to mop up any puddles the rain has left when it entered with you.
Seriously, that trapdoor in a flat untilted roof should better be well-crafted to be raintight, or that bedroom has a problem with a leaking roof.

Maybe the guy sleeps in the cellar? Don't tell me the house doesnt have a cellar of some sorts where they store food and wine and beer. Especially if it only has a ground floor and a first floor making it a smaller house. Most houses like that used to belong to shopkeepers or craftsmen with the (work)shop at ground floor level and the bedroom above. THere's no room to store food that in a cellar.

Cellars... in towns, sometimes cellars are bricked-up former ground floors of houses of previous centuries. In Edinburgh for examplöe there's a whole underground "city" below, in some places ten storeys below street level, all abandoned now and often filled with rubble or bricked up except where its safe for tourists guided tours. Somestimes, the cellars of neighboring houses are only a brickwall away. Or well... if the house has a well in the cellar, it might lead to an underground tunnel system that rogues and assassins use. (I'm not saying it absolutely has to be there, since most wells are just shafts with no tunnels whatsoever attached, but fantasy authors love those underground secret tunnel systems.)

BlueWizard
2007-03-09, 06:49 AM
Must be a poor assassination teacher if a low level party can do this.

EvilElitest
2007-03-10, 12:00 AM
Tobian has a lot covered. We more details about what is in the house. Oh and we love unseen servent.
from,
EE

Reltzik
2007-03-10, 12:34 PM
Haven't read all the thread yet, but as far as getting the charcoal on him without waking him up, you could simply sprinkle a line of ground charcoal across his neck. That will leave its mark without applying so much force as to awake him.

.... and, really, even if he isn't vindictive.... you're waking up a master assassin in the dead of the night with the feel of something against his jugular. Even if he wouldn't hold a grudge, you have to take instinctive response into account.

Jothki
2007-03-10, 05:08 PM
So you're first-year students in a three-year course, and you're already attempting to defeat an instructor? I think this will be a lesson in of itself about humility. If you want to have a chance, come back when your Move Silently checks are higher.