Let's Watch: Trigun

[Math_Mage]

Let's Watch:
http://i.imgur.com/9nuBXtP.jpg

You know the drill: there's a show I haven't watched, I'm gonna watch it, I'm gonna have reactions and speculations and rants and judgments and ratings (not out of 10, though, that's boring). Maybe other people have reactions to my reactions. Then there will be cake. That's the norm for these things, I think.

I know very little about Trigun. It's a bit of a classic. There's a guy called Vash the Stampede; he's a goofball (but also a badass, I assume), and he's got three gu--wait, he doesn't? Why's it called Trigun, then? Oh, and I heard there's some recurring theme about whether people are able to live up to their own ideals, or something.

...Does he actually have three guns after all? I don't even know.

Spoilers go in titled spoiler boxes, of course, but try not to clog the whole page with them. I'd rather be a part of the discussion.

First episode will go up tomorrow. Beyond that, I can't say yet, but I'll eventually settle into a regular schedule.

Episode 1: The $$60 Billion Man (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18004475#post18004475)
Episode 2: Truth of Mistake (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18027093#post18027093)
Episode 3: Peace Maker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18043193#post18043193)
Episode 4: Love and Peace (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18048565#post18048565)
Episode 5: Hard Puncher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18054764#post18054764)
Episode 6: Lost July (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18070197#post18070197)
Interlude: Badlands Rumble (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18117914#post18117914)
Episode 7: BDN & Episode 8: And Between The Wasteland And Sky (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18355780#post18355780)
Episode 9: Murder Machine (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?368560-Let-s-Watch-Trigun&p=18365575#post18365575)

[Moak]

[Subscribe the thread]

I LOVE Trigun. And yes, he his a goofball. And... even after watching all the series the title can be misleading. Don't think too much about it.

Simply sit back, enjoy your ride, and LOVE AND PEACE!

[Suichimo]

Depending on what you count the Angel Arm as, yeah, he does have three guns. His revolver, the gun in his arm, and the Angel Arm. Though he has used more than those.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Oh Trigun one of the 3 "Westerns" of 90s anime, and the one I consider to really be the best.

*looks around* Uhoh...there is the Cowboy Bebop Mob again..I uh better run :smalleek:

[DigoDragon]

Trigun is a fantastic series for it's western feel and crazy gun play.


Oh Trigun one of the 3 "Westerns" of 90s anime, and the one I consider to really be the best.

What's the third one? :3

[ryuplaneswalker]

Trigun is a fantastic series for it's western feel and crazy gun play.



What's the third one? :3

Outlaw Star Duh.

[LaZodiac]

I'd just like you to know that, technically, you're still not supposed to know who Vash the Stampede is. It's a weird sort of mental trick where you KNOW our yellow haired idiot is Vash, but the first couple of episodes really play up the idea that maybe he isn't, and that's really cool. But yeah, hope you enjoy because Trigun is friggin' great.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Depending on what you count the Angel Arm as, yeah, he does have three guns. His revolver, the gun in his arm, and the Angel Arm. Though he has used more than those.
Alternately, it's the Cross Punisher, which he wields at the end.

YAHOOOOOOO!

[LaZodiac]

Hey just a reminder guys, he said to put titles on the spoiler boxes so he doesn't accidentily open them. So...do that. I'll just note now that they're about weather or not Vash has three guns, and would probably be considered massive spoilers.

Also, here's something that ISN'T a spoiler, that I want you to know. Every episode has a specific black cat show up in it. Find that cat every episode.

[Dragonus45]

Outlaw Star Duh.

Incidentally my personal favorite. Now if you need me I'll be in my bunker.

[DigoDragon]

Outlaw Star Duh.

Okay, I wanted to make sure that was the one. Also a fun series. :3

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Also, here's something that ISN'T a spoiler, that I want you to know. Every episode has a specific black cat show up in it. Find that cat every episode.
Nyaaaaaaa

:smallbiggrin:

[Reverent-One]

In a turn of events that will surprise no one, I approve of this.

[Math_Mage]

Also, here's something that ISN'T a spoiler, that I want you to know. Every episode has a specific black cat show up in it. Find that cat every episode.
Just so I'm clear, is this cat also a ninja, or will I be able to notice it while actually watching the story? :smalltongue:


In a turn of events that will surprise no one, I approve of this.
Hm. I count two guns. That's more than I'd seen, but it's not three. Maybe the third one is special.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hm. I count two guns. That's more than I'd seen, but it's not three. Maybe the third one is special.
(not a spoiler)

"You know where a real cowboy keeps his gun? In his heart." (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTJJpwq33dw#t=32)

:smallbiggrin:

[Math_Mage]

*adds Baccano to must-watch list*
*adds Outlaw Star to must-watch list*

Dammit guys, I haven't even started this show yet. :smallamused:

[Psyren]

Trigun is great. I actually like it better than Cowboy Bebop despite the inferior production values and music. I'm a sucker for any media that explores what it is to be human and Trigun does this to a much deeper level than Bebop.


Oh Trigun one of the 3 "Westerns" of 90s anime, and the one I consider to really be the best.

*looks around* Uhoh...there is the Cowboy Bebop Mob again..I uh better run :smalleek:

There was an AMV Crossover (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhqNaG0s1LI) too! (Warning: potential mild spoilers for both series.) Watch till the end!

[CarpeGuitarrem]

*adds Baccano to must-watch list*
*adds Outlaw Star to must-watch list*

Dammit guys, I haven't even started this show yet. :smallamused:

MWAHAHAHAHA!

(Seriously, though. If you eventually watch Baccano!, and have the energy to do a LW, you totally should. I'd love to see that.)

[ryuplaneswalker]

I'd just like you to know that, technically, you're still not supposed to know who Vash the Stampede is. It's a weird sort of mental trick where you KNOW our yellow haired idiot is Vash, but the first couple of episodes really play up the idea that maybe he isn't, and that's really cool. But yeah, hope you enjoy because Trigun is friggin' great.

It is a nice bit of misdirection, they drag it out long enough to make you start doubting if this moron as presented is Vash and if they aren't going to pull a twist because by now you totally expect it to be Vash.

"They make it so Obvious that Vash is Vash, that when they reveal Vash is Vash it catches you off guard because you are now expecting a twist"



Okay, I wanted to make sure that was the one. Also a fun series. :3

haha honestly of the three I rate Trigun the straight up best, and Outlaw Star the Most Underrated, I have love for bebop but I do think it is a bit overblown compared to the other stuff that came out during its run.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I haven't seen Outlaw Star yet, but Bebop and Trigun are very much shows that feel exactly like their protagonists. If you've seen either show, you know what I mean.

[LaZodiac]

Just so I'm clear, is this cat also a ninja, or will I be able to notice it while actually watching the story? :smalltongue:


Hm. I count two guns. That's more than I'd seen, but it's not three. Maybe the third one is special.

There are a few times where the cat can slip by you, but when I watched it with a friend we were able to find every one. So it's not that hard.

Yeah, there are two guns in the opening. It's a really GOOD opening, too.

[Fjolnir]

This is one of my favorite animes and I am looking forward to seeing your reactions to the series, it is also one where the voice work is really tight in both the sub and dub...

[Math_Mage]

This is one of my favorite animes and I am looking forward to seeing your reactions to the series, it is also one where the voice work is really tight in both the sub and dub...
Oh, that's good. I was about to start watching in dub last night, but this comment made me realize that I hadn't actually thought about whether to watch dub or sub. Guess I don't have anything to worry about.

Also, comments like these confirm to me that holding off on this show to watch Steins;Gate was a Bad Decision. :smallyuk:

[LaZodiac]

Oh, that's good. I was about to start watching in dub last night, but this comment made me realize that I hadn't actually thought about whether to watch dub or sub. Guess I don't have anything to worry about.

Also, comments like these confirm to me that holding off on this show to watch Steins;Gate was a Bad Decision. :smallyuk:

The dub for Trigun is stellar, feel free to watch that.

Hey now, Steins;Gate is amazing. I've heard the dub isn't good if only because almost all the jokes only work if they're said in Japanese (because then the Engrish bits are funnier) but yeah. Don't be dissin' Steins;Gate :smallfrown:

[Math_Mage]

The dub for Trigun is stellar, feel free to watch that.

Hey now, Steins;Gate is amazing. I've heard the dub isn't good if only because almost all the jokes only work if they're said in Japanese (because then the Engrish bits are funnier) but yeah. Don't be dissin' Steins;Gate :smallfrown:
I watched with sub and dub juxtaposed for about half the show, and apart from some nicknames and some colloquialisms there didn't seem to be a significant difference. It's pretty clear where the Engrish would be, too.

My main problem with S;G was that the latter third-ish of the show suffered from whiplash between maudlin tragedy and harem silliness, culminating in an ending that did both at the same time; the combination destabilized the relationship between the characters and the plot, and collapsed my suspension of disbelief. There's also the usual problem with any multiverse-hopping story, namely, why should I care what happens when it happened differently the next world over--but a story is ultimately the characters' experiences, after all, so I'd be quite willing to overlook that for the sake of a better-told story. Same for a couple plot holes, Idiot Ball moments, and tech gobbledegook facepalms.

[LaZodiac]

I watched with sub and dub juxtaposed for about half the show, and apart from some nicknames and some colloquialisms there didn't seem to be a significant difference. It's pretty clear where the Engrish would be, too.

My main problem with S;G was that the latter third-ish of the show suffered from whiplash between maudlin tragedy and harem silliness, culminating in an ending that did both at the same time; the combination destabilized the relationship between the characters and the plot, and collapsed my suspension of disbelief. There's also the usual problem with any multiverse-hopping story, namely, why should I care what happens when it happened differently the next world over--but I'd be quite willing to overlook that for the sake of a better-told story. Same for a couple plot holes, Idiot Ball moments, and tech gobbledegook facepalms.

I didn't see any of that AT ALL honestly, nor do I agree. :smallredface:

I absolutely LOVE Steins;Gate :smalltongue:

Also, it IS a dating sim, so that might explain some of the things you didn't like that much.

But yeah, in the case of Trigun, do stick with the dub, if only for consistency. Vash's voice actor is Kune from .hack//GU and Adachi from Persona, so he's...kind of AMAZING, so it's worth listening to how he does all of Vash's...well, lets just say Vash is a character that would really test an actor's range, in both comedy and drama fashion.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I agree; Johnny Yong Bosch is one of my favorite voice actors. It's also funny to listen to Gankutsuou in the English, because Albert starts showing his inner Vash sometimes.

[ryuplaneswalker]

There are a few times where the cat can slip by you, but when I watched it with a friend we were able to find every one. So it's not that hard.

Yeah, there are two guns in the opening. It's a really GOOD opening, too.

Most of the music in Trigun is good, especially the Genocide Song..it is worth doing the dub version just for the Dub of that.

[LaZodiac]

Spoiler that. Please and thank you.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 1:
The $$60 Billion Man
http://i.imgur.com/lq75InQ.png


So, the cat's right there in the beginning of the opening. Is this the cameo I'm supposed to be looking for? That seems underwhelming.
There's a sidekick-looking fellow in the opening who's carrying a handheld Gatling gun. I just want to mention that this is a thing.
So, Bebop had jazz, Champloo had hip-hop, FLCL had alternative rock, and I guess Trigun has straight-up rock. I like it.
The difference in demeanor between sunglasses and no-sunglasses Vash is stark. But enough about the opening.
Our expository mooks in the saloon are talking about the trail of destruction left behind Vash...while sitting right behind Vash. Goners, the pair of 'em. *waits a moment* Yyyyyep.
mutter mutter miraculous pacifist warrior cliche mutter mutter
Red coat, earrings, short legs, mohawk, big, etc...okay, okay, mistaken identity episode coming right up.
Miraculous pacifist warrior...bumbler hemophobiac? And I guess the 'srs mode' glasses aren't actually very serious.
Insurance claim investigator or no, what is a girl with a gun like that doing with an attitude like that?
Some of this action is really unclear. Where'd the shot that cut the ropes come from, and what'd the big guy's device do to him when Vash poked it?
Next episode sounds like it has a seriously different tone. Well, given how things are going so far, that's probably misdirection.
In the course of rewatching the episode to find a good Vash screenie, I noticed the cat's in-episode cameos. Totally forgot about that while watching.


So, we have our hero, a seeming bumbling idiot with inevitable unplumbed depths. We have our viewpoint characters, Meryl Strife and Millie Thompson (sp?), who seem like bumbling idiots and may have unplumbed depths. And we have irrelevant villains who are definitely bumbling idiots and have no depths to plumb. The main hook right now is that discrepancy between Vash's body count in reputation and his well-intentioned naivete in person. The people chasing Vash seem to be pretty sanguine about killing each other off--even if Vash isn't killing anyone, you'd think he'd carry some scars from having all that death following him around. Instead, he's like a kid. Hopefully the "is he/isn't he" teasing doesn't become too much of a distraction.

Score is serviceable so far--light touch, nothing fancy. I didn't notice the animation, so it did its job. Weapons are really destructive, but also really easy to dodge or block, so the action fell a bit flat. Comedic dialogue was weak, but the absurdity should make for some good laughs down the line. Very little worldbuilding--mostly desert rocks and blasted former desert towns--but enough to be shorthand for 'Western'.

Overall, this episode did enough to hold my interest, and no more. I knew just enough about what was coming that this episode didn't hold any surprises (except Loose Ruth being mistaken for Vash), but it leaves plenty of room to surprise me later. My rating: dishes / household chores.

[Fjolnir]

There is no way I can respond to that directly without MASSIVE spoilers, though I think I can safely say that Millie's attitude is pretty much going to stay the same for the most part.

this is a plot point for the opening part of the series, though they don't really hide it from the viewer.

[jesley]

After reading this thread discussion I found Trigun interesting. Will watch it in the coming weekend and then I will give my reviews.

[Brother Oni]

even if Vash isn't killing anyone, you'd think he'd carry some scars from having all that death following him around.

Hoo boy, just wait.

[DigoDragon]

My rating: dishes / household chores.

At least nothing with spaghetti stains.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Hoo boy, just wait.
Yep, I zeroed in on that line too. :smallbiggrin: It takes a while to pay off, but yeah. Scars both physical and spiritual.

[LaZodiac]

Naw, the cat's not in the opening (well, he is, but that's not the cameo. Though that cat in particular is the one who IS the cameo, when it shows up in the episode proper.)

What Vash did to the big boomerang dude is jam up his artificial arm. Since the arm uses some sort of pully system to throw his boomerang harder, he just messed around with that, causing it to lock up.

[Math_Mage]

After reading this thread discussion I found Trigun interesting. Will watch it in the coming weekend and then I will give my reviews.
Look forward to it!


At least nothing with spaghetti stains.
Spaghetti stains are totally a laundry problem.


Naw, the cat's not in the opening (well, he is, but that's not the cameo. Though that cat in particular is the one who IS the cameo, when it shows up in the episode proper.)

What Vash did to the big boomerang dude is jam up his artificial arm. Since the arm uses some sort of pully system to throw his boomerang harder, he just messed around with that, causing it to lock up.
a) See last bullet
b) It's the relationship between 'lock up' and 'leave big guy on the deck' that's unclear. But hey, NBD.

[DigoDragon]

Spaghetti stains are totally a laundry problem.

Not sure my wife would approve of tossing the sauce pan into the washing machine. :smalltongue:


Some of the guns are neat in this series. Vash's revolver looks like it could put a hole through most things and that one bounty hunter with the dual-barrel rifle that rotates is pretty odd.

[Math_Mage]

Hilariously impractical weapons look like a series staple. Makes me wonder what Vash's guns are gonna do when they're actually loaded. It'd solve the whole "trigun" thing for me if his gun became some kind of triple-barreled monstrosity. On the other hand, maybe it's enough that they're revolvers--revolvers are always the best gun in fiction, after all.

[DigoDragon]

revolvers are always the best gun in fiction, after all.

Indeed. It's usually up for debate (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Analysis/RevolversAreJustBetter), but I'm a fan of the iconic six-shooter style so I tend to follow the trope straight. :smallbiggrin:

[Gnoman]

Something that people might find interesting (if they hadn't already noticed) is that Vash's gun fires from the bottom cylinder instead of the customary top one, a very rare design choice in real life.

[tyckspoon]

b) It's the relationship between 'lock up' and 'leave big guy on the deck' that's unclear. But hey, NBD.

I always figured that overclocking the arm like that put similar stress on the dude's shoulder/back - the muscles and nerves that would have to link into it to control a prosthetic like that. I'm sure you've seen somewhere what happens when somebody puts their back out with inadvised physical effort or just twisting the wrong way too hard.

[TheThan]

Some of this action is really unclear. Where'd the shot that cut the ropes come from?


Oh wait for it, you’ll figure out how he pulled that one off much later. But it makes sense afterwards you learn some things about Vash.

[Math_Mage]

Oh wait for it, you’ll figure out how he pulled that one off much later. But it makes sense afterwards you learn some things about Vash.
Yeah, I figured invisible competence was the only explanation for that. I guess I like that it's not made blatantly obvious.

[TheThan]

Yeah, I figured invisible competence was the only explanation for that. I guess I like that it's not made blatantly obvious.

It took me a second watching to realize where that shot came from. He doesn’t have his big honkin’ gun (and It’s empty too). It’s not explained what happened but when you learn some more about him it’ll make sense when you look back at the first episode. I'm trying hard to not spoil anything so if it's all cryptic I apologize.

[DigoDragon]

Something that people might find interesting (if they hadn't already noticed) is that Vash's gun fires from the bottom cylinder instead of the customary top one, a very rare design choice in real life.

Yeah, seems the top of the gun is the barrel weight to counter recoil, rather than the other way around.

[Math_Mage]

It took me a second watching to realize where that shot came from. He doesn’t have his big honkin’ gun (and It’s empty too). It’s not explained what happened but when you learn some more about him it’ll make sense when you look back at the first episode. I'm trying hard to not spoil anything so if it's all cryptic I apologize.
is he a cyborg
and also a gun
that carries two guns
thus making three guns

Don't worry about being cryptic. If anything, being cryptic should err on the side of being more cryptic than necessary.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Yep, Vash is really one gigantic human-shaped gun. :smalltongue:

[Fjolnir]

To be fair you don't see the second gun or third gun for QUITE some time...

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Tri ALL the guns!

[J-H]

Hurray, it's the only Anime I've ever watched.

I'll go read the thread now.
Ok, I'll subscribe. I enjoyed both times I watched it (once with a friend, once with my wife).

[DigoDragon]

Tri ALL the guns!

Nice wordplay there. :smallbiggrin:

[Sean Mirrsen]

b) It's the relationship between 'lock up' and 'leave big guy on the deck' that's unclear. But hey, NBD.

It's actually a blink-and-you'll-miss-it affair. Rewatch that scene, and look VERY closely at what Vash's hands do from the moment he jumps up to avoid the boomerang, to the moment he lands on the ground behind the big guy.

He unhooks the belt from the boomerang (the belt you explicitly see the big guy hook onto the thing before each throw) in the instant he double-jumps off the boomerang in flight, and hook the free end onto one of the bolts on the big guy's robot arm when he lands on him, resulting in the guy's left arm being hooked to a springloaded reel on his right side, and when he pushes the release bolt the reel pulls the guy's arm across his body.

[Math_Mage]

It's actually a blink-and-you'll-miss-it affair. Rewatch that scene, and look VERY closely at what Vash's hands do from the moment he jumps up to avoid the boomerang, to the moment he lands on the ground behind the big guy.

He unhooks the belt from the boomerang (the belt you explicitly see the big guy hook onto the thing before each throw) in the instant he double-jumps off the boomerang in flight, and hook the free end onto one of the bolts on the big guy's robot arm when he lands on him, resulting in the guy's left arm being hooked to a springloaded reel on his right side, and when he pushes the release bolt the reel pulls the guy's arm across his body.
Ah, I see.

And then I rewatched the other scene I was confused about, and...he grabbed the bullet? And threw it? Um. That's pretty badass. It also has Implications.

[Durkoala]

Something that people might find interesting (if they hadn't already noticed) is that Vash's gun fires from the bottom cylinder instead of the customary top one, a very rare design choice in real life.

Well, given that the sights were off by a few feet, it's fair to say that Knives didn't know much about how to build a normal gun. :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

Well, given that the sights were off by a few feet, it's fair to say that Knives didn't know much about how to build a normal gun. :smalltongue:

This is actually a PRETTY big spoiler, I'd change the spoiler title to reflect that.

[Durkoala]

Can you remember which episode it was? I don't think it's quite big enough to wait through the entire series.

[LaZodiac]

Can you remember which episode it was? I don't think it's quite big enough to wait through the entire series.

I don't remember the episode, but any mention of Knives is, to me at least, a MASSIVE spoiler. Sorry for over reacting :smalltongue:

[Durkoala]

I've edited the tag as best I can. Math_Mage, don't open it.
LaZodiac, you're completely right.
Keeping the tone shift for the latter half of the series hidden is going to be difficult.
That's a weird thing to put on a spoiler, but it's an event I remember that won't be missed easily.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Best spoiler title ever. :smallbiggrin:

[danzibr]

[CENTER][SIZE=5]Episode 1:
you'd think he'd carry some scars from having all that death following him around

Hoo boy, just wait.
After not watching Trigun for probably 10 years, one of the things I remember most.

[TheThan]

Its possible the gun’s sights just got misaligned from years of wear and tear. The gunsmith from episode 2... or was it 3... did say it was in pretty bad shape and overhauled it completely for him.

[Dragonus45]

Something that people might find interesting (if they hadn't already noticed) is that Vash's gun fires from the bottom cylinder instead of the customary top one, a very rare design choice in real life.

For anyone else who noticed this and is curious about why a gun would have that as an option I present to you this cool video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCJo0O5aPSA) that talks about it.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 2:
Truth of Mistake
http://i.imgur.com/i4hvgA1.png

Head-rocking intro music, away!
Oh, the other gun in the intro is black. So it's not just the glove.
And we open with Vash getting shot? Really? After everything that happened last episode, it's this schmuck that makes him bleed? Man...
And we're out of water.
And there's Vash. Oh, maybe this old fellow's not a schmuck, and his name's Cliff Cesar. So, the opening was at a different time, or with another Vash impersonator...?
"Bodygard"..."Vash the Stanpeat"..."3 mears with nap"...um. Guess he is a schmuck. And oblivious, too. He just happens to be oblivious in the right direction.
Oh, so now we know why Vash is sticking around, and its name is Marianne. Is he playing both sides to get this job?
The old man keeps going back and forth. Not a total schmuck, but hiring someone who fits the description of his enemy is still pretty schmuck-y.
And Marianne's a player too? Huh.
Okay, yada yada, big business evil guy and the villain's beautiful rebellious daughter (friend's daughter?)...
...Who was the Vash impersonator. All right.
Yes, Vash is a stupid idiot.
This dialogue is making me cringe. Exposition recap followed by Vash being stupid.
That is a really dumb trigger for a secret entrance. It's designed to be pulled on!
Boring villain has boring plans that don't make sense. I don't know why Marianne has a crossbow-gun-thing, but it doesn't do her much good if she doesn't, y'know, carry it ready to fire.
Okay, Vash has reflexes. Still not sure if being silly is an act or the real thing.
Villain exposits hero's ability. Lame.
Ice shards don't wound, guns cause electrical shocks, bullets don't make holes. Uh, okay.
I don't think water works like that.
Lame dialogue is lame.
Oh, right, that's where the cat was. I keep forgetting.

No plot advancement; it's plot-of-the-week. C-level stock plot-of-the-week, at that. No character advancement, except for Vash being fast, which we pretty much had figured from last episode. No setting advancement, and so far Trigun is one of the least interesting settings I've seen. Well, at least we know Vash knows he's getting blamed for stuff--I was half wondering if he had memory problems. I guess that could still be the case. But this was just a filler episode, unless Marianne turns up later for good reason. My rating: soggy cereal / breakfast foods.

[LaZodiac]

Okay full disclosure, although it's important to watch them to sort of "set up" the series, the first four or five (I forget which, but you'll know which in the future) are kind of side stories made to build up to how the series proper starts.

So like...yeah. It's filler, but it's an alright kind of filler, and it exists so that when the plot actually starts it never stops. Although I for one quite liked this episode, personally.

[Math_Mage]

I'm willing to wait for the series to start happening, since I'm committed to the LW. (Maybe doing one would help for Utena, which I quit 5 episodes in; that should give you an idea of what an impatient SOB I am.)

[LaZodiac]

I'm willing to wait for the series to start happening, since I'm committed to the LW. (Maybe doing one would help for Utena, which I quit 5 episodes in; that should give you an idea of what an impatient SOB I am.)

Nothing wrong with that. Five in is a good baromiter, but I think it's always important to give things a chance.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This episode, yeah, it's mostly goofy, starry-eyed Vash. The next episode gives the series a bit of weight.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Okay full disclosure, although it's important to watch them to sort of "set up" the series, the first four or five (I forget which, but you'll know which in the future) are kind of side stories made to build up to how the series proper starts.

So like...yeah. It's filler, but it's an alright kind of filler, and it exists so that when the plot actually starts it never stops. Although I for one quite liked this episode, personally.

It also establishes a baseline in the relationship between Vash and the Insurance girls, along with a baseline for Vash himself, the things that happen later would not have as much of Impact if we did not see this stuff.

[Math_Mage]

It also establishes a baseline in the relationship between Vash and the Insurance girls, along with a baseline for Vash himself, the things that happen later would not have as much of Impact if we did not see this stuff.
Using the early episodes to set up the status quo is legitimate storytelling. But to me, this is a rather flat job of it so far. Mostly it's two things: a boring setting, and sidekicks that don't do anything or have any goals apart from watching the main character do his thing.

(Side note: why do all the girls' names start with M?)

New episode up sometime today/night.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 3:
Peace Maker
http://i.imgur.com/McHcWOR.png

Okay, so apparently "today/night" means "tomorrow night." Well, my dad had a birthday, so that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Now, to the episode.

Intro music has me prepped for BADASS THINGS HAPPENING. Let's see it. Hey, is that a lightbulb?
"Is he, isn't he"...they better have a good payoff for the waffling.
Drunk guy is drunk at Vash, but is up to something.
The weapon episode! One can hope. They usually bring character depth.
Cat in mayor's office! First time I've spotted it on the first playthrough. And it vocalized! My evening is complete.
Time for another lame villain, so we see how well-armed the town is. Also, "4,000 yars"? Is a yar a unit of distance?
They're going to...have Vash attack the armored car? That didn't make any sense.
Oh, hey, double serving of cat!
So what's Vash carrying in the case, anyway?
"People only drown themselves in alcohol when they have something they wanna forget." Thanks, Meryl.
I guess we'll find out why Frank thinks happiness is zero-sum, even though it isn't.
Aaaaand that's why. Well, that sucks. (And his last name is spelled 'Marlon', which I wasn't expecting.)
So, their grand master plan was to imitate Vash because they heard the real Vash was around? Isn't that, like, the opposite of the logical thing to do? No wonder I didn't get what they were going to do.
So why the hell does Millie carry that giant gun around, again?
"Except...that the situation is not equal." I, uh, I get why they had him say that, but it didn't make any sense.
When someone grabs your gun, squeeze the trigger finger! This isn't complicated, Random Mook #5! Boot knife was pretty cool, though.
Okay, okay, standoff with no gun, this makes a point to Frank, yada yada...
Oh, NOW she gets out the gun? Criminy.
They just let the robbers run off? Uh, okay. Well, maybe they'll die of thirst in the desert, like Millie and Meryl were going to. Hey, if the nearest town is 4,000 yars away, how did Vash and Meryl and Millie get there? How long has it been since the last episode?
More waffling. But I bet the silly-sounding goal was genuine.
"The past enslaves." Clearly a hint about Vash, too.


Well, I cared more about Frank than I did about any of the other characters up to now. I can't help feeling this story was told better in Rurouni Kenshin, though. My Internet's about to cut off for the night, but I'll have more comments tomorrow.

Oh, my Internet's not cutting out after all, so let's chat. First, I should have gotten the plot much sooner from the name of the episode. That's a classic term. I can appreciate how Nightow is distilling plots down to their bare essence. This is Frank's story, and I like Frank. He did good, was disillusioned by ironic tragedy, and needed the events of the episode to rekindle his faith in life. Vash needs to get involved because his name's involved (otherwise the townspeople would just shoot the robbers), and he wants to get involved as part of throwing off the shadow of his own past--and he gets a fixed gun out of the deal (not that he's been shooting it much). Clean, straightforward.

And that's really all there is in the episode. The villains were one-off idiots with no style. Meryl and Millie continue to have no purpose except waffling about Vash. The setting still doesn't have anything going for it. Rurouni Kenshin really is a good comparison--notorious badass with a past and a goofy personality goes about doing good in order to atone. But RK's world is far richer and the supporting characters actually support the narrative, even before we get to villains who are as cool as the hero (the first couple RK villains are boring). There's a sense of depth that Trigun is simply missing. Or we can take Cowboy Bebop, which I've only watched part of, and which has the same episodic pacing as Trigun to start--but Jet beats hell out of M&M, and space Western beats hell out of plain old Western, and I liked Spike without needing to worry about his mysterious past, whereas Vash is pretty boring without the lure of finding out why a notorious badass acts like such a clown.

Hm. Trigun was originally a manga, like RK. I opened the first page of the first chapter of the manga and got what I assume was a pretty large spoiler directly in the face. Serves me right. But yeah, when I'm done with the anime I'm definitely going back through the manga to see how they compare.

Rating: cheese pizza at a kid's birthday party.

[Sean Mirrsen]

When someone grabs your gun, squeeze the trigger finger! This isn't complicated, Random Mook #5! Boot knife was pretty cool, though.

This one took me a little while to understand, but you might notice how he grabs the gun. Not by the barrel or by the shooter's hand, but across the body. The gun's a revolver. He grabs the revolver drum and keeps it from turning so the gun can't shoot.

[Math_Mage]

This one took me a little while to understand, but you might notice how he grabs the gun. Not by the barrel or by the shooter's hand, but across the body. The gun's a revolver. He grabs the revolver drum and keeps it from turning so the gun can't shoot.
Oh. Got me there.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Oh. Got me there.

These early episodes subtly build up the notion that Vash is really the sort of unstoppable super-gunman that he's rumored to be, through these little hard-to-spot displays of skill. It's really well executed in this regard, and the attention to the minute details that give it away makes these early episodes quite interesting to watch for me.

[Math_Mage]

I agree that keeping the skill subtle is a nice touch. I just feel the way I did during season 1 of RWBY--I know the show has interesting stuff to show me, but it can't get out of hint-dropping mode, and the plots it's using as a screen for its hints don't hold up.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Using the early episodes to set up the status quo is legitimate storytelling. But to me, this is a rather flat job of it so far. Mostly it's two things: a boring setting, and sidekicks that don't do anything or have any goals apart from watching the main character do his thing.

(Side note: why do all the girls' names start with M?)

New episode up sometime today/night.

Sorry for being late on this, seven days in a row of work is rough on the posting habits.

The Sidekicks have the goal of finding Vash the Stampede, so that they can prevent the disasters that he causes when he fights because the insurance company they work for was going broke from paying out insurance. Meryl just does not actually buy that Vash is actually Vash. Which is somewhat understandable considering the reputation Vash supposedly has vs the personality this goofball shows.

[LaZodiac]

Yars are a measure of distance, yeah. The other measure of distance is Iles. I tend to just assume Yards and Miles.

What was the spoiler that looking at the first page of the manga gave? Because I should ALSO note, the first couple of episodes of the anime are not manga canon, while the first episode of the series that gets really "srs bissness" is the first chapter of the manga, and they follow each other for a bit before the anime catches up and goes off the rails (but in a way that is still on the correct plot pathline, unlike Full Metal Alchemist where suddenly alchemy is caused by World War 2 fighting in our world).

[CarpeGuitarrem]

What was the spoiler that looking at the first page of the manga gave?
The manga opens with a flash-forward to the destruction of July, and calls it out as such. It doesn't explain how it was destroyed, just that Vash was involved.

So yeah. It does give future plot events, but it's deliberately told in a style of "you have no idea what's going on here, but we'll get back to this".

[Math_Mage]

Sorry for being late on this, seven days in a row of work is rough on the posting habits.

The Sidekicks have the goal of finding Vash the Stampede, so that they can prevent the disasters that he causes when he fights because the insurance company they work for was going broke from paying out insurance. Meryl just does not actually buy that Vash is actually Vash. Which is somewhat understandable considering the reputation Vash supposedly has vs the personality this goofball shows.
Well, that's what I mean. Their goal is, so far as I can tell, to watch Vash. Maybe once they resolve the waffling they'll be roped into preventing all the harm that's done in his name, and then they'll get characters and stories and motives and depth, but right now it's just dragging.

It does help to know that this is mostly anime-original material. That means I do have changes to look forward to.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Well, for the moment, they're just insurance agents in charge of cataloging Vash for insurance purposes. They are literally agents of the bureaucracy. :smallbiggrin: But they will definitely step up in the future and do stuff.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 4:
Love and Peace
http://i.imgur.com/lPA1Kot.png

That catch halfway through the opening throws me every time.
I should have commented on this before, but the constant anachronisms are a clue to post-apocalypse. I guess that spices up the setting some, contrary to my earlier downer attitude.
That graveyard...wait, is he chewing gum?!
Man, they take their poker seriously.
The Earl is pretty skinny for a fattened former thug.
Aaaand our agent is in. With the gum.
Grumble grumble mumble at least this time M&M have a good excuse for not doing anything...
Oh, come ON. When I said "with the gum," I didn't mean it like that.
Sheriff's the bad guy, fine. Our lead robber's going to be all noble-like and probably get shot for his trouble.
The womanizing stuff doesn't just get on the other characters' nerves...
How does the news about Vash track him so closely if no one realizes he's Vash?
"I'll go." Man, that guy knows he's gonna die.
The second guy, on the other hand, is an idiot.
Oh hey, cat!
Awww, Vash almost got serious. Millie finally does something, and I'm annoyed about it.
So, you aren't gonna run away--instead, you'll honorably take a hostage and demand a getaway car. Sure, bro.
Yes, Vash, we know you have your own graveyards and troubled past and so on. Inb4 third option where sheriff does something villainous.
*sigh* On the one hand, I'm grateful that M&M are finally competent. On the other hand, now I have to wonder why they didn't do anything before. Grumble mumble.
"This world is made of love and peace!" Well, that came out of nowhere. 'Sides, Vash, you been paying attention to the world lately?


I want to get through these episode faster now so I can get to the good stuff.

We've been through "play two factions off of each other," "rich desert guy wants to monopolize the liquid in the ground," "weapon master sees weapons used for evil," and now "victims' kids struggle with revenge against villain-turned-citizen, with convenient punching-bag Starscream to resolve all ambiguity." We're running out of stock stories--pretty soon they'll have to move forward with the real narrative.

I'm less annoyed at M&M and the setting than I was. I'd rather have M&M break consistency with previous episodes than continue being useless characters, and that there's more to the setting is now obvious enough that I'm willing to wait on it.

I'm not sure I like stock morality Vash better than happy-go-lucky idiot Vash. But really, it's all just "We're not ready to tell you about Vash yet" Vash, so I don't know why I complain.

Rating: Windows loading icon.

[LaZodiac]

Good news next episode is the first manga based story and also the beginning of things getting Actually Serious. Plots starting, get on the hype train.

[Gettles]

Good news next episode is the first manga based story and also the beginning of things getting Actually Serious. Plots starting, get on the hype train.

I was looking at the episode list and good God does it take a while for things to get started.



I mean it takes for episode 9 for Wolfwood to finally show up and Lagato and the Gung-Ho Guns(and by proxy the main plot) doesn't happen till episode 11

[Brother Oni]

I was looking at the episode list and good God does it take a while for things to get started.



I mean it takes for episode 9 for Wolfwood to finally show up and Lagato and the Gung-Ho Guns(and by proxy the main plot) doesn't happen till episode 11

Which is why the mood whiplash about that time is so effective. We've been setup to believe it's a fairly happy go lucky anime, although with slight hints of darkness and troubled past but not to the extremes that Trigun goes to.

Arguably if we weren't expecting Vash to be so ridiculously pacifistic, Legato's suicide would be a 'jumping the shark' moment - most reasonable people wouldn't have trouble sleeping after putting a round through Legato's head, but Vash isn't a reasonable person though.

[Waddacku]

Sorry for being late on this, seven days in a row of work is rough on the posting habits.

The Sidekicks have the goal of finding Vash the Stampede, so that they can prevent the disasters that he causes when he fights because the insurance company they work for was going broke from paying out insurance. Meryl just does not actually buy that Vash is actually Vash. Which is somewhat understandable considering the reputation Vash supposedly has vs the personality this goofball shows.

Apparently I'm misremembering when what is stated.
Not quite, they're there to find out if Vash was involved, because the company classifies him as an act of God. If he caused something, they won't pay.

[ryuplaneswalker]

Not quite, they're there to find out if Vash was involved, because the company classifies him as an act of God. If he caused something, they won't pay.

That part comes later.

[Sean Mirrsen]

That part comes later.

Which makes it a spoiler, as well.

[DigoDragon]

Good news next episode is the first manga based story and also the beginning of things getting Actually Serious.

On subsequent viewings of this series, I tend to skip through the first four episodes quickly.

[Reverent-One]

"This world is made of love and peace!" Well, that came out of nowhere. 'Sides, Vash, you been paying attention to the world lately?

You think Vash is the sort to not be incredibly optimistic about the state of the world? :smalltongue: To refer back to your comments on the first episode:


mutter mutter miraculous pacifist warrior cliche mutter mutter

I personally am largely alright with the first few episodes, the humor works out for me (I enjoy fake incompentent vash) and it establishes the characters well enough IMO. That's not to say it doesn't get better though, especially in regards to the fleshing out of the setting you've commented on.

[Fjolnir]

July is Lost before the series starts, it's the 5th moon disaster that happens during the series; it's not a flash-forward, it's a flashback and it shows how he got his $$60,000,000,000 bounty

[CarpeGuitarrem]

July is Lost before the series starts, it's the 5th moon disaster that happens during the series; it's not a flash-forward, it's a flashback and it shows how he got his $$60,000,000,000 bounty
So mostly it's a massive puzzle for the reader. "How did he level a town like that?"

[Fjolnir]

Especially since you find out in episode 6 that he levels the city with no deaths...

[LaZodiac]

All this talk of cities reminds me. Starting now, every city is named after a month! Collect em all!

[Math_Mage]

Episode 5:
Hard Puncher
http://i.imgur.com/2dEIQDQ.png

I couldn't not use that image, even though it's maybe not the most representative of this episode.
This'll be the first episode I watch subbed.
Ohey, new opening credit villains!
mutter mutter miraculous pacifist warrior cliche mutter mutter...but hey, badass. Too bad he can't catch a break.
I see the lightbulb-thing from the opening in the distance...only it's huge. What does a plant have to do with sand covering half the town? Also, who exactly provides all this preternaturally accurate information on Vash's whereabouts? Given the number of pretenders, you'd think there'd be a fair bit of noise.
Kitty!
Now I'm curious if 'Maman' is how it's said in the dub.
Does Meryl finally have her own reasons for looking for Vash? Man, things really are looking up quality-wise.
Double kitty!
'Support system bug'. Hello, computers. Where have you been?
dafuq is a Gofsef
Okay, now we're getting themey. Vash perversely carries the burden of refusing other people's dreams, on top of the collateral damage issue I brought up in e1. And there's even a "him". Happy face. But, these people don't have the skill to force him to kill them, so he's being needlessly maudlin about it. Sad face.
Haven't we seen this weapon before? Oh, it's probably rocket-powered or something. Hello, Blitzcrank.
Let's see, do I remember Vash having super strength? I guess I don't.
This guy talks some ****, considering his precious son hasn't hit his target once yet.
Okay, I have to finally accept that nobody died from the collapsing of the saloon. Not sure why I assumed that about a series like this. I guess I thought rocks were heavy.
I guess this phrase is going to continue being a thing.
But I don't care, because three kitties~!


The group I'm watching this series with is discussing episodes in batches of four, which is unfortunate, because this is clearly a five-episode group.

Anyway, we're done waffling, which makes me happy. We have SETTING (plants) and THEMES (Vash as perverse vehicle for dreams) and MOTIVATION ("him" for Vash, and possibly Vash for Meryl). The themes-in-passing of episode 1 get developed.

One minor problem I have is that Vash is such a badass that I have trouble imagining a serious threat at a lesser scale than total AOE obliteration. Even if there's another equally badass gunman out there, you can't actually make the bullets move faster. This leads to moments like the one I mentioned where Vash's badassery actually undermines the narrative.

Still a rousing episode, though. Plus, kitties!

Rating: First solid contact with a golf ball in years.

[Kitten Champion]

One minor problem I have is that Vash is such a badass that I have trouble imagining a serious threat at a lesser scale than total AOE obliteration. Even if there's another equally badass gunman out there, you can't actually make the bullets move faster. This leads to moments like the one I mentioned where Vash's badassery actually undermines the narrative.


The thing is, Trigun isn't about whether Vash is strong enough to kill his enemies, he invariably is 99% of the time. A significant aspect to the character and the story in general is that the choice is always there.

[LaZodiac]

Well, do keep in mind that when you're fighting 100% passively, some things are unavoidable. Yeah, Vash is skilled enough to deal with a single person non fatally, maybe even two. But imagine what'd happen if he had to fight a relatively large group, all without the intent to kill them. You're GOING to get dinged up after awhile. I think you'll enjoy the next episode :smallamused:

...also, what Plants are will be explained. For now they're just giant lightbulbs that do things to keep the city from being over run with sand.

[DigoDragon]

...also, what Plants are will be explained. For now they're just giant lightbulbs that do things to keep the city from being over run with sand.

I've watched this series several times... and I still have questions about those plants.
Particularly about what the little pink critters inside the core are. I think Vash is supposed to be one?

[LaZodiac]

I've watched this series several times... and I still have questions about those plants.
Particularly about what the little pink critters inside the core are. I think Vash is supposed to be one?

Yes, that's exactly the case. They're implied to be legit angels that humanity just...somehow made a power system to use, in the manga, if I recall. I think the general idea though is that humanity created the power source, which also happened to create the Angel life forms.

[czieg]

I've watched Trigun twice and I don't really like the next few episodes.

I love to watch just the duel and how it is LOUD AND FLASHY!!!

[Math_Mage]

The thing is, Trigun isn't about whether Vash is strong enough to kill his enemies, he invariably is 99% of the time. A significant aspect to the character and the story in general is that the choice is always there.
But when Vash is also strong enough to resolve things without killing, as he was in the scene I called out as maudlin, then there's little reason to grapple with the choice to kill. I don't want him to be overmatched, but if the series is going to play off of threats to his life, I'd rather they be actual threats to his life.

[LaZodiac]

But when Vash is also strong enough to resolve things without killing, as he was in the scene I called out as maudlin, then there's little reason to grapple with the choice to kill. I don't want him to be overmatched, but if the series is going to play off of threats to his life, I'd rather they be actual threats to his life.

Without spoiling anything I can just say "they will be" and be done with it.

[DigoDragon]

Yes, that's exactly the case. They're implied to be legit angels that humanity just...somehow made a power system to use, in the manga, if I recall. I think the general idea though is that humanity created the power source, which also happened to create the Angel life forms.

Plants
Okay, so I seem to be on the same page this far. I guess that leaves questions on how humans created the angels and how the angels do their 'thing' in being a power system.

[LaZodiac]

Plants
Okay, so I seem to be on the same page this far. I guess that leaves questions on how humans created the angels and how the angels do their 'thing' in being a power system.

Think like The Matrix, essentially.

[Thufir]

So, partly inspired by this thread, I decided to rewatch Trigun myself, but this time the dub rather than the sub. Actually I kind of wish I could watch it dubbed and subbed at the same time, so I could see the discrepancies between them. But so far there hasn't been much where I definitely preferred the subtitle to the dubbed line.
The one thing that's bothering me though, is measuring distance in 'yars' and 'iles'. I always thought it was kind of stupid, but it seems so much more so now I'm hearing them said in english. They still measure a man's height in feet, they still measure time in hours and days, why did they need to shave letters off those two units specifically?

[DigoDragon]

why did they need to shave letters off those two units specifically?

I assumed they were trying to invent new slang or something. And failed.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I assumed they were trying to invent new slang or something. And failed.
Keep in mind that the original was in Japanese. A slightly-modified English distance unit (both English as in the language and as in the measurement system) probably seemed just fine for a weird futuristic unit of distance.

[DigoDragon]

Keep in mind that the original was in Japanese. A slightly-modified English distance unit (both English as in the language and as in the measurement system) probably seemed just fine for a weird futuristic unit of distance.

Dropping one consonant from the word seems kinda... I dunno, too easy? :smallsmile:
And like Thufir mentioned, most other units had their words intact. Not to say you are wrong. I just think there wasn't effort put into it if the case was to make futuristic units.

[LaZodiac]

The gravity extends the distance needed to move. Therefor, slighty different measurement.

[Brother Oni]

Keep in mind that the original was in Japanese. A slightly-modified English distance unit (both English as in the language and as in the measurement system) probably seemed just fine for a weird futuristic unit of distance.

Especially if it was a truncated English language unit written in katakana.

[Fjolnir]

not only are there legitimate threats to his life, there are also a great deal of casual mass murderers he ends up fighting

[Thufir]

The 'iles' thing is particularly bothersome because it sounds like they're saying 'aisles'. Suddenly rather than distances between cities, we're browsing a supermarket.

[Gnoman]

I didn't realize that they wern't saying "miles" and "yards" until the third or fourth time I watched the series.

[Feytalist]

I didn't realize that they wern't saying "miles" and "yards" until the third or fourth time I watched the series.

At first I honestly thought the double dollar thing was an amusing little typo. Then they kept on using it.

[Rodin]

So, partly inspired by this thread, I decided to rewatch Trigun myself, but this time the dub rather than the sub. Actually I kind of wish I could watch it dubbed and subbed at the same time, so I could see the discrepancies between them. But so far there hasn't been much where I definitely preferred the subtitle to the dubbed line.

The biggest difference I remember noticing is the relationship between Meryl and Millie. In the sub there's a definite "senpai" thing going on where Meryl is the boss and Millie is the subordinate. In the dub Meryl is still the leader but they feel a lot closer to colleagues. I prefer the dub for this very reason.

Edit:

Oooh, I forgot about one change, a spoilerrific one.

In the dub, when Rai-Dei the Blade meets Wolfwood after the moon incident he says "Who are you??"

In the sub, the actual line is "You!" Because they know each other.

My jaw dropped the first time I watched the subbed version.

[Math_Mage]

Episode 6:
Lost July
http://i.imgur.com/JHjzeiQ.png

3 episodes in, I'm glad I'm not doing a LW of Mushi-shi. You guys should be glad too. I would have no idea what to talk about.
The title reminds me of the spoiler from the manga, so I assume we're going to reference something apocalyptic in this episode.
Wow, Funimation, turn off the dubs past Episode 4, d**k move. Now I have to choose between going off-site or watching subs. (Or getting library discs like I did for Episode 1, but that would take planning.)
I guess a more discerning LW'er would have already commented on there being two suns in the sky.
Reminding everyone that Vash is Vash is...not the best way to prevent damage, even if it does give fair warning. In this town, it'll work because the townsfolk are tired of chasing Vash, but elsewhere?
Hey, mass transit!
Who is he pouring for?
Trash bin kitty!
"Wherever Vash goes, he always leaves trouble behind him!" And that lady is behind Vash, and not obviously in trouble. Ergo, that lady is trouble. (Did we even get her name?)
I won't need anyone to explain to me how Vash disabled the bodyguard! That's a first.
Hey, Vash already has a moniker. Vash the Messiah just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Cutting down on the blow-by-blow commentary a bit will hopefully let me take a more holistic perspective. We're beginning to define the mystery of the setting and the main character--as in, figure out just what is mysterious about them, without necessarily solving the mystery.

Lost July turns out to be apocalyptic amnesia for Vash. Close enough to what I guessed. Since that's the start of his criminal record blame train, uncovering that story will explain a lot about Vash. But it doesn't seem like Vash is driven by that event in itself. Instead, he's driven by the memory of another person. Maybe that person's responsible for Lost July, or Vash's amnesia, or the death/s of whoever Vash was pouring that bottle for. Maybe those are all the same incident. On the other hand, maybe that person isn't the villain...Ha! Who am I kidding, he's definitely the villain.

We admittedly didn't get a great look, but Vash doesn't look a day older than he did when Elizabeth (had to look the name up) was 3. He remembers an early childhood, but that might be a red herring, depending on how 'childhood' is defined. He has a connection to the power plants whose existence enable civilization. Plants whose tech belongs to a culture that's been lost for more than a century--a culture associated with Pandora's Box, and God. Is Vash, too, a leftover?

If so, all the more reason to be pissed that he's a womanizing airhead. I'm so tired of that, even if it did bite him in the butt this episode.

Side note: I didn't think to make sense of Episode 5's title, and now it doesn't make sense to me. Anyone have insights?

Rating: Spot of the Baskervilles.

[LaZodiac]

The giant mech dude from last episode had a rocket fist. He's a "Hard Puncher".

That aside, glad you enjoyed Lost July. Learning about the July incident is just the beginning of stripping away the layers of "just what the hell is up with Vash".

[DigoDragon]

The giant mech dude from last episode had a rocket fist. He's a "Hard Puncher".

I loved the slow-motion scene of Vash drawing his gun, and the reflections of the people appearing along the barrel. That was art.

[Thufir]

The biggest difference I remember noticing is the relationship between Meryl and Millie. In the sub there's a definite "senpai" thing going on where Meryl is the boss and Millie is the subordinate. In the dub Meryl is still the leader but they feel a lot closer to colleagues. I prefer the dub for this very reason.

I think that's more down to cultural differences than an actual decision on the part of the people doing the dub. In Japanese, you call your superior 'senpai' or whatever, whereas in English it'd be unnatural for Millie to constantly refer to Meryl as 'boss' or whatever.
That said, even in the sub with the hierarchy being pretty clear, Millie doesn't really act very subordinate anyway...


Oooh, I forgot about one change, a spoilerrific one.

In the dub, when Rai-Dei the Blade meets Wolfwood after the moon incident he says "Who are you??"

In the sub, the actual line is "You!" Because they know each other.

My jaw dropped the first time I watched the subbed version.

Yeah, that was kind of dumb by whoever did the script for the dub. There's another one in Hard Puncher, when that woman is asking Vash if he'll die for the good of the city: in the dub, he says "Until I see this man you're after," which is stupid, because the man she's after is him. He's not looking for himself. Whereas in the sub, it's "Until I see him," which is a very oblique hint at Vash's motivations, a non-specific male person he needs to see.

There are a few other odd lines in the dub that I don't like, but can easily ignore, especially since I watched the sub first and remember it pretty well. Unfortunately there's one voice I was never entirely happy with, and he happens to be my favourite character.
My favourite character is Wolfwood. I've never been entirely happy with his dub voice.
Chapel's voice in the dub sounds pretty much exactly how I expected Wolfwood to sound.

[Math_Mage]

The giant mech dude from last episode had a rocket fist. He's a "Hard Puncher".
Ah, right.


I think that's more down to cultural differences than an actual decision on the part of the people doing the dub. In Japanese, you call your superior 'senpai' or whatever, whereas in English it'd be unnatural for Millie to constantly refer to Meryl as 'boss' or whatever.
That said, even in the sub with the hierarchy being pretty clear, Millie doesn't really act very subordinate anyway...
Well, 'senpai' is not 'kaichou' or 'kumichou' or any of the other names for 'boss'. It's 'senior colleague' (without the connotation of advanced age) or 'colleague-mentor' (as opposed to the hierarchically superior 'sensei' for teachers/mentors/masters). Millie isn't expected to act all that subordinate to Meryl as a result of the senpai-kouhai relationship. That said, she tends to look to Meryl for direction, which is what I would expect.

And, huh. Good thing I watched sub for Episode 5, or I'd have missed that entirely. Without spoiling anything, have I missed anything else in any particular episodes by watching dub instead of sub?

[Fjolnir]

I don't know if it is an option where you are at but the full dub is on hulu...

[Math_Mage]

I don't know if it is an option where you are at but the full dub is on hulu...


I don't know if you failed to mention it because it was said in the spoilers but in Lost July, on both the sub and dub Vash blows up the city without killing any of the inhabitants...
Oh, right, I forgot that. Kinda overshadowed by the part where everyone died of not having civilization anymore. But as I recall, the method of destruction wasn't as specific as "blown up"--it was just "destroyed". Btw, three possibilities:
1) Vash did it.
2) "That man" did it.
3) Power plant explosions are weird and Vash was being more literal than I thought when he said Elizabeth would become like him if she let the plant blow. (Which doesn't preclude 1) or 2).)

[Fjolnir]

without going into spoilers too much I can say that Vash is responsible for destroying July, the third thing is referencing the blood on his hands both real and perceived...

[DigoDragon]

July Spoiler Potential
I forget, was it explained how July was evacuated so that no one died? I know Vash confronted his brother in the mayors office (now that I think about it, didn't Knives hill him?) and lost his arm in the shootout.

It's been too long since I watched that episode though.

[LaZodiac]

July Spoiler Potential
I forget, was it explained how July was evacuated so that no one died? I know Vash confronted his brother in the mayors office (now that I think about it, didn't Knives hill him?) and lost his arm in the shootout.

It's been too long since I watched that episode though.

No, the big explosion thing doesn't kill people. We saw it in June when they force it to happen again.

[DigoDragon]

No, the big explosion thing doesn't kill people. We saw it in June when they force it to happen again.

More Spoiling
So the explosion ignores organic targets? Weird.

[LaZodiac]

More Spoiling
So the explosion ignores organic targets? Weird.

The explosion is caused by something called an Angel Arm. It comes with the territory.

In less spoilerly news, I actually thought that the episode you're going to be watching next was the one you just watched. OOPS.

[Math_Mage]

without going into spoilers too much I can say that Vash is responsible for destroying July, the third thing is referencing the blood on his hands both real and perceived...
That's...kinda spoilery, considering the episode intentionally left that ambiguous with Vash's amnesia. Well, can't unspill the milk.

[DigoDragon]

The explosion is caused by something called an Angel Arm. It comes with the territory.

In less spoilerly news, I actually thought that the episode you're going to be watching next was the one you just watched. OOPS.

Spoilers of End Type
Right, I remember the angel arms as the guns Knives made for himself and his brother way back when they were wandering together (disguising them as the revolvers when not active was a nice touch). I remember the angel arms being essentially 'BFGs', and Knives even mentioned they weren't all that efficient despite the comparatively atomic-scale of their destructive capability.

I just don't remember a specific mention that the explosive firepower didn't hurt any of the residents from July (or more to the point why it didn't hurt anyone considering the power of the arms).
(Knives on the other hand, heh heh)

[Fjolnir]

Essentially the angel arms channel the full power of their nature as plants into a single energy blast; I assume it was Vash's will to not kill humans that prevented deaths from the July event (the chaos afterward, otoh) Remember the plants are essentially a literal deus ex machina at work...

[DigoDragon]

Essentially the angel arms channel the full power of their nature as plants into a single energy blast; I assume it was Vash's will to not kill humans that prevented deaths from the July event (the chaos afterward, otoh) Remember the plants are essentially a literal deus ex machina at work...

The End
Guess that'll have to do for an explanation. Ok, no more questions on that from me. :)

[Lord Vukodlak]

That's...kinda spoilery, considering the episode intentionally left that ambiguous with Vash's amnesia. Well, can't unspill the milk.

You could say he's responsible... but you could also say he wasn't responsible. Does that unspill the milk for you?

[Brewdude]

Yeah, in classroom drama anime (which is common as dirt in anime), Sempai gets used to refer to upperclassmen. So yeah, it's sort of "person of equal rank who has been in the organization longer than me".

[Math_Mage]

Also in real life. :smalltongue:


You could say he's responsible... but you could also say he wasn't responsible. Does that unspill the milk for you?
Given that, I'll settle for 'he's involved' as sufficiently un-spoilery.

[Velaryon]

Well Math_Mage's Let's Watch has been an enjoyable read so far for me so far. I only watched the show about 2 1/2 years ago but it's still not totally fresh in my mind. Some things are coming back to me as I read along, but so far you haven't gotten to the part where the show really started to pick up for me. At this point when I was watching, I wasn't super into it yet. I will be interested to see how you like the next few episodes.

[Math_Mage]

Well Math_Mage's Let's Watch has been an enjoyable read so far for me so far. I only watched the show about 2 1/2 years ago but it's still not totally fresh in my mind. Some things are coming back to me as I read along, but so far you haven't gotten to the part where the show really started to pick up for me. At this point when I was watching, I wasn't super into it yet. I will be interested to see how you like the next few episodes.
Considering other posts, I figure there's another running character I'm supposed to meet and fall in love with. Which is awkward, because I'm only just getting past the "You're a womanizing idiot and I hate you!" phase of my tsundere relationship with Vash.

(Speaking of which, I'm giving less than even odds on Vash getting romantic with anyone in the show, and I like it that way.)

Good to know people are enjoying this.

[Reverent-One]

Good to know people are enjoying this.

I'm enjoying it, and it's prompted me to start re-watching it again with you, which is another plus.

[Velaryon]

Considering other posts, I figure there's another running character I'm supposed to meet and fall in love with. Which is awkward, because I'm only just getting past the "You're a womanizing idiot and I hate you!" phase of my tsundere relationship with Vash.

(Speaking of which, I'm giving less than even odds on Vash getting romantic with anyone in the show, and I like it that way.)

Good to know people are enjoying this.

I am curious to see whether you will fall in love with said character... if there is such a character at all, of course. :smallwink:

Personally, I never cared much for either Meryl or Millie. They irritated me less later on, but that's less to do with an improvement in their characters and more to a change in the dynamics between characters as the show goes on. I'm very curious to see what you make of things as you reach the parts of the show that I like better.

If I had the time right now, I would love to watch the show again along with you to see how I like it a second time through. Sadly, life and grad school have other ideas right now...

[Math_Mage]

I watched episodes 7 and 8 together because I needed 45 minutes of media to liven up my exercise biking, but that means I wasn't taking notes while I was watching. I'll have a post up about it sometime tonight/tomorrow.

[Math_Mage]

...Or not. Seriously, I should be all over this, but I'm not.

Well, I saw the Badlands movie in the meantime, how about I review that instead?


Interlude:
Badlands Rumble
http://i.imgur.com/wEJngoZ.jpg

This movie was like an episode of the show, taken to 11. I chose the title image because that was how the movie felt to me--a gleeful romp in the Vash universe that wasn't trying to be anything more than good fun (which it succeeded at being). Unsurprising--this isn't Firefly or Rurouni Kenshin, where the show quit without an ending and needed a movie to provide closure. (When I talk about the Rurouni Kenshin movie, I am of course talking about the fantastic Tsuiokuhen and not the nauseating turd sandwich that was Seishouhen.) Wolfwood is the only really novel aspect of the movie for someone 8 episodes in. Even Vash's effective agelessness is pretty much a given after episode 6--honestly, I was surprised to find out in episode 8 that he could actually bleed.

So let's talk Wolfwood for a bit. This guy clearly operates on Vash's wavelength, in a way nobody else in the show does. Wolfwood understands whatever it is about the setting and the show's philosophy that leads Vash to behave the way he does, even if he's far more mercenary than Vash, which is odd for a priest (by the way, with priests come religious symbolism, and there was enough of that to go around). He even has the same sort of "obvious hidden depths" intro in the movie that Vash gets in the show. But, he doesn't understand Vash well enough to know that the sand pit isn't fatal. It was M&M that fished Vash out. Do they know more about Vash than Wolfwood? Hm. Anyway, the interaction in the movie makes Wolfwood seem like a philosophical counterpoint and a rival to Vash. It'll be interesting to see how he develops in the show--the episode title 'Murder Machine' makes his starting point pretty clear, unless I'm being misled.

Oh, and neat gun/missile launcher/cross shield...thing.

We got to see pretty much all sides of Vash that were shown in the first 6 episodes. There was Lovable Idiot/Miraculous Pacifist Vash; Womanizing Idiot Vash (which I still hate); Philosophical Vash; Tragic Vash; and Setting-Significant Vash. I'm sure we could name a few more if we put our heads together. The fact that we can put so many faces on one character without losing track of the character's core identity is impressive. I just wish there was one fewer face. In addition, both the challenge to and the convenient validation of Vash's "first, prevent present harm" philosophy feel forced, but the fact that Vash has to grapple with this philosophy is already a huge plus.

M&M had a bit more presence in the movie than I'm used to, even if it was mostly just the one scene. The best scenes in the movie were undoubtedly when the writers exploited knowledge gaps for humorous or dramatic purposes. The bar scene with Meryl and Vash bickering while Amelia looks on in bemusement, the scenes with Vash and Wolfwood and Gasback, Vash and Wolfwood and Amelia...with one notable exception, which I'll get to shortly, those scenes impressed upon me feelings of depth and continuity that have so often taken a back seat in the show proper thus far.

Vash is frequently an intruder on others' stories, and the movie is no exception. This plot and its characters felt rather messy and distracting. Gasback conveys this rather unpalatable notion that a noble villain with an awesome weapon who takes pride in his work is more heroic than a mean small-minded villain like Caine (nice obviously symbolic name there, by the way). He has to exist for the sake of Vash's/Amelia's "roll of the dice" theme, but I don't have to like it--though I do admit, it is a nice weapon. Caine and the other two sub-villains were complete nonentities; I simply didn't care about scenes where they were on screen. Amelia is a decent character crammed into an awkward plot; I appreciated her seriousness, her drive, her straight-man complement with Vash (as long as Vash wasn't fail-flirting), and the arc of her growth through interacting with Vash, but her daughter revelation and the electric gauntlet both felt contrived and unsatisfying. (Also, I was curious as to how the electricity would affect Vash.) The power plant theft just felt stupid--they've been built up as miraculous-but-fragile lost technology, and we're just going to roll one out of town through Caine's statue without damaging anything? Bleh. There was enough plot to convey the themes and the emotions, though. I suppose that's what counts.

The animation quality was, of course, very high. That's the difference between a TV show budget and a movie budget. Everything flowed smoothly, there was more detail work, there was more on-screen activity--very satisfying to watch. Unfortunately, I watched this movie while at a very loud dinner gathering of middle-aged Chinese people, friends of the family, so it's difficult to comment on the soundtrack--but I've never found the Trigun soundtrack to be all that distinctive anyway. It's functional, it's unobtrusive, but it's not memorable.

In the end, 'quintessential Vash' just about sums it up. My rating: Trigun. Yeah, figure that one out. :smalltongue:

[Eldan]

You should probably have waited for the series to introduce Wolfwood first.

[Math_Mage]

You should probably have waited for the series to introduce Wolfwood first.
Woulda coulda shoulda, but I didn't want to socialize anymore and this let me be plausibly engaged. Anyway, the stuff they spoil about Wolfwood in the movie is mostly the sort of stuff I wouldn't have cared too much about in the show. I'm still pretty vague on Wolfwood as a character.

[Dragonus45]

Also I feel you'r to hard on womanizer Vash, the comedic value of him failing with every woman he meets infinite.

[Feytalist]

Woulda coulda shoulda, but I didn't want to socialize anymore and this let me be plausibly engaged. Anyway, the stuff they spoil about Wolfwood in the movie is mostly the sort of stuff I wouldn't have cared too much about in the show. I'm still pretty vague on Wolfwood as a character.

You're going to miss out on a couple of nice "what the hell is he dragging that thing around for" moments, but yeah, he only really comes into his own a ways into the story.

[Brother Oni]

Unfortunately, I watched this movie while at a very loud dinner gathering of middle-aged Chinese people, friends of the family, so it's difficult to comment on the soundtrack--but I've never found the Trigun soundtrack to be all that distinctive anyway. It's functional, it's unobtrusive, but it's not memorable.

It could be worse - they could have been playing majong, in which case you wouldn't be able to tell between gunfire on the screen and the clack of tiles. :smallbiggrin:

[DigoDragon]

It could be worse - they could have been playing majong, in which case you wouldn't be able to tell between gunfire on the screen and the clack of tiles. :smallbiggrin:

True, they do seem to have similar rates of fire. :3

[LaZodiac]

I haven't actually seen the movie, good to see it's good! And glad you liked it...also glad you're back.

[J-H]

I always thought that the cover coming off of Wolfwood's cross was one of the best/coolest reveals in the series. Sorry it got spoiled for you.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Huh! That's rather interesting timing on watching the movie. Sure, you see some Wolfwood stuff early, but in terms of the tone, it's very similar to where you currently are in the series.

[Math_Mage]

Also I feel you'r to hard on womanizer Vash, the comedic value of him failing with every woman he meets infinite.
Oh, I agree! I just flip the sign. :smallyuk: There might be some personal reasons for why I feel the way I do, I haven't dug into it much, but when characters become idiots because cross-gender relationships are involved, I flip my ****. This is why I despise most romance subplots.


You're going to miss out on a couple of nice "what the hell is he dragging that thing around for" moments, but yeah, he only really comes into his own a ways into the story.

I always thought that the cover coming off of Wolfwood's cross was one of the best/coolest reveals in the series. Sorry it got spoiled for you.
Now is probably the time to mention that, thanks to Youtube displaying preview images for each episode, some 'iconic image' reveals probably won't be. For example, a certain crossed-gun scene from the opening...not that I know what's going on, but I know when that scene happens and I know something about what the other party in that encounter looks like.


Huh! That's rather interesting timing on watching the movie. Sure, you see some Wolfwood stuff early, but in terms of the tone, it's very similar to where you currently are in the series.
Yes, I think so too. I wonder if there's a website somewhere recommending when you should watch TV show tie-in movies for best impact.

[Reverent-One]

Now is probably the time to mention that, thanks to Youtube displaying preview images for each episode, some 'iconic image' reveals probably won't be. For example, a certain crossed-gun scene from the opening...not that I know what's going on, but I know when that scene happens and I know something about what the other party in that encounter looks like.

Ah, I see. The cross punisher reveal was about the only notable reason I'd really say to hold off on this episode, so no major loss. I'm curious, did you watch the sub or the dub?

[Feytalist]

Now is probably the time to mention that, thanks to Youtube displaying preview images for each episode, some 'iconic image' reveals probably won't be. For example, a certain crossed-gun scene from the opening...not that I know what's going on, but I know when that scene happens and I know something about what the other party in that encounter looks like.

Bleh.

Youtube: ruining everything since 2005.

[Math_Mage]

Ah, I see. The cross punisher reveal was about the only notable reason I'd really say to hold off on this episode, so no major loss. I'm curious, did you watch the sub or the dub?
Sub. If I couldn't hear the soundtrack over dinner conversation, dialogue was right out. The Japanese voices are really growing on me.

[DigoDragon]

I always thought that the cover coming off of Wolfwood's cross was one of the best/coolest reveals in the series. Sorry it got spoiled for you.

Yeah, that was one of the best moments.

[LaZodiac]

It'll still be awesome. He's just realized the giant cross is a gun, that's all. Not impossible to have happen.

[J-H]

LaZodiac, you may want to spoiler that.

[LaZodiac]

LaZodiac, you may want to spoiler that.

Noted and edited but I'll also say that he DID literally just say he saw Badlands Rumble, which I'm pretty sure features what I said.

[J-H]

Yes, but that doesn't mean he's seen all the functions of it. The most dramatic is also the one that's used least late-show - when he opens it up and pulls out a half dozen pistols.

[J-H]

Do you plan to continue this series?

Making me want to re-watch it with my wife (it'll be my 3rd time and her 2nd).

[Math_Mage]

Do you plan to continue this series?

Making me want to re-watch it with my wife (it'll be my 3rd time and her 2nd).
Yes, I will. I just really don't want to write up episodes 7-8 for some reason. I've distracted myself by watching Angel Beats for the first time, playing vidya games for the first time in months, and even getting some actual work done. I should be able to do it tonight, though.

EDIT: By which, of course, I mean tomorrow night, because I really need a good night's sleep to break the cycle of unproductivity. :smallyuk:

[Velaryon]

I know the feeling. You want to keep a chronicle, especially since you already committed to doing it, but when it comes time to get that one writeup done that you've been putting off for awhile, it just seems like such a chore...

Anyway, I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how you like Wolfwood as you get to see more of him. He's my favorite character in the show.

[Math_Mage]

You know what, f*** it. I just want to move forward, even if it means doing a junk job on some episodes.


Episode 7: BDN
Episode 8: And Between The Wasteland And Sky
http://i.imgur.com/62CIa8G.png

Vash got hurt! That's new.
Vash hands out lost tech to kids. I think it was a walkie-talkie equivalent. I suppose it's fodder for idle speculation about the tech level of pre-apocalypse civilization.
Well, now I know why Vash probably won't be romancing anyone in this show. Checking an episode summary, her name is Rem. Is she sleep? No, that's silly.
Oh, and something about a hijacking of the sand steamer, yada yada stock plot, yada yada brat with a heart of gold, yada yada noble pirate. Neon is the first character outside our main three who might make another appearance, unless I get surprised by that special agent crossbow girl from episode 2. He's just Gasback lite, though. Really, these episodes are just Badlands lite.

Rating: Ab cramps a mile into the race.

[Feytalist]

Who the Hel is Vlad :smallbiggrin:

[danzibr]

Who the Hel is Vlad :smallbiggrin:
Had that same thought. Thought maybe one of the bad guys I forgot?

[LaZodiac]

You know what, f*** it. I just want to move forward, even if it means doing a junk job on some episodes.

Rating: Ab cramps a mile into the race.

Glad to see you did enjoy some of the episode...though overall didn't like it. Understandable. Though yeah, now you can see how Vash can be challenged: he's not skilled enough to dodge EVERY bullet of like a whole mesh of dudes, and he doesn't want to kill any of them. So things get pretty challenging.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

You know what, f*** it. I just want to move forward, even if it means doing a junk job on some episodes.

Bingo. :smallsmile: That's the NaNoWriMo spirit!

[Math_Mage]

Who the Hel is Vlad :smallbiggrin:


Had that same thought. Thought maybe one of the bad guys I forgot?
>this is your brain
>this is your brain on sleep deprivation
:smallredface:

[Math_Mage]

also there were cats in those episodes but i totally forgot where they were
ANYWAY
time to actually watch some of this show, dammit


Episode 9:
Murder Machine
http://i.imgur.com/7Wv81Of.png


The opening music promises uncomplicated good times. After three Satoshi Kon films, Gone Girl, Fury, Girls Und Panzer, and the mess that was Clariel, this feels cathartic.
*music skips* Goddammit! I am never going to get used to that.
Hang on, that's a lot of moons.
New opening scenes with Vash in some kind of train, and some guy with blue hair running for his life. Would not be surprised if this is pre-badass Wolfwood.
Speaking of which, we run across Wolfwood on a bus trip. Wow, he really is that totally innocent-looking guy. But, immediate cut to title screen. So, obviously not innocent.
Aww, he's got a cute widdle justifying backstory for his unspecified but indubitably nefarious activities. (I'm sure this mockery will turn out to be in poor taste once I find out more, so I'm getting it in while I still can.)
Not sure whether Vash's previous empty smiles were because of his past, or because he was mad about the water, but hey, I'll take it.
Lost tech working past its junk-by date. THE PLOT THICKENS
Aaand the cat's out of the bag.
SYNC MODE ACTIVATED
I was half-expecting Wolfwood to do something fancy with the knife. Oh well. It occurs to me that Vash's bounty would be good for Wolfwood's orphanage. Wonder where he's going with this.
...Wait, is that the same knife or a different one?
Why bother lying about having handled guns at this point? It was going to be transparently obvious in a minute.
That arm.
Wolfwood's off to 'work'. Not too wet, I hope.


Okay, so I was totally misled by the title in the short term, though I bet I haven't been in the long term.

I like Wolfwood's bro-rivalry relationship with Vash. It's a welcome change from the sniping with M&M, which doesn't do anything for me. But I can see how Wolfwood's attitude would begin to grate if he was there for every episode, the way M&M are. Shrug. Different characters for different roles. This way Wolfwood gets to be all insightful and challenge Vash's perspective. (By the way, it's about time someone challenged Vash's perspective.)

The plot is...an excuse to introduce us to Wolfwood. It served its purpose, I s'pose. I think I would be fairly well primed to view Wolfwood as a hidden boss even without having seen him in the movie. Inhuman endurance and strength, savvy, and what already looks like an awesome gun.

I'd probably have more commentary if I was more awake. Probably something to do with the sentinel factory.

Rating: Boring sandwich bread with a thick dollop of Nutella smeared on it.

[J-H]

I'm glad to see that this is back up and running.

We are most of the way through our re-watch of it; it's been fun, although we skipped 80% of the obligatory re-hash episode (#13, you'll know it when you see it). You'll know it when you see it. There are a few good pieces of new interaction in there, though.

I believe that the movie you saw is set somewhere around Episodes 10-11.

[LaZodiac]

Rating: Boring sandwich bread with a thick dollop of Nutella smeared on it.

One of the main reasons I'm such a fan of following Let Watchs and stuff is because I like seeing how people react to stuff. A longish time ago a friend of mine an I (the friend is very Christian) watched Trigun. His reaction to Wolfwood (and this episode in particular) was both the same and different to your reaction in many ways, and it's fascinating to see.

I'm kind of a weirdo.

[J-H]

Yeah, the Japanese in general seem to have some odd ideas about Christianity. Not quite as odd as "Backstroke of the West" translating "Jedi Council" as "Presbyterian Church," but still odd.

All I can pin Wolfwood as is "Catholic in appearance." Later in the show, he even makes a reference to reincarnation.

Outside of explicitly Christian literature, actual Christian characters are 99.8% (my guess) non-existent. If a writer/producer wants a "Christian," normally they end up with a secular stereotype like Ned Flanders, or the priest in the most recent Superman movie.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, the Japanese in general seem to have some odd ideas about Christianity. Not quite as odd as "Backstroke of the West" translating "Jedi Council" as "Presbyterian Church," but still odd.

All I can pin Wolfwood as is "Catholic in appearance." Later in the show, he even makes a reference to reincarnation.

Outside of explicitly Christian literature, actual Christian characters are 99.8% (my guess) non-existent. If a writer/producer wants a "Christian," normally they end up with a secular stereotype like Ned Flanders, or the priest in the most recent Superman movie.

If it helps any, my friend walked away from Trigun thinking it's a very good story that embodies his faith very well.

Anyway, before this slips to far into "NOPE" territory, I'm curious as to what Math_Mage will thinking about the next few episodes.

[Math_Mage]

Anyway, before this slips to far into "NOPE" territory, I'm curious as to what Math_Mage will thinking about the next few episodes.
Hey, so am I! :smallwink:

[Durkoala]

Hey, I liked Clariel!

Anyway, I think I need to rewatch this. I've got fond memories of it, but not very many of them.
This episode was the first that really made me think that there was a story hidden in this episodic anime. Vash was just being a mysterious character, The Plants could just be magic setting devices, the morals were the usual Love and Peace that keeps turning up, but some crazy laser robots that only Vash knows about and aren't explained? There was too much behind that for a decent writing team to ignore.


Yeah, the Japanese in general seem to have some odd ideas about Christianity. Not quite as odd as "Backstroke of the West" translating "Jedi Council" as "Presbyterian Church," but still odd.

All I can pin Wolfwood as is "Catholic in appearance." Later in the show, he even makes a reference to reincarnation.

Outside of explicitly Christian literature, actual Christian characters are 99.8% (my guess) non-existent. If a writer/producer wants a "Christian," normally they end up with a secular stereotype like Ned Flanders, or the priest in the most recent Superman movie.

There is the fact that Wolfwood isn't a real priest. He may not know much more about Christianity than he needs to pose as one to a desert world. As he dies, he notes that he's only been in a church this one time

[J-H]

I thought he grew up in some weird chapel being taught by metal-goggles priest guy?
The orphanage appears to be a total fabrication, though.

[Math_Mage]

Hey, I liked Clariel!

Anyway, I think I need to rewatch this. I've got fond memories of it, but not very many of them.
This episode was the first that really made me think that there was a story hidden in this episodic anime. Vash was just being a mysterious character, The Plants could just be magic setting devices, the morals were the usual Love and Peace that keeps turning up, but some crazy laser robots that only Vash knows about and aren't explained? There was too much behind that for a decent writing team to ignore.
I gave up on Clariel after 80 or so pages. Clariel doesn't even want to be part of the story--she keeps telling us so. She can't let anything happen without telling us everything she's ever thought about it, so nothing happens. Moreover, Clariel isn't an interesting character, so her headspace isn't worth the time Nix devotes to it. Character facets and plot points that could be interesting are rendered frustratingly boring because they've been telegraphed in Clariel's internal narration complaining. The writing is dull and verbose and leaves nothing dangling to engage the reader. It made me want to apologize to Robert Jordan for saying his writing was bad.

...Sorry. I really connected with the Old Kingdom trilogy, even the beginning of Lirael that many other readers apparently dislike. Clariel genuinely shocked me with how bad it was, and I'm still getting over it. I kept trying to read it anyway, and I still kind of want to, because I've since found out who Clariel becomes, and I can see how the story could be fascinating--but I just couldn't force myself to wade through the garbage to get there.

---

Um. Trigun. Right. Episodes 5 and 6 were the first really explicit introductions to the character backstory and setting backstory, respectively. Not to say there weren't hints before--I called out some lines from earlier episodes as foreshadowing, and the power plants demanded setting discussion--but between "him", Vash's agelessness, and the magic with the power plant, there was clearly more going on. Character backstory developed further with Rem flashbacks, so it was the setting's turn to develop.

Side note: the security robots whose only purpose appears to be chasing unauthorized people away from the robot-building factory are a little odd if you think about it. Presumably the lost civilization didn't use them for just that.

[Feytalist]

I thought he grew up in some weird chapel being taught by metal-goggles priest guy?
The orphanage appears to be a total fabrication, though.


Well, yeah. But from what I remember, the priest guy wasn't a real priest. Not from any real religion anyway. Also, the priest guy is actually called Chapel :smallbiggrin:

[J-H]

Are you sure? I thought Wolfwood was Chapel. In the initial meeting of the Gung-Ho Guns, they mention that Chapel didn't show, and someone made a comment about him being as sloppy as the the reports indicated.

When Wolfwood pulled up in Augusta after the Fifth Moon incident, the samurai recognized him and treated him as a fellow GHG.

[Iruka]

Are you sure? I thought Wolfwood was Chapel. In the initial meeting of the Gung-Ho Guns, they mention that Chapel didn't show, and someone made a comment about him being as sloppy as the the reports indicated.

When Wolfwood pulled up in Augusta after the Fifth Moon incident, the samurai recognized him and treated him as a fellow GHG.


In the manga, Wolfwood pretended to be Chapel to get into the GHGs. The Chapel of the anime is however a very different person than the one in the manga.

[Feytalist]

In the manga, Wolfwood pretended to be Chapel to get into the GHGs. The Chapel of the anime is however a very different person than the one in the manga.

Yup. Chapel the Evergreen is an anime-only character, and is the priest with the weird glasses. He's a Gung-Ho Gun, and Wolfwood's master. (Which I guess makes Wolfwood an honourary Gung-Ho Gun. The others certainly recognise him.)

This is anime canon, not manga canon.

[Durkoala]

I gave up on Clariel after 80 or so pages. Clariel doesn't even want to be part of the story--she keeps telling us so. She can't let anything happen without telling us everything she's ever thought about it, so nothing happens. Moreover, Clariel isn't an interesting character, so her headspace isn't worth the time Nix devotes to it. Character facets and plot points that could be interesting are rendered frustratingly boring because they've been telegraphed in Clariel's internal narration complaining. The writing is dull and verbose and leaves nothing dangling to engage the reader. It made me want to apologize to Robert Jordan for saying his writing was bad.

...Sorry. I really connected with the Old Kingdom trilogy, even the beginning of Lirael that many other readers apparently dislike. Clariel genuinely shocked me with how bad it was, and I'm still getting over it. I kept trying to read it anyway, and I still kind of want to, because I've since found out who Clariel becomes, and I can see how the story could be fascinating--but I just couldn't force myself to wade through the garbage to get there.

---

Um. Trigun. Right. Episodes 5 and 6 were the first really explicit introductions to the character backstory and setting backstory, respectively. Not to say there weren't hints before--I called out some lines from earlier episodes as foreshadowing, and the power plants demanded setting discussion--but between "him", Vash's agelessness, and the magic with the power plant, there was clearly more going on. Character backstory developed further with Rem flashbacks, so it was the setting's turn to develop.

Side note: the security robots whose only purpose appears to be chasing unauthorized people away from the robot-building factory are a little odd if you think about it. Presumably the lost civilization didn't use them for just that.

I forgot how much Clariel dragged on in the beginning. If it helps, you're about a chapter away from the plot starting to move, but it takes until chapter ten for things to start getting interesting, and then a few more chapters after that for it to get some real hooks. Once that's done, I found it pretty good. The beginning knocks it lower than the rest of the series, but overall it gave me hope for the planned book. I've always found Nix to be extra verbose and obvious in his writing, so I'm a little surprised to find it as reson why this book was worse than the rest.

---
I may be remembering it wrong because it's been a few years since I've seen Trigun (or I might just be a bit dim), but when I saw the machines, that was when I thought 'This is definitely going to go somewhere'.

The robots are defending the remains of a crashed spaceship. Presumbly there was a list of authorised people to keep people out of the robot production facility, but since everybody on the list died a long time ago, the robots attack everything. Why they use lethal force, I don't know. Maybe the damage to the ship set them to red alert mode?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I thought he grew up in some weird chapel being taught by metal-goggles priest guy?
The orphanage appears to be a total fabrication, though.

The Orphanage was definitely a real place in the manga, one of his fellow orphans becomes a character later on.

[Hiro Protagonest]

The Orphanage was definitely a real place in the manga, one of his fellow orphans becomes a character later on.

I think he means the orphanage Wolfwood was running.

Which is a real place in the anime. It's how the Gung Ho Guns threatened him.

[Math_Mage]

Took a couple days off to post a crappy review of Gone Girl. You can read that here (http://www.quora.com/Reviews-of-Gone-Girl-2014-movie/review/Terry-Drinkwater) if you want.

Anyway...


Episode 10:
Quick Draw
http://i.imgur.com/9HTF2Hc.png

Ah, acoustic guitar...wait who dat blond guy
Big town, bigger blue ruin. Relevant? (PS: No.)
Wow, that's what Vash looks like on his day off?
Well, that's my kind of meditation. :smallamused:
Vash is an idiot. Blood disappears from his face.
yay wolfwood, let the bromance commence
Why has it taken me this long to wonder just who put out the bounty on Vash? Well, now I'm wondering.
Apparently these contests have rigorous ID, because clearly putting some other name was out of the question.
Or, Wolfwood's up to something.
...Huh. That's the first time Meryl's been hesitant about anything.
kitty on da roof, drunk Millie jokes
...'Dallons'.
Oh. I bet Wolfwood's trying to draw someone out.
...and Vash is drawing him out. Heh.
What's up with your FACE, mister mustache?
mutter mutter miraculous pacifist mutter mutter
...Okay. I mean, I thought I saw the guy walking backwards earlier, but I wasn't actually expecting that.
fight fight fight fight
Yeah, I'm not buying it. They're both good enough shots to handle that chump over there. There's more to this.
putting on a show, putting on a show, rope-a-doping the audience...aaaand predictable curbstomp. Showier than necessary, but hey, why not, the cross needs some action. Also, Wolfwood gets to shout out some character notes.
Yeah, it was someone else's idea after all. Now I'm all curious.
cat again

Okay, so guessing who was setting up who with the gunfight was good fun. I suppose the little play-fight we just saw is foreshadowing some serious conflict down the line, because having two nigh-invincible 'love and peace' bros stomping around the Months Of The Year is a little much. Seems like Wolfwood wants Vash to do more for the sake of the innocent, even if it means putting the screws to the rest. That's the crack in the relationship. Give it time to develop. By the time we get Wolfwood's full backstory, it'll have matured. That's how I see it. But then, this isn't necessarily that kind of show.

Hmmmph. That's all the post-episode commentary I can think of. Apparently next episode is meaty? I'll get to it soon.

Rating: Looking at the shiny wing of the passenger jet you're sitting in while it's in a holding pattern above the runway.

[LaZodiac]

Ah, episode 7. So much subtext.

Next episode's gonna be a good one, if it is what I think it is.

[ChaosPerfected]

Finally now the anime can actually start.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Without saying too much...yes, you've definitely hit upon the crack in their relationship. It's a key bit of grist in the show.