Any ideas for a Kobold character?

[Falka]

Long story short - my party has adopted a Kobold during their adventures. They murdered the kobold's camp and had him tag along with them, thanks to a pacificst NG Gnome Druid who tried to befriend the kobolds while they were being ambushed.

A newbie is supposed to join my table for next session, so I thought that maybe I could make him play the kobold as a Rogue.

Should I just give him regular kobold stats, Darkvision and a cheesy racial trait that lets him be stealthy?

Usually I don't like to allow monsters to become playable characters, but I think this is the best way to allow a guy to join the group in the middle of an adventure. And could be fun.

[Raland]

Firstly, I reply as a fairly big kobold fan, so I have no small ammount of bias. Thanks to my enthusiasm this could get a little wordy.

Here goes:

I imagine the monster manual will give more information to work with, but it is unfortunately not out yet (as far as I know?). I'd suggest looking at how say 3.5 or pathfinder handled kobold rules. In 3.5 there was some imbalanced things with kobolds, particularly in regards to sorcerors and in 5th edition their shifty racial was pretty neat but I don't think it would work with 5th very well. I would recommend Races of Dragons (the 3.5 book) if only to get an idea of what they are as a concept. Also, they're short like halflings and gnomes so looking at those races could be good for comparison there is little reason why they shouldn't have something equivalent to halfling nimbleness. Maybe 30 movement speed instead, but I don't know. Once again, I have not seen the kobold stats in the adventures or monster manual..

As a player and not a DM I have not actually looked at the kobold stats, so I can not really comment, if they're balanced with the base classes, get a +2 in dex and they definitely should get dark vision. Also maybe light sensitivity if his character isn't really a surface kobold. I do not see anything wrong with a stealthy racial (they're small sneaky cowards so it fits) but would also suggest looking at alternatives such as trap related or a sorcerer cantrip (like how high elves seem to get a wizard cantrip) or something to do with slings.

To look at the lore behind it according to races of dragons kobolds are quick to look at adventuring groups as their new tribe so its understandable that he could tag along, (why a gnome druid has any sympathy for kobolds is the harder thing to explain). Should be some cultural shock, being socially inclined towards a lawful evil attitude and in FR and Eberron at least, having gnome hating backgrounds. I wouldn't blame you if you did not want to allow a player to play a kobold or any monster race simply because it creates a lot of issues an adventuring group doesn't normally have to deal with which I imagine is your reason for being reluctant in the past to include them.

[akaddk]

I would have the kobold kill the PC's in their sleep. It's a kobold after all.

As for the new player, give him a proper PC. I would feel screwed if I got a kobold NPC converted haphazardly into a PC for the DM's convenience.

[rlc]

I would have the kobold kill the PC's in their sleep. It's a kobold after all.

As for the new player, give him a proper PC. I would feel screwed if I got a kobold NPC converted haphazardly into a PC for the DM's convenience.

this, right here. there are plenty of ways to do this. making somebody play a certain character isn't one of them.

[Falka]

Firstly, I reply as a fairly big kobold fan, so I have no small ammount of bias. Thanks to my enthusiasm this could get a little wordy.

To look at the lore behind it according to races of dragons kobolds are quick to look at adventuring groups as their new tribe so its understandable that he could tag along, (why a gnome druid has any sympathy for kobolds is the harder thing to explain). Should be some cultural shock, being socially inclined towards a lawful evil attitude and in FR and Eberron at least, having gnome hating backgrounds. I wouldn't blame you if you did not want to allow a player to play a kobold or any monster race simply because it creates a lot of issues an adventuring group doesn't normally have to deal with which I imagine is your reason for being reluctant in the past to include them.

No problem, I appreciate the insight. However I do not plan to make something overly complex. As I said, it's just a simple character for a newbie player.

The gnome girl is a NG Druid of Mielikki.

The thing is that the group found a cultist camp. The cultists were bullying the kobolds (as you might suppose, they are the fodder end of the baddies). Once the PCs attacked, the camp went nuts - the cultists were disarmed and the kobolds just scattered away like headless chickens as they were being attacked during lunchtime.

My murderhobo PC group just murdered them all while the Druid wanted to help the kobolds "rebel against the evil cultists" (I allowed it because the character is really fond of critters and stuff, she's level 2 so besides the events in Greenest, had little experience with the real world).

The player asked me if even after the fight, there was a kobold alive. I allowed him to roll Medicine, he managed to stabilise a kobold. Then the Paladin had a little remorse for what happened and Layed-on-Hands after the kobold warned them of an ambush camp that was stated a mile away, in exchange for his life and the heal.

The thing is, the whole PC group decided that they won't let the kobold run away so he's tagging along with them. Yeah, I suppose I could make him try to kill them at their sleep, but then again, the PCs killed all his mates effortlessly, so if I were to be in the kobold's position, I'm not sure if I would take that course of action.


this, right here. there are plenty of ways to do this. making somebody play a certain character isn't one of them.

Actually I'm not even supposed to allow someone else to join the table, I'm merely doing it because it's a friend of a friend that never played DnD in his life and wants to try it. I thought it would be the best due to the current scenario (I don't need to explain him all the rules and waste an hour filling out a whole PC sheet for him, asking for stuff like Backgrounds, etc when 90% of players try the game with a pregen character). But I see what you mean and I appreciate your insight.

[Raland]

Sounds like a cool story you got going there. I suppose the kobold would solve you having an awkward random adventurer approaches you in a tavern/some other cliche and save you having to manage an npc.. and save them having to make a character. Three birds with one stone.

[akaddk]

The thing is, the whole PC group decided that they won't let the kobold run away so he's tagging along with them. Yeah, I suppose I could make him try to kill them at their sleep, but then again, the PCs killed all his mates effortlessly, so if I were to be in the kobold's position, I'm not sure if I would take that course of action.

I was exaggerating. I do that sometimes. Only sometimes though. Not all the time. That would be rude.

I'd have him act like a kobold would act after the party had just slaughtered his entire clan. Whatever that may be.

As for this friend, is it a friend of one of the people in the group and all the group are ok with this newbie joining?

[1of3]

this, right here. there are plenty of ways to do this. making somebody play a certain character isn't one of them.

Says who? It' an elegant method, if you are able to convey how the character is supposed to behave.

[Joe the Rat]

Kobold would be easy to switch up into Rogue. You might want to drop pack tactics - having advantage AND sneak attack damage whenever he attacks someone next to his allies might be overkill... but more importantly it's not something you would be able to do at any other table for the time being. If you leave that in, make it clear that this is a racial ability, and offset with the sunlight sensitivity. Note that according to the Basic DM rules, stock Kobolds no longer have natural AC.

If I were to ballpark a setup for Stockholm the Kobold here, build him out like you would a Halfling Rogue. Assume +2Dex, +1Int for the racial mods; Small, 30' move, Darkvision, Poison Resistance, and Advantage on all trap-related rolls (if you want to play up their trap king nature) or the Dwarven stonecunning (if you want to play up the underground miner thing). Or both. I might be short on powers. Add Craft(Mining) for flavor. He will be equipped as the party would provide; assume he has leather armor. Use the Thief archetype if you are at lvl3+.


As for this friend, is it a friend of one of the people in the group and all the group are ok with this newbie joining? Tangential to the main question, but a valid concern. Is everyone cool with a one-off drop-in on a "no new players" table?

[Yorrin]

The player might be okay with playing a kobold, but be sure to check with him/her first.

That being said, I'd prolly give a kobold the following stats:
+2 Dex +1Cha
Darkvision
Sunlight Sensitivity & Pack Tactics
Common & Draconic

Pretty simple, really. SunSensitivity will counteract Pack Tactics enough of the time that I don't see it being a problem.

Another idea would be to have that little kobold be magically/divinely transformed into a Dragonborn if the player would prefer that route. Some sort of chance encounter with a being/place of power could do the trick.

[Falka]

Tangential to the main question, but a valid concern. Is everyone cool with a one-off drop-in on a "no new players" table?

Of course, they asked me if I would mind bringing a new player. I'm not the kind of person that forces someone into a table.

I like the last ideas. I think I'm going to do something in the line of Yorrin's suggestion. Sounds simple enough.

[micahwc]

One of the disadvantages a kobold player would face would be the instant reaction of most characters in the world to want to kill him. The PC's arn't the only murderhobos in the world.

[Yorrin]

I like the last ideas. I think I'm going to do something in the line of Yorrin's suggestion. Sounds simple enough.

Glad to be of help


One of the disadvantages a kobold player would face would be the instant reaction of most characters in the world to want to kill him. The PC's arn't the only murderhobos in the world.

This is a valid point. Potential solutions include illusion spells, leaving him outside town when the party goes in, wrapping him up in blankets and claiming he's a sick child/halfling, or smuggling him into/out of places in all the creative ways PCs can come up with to do that.

[hawklost]

Yes, but that same reaction could be done to Dragonbord NPCs in that adventure (assuming they are chromatic or even not, some people don't know the difference) and any Tiefling that is around. To a lesser extent, people might or might not take well to a Half-Orc either depending on how backwater they are.

You have that issue in any game where PCs are playing races that are considered 'evilish' (like Teiflings or Chromatic Dragonborn)

[micahwc]

Yes, but that same reaction could be done to Dragonbord NPCs in that adventure (assuming they are chromatic or even not, some people don't know the difference) and any Tiefling that is around. To a lesser extent, people might or might not take well to a Half-Orc either depending on how backwater they are.

You have that issue in any game where PCs are playing races that are considered 'evilish' (like Teiflings or Chromatic Dragonborn)

Valid point, but how often does this come up in play? How often should it come up in play? Also valid for Drow.

[rlc]

Says who? It' an elegant method, if you are able to convey how the character is supposed to behave.
So elegance is a good excuse for making somebody do something now? If the player is fine with it, that's one thing, but then you're not making them do anything.

[hawklost]

So elegance is a good excuse for making somebody do something now? If the player is fine with it, that's one thing, but then you're not making them do anything.

There are multiple reasons a DM might decide to force a player to do something.

1) Adventure is not in a good place to add a new PC, so we use an NPC
2) PC has died but will be a while before player will get to introduce new PC. Let him have NPC
3) New player does not know much about DnD, it is better to give him something to sink his teeth into immediately and then give him a character he creates after he understands the rules better.

[rlc]

There are multiple reasons a DM might decide to force a player to do something.

1) Adventure is not in a good place to add a new PC, so we use an NPC
2) PC has died but will be a while before player will get to introduce new PC. Let him have NPC
3) New player does not know much about DnD, it is better to give him something to sink his teeth into immediately and then give him a character he creates after he understands the rules better.

Yeah, those are still terrible reasons to force somebody to do something. I'd rather sit and wait a few minutes in all of those circumstances than to be forced to do something I didn't want to do. Or, I could always just say screw your game and leave.

[hawklost]

Yeah, those are still terrible reasons to force somebody to do something. I'd rather sit and wait a few minutes in all of those circumstances than to be forced to do something I didn't want to do. Or, I could always just say screw your game and leave.

A few minutes? How fast do your adventures run? There have been times in an adventure where it doesn't make sense to introduce a new PC for at least 1 session, meaning you get to sit on the side and twiddle your thumbs or play an NPC turned PC. If you don't like it, its not like you are not capable of making a PC on the side for when you can switch it out.

[rlc]

A few minutes? How fast do your adventures run? There have been times in an adventure where it doesn't make sense to introduce a new PC for at least 1 session, meaning you get to sit on the side and twiddle your thumbs or play an NPC turned PC. If you don't like it, its not like you are not capable of making a PC on the side for when you can switch it out.

In a dungeon? The new character is shackled up somewhere.
It's an abandoned dungeon? They just so happen to be exploring it just like you are and you cross paths.
On an island? Only survivor of a voyage that shipwrecked there.
Already an NPC for that? The NPC never liked the player to the point where he refused to work together and liked about being the only one.
etc, etc.

[Falka]

Yeah, those are still terrible reasons to force somebody to do something. I'd rather sit and wait a few minutes in all of those circumstances than to be forced to do something I didn't want to do. Or, I could always just say screw your game and leave.

Well, you can always go to another table. It's not that I'm shoving anything down someone's throat.

The PC group has already found pics and named the kobold, so I didn't even need to suggest the change. They were thinking about it already. :smalleek:

[rlc]

Well, you can always go to another table. It's not that I'm shoving anything down someone's throat.

The PC group has already found pics and named the kobold, so I didn't even need to suggest the change. They were thinking about it already. :smalleek:

well, like i said, if everybody is fine with it, then that's a completely different story.

[cobaltstarfire]

In a dungeon? The new character is shackled up somewhere.
It's an abandoned dungeon? They just so happen to be exploring it just like you are and you cross paths.
On an island? Only survivor of a voyage that shipwrecked there.
Already an NPC for that? The NPC never liked the player to the point where he refused to work together and liked about being the only one.
etc, etc.

I'd actually rather play an available npc and swap to my character later over having my character just shoehorned in at random myself.

[UHF]

First I'd look at what traits help Kobold's survive. Weaselly liars with prolific gonads doesn't quite cut it for a balanced race.

I prefer to think of Tucker's Kobolds. So... pack tactics, tinkering trap making.
http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/

A good start point might be the Human Variant, a feat (Skulk), +1 to two stats, and 2 proficiencies (think tinkering, like thieves tools). Dark vision (Drow grade?) with the usual downsides, and small. You might balance the 'small' with an ability to run through people's legs like a halfling.

[MustacheFart]

Honestly, you wouldn't have to force me one bit.

I get to play a race not available normally? My answer: Sweet! Yes please. I will suffer racism as this race? My answer: I still get to play a race nobody else is so okay then.

Plus he said the npc will be a rogue, no? Then hell, use illusions/disguises to make yourself look like whatever.

All of that said, I agree that it shouldn't be forced on a new player regardless of what the other players think. They don't have to play it. He/she does. Just as fast as a character sheet can be filled out for a Kobold so could one for Bob the Ditch digger who said "F! Manual labor for these Cultists! I'm done." and picks up a sword & shield.

[Sartharina]

So elegance is a good excuse for making somebody do something now? If the player is fine with it, that's one thing, but then you're not making them do anything.
If the player's not biased against or for any existing character, letting them get into the game with a pre-made/pre-existing character in the party is perfectly acceptable. If they're gonna be long-term players, they can look over the options and make their own. It means they can actually play, instead of sit out making a character while everyone else plays.