Crafting Rings need help explain

[keeper2161]

I will be using the spell invisibility as a example of crafting custom items. Ok so I want a character to be a crafter. I want the character to craft rings. The feat Forge Rings allows this, although I don't see why Craft Wondrous Item can't do this. So a ring of invisibility costs 20k. Here is where I get confused. To get the feat Forge Ring you have to have CL of 12. The formula for crafting a ring with a command word is Spell level × caster level × 1,800 gp. Invisibility is a second level spell. You have a caster level of 12. 2x12x1800=43200 The base price for the ring is 43,200 gold. Can you scale down your caster level to the spell aka 2x4x1800=14400? Again I am using invisibility as a template for custom spells.

[mealin]

Yes, you can voluntarily lower your caster level.

[Dalebert]

The feat Forge Rings allows this, although I don't see why Craft Wondrous Item can't do this.

What don't you understand? Rings are a different category of item than wondrous items. There's a craft feat for each category.

As far as the formula goes, that's only there for custom items (with DM approval). If there's a price listed for the item and assuming you're not making some customization to it (like having it act at a higher CL) then you would use the listed price and disregard the formula. Specific trumps general.

[Barstro]

What don't you understand? Rings are a different category of item than wondrous items. There's a craft feat for each category.

The confusing part, ignoring RAW, is that someone who takes Craft Wondrous Items can somehow make boots, headbands, cloaks, etc. with all sorts of magical properties that can do pretty much the same things as rings (no real understanding of how the crafter managed to stitch together a cloak in the first place). But, SOMEHOW, trying to do the exact same thing on a small circle of gold he already has is impossible. Makes no logical sense.

RAW; Different feats. No Argument. Done.

[Telonius]

I recently had a very similar question asked by my wife (brand-new player, making an Artificer). I'd never really thought about it until it came up, but yes - the sorts of bonuses that Rings can give, can typically also be given by Wondrous Items. The only explanation I could come up with as to why that is, is that the Ring slot is somehow special. Unlike every other magical item slot, a typical humanoid has two ring slots. You can't get that on other magic items - even though you have two feet, you need to wear both boots to get the bonus for Boots of Striding and Springing. You can't wear a left Boot of Spider Climb and a right Boot of Levitation and have them work. Same way with gloves and bracers. But for Rings, for whatever reason, you can get two of them at once. (Or more if you take the Extra Rings feat from Eberron - and as far as I'm aware, no other magic item slot has a similar "extra slot" feat).

Because they're special, they get their own feat and crafting rules.

[Dalebert]

Along with that, there are certain effects that are "supposed" to be on certain slots unless the DM makes a special exception. You really shouldn't have boots of invisibility or a ring of +5 to stealth or a ring of +2 to INT, for instance.

[Trasilor]

I will be using the spell invisibility as a example of crafting custom items. Ok so I want a character to be a crafter. I want the character to craft rings. The feat Forge Rings allows this, although I don't see why Craft Wondrous Item can't do this. So a ring of invisibility costs 20k. Here is where I get confused. To get the feat Forge Ring you have to have CL of 12. The formula for crafting a ring with a command word is Spell level × caster level × 1,800 gp. Invisibility is a second level spell. You have a caster level of 12. 2x12x1800=43200 The base price for the ring is 43,200 gold. Can you scale down your caster level to the spell aka 2x4x1800=14400? Again I am using invisibility as a template for custom spells.

Regarding Rings v Wonderous items:
I am not sure why but rings, rods, and staves require a special feat. However, your formula is off - Continuous/Use Activated is 2000*CL*SP. However, the Magic Item Creation Cost formulas were only designed as guideline. IIRC, there also an additional cost associated with effectiveness / power not necessarily inherent in the cost calculation - hence why it is called a "guide".

[keeper2161]

So Is Forge Ring a 3.5 feat cause I don't remember it in 3.0

EDIT: What other costs are there?

EDIT: Besides exp.

[Shining Wrath]

Rings are special because LotR and a lot of other fantasy used rings.

There's more mysticism associated with the circle than other shapes (except, maybe, pentagrams).

I believe in D&D 5 you can wear as many magic items as will it on your body - 10 rings, 2 amulets, et cetera.

[Telonius]

So Is Forge Ring a 3.5 feat cause I don't remember it in 3.0

EDIT: What other costs are there?

EDIT: Besides exp.

It was there in 3.0 as well; there are some 3.0 SRD's still kicking around the internet (though not as well-known or well-linked as d20srd), and it's listed there.

The costs are time, gold, and XP. Half the base price in gold, 1 day per 1,000gp in the base price, and 1/25 the base price in XP, same as most other magic items.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The confusing part, ignoring RAW, is that someone who takes Craft Wondrous Items can somehow make boots, headbands, cloaks, etc. with all sorts of magical properties that can do pretty much the same things as rings (no real understanding of how the crafter managed to stitch together a cloak in the first place). But, SOMEHOW, trying to do the exact same thing on a small circle of gold he already has is impossible. Makes no logical sense.

RAW; Different feats. No Argument. Done.

I once rewrote the item creation feats into a new system.


Craft Magical Arms and Armor was completely unaltered.

Craft Spell Capacitors
You can craft magical wands and eventually staves
Prerequisite: Caster level 5th
Upon taking this feat you gain the ability to craft magic wands, at base caster level 12th you can craft Staves.

*Wands and staves are very similar items in 3.5 so they are merged into one feat.

Craft Magical Apparel
Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.
You can craft magically enchanted clothing such as clocks, bracers, vestments, amulets ioun stones and other jewelry but not initially rings. In essence every wondrous item that was worn falls under this feat. When you reach base Caster level 12 you can use this feat to forge magical rings as well

*To be absolutely clear if the prerequisites feat WAS craft wondrous and you wore the item, this covers it plus rings.*

Craft Magical Tools
Prerequisite
Caster level 3rd.
Craft Magical Tools allows the caster to craft various wondrous items that are not worn, in addition to rods after reaching base caster level 9.

Imbune Spell Property
This combines Brew Potion and Scribe Scroll into one feat.

Craft Construct is gained automatically when you have Craft Magical Apparel, Tools and Magical arms and armor. It took 3 feats to make constructs before, it still takes 3 feats now.

The purpose of all this was to first reduce the number of item creation feats in existence and also to make them more equally appealing.

[Barstro]

Along with that, there are certain effects that are "supposed" to be on certain slots unless the DM makes a special exception. You really shouldn't have boots of invisibility or a ring of +5 to stealth or a ring of +2 to INT, for instance.

I'd almost buy this argument if you could point to some sort of stat/bonus/something that is only on rings and cannot somehow be found in wondrous. There should certainly be a Cloak of Invisibility (http://frpnet.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/sheila_cloak_of_invisibility.jpg).

I'd even have it be that Wondrous can only do effects up to a certain "power" (edit: or total cost), and better (costlier) things can be done with rings. But such is not the case by RAW.


Regarding Rings v Wonderous items:
I am not sure why but rings, rods, and staves require a special feat.
Rods, staves, and wands are quite different from Wondrous Items (which I think are the same as rings).

[Dalebert]

I'd almost buy this argument if you could point to some sort of stat/bonus/something that is only on rings and cannot somehow be found in wondrous. There should certainly be a Cloak of Invisibility (http://frpnet.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/sheila_cloak_of_invisibility.jpg).

True, but not ANY body slot. I guess the idea behind rings is they are more versatile body slots than the others, though I don't know of putting stat bonuses on rings. Page 288 of the DMG talks about body slot affinities. Yes, you could probably argue for a cloak of invisibility, but gloves of invisibility would certainly be discouraged, for instance, and at least would cost 50% more. Meanwhile, those two finger slots have no particular affinity and there are quite a wide variety of effects that can be placed there via rings.

[Trasilor]

I'd almost buy this argument if you could point to some sort of stat/bonus/something that is only on rings and cannot somehow be found in wondrous. There should certainly be a Cloak of Invisibility (http://frpnet.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/sheila_cloak_of_invisibility.jpg).

I'd even have it be that Wondrous can only do effects up to a certain "power" (edit: or total cost), and better (costlier) things can be done with rings. But such is not the case by RAW.

As far as I know, deflection bonuses are only on rings. Also Ring of Evasion grants a class ability


Rods, staves, and wands are quite different from Wondrous Items (which I think are the same as rings).

Why are rings a Wondrous Item? By definition, Wondrous items were everything else (not a Scroll, Potion, Wand, Rod, Staff or Ring). If it was you can wear wondrous items, just know that not all wondrous items are wearable. I honestly think they added the various feats as a feat tax. The time (1 day per 1000gp) and XP (1/25) are the same for all magical items.

[Yahzi]

Crafting rings is the hardest thing to do because that's what Sauron did. Seriously, I don't think the reasoning went any further than that.

[Barstro]

Crafting rings is the hardest thing to do because that's what Sauron did. Seriously, I don't think the reasoning went any further than that.

Sauron also raised his hands in the air. That doesn't make it difficult.

Wait a minute. Are you implying that D&D stole from paid homage to LotR in its inception?

[Beneath]

I recently had a very similar question asked by my wife (brand-new player, making an Artificer). I'd never really thought about it until it came up, but yes - the sorts of bonuses that Rings can give, can typically also be given by Wondrous Items. The only explanation I could come up with as to why that is, is that the Ring slot is somehow special. Unlike every other magical item slot, a typical humanoid has two ring slots. You can't get that on other magic items - even though you have two feet, you need to wear both boots to get the bonus for Boots of Striding and Springing. You can't wear a left Boot of Spider Climb and a right Boot of Levitation and have them work. Same way with gloves and bracers. But for Rings, for whatever reason, you can get two of them at once. (Or more if you take the Extra Rings feat from Eberron - and as far as I'm aware, no other magic item slot has a similar "extra slot" feat).

Because they're special, they get their own feat and crafting rules.

Adding on to this


Along with that, there are certain effects that are "supposed" to be on certain slots unless the DM makes a special exception. You really shouldn't have boots of invisibility or a ring of +5 to stealth or a ring of +2 to INT, for instance.

Not quite. Rings don't show up on the body slot affinities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinities) table. It's my understanding that another way rings are special is that they're outside the body slot affinities rule; a cloak is supposed to do a few kinds of things and a belt others, but a ring could be anything. There are rings of protection, normally the domain of cloaks (and Chameleon Power, combining a cloak of elvenkind with a hat of disguise), rings of wizardry to improve class abilities (normally the domain of vests), rings with multiple effects like elemental command, rings that enhance senses (x-ray vision), normally the domain of things worn on the eyes, rings with movement abilities (ring of jumping, ring of climbing, ring of swimming), rings of destructive power (shooting stars, ring of the ram), which is normally gauntlets, and so on. This is just from the SRD.

As for why this is, Tolkien casts a long shadow. Rings are special because of the One Ring, basically.