Looking for a budget über charger

[HMS Invincible]

The enemy has lots of soon to be loyal refugees but not a lot of money. They decide to solve both problems by training them as uber chargers.
They need to be a threat to a group of lvl 6 PCs.
I was thinking of lancers but horses are expensive. Therefore I propose a platoon of chargers with only a lance, minimal class levels, and a weeks worth of supplies. How much dmg can I cram in on a shoestring budget? Target ac is 22 and they are a wizard, crusader, cleric, swordsage and cavalier PF. Thoughts? You can suggest as many guys as you need but I'll prioritize smaller and cheaper load outs.

Edit. The key things I'm looking for is low level.
Cheap
No tier 1 or 2s
E6 campaign
Mostly uh a with elite array but I'll throw in whatever sounds reasonAble or fun that maintains verisimilitude.

[Zaq]

The three key components to a charger are Pounce, Leap Attack, and Shock Trooper. Pounce is gained by dipping Barbarian (ideally Whirling Frenzy Barbarian, because an extra attack is very helpful indeed). Shock Trooper takes three feats, and Leap Attack takes one more feat after that. Shock Trooper and Leap Attack both have prereqs that make them impossible to take before 6th level, so your level 6 class has to be a class that gives a bonus feat, usually Fighter. You take Power Attack as your level 1 feat, Improved Bull Rush as your level 3 feat, then Leap Attack as your level 6 feat, with Shock Trooper as your Fighter bonus feat at 6th level.

So basically, you need at least one level of Barbarian, at least one level of Fighter, and four additional levels of some full-BAB class, which can be Fighter, Barbarian, or something else. (Do note that Barb 1/Fighter 5 WILL NOT work, since you need a bonus feat at 6th level; Barb 2/Fighter 4 is fine.) The only item you really need is a two-handed weapon of some sort.

Be warned that this IS a very high-damage style of character, and Shock Trooper makes them into glass cannons: basically any attack against them WILL hit, but if they successfully charge someone, they're going to be doing ABSURD damage. Sending chargers against PCs has a very high chance of resulting in one or more PC deaths, especially if there's more than one charger.

[HMS Invincible]

How does the build work with less levels? Or less stats? The damage I'm looking for is in the high 20s. Enough to down the squishies but also enough to bring some hurt onto the melee dudes.
Eg. Lance charger + power attack. 3d8 + 18. However it lacks accuraccy... Unless I throw in rage. Hmmm.
3bab + 3 str + 2 charge + 2 rage+ wep focus 1. That gets me 10 to attack after power attacking.

[Piggy Knowles]

Crusader or Warblade 3 with Battle Leader's Charge and possibly the Leading the Charge stance should do the trick just fine. Heck, if you're only looking for 20ish damage, they don't even need Power Attack.

[eggynack]

How does the build work with less levels? Or less stats?
Pretty well. Cut it down to just two levels of barbarian, running whirling frenzy, spirit lion totem, and maybe wolf totem, if you want some tripping in there. If you assume a base of 18 strength, 22 from water orc, 26 from whirling frenzy, then we're talking about an extra 12 damage from strength. Make the weapon a greatsword for 7 weapon damage, pushing the total to 19, and then you have two attacks in a round from whirling frenzy, for a total of 38 damage in a round.

After that, you can modulate it down if you want. Assume guisarme instead of greatsword for tripping, pushing total damage down to 34, and assume an elite array base strength of 15 instead of 18, and you top out at an average damage of 28 in a round, meeting your general desired damage. Of course, that's not including feats, so you could also toss on power attack, or you could commit more to the tripping thing, and add in combat reflexes or knock-down.

[OldTrees1]

1st level Ubercharger:
Classes - Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy) 1
Feats - Power Attack(1st)
[2 attacks per turn at the level where most get only 1 attack]

3rd level Ubercharger:
Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy, Wolf Totem) 2 / Fighter 1
Power Attack(1st), Improved Trip(2nd via Wolf Totem), Knock-down(3rd), Improved Bull Rush(3rd via Fighter)
[2 attacks per turn with the chance of 1-2 free attacks]

6th level Ubercharger:
Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy, Wolf Totem) 2 / Fighter(Dungeoncrasher) 4
Power Attack(1st), Improved Trip(2nd via Wolf Totem), Knock-down(3rd), Improved Bull Rush(3rd via Fighter), Leap Attack(6th), Shock Trooper(6th via Fighter)
[Shocktrooper is usable as either a glass cannon or a Dungeoncrasher]

[HMS Invincible]

The damage is there but how accurate are we talking here? I'll do the crusader stance or maneuver if need be for the + 4.
So we got a pair of barbs lvl 2 alongside a crusader 2. If I lower it to elite array humans, I should top out at + 12 or 13 depending.

[Feint's End]

Well with elite array humans you sit at +5 at level 1 (4 str+ 1 bab). You can add 2 from charging and 2 if you somehow get a cheap way of flanking (maybe trained dogs? Would spice up the encounter too) bringing you to +9 and add someone who casts bless before combat for another +1. Subtract 2 for whirling frenzy and we are at 2 attacks:
+6/+6 for and average of 13 damage each.

Heck you could even add weapon focus if they won't power attack anyways for +7 to hit.

Depending on your group you want them level 2 upwards for the hp though (which with weapon focus would bring them to +8 which isn't bad).

Just add more levels of barbarian or martial adepts for higher power as appropriate. (The knockdown combo posted above is pretty devastating too)

[eggynack]

The damage is there but how accurate are we talking here?
It works out to be pretty accurate. My build doesn't drop any to-hit points to power attack currently, whirling frenzy puts you generally neutral in terms of to-hit, and high strength obviously puts you in a good place where this is concerned. You can pump up the damage by quite a bit, at least 8 if you go full power attack and more if you pull in other sources, but that would indeed hit accuracy.

Generally speaking, the success of any given attack for the barbarian should have the same approximate success chance as an attack with a warrior of the same strength, which is pretty high. To be more specific, the 26 strength top end version would have +8 from strength, +2 from BAB, -2 from whirling frenzy, and then you also get a +2 if you're charging, adding up to +10 on a charge, and +8 otherwise. That's about what I would reasonably expect out of a 2nd level character.

[HMS Invincible]

In keeping with the desperate nature of the enemy, I made a couple variants.
Barb 1/crusader 1 = Lancer 15 to 100 gp to fund, depending on how hard it is to train a refugee.
+2 BAB + 2 Str + 2 rage + 2 Charge + 1 Wep Foc + 4 Crusader maneuver(vanguard strike?)
1d8 lance + 2 str+1 whetstone + 2 rage on a charge becomes : +13 attack/ 3d8 + 15 (29 avg dmg, 55% to hit)

Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy) 1/Crusader 1 = Tripper 15 to 100gp to fund.
+2 BAB + 2 Str + 2 rage + 2 Charge + 1 Wep Foc + 4 maneuver
2d4 Guisarme + 2 str+1 whetstone + 2 rage on a charge becomes :+11/+11 attack/ 2d4 + 5 dmg /2d4 + 5 ( 20 avg dmg, trip, 45% to hit, but roll twice)

I think Island of Blades stance could work. Lose 1 BAB for flanking when attacking while adjacent. But I can't say no to the +4 vanguard strike, even if it requires me bringing a buddy every single time to prep the actual 2nd charge. I do feel sad I'm losing out on the "fear my crappy peasants w/ cheap weapons!!!" feeling. Maybe I could thrown in a diplomancer for a fanatical bonus of some sort? That exists right?
Btw, the campaign is e6, No tier 1 or 2s.

[Feint's End]

How do you get that Lance dmg. By my calculations you sit at 2d8+12(16 with pa). With wetstone 18 ... note that you can two hand a lance. Also lance damage only gets multiplied while mounted

[OldTrees1]

The damage is there but how accurate are we talking here? I'll do the crusader stance or maneuver if need be for the + 4.
So we got a pair of barbs lvl 2 alongside a crusader 2. If I lower it to elite array humans, I should top out at + 12 or 13 depending.


1st level Ubercharger:
Classes - Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy) 1
Feats - Power Attack(1st)
[2 attacks per turn at the level where most get only 1 attack]

Human Extra Feat: Weapon Focus
14-15 Str (18 when raging)
Accuracy: +5 Attack (+1 masterwork lance +1 Weapon Focus +1 BAB + 4 Str -2 Extra Attack) vs AC 22 = 20% accuracy
Damage: 2d8+12 per hit * 0.2 hits per attack * 2 attacks = 8.4 damage per turn


3rd level Ubercharger:
Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy, Wolf Totem) 2 / Fighter 1
Power Attack(1st), Improved Trip(2nd via Wolf Totem), Knock-down(3rd), Improved Bull Rush(3rd via Fighter)
[2 attacks per turn with the chance of 1-2 free attacks]

Human Extra Feat: Weapon Focus
14-15 Str (18 when raging)
Accuracy: +7 Attack (+1 masterwork lance +1 Weapon Focus +3 BAB + 4 Str -2 Extra Attack) vs AC 22 = 30% accuracy
Base Damage: 2d8+12 per hit * 0.3 hits per attack * 2 attacks = 12.6 damage per turn
Trip attempts: 0.6 hits per turn * 1/1 of hits can knockdown = 0.6 trip attempts per turn
Assuming all trip attempts succeed (due to lack of ability to calculate)
Damage: 12.6 base damage per turn + 6.3 damage per attack * 0.6 chance of an extra attack = 16.38 damage per turn

[HMS Invincible]

How do you get that Lance dmg. By my calculations you sit at 2d8+12(16 with pa). With wetstone 18 ... note that you can two hand a lance. Also lance damage only gets multiplied while mounted

Well that's my mistake. If I'm not coughing up money for armor, I'm definitely not wasting money on horses. Will definitely have to go with a guisarme and a greatsword. I have 2 feats by level 2 cuz they're probably humans. Maybe I should shove in powerful charge feat? 1d8 for a feat isn't awful considering I don't need these peasants for anything else. I may have to suck it up and throw in a 3rd class level. But that feels outside the spirit of the scenario.

Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy) 1/Crusader 1 = Tripper 15 to 100gp to fund.
+2 BAB + 2 Str + 2 rage + 2 Charge + 1 Wep Foc + 4 maneuver
2d4 Guisarme + 2 str+1 whetstone + 2 rage on a charge becomes :+11/+11 attack/ 2d4 + 5 dmg /2d4 + 5 ( 20 avg dmg, trip, 45% to hit, but roll twice)

OldTree, switch out the masterwork weapon/mount but add in a charge modifier. Throw in the sacrificial vanguard strike, and we can reach 50% roughly accuracy. For a higher chance of flanking, I'll probably surround them with cheap camouflage. Btw, if they are human with an extra feat, what is their 2nd feat?
Human Extra Feat: Weapon Focus
14-15 Str (18 when raging)
Accuracy: +5 Attack (+weapon +1 Weapon Focus +1 BAB +2 charge + 4 Str -2 Extra Attack) vs AC 22 = 25% accuracy

Thus we end up with a band of 3 men. Crusader 1, Whirling Barb 1. The first one eats his miss at 20-30 % accuracy, and possibly foregoing his whirling attack penalty. Then the other two attack in turn to take advantage of the bonus. If need be, scale up encounter by adding additional teams of these men.

[OldTrees1]

OldTree, switch out the masterwork weapon/mount but add in a charge modifier. Throw in the sacrificial vanguard strike, and we can reach 50% roughly accuracy. For a higher chance of flanking, I'll probably surround them with cheap camouflage. Btw, if they are human with an extra feat, what is their 2nd feat?
Human Extra Feat: Weapon Focus
14-15 Str (18 when raging)
Accuracy: +5 Attack (+weapon +1 Weapon Focus +1 BAB +2 charge + 4 Str -2 Extra Attack) vs AC 22 = 25% accuracy

Thus we end up with a band of 3 men. Crusader 1, Whirling Barb 1. The first one eats his miss at 20-30 % accuracy, and possibly foregoing his whirling attack penalty. Then the other two attack in turn to take advantage of the bonus. If need be, scale up encounter by adding additional teams of these men.

Doh, I forgot the charge +2 attack.
The 1st HD feat was Power Attack (since the 1st/3rd/6th was meant to be a progression)
I did not consider the idea of having a buffer. That would be more efficient.

3 man teams:
2 chargers: Barbarian 2 (Spirit Lion, Whirling Frenzy, Wolf Totem) / Fighter 1
Feats: Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Improved Trip, Knock-down, Improved Bullrush
1 buffer: Barbarian 2 (Rage, Fast Movement, Wolf Totem) / Crusader 1 (Leading the Attack, Vanguard Strike, 3 other maneuvers, Leading the Charge stance)
Feats: Weapon Focus, Improved Initative, Improved Trip, Knock-down

The buffer rages, moves, and uses one of the two mentioned maneuvers (since you can't charge with a strike)
Accuracy: +9 attack (+3 BAB +4 Str +1 masterwork +1 weapon focus) vs AC 22 = 40%

Then the chargers frenzy and pounce.
Accuracy: +13 or +17 attack(+2 flanking +2 charge +3 BAB +4 Str +1 masterwork +1 weapon focus [40% of +4 maneuver]) vs AC 22 = 60% * 60% + 40% * 80% = 68% accuracy * 2+ attacks
Damage per attack: 68% accuracy * 2x(1d8+6+2) = 17 damage per attack
Number of attacks: 2 + 2 * 68% accuracy * Trip accuracy ~= 3
Damage per turn: 17 damage per attack * ~3 attacks per turn = ~51 damage per turn

Now for power attack calculations. In both cases (with or without the manuever hitting) the calculator suggested a full Power Attack.
Accuracy: +10 or +14 attack(-3 Power Attack +2 flanking +2 charge +3 BAB +4 Str +1 masterwork +1 weapon focus [40% of +4 maneuver]) vs AC 22 = 60% * 45% + 40% * 65% = 53% accuracy * 2+ attacks
Damage per attack: 53% accuracy * 2x(1d8+6+2+6) ~= 19.5 damage per attack
Number of attacks: 2 + 2 * 53% accuracy * Trip accuracy ~= 3
Damage per turn: 19.5 damage per attack * ~3 attacks per turn = ~58.5 damage per turn

Now if we scrap the mount and change the weapon
Accuracy: +10 or +14 attack(-3 Power Attack +2 flanking +2 charge +3 BAB +4 Str +1 masterwork +1 weapon focus [40% of +4 maneuver]) vs AC 22 = 60% * 45% + 40% * 65% = 53% accuracy * 2+ attacks
Damage per attack: 53% accuracy * 2d6+6+2+6 ~= 11 damage per attack
Number of attacks: 2 + 2 * 53% accuracy * Trip accuracy ~= 3
Damage per turn: ~11 damage per attack * ~3 attacks per turn = ~33 damage per turn

I kept the masterwork weapons since 3rd level NPCs should have masterwork weapons by then.

[Matticussama]

If you want a mounted charger on the cheap in order to get the x2 lance damage you can always have them riding Donkeys that have been trained for riding in combat (DC 20 Handle Animal). That cuts your cost significantly while still allowing for mounted troops; Donkeys are only 8GB each. Assuming the BBEG has a couple of Rangers or Druids (or anyone else with Handle Animal) that can train them for riding in combat, it can provide a nice low budget mounted force.

[Firechanter]

To be more specific, the 26 strength top end version would have +8 from strength, +2 from BAB, -2 from whirling frenzy, and then you also get a +2 if you're charging, adding up to +10 on a charge, and +8 otherwise. That's about what I would reasonably expect out of a 2nd level character.

Waitwaitwaitwait, stop right there. "Reasonably Expect"? You seriously "reasonably" expect a Str 26 from a Level 2 character? So are all melees automatically Orc Barbarians in your game? How does anyone ever survive when any melee opponent does ~20 damage per hit from level 1?

What you can _reasonably_ expect from a Level 2 Character is maybe a Str 18, plus Rage bonus if it's a Barb, finito.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Waitwaitwaitwait, stop right there. "Reasonably Expect"? You seriously "reasonably" expect a Str 26 from a Level 2 character? So are all Barbarians automatically Orcs in your game? How does anyone ever survive when any melee opponent does ~20 damage per hit from level 1?

What you can _reasonably_ expect from a Level 2 Character is maybe a Str 18, plus Rage bonus if it's a Barb, finito.

Agreed. If that's what normal melee NPCs look like i'm playing something with natural flight. Something that has no reason to ever get near melee.

Honestly, anything with reasonable strength and a twohanded weapon can be a threat to your party if they have the numbers. Vary it a little with some ranged attackers too so they're not taken out by a single BFC spell. Slings are cheap if they can't afford shortbows. Bolas and nets can make an encounter more interesting, too.
Throwing a bunch of uberchargers at them just turns the encounter into a casino.

If you're really tight with money a bunch of barbarians with clubs or quarterstaffs supported by some guys with slings are pretty much as cheap as it gets. Spend what money is there on leather armor and some bolas and nets to make things interesting. Their numbers will make them a threat, especially if every melee fighter starts off with a bola or net for some minor BFC, without having your whole party oneshotted by some unlucky die rolls.

[eggynack]

Waitwaitwaitwait, stop right there. "Reasonably Expect"? You seriously "reasonably" expect a Str 26 from a Level 2 character? So are all melees automatically Orc Barbarians in your game? How does anyone ever survive when any melee opponent does ~20 damage per hit from level 1?
I mostly just meant that the character in question has accuracy that isn't particularly below average, and which is actually likely above average.

[HMS Invincible]

Agreed. If that's what normal melee NPCs look like i'm playing something with natural flight. Something that has no reason to ever get near melee.

Honestly, anything with reasonable strength and a twohanded weapon can be a threat to your party if they have the numbers. Vary it a little with some ranged attackers too so they're not taken out by a single BFC spell. Slings are cheap if they can't afford shortbows. Bolas and nets can make an encounter more interesting, too.
Throwing a bunch of uberchargers at them just turns the encounter into a casino.

If you're really tight with money a bunch of barbarians with clubs or quarterstaffs supported by some guys with slings are pretty much as cheap as it gets. Spend what money is there on leather armor and some bolas and nets to make things interesting. Their numbers will make them a threat, especially if every melee fighter starts off with a bola or net for some minor BFC, without having your whole party oneshotted by some unlucky die rolls.

Ooooh. It's starting to come together. Now I can lower it to a more reasonable lvl 2 peasants. The core team is 4 barbarian human refugees with wep focus and exiotic weapon proficiency. The net and bola guys will have to be hiding due to their short range.
It goes range touch net into range touch bolas. If net hits then the ac drops by 2. 2 bah 2 str 2 rage 1 wep focus agaist touch ac. Next the crusader/barbs on donkeys does a double move into a vanguard strike. Same +7 attack along with +1 high ground bonus for being mounted. Another 2 for being prone. Combo ends with a charge lancer +13 or 14 to attack. 2d8 +8 dmg. Avg is 17 damage.

[Firechanter]

BTW, why the extremely low budget? I mean, I hear you they are refugees and all, but the fact they couldn't take their household belongings with them wherever they fled from does not really need to affect their personal gear?
In short, just give them NPC wealth - which would be 2000GP per level 2 character. Keep in mind that NPC gear is potential PC loot, and the PCs need the treasure. Besides, it sucks to battle through a hard fight and then only find some used toothbrushes and lemon shells as loot.

[sleepyphoenixx]

BTW, why the extremely low budget? I mean, I hear you they are refugees and all, but the fact they couldn't take their household belongings with them wherever they fled from does not really need to affect their personal gear?
In short, just give them NPC wealth - which would be 2000GP per level 2 character. Keep in mind that NPC gear is potential PC loot, and the PCs need the treasure. Besides, it sucks to battle through a hard fight and then only find some used toothbrushes and lemon shells as loot.

Most of those NPCs probably didn't have their WBL invested in adventuring/fighting gear. Having a bunch of supposed refugees showing up with masterwork full plate and weapons seems a little incongruous.
And depending on your campaign a battle with little or no loot is occassionally necessary to prevent the party from exceeding WBL too much.

[HMS Invincible]

Several reasons. One of the players was getting uppity on how strong he is. I wanted to remind him that this is e6 and he shouldn't treat the commoners so badly. He is the reason they are refugees in the first place. The party just got a 13k windfall so the next few battles will be low treasure. If anything, I'm tempted to make them all lvl 1 but then I'd have to flank to make up for it.

[Slipperychicken]

Something we're not considering here is costs and time associated with training noncombatants to fight. I doubt many refugees flee their homes with levels and feats appropriate for fighting (I'd argue most of them are Commoners or Experts with feats in things like Skill Focus(Profession: Baker)), so we'd probably need retraining to turn these people into useful combatants. I'd go by the retraining rules in PHB and/or the Pathfinder SRD.

In PF, retraining (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining) anything costs [your level*10*number of days required], a class level takes 5 or 7 days (depending on whether the classes have synergy), so each one costs 50 or 70 gold for level 1 characters. A feat takes 5 days, so that means 50 gold to retrain a first level guy's feat.

I believe that using those values in addition to equipment and maintenance expenses (things like food, clothes, payment, medicine, etc) will help to more accurately capture the true costs of recruiting and maintaining armed forces in 3.5 and pathfinder.

[HMS Invincible]

Something we're not considering here is costs and time associated with training noncombatants to fight. I doubt many refugees flee their homes with levels and feats appropriate for fighting (I'd argue most of them are Commoners or Experts with feats in things like Skill Focus(Profession: Baker)), so we'd probably need retraining to turn these people into useful combatants. I'd go by the retraining rules in PHB and/or the Pathfinder SRD.

In PF, retraining (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/more-character-options/retraining) anything costs [your level*10*number of days required], a class level takes 5 or 7 days (depending on whether the classes have synergy), so each one costs 50 or 70 gold for level 1 characters. A feat takes 5 days, so that means 50 gold to retrain a first level guy's feat.

I believe that using those values in addition to equipment and maintenance expenses (things like food, clothes, payment, medicine, etc) will help to more accurately capture the true costs of recruiting and maintaining armed forces in 3.5 and pathfinder.
Which is why I wanted low levels, and minimal fancy equipment. Our current set of barbarian1/crusaders1 are pretty cheap at 200 gold a pop. They all don't have to be crusaders, I just did that so my DM notes could be simplified. Barb1/Warrior1 works just as well. Crusader 1/Barb1 is a bit pricier, but you can see why I'm against spending money on mounts and masterwork weapons. If I could find something to replace the vanguard strike maneuver +4 to attacks, I'd happily ditch them. Any suggestions?

[Feint's End]

But how are they poor refugees with 200 g a pop? That's at least enough to get you somewhere for a few months (if you have a simple lifestyle).

Why not give them an allied somewhat stronger cleric to buff them with bless before combat. Then make them whirling frenzy barbarians (retrained) and give them some dogs to flank. That would make for a very low value group with decent damage and to-hit. (maybe make them commoners 1 / barbarians 1?)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What race are the refugees? Could they be Centaurs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/centaur.htm)? Those can deal double damage when charging with a lance, and they should be able to take feats as though they have Mounted Combat (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/inevitable.htm#zelekhut).

Centaur Charger
Size/Type: Large Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 4d8+8 (26 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +3 studded leather barding, +3 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+12
Attack: Lance +7 melee (2d6+6, 20/x3) or Javelin +5 ranged (1d8+4)
Full Attack: Lance +7 melee (2d6+6, 20/x3) and 2 hooves +2 melee (1d6+2); or Javelin +5 ranged (1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft., 10 ft. with lance
Special Attacks: Spirited Charge (feat)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +3, Move Silently +4, Spot +3, Survival +2
Feats: Ride-By Attack, Spirited Charge
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary, company (5-8), troop (8-18 plus 1 leader of 2nd-5th level), or tribe (20-150 plus 30% noncombatants plus 10 3rd-level sergeants, 5 5th-level lieutenants, and 1 leader of 5th-9th level)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard, large lance, five large javelins.
Alignment: Usually neutral good
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +2

Spirited Charge: Lance +9 melee, (x3) 6d6+18, or critical hit (x3+x3=x5) for 10d6+30.

Note that centaurs normally have a bow worth 600 gp, the lance and javelins combined are the same price as their standard longsword and their barding is 100 gp, so the above gear is 500 gp lower than normal for this creature. They're automatically proficient with whatever type of armor they're described as wearing. If you want to make them extra mean, say their upper half looks like that of an Orc instead of a Human, and give them +4 Str and -2 Int, Wis, and Cha.

Otherwise I'd use Human Cloistered Cleric 1/ Lion Spirit Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/ Warblade 2 with studded leather armor and a Greathorn Minotaur Greathammer (MMIV). Cleric gets Chaos Devotion, Knowledge Devotion, and the Wrath domain, with spontaneous domain casting in PH2 for Wrath. Feats are EWP, Cobalt Rage, and Reckless Rage, get ranks in Kn: Local which Knowledge Devotion uses for Humanoids and be sure to also get the Collector of Stories skill trick in CS for a +5 to that. With Str 16 (15 +1 at 4th) and Whirling Frenzy+Cobalt Rage+Reckless Rage (Str 22) and Knowledge Devotion for only a +1 and not counting Chaos Devotion and casting Rhino's Rush and initiating Battle Leader's Charge, they'll charge for +12 to hit for (x2) 2d12+42, or crit on 19-20/x4 (x5) for 5d12+105, or two hits at +10 each, same x2 damage on the first attack and the second at 1d12+21, or crit on 19-20/x4 for 4d12+84.

[Mato]

What you probably want (mount is free, target 20ish damage)
No-race-specified paladin 6
Feats: mounted combat, ride-by attack, spirited charge.
@18 str and a lance, +12 melee (4d8+24)
50% chance to hit AC 22 for 21/round on average.
Costs 10gp.

For broke
Dragonborn(wings) water orc fighter 6
Feats: Battle jump, power attack, headlong rush, improved sunder, leap attack, weapon focus, weapon specialization, shock trooper.
@24 str & +1 valorous halberd, +17 melee (5d10+185).
75% chance to hit AC 22 for 159.375/round on average, because why not. :p
Costs 8,310gp.

[Slipperychicken]

If I could find something to replace the vanguard strike maneuver +4 to attacks, I'd happily ditch them. Any suggestions?

The enemies could always go the historical route for cheap soliders: trade quality for quantity, look for other force multipliers (such as cover, reach, high ground, fortifications, and surprise), and/or have the cheap militiamen serving as support for the elite, professional units which have the training and equipment to survive in melee.

If I wanted to turn civilians into cheap nonmagical troops who could annoy PCs without giving them much loot? I'd probably make a number of them slingers or javelin-skirmishers (using a free simple weapon, cheap/free ammunition, staggering their formation ~10ft apart, still getting to add strength to damage, and running away before the PCs get too close), and others would be spearmen (two-handing reach weapons like a Longspear or Bill, readying attacks against anyone who gets into their reach, making the occasional disarm attempt, surrounding/isolating the PCs if possible, and taking every AoO that comes their way). Those guys would probably do poorly on their own in the open (going down in 1 hit and relying on natural 20s to hit the higher-AC opponents), but may accomplish more by doing things like readying actions to interrupt spellcasting, using Aid Another to boost each others' attack bonuses, making disarm/grapple attempts, and/or helping to wear the PCs' resources down before the regular soldiers and cavalry come in fresh with full hp and good attack bonuses to 'clean up'.

Additionally, you generally try not to put your untrained guys into melee anyway, preferring that they stay atop walls, behind cover, or along with more competent units to keep them safe. For those who aren't even fit to hold a crossbow or use a sling, you might keep a number of them doing logistical work (things like digging ditches, moving supplies, building defensive structures, etc) so your regulars have more time and energy for fighting.



Most importantly, it really is your call, to do what is needed to strike the balance between fun encounters with versimilitude. It's hardly a crime to take some liberties with the fiction, particularly if the alternative is putting the players through a boring slog of 100 sling-wielding commoners. As a player, I usually don't worry much about this sort of thing unless it gets really egregious (i.e. civilians trained to level 7 in four days, who come at me with optimized builds).

[Gwendol]

Half-orc or orc chargers: Barb X, headlong rush, PA, etc. You need to stack the 2x damage modifiers as low level NPC's will have a hard time hitting their mark facing a 22 AC. They will likely not be able to PA for much.

[HMS Invincible]

Half-orc or orc chargers: Barb X, headlong rush, PA, etc. You need to stack the 2x damage modifiers as low level NPC's will have a hard time hitting their mark facing a 22 AC. They will likely not be able to PA for much.

Sorry, headlong rush is 4 bab.

So now we have a core team of 4 that sets up the charge and a logistical team of 12 commoners that will prep the battlefield and be armed with cross bows. It still maintains the feel. Since Orc is so popular I could change the charger into a lvl 1 warrior. Changes 1 bab for 2 or 3 str bonus. I could possibly drop crusader but then I'd need the rarly heard water Orc stats.

[Mato]

but then I'd need the rarly heard water Orc stats.
Have a link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/elementalRacialVariants.htm#waterOrcs) then. :)

[Gwendol]

Reckless charge trades 4 AC for +4 to hit and requires only BAB +1. That should be enough for them to be a credible threat.

[HMS Invincible]

Reckless charge trades 4 AC for +4 to hit and requires only BAB +1. That should be enough for them to be a credible threat.

Ty. Now we. 4 human whirling barbs level 1
All with wep focus and donkey mounts. 1 has exiotic wep net, 1 bolas.
+6 attack range touch net
Same for bolas into trip.
Then a donkey with lancer moves into flanking and or aid another.
Last man charges at +8 to 12 attack, frenzied means 2 attacks with lance on a charge. 2d8 + 8 / 2d8+8. Avg 34 damage but with 45 % miss chance each. The 12 commoners prep the battlefield and provide skingssupport at +0 1d4

Conservative estimate st 400 Gp total.

[Zaq]

Actually, is Pounce usable while you're mounted? I seem to remember that it's not, but I may be totally full of it. Maybe I'm confusing it with the errata that says that Scouts don't get Skirmish while mounted (which still kind of pisses me off—totally an unnecessary nerf). Anyone know for certain?

[HMS Invincible]

Donkeys only bite and refuse unless as a last resort. :(