Way of the shadow monk ? How has it been going?

[CyberThread]

Has anyone here been using the class, in such a way? How ar eyou finding it playing?

[Turalisj]

Haven't actually started playing yet, but it looks like way of shadow wood elf monk is one of the best scouts in the game. Excellent stealth abilities, at will shadow jumping, and fast movement. Damage potential doesn't seem that great, but then it looks like we're back to the 3.5 way of warriors getting no damage increase while mages get higher and higher damage.

[CyberThread]

Attacks are a class feature now , instead of base BAB, so they have that.


I am curious, I guess with a criminal background, you can lock pick and traps like a normal rogue, am just curious if just a high def survivor instead of an offensive tank.

Human/Wood elf , the best races for it you think?

[Demonic Spoon]

Haven't actually started playing yet, but it looks like way of shadow wood elf monk is one of the best scouts in the game. Excellent stealth abilities, at will shadow jumping, and fast movement. Damage potential doesn't seem that great, but then it looks like we're back to the 3.5 way of warriors getting no damage increase while mages get higher and higher damage.
WotS monk has all the stuff the normal monk has (which isn't exactly a damage machine, but isn't terrible), and it gains advantage on attack rolls when coming out of shadow jump. I'd imagine that this could be exploited pretty heavily in a night or otherwise dark encounter.

[Yagyujubei]

actually I think WotS monk is gonna excel at battlefield control. with half elf/monk movement and shadow walk you can get pretty much anywhere you want to be on the battlefield, and with mobility you can move around attacking multiple targets without worrying about OA's. Add to that your 4 attacks and stunning strike you can incapacitate huge numbers of enemies over the course of each encounter.

[MustacheFart]

WotS monk has all the stuff the normal monk has (which isn't exactly a damage machine, but isn't terrible), and it gains advantage on attack rolls when coming out of shadow jump. I'd imagine that this could be exploited pretty heavily in a night or otherwise dark encounter.

Not even just Shadow Jump. They can cast Darkness for 2 Ki. So correct me if I am wrong but they could get advantage on all attacks while within their Darkness.

Honestly, I know the stunning strike lockdown is very good but depending on encounter I could see a monk basically using his k to throw up darkness in a few locations then teleporting around to basically attack anyone caught inside/near with little risk.

According to RAW, you could cast the darkness on something on your person. Then you could get a free teleport up to 15 feet away (the emanation of your darkness). Unfortunately, darkness is only a 15 foot cube so that's why it would be limited in this way but hey free moving advantage for 2 ki and extra movement via teleport. Enemies would also have disadvantage at hitting you, right?

Damn, wait a minute. I just double-checked. You can't see through your own magical darkness can you? Lame. Well that throws the kabash on it. What level do Warlocks get the ability to see through darkness?

[Jacob.Tyr]

Not even just Shadow Jump. They can cast Darkness for 2 Ki. So correct me if I am wrong but they could get advantage on all attacks while within their Darkness.

Honestly, I know the stunning strike lockdown is very good but depending on encounter I could see a monk basically using his k to throw up darkness in a few locations then teleporting around to basically attack anyone caught inside/near with little risk.

According to RAW, you could cast the darkness on something on your person. Then you could get a free teleport up to 15 feet away (the emanation of your darkness). Unfortunately, darkness is only a 15 foot cube so that's why it would be limited in this way but hey free moving advantage for 2 ki and extra movement via teleport. Enemies would also have disadvantage at hitting you, right?

Damn, wait a minute. I just double-checked. You can't see through your own magical darkness can you? Lame. Well that throws the kabash on it. What level do Warlocks get the ability to see through darkness?
Step 1: Obtain 16' of rope.
Step 2: Tie one end to a tiny rock
Step 3: Tie the other end to your belt.
Step 4: Darkness on the rock
Step 5: Shadowstep around the rock, dragging it behind you when needed. Maybe swing it ahead of you with your hips and use that to teleport forward?

[Yagyujubei]

no prob just dip two levels into warlock to grab devil sight and armor of shadows

[Edge of Dreams]

no prob just dip two levels into warlock to grab devil sight and armor of shadows

Devil's Sight is great but Armor of Shadows won't stack with Unarmored Defense. You either get 13+Dex AC from Mage Armor OR 10+Dex+Wis AC from Monk, not both. If your Wis mod is at or greater than +3, the Monk feature is strictly better because it gives just as good AC and can't be hit by Dispel Magic.

[Yagyujubei]

true, there are plenty of other great gets though....and damn now I'm really considering dipping 6 into monk on my warlock just for shadow walk lol, I'll need to number crunch to see if I'm not gimping myself too much.

[MustacheFart]

true, there are plenty of other great gets though....and damn now I'm really considering dipping 6 into monk on my warlock just for shadow walk lol, I'll need to number crunch to see if I'm not gimping myself too much.

If you're out to play a warlock I think doing that would gimp you too much.

However, if you're out to play a shadow hand monk then 2 levels in warlock just seems like a very easy drop in the bucket. I was just reading warlock and trying to justify the 3rd level of warlock for a benefit from your pact (hey a shadow monk of cathulu lol. Yes please) but none of them were good enough that I could justify it. They all seemed to just spread the build out too thin.

I need to roll up a backup character for an upcoming campaign. I am totally going to roll up a Wood Elf Warlock 2/ Shadow Monk X build. Should be fun as hell in combat and out of combat I can use Minor Illusion to keep me entertained. Kind of want to play this build over my Barb 3/Elemental Monk X build I had been planning to play.

[CyberThread]

Depends on what you doing you may as wellgo tthird Level for the Book of shadow benefits and its corrsponding invocation for all those rituals.

It seems the only feats that matter is alert?

[Yagyujubei]

well for WotS monk a natural break point seems to be 14. Opportunist is pretty crappy for a capstone to the path, and you dont really need empty body as a WotS monk...you'd be missing out on 1d10 strikes though...

taking 6 in warlock does get you access to 3 invocations and 2 3rd level spells slots though. and if you take they archfey path you would get blink and misty escape which are nice and fit with the theme.

or you could take the two in warlock to grab devil sight and then go 4 into rogue for the assassinate.

[MustacheFart]

well for WotS monk a natural break point seems to be 14. Opportunist is pretty crappy for a capstone to the path, and you dont really need empty body as a WotS monk...you'd be missing out on 1d10 strikes though...

taking 6 in warlock does get you access to 3 invocations and 2 3rd level spells slots though. and if you take they archfey path you would get blink and misty escape which are nice and fit with the theme.

or you could take the two in warlock to grab devil sight and then go 4 into rogue for the assassinate.

Or, you could go fighter and pick up action surge for some burst fun.

After reading assassinate, that would go very nicely with barbarian.

You could pretty much make an ubercharger build:

Half-Orc Totem Warrior Barbarian 14 (bear, eagle, eagle/wolf)/Rogue 4/Fighter 2. You would have advantage to Initiative rolls and on surprise rounds you could either fly/run to your enemy and automatically crit, if you hit, which is likely as you have advantage on attack rolls. Then from Half Orc and barbarian you would add 3 extra dice of damage to the existing crit damage. If you still need a bit of oomph pop an action surge and go for round 2.

Sorry off topic but just was too nutty to not mention.

[Yagyujubei]

something like this totally feels ninja-esque with the addition of the warlock spells and a familiar(A crow feels the most ninja-y to me), but the curve seems pretty bad sadly. you would be kinda gimped most of the way up to 20.

1(m1). Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts (d4)
2(w1). Otherworldly Patron: Archfey, Pact Magic, Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward, 1(1) spell slot
3(w2). Invocations: Devils Sight, Mask of Many Faces, 2(1) Spell Slots
4(w3). Pact boon: Pact of the Chain, Fey Presence, 2(2) Spell slots
5(m2). Ki, Unarmored Movement(10)
6(m3). Monastic Tradition: Way of the Shadow, Shadow Arts, Deflect Missiles
7(m4). Slow Fall, Ability score/feat
8(m5). Extra Attack, Stunning Strike, Martial Arts(d6)
9(m6). Ki-empowered Strikes, Shadow Step, Movement(15ft)
10(w4). Ability score/feat
11(m7). Evasion, Stillness of mind
12(m8). Ability score/feat
13(w5). Invocation: Voice of the Chain Master, 2(3) Spell slots
14(w6). Misty Escape
15(m9). Unarmored movement improvement
16(m10). Purity of body, Movement(20ft)
17(m11).Cloak of shadows, Martial arts(d8)
18(m12). Ability score/feat
19(m13). Tongue of sun and moon
20(m14). Diamond Soul, Movement(25ft)

Ki Moves(14 ki):
Flurry of blows
Patient Defense
Step of wind
Stunning strike
Darkness
Darkvision
Pass without Trace
Silence

Spells:
c - Minor Illusion, poison spray, blade ward
1 - faerie fire, sleep, hex, expeditious retreat
2 - calm emotions, phantasmal force, mirror Image, hold person
3 - blink, plant growth, vampiric touch, hypnotic pattern

[CyberThread]

Think of the fun you could have with an elf monk baddie.

Hide in the fIrst fire an arrow the shadow step away and fire again alwAys bOuncing around.

You know they would make a really fun archer.

[MustacheFart]

something like this totally feels ninja-esque with the addition of the warlock spells and a familiar(A crow feels the most ninja-y to me), but the curve seems pretty bad sadly. you would be kinda gimped most of the way up to 20.

1(m1). Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts (d4)
2(w1). Otherworldly Patron: Archfey, Pact Magic, Eldritch Blast, Blade Ward, 1(1) spell slot
3(w2). Invocations: Devils Sight, Mask of Many Faces, 2(1) Spell Slots
4(w3). Pact boon: Pact of the Chain, Fey Presence, 2(2) Spell slots
5(m2). Ki, Unarmored Movement(10)
6(m3). Monastic Tradition: Way of the Shadow, Shadow Arts, Deflect Missiles
7(m4). Slow Fall, Ability score/feat
8(m5). Extra Attack, Stunning Strike, Martial Arts(d6)
9(m6). Ki-empowered Strikes, Shadow Step, Movement(15ft)
10(w4). Ability score/feat
11(m7). Evasion, Stillness of mind
12(m8). Ability score/feat
13(w5). Invocation: Voice of the Chain Master, 2(3) Spell slots
14(w6). Misty Escape
15(m9). Unarmored movement improvement
16(m10). Purity of body, Movement(20ft)
17(m11).Cloak of shadows, Martial arts(d8)
18(m12). Ability score/feat
19(m13). Tongue of sun and moon
20(m14). Diamond Soul, Movement(25ft)

Ki Moves(14 ki):
Flurry of blows
Patient Defense
Step of wind
Stunning strike
Darkness
Darkvision
Pass without Trace
Silence

Spells:
c - Minor Illusion, poison spray, blade ward
1 - faerie fire, sleep, hex, expeditious retreat
2 - calm emotions, phantasmal force, mirror Image, hold person
3 - blink, plant growth, vampiric touch, hypnotic pattern

See that's the same issue I am facing with my Barb/Monk idea. It seems like the curve is going to kill me. 3 levels behind on extra attack. 3 levels behind on ability boost/feat.

[CyberThread]

Id go more with old one for that telpathy and then pact of the book for more of those spells.

Assaigns cliche has always been taking the time to do things properly. Having access to rituals of all spell lists dOes sound super Sexy.

[Yagyujubei]

Id go more with old one for that telpathy and then pact of the book for more of those spells.

Assaigns cliche has always been taking the time to do things properly. Having access to rituals of all spell lists dOes sound super Sexy.

well to be fair I was making choices for flavor more than power gaming. To me the image of a ninja having a familiar crow or hawk or cat or what have you, that can scout for it and then with the invocation you could use it to communicate and literally see through its eyes. It just seemed to fit.

[CyberThread]

What are the top feats for them though, Alert and ...I don't know .... .. Magical Intiante?

[pso_zeldaphreak]

Attacks are a class feature now , instead of base BAB, so they have that.


I am curious, I guess with a criminal background, you can lock pick and traps like a normal rogue, am just curious if just a high def survivor instead of an offensive tank.

Human/Wood elf , the best races for it you think?

This is exactly what I did, Wood Elf Shadow Monk with Criminal (burglar) background. Tanking doesn't work really well, even though I have the same AC as the fighter, mostly because I don't have nearly as much HP.

However, I do hold my own in combat, and my ki-spells have come in handy (silenced a wizard, who had no spells ready without verbal components. Nailed him with a handaxe, then he got speared by the fighter).

Minor Illusion is always fun too.

[CyberThread]

This is exactly what I did, Wood Elf Shadow Monk with Criminal (burglar) background. Tanking doesn't work really well, even though I have the same AC as the fighter, mostly because I don't have nearly as much HP.

However, I do hold my own in combat, and my ki-spells have come in handy (silenced a wizard, who had no spells ready without verbal components. Nailed him with a handaxe, then he got speared by the fighter).

Minor Illusion is always fun too.


I know and love it. With alert and how defensive the class is. Do you think dungeon delver is overkill?

[pso_zeldaphreak]

I know and love it. With alert and how defensive the class is. Do you think dungeon delver is overkill?

Yeah, I don't think Dungeon Delver will be nearly as useful as, say, Alert and Mobile. Alert fits the theme really well, in addition to being crazy useful. Mobile really helps bring together the WoS abilities into the standard monk ones. Multiple attacks, moving in and out of reach, especially combined with the reaction attack from WoS, means you can deal out your battlefield control abilities (stunning fist!), then get in position by the fighter to get free hits in off your turn.

And with the unarmored AC, its not even that bad of an idea to get back in close like that.


At least, that's my plan. I've only just hit level 4 and taken Alert, so we'll so how this goes.

[Malifice]

So annoying you cant Sneak attack with Unarmed Strikes.

Just screaming out for a Shadow Monk/ Assassin.

[hymer]

So annoying you cant Sneak attack with Unarmed Strikes.

Just screaming out for a Shadow Monk/ Assassin.

Well, what exactly are monk weapons? If any of them is finesse, you can do it.

[Malifice]

Well, what exactly are monk weapons? If any of them is finesse, you can do it.

Daggers and Shortwords.

Still, Im housruling fists are fine. Monks can use Dex to hit with them (athough they are not technically Finesse weapons).

Not game shattering to make that houserule I reckon.

[Falka]

I thought you could Sneak Attack with any weapon that uses Dexterity for damage. At least, I allow Sneak Attack with bows.

[Yuki Akuma]

I thought you could Sneak Attack with any weapon that uses Dexterity for damage. At least, I allow Sneak Attack with bows.

It specifically says a melee weapon with the finesse property, or a ranged weapon. So bows are fine.

You don't need to actually use Dexterity in the attack roll to get SA. A high-Strength Fighter/Rogue still gets to sneak attack after using Strength to hit someone with a rapier.

[MustacheFart]

It kind of makes sense. Sneak Attack is supposed to be exploiting an enemies guard in order to hit a more vital location. With people being covered in armor I would think you'd need something with more penetration than a fist to see any benefit from striking that vulnerable location.

You can still use monk weapons however it just means you wouldn't be able to do flurry + SA.

[CyberThread]

What have you spent your ki points lately on

[Yagyujubei]

it should be fine to sneak attack. unarmored combat give you the dice increase on simple weapons so just use dagger stats, re-flavor it as a kunai or claws or something, Then sneak attack with the weapon on your first attack, unarmed with your second, and flurry for 3rd and 4th. that should work I would think RAW and it wouldn't change the dmg at all since the weapon and the fist will be rolling the same dice anyway

[CyberThread]

I wish a free grapple on an unarmed strike had been a class feature. Monks have no point taking bar room brawler

[pso_zeldaphreak]

What have you spent your ki points lately on

Silence, which allowed us to kill a wizard during the surprise round, patient defense for the Dodge twice, when too close to an ogre, Step of the Wind in order to take out Glass Staff (needed to move 85 feet, including a 30 foot long jump, in order to cut him off from escape).

Otherwise, flurry like mad. Dark vision doesn't help because wood elf, and pass without trace hasn't been needed yet. Darkness I'm wary of, mostly because I can't see through it.

[MustacheFart]

Darkness I'm wary of, mostly because I can't see through it.

Simple. Grab two levels of Warlock to pick up Devil's Sight. Also get a lot of other good stuff.

[pso_zeldaphreak]

Simple. Grab two levels of Warlock to pick up Devil's Sight. Also get a lot of other good stuff.

I had considered that, but I don't think I can justify those levels to the character.

[Naanomi]

Monk (shadow) 14/Rogue (assassin 3)/Warlock (whatever) 3 sounds like a very flavorful ninja build to me; as media-ninjas often 'seek dark sources of power'

[pso_zeldaphreak]

Monk (shadow) 14/Rogue (assassin 3)/Warlock (whatever) 3 sounds like a very flavorful ninja build to me; as media-ninjas often 'seek dark sources of power'

Yes, but my character doesn't feel the type; plus our group is single classing, so I'll keep the trend.

Edit: Plus, ultimate combat is reserved for our fighter. I'm more into control where applicable, and skillmonkey.

[MustacheFart]

Plus, ultimate combat is reserved for our fighter.
Heh, I've never bought into that belief. If a fighter wants to be top dog he has to earn it. It's not granted based on namesake.

Btw 2 in warlock to see through darkness would totally grant control benefits. Now you can cast darkness to completely hide what your doing or disrupt the enemy.

[CyberThread]

Level 6 Shadow Monk +15 speed

Wood Elf +5 Speed

Mobile +10



60 Feet Speed , Shadow Jump is 60ft .


Jump into a shadow, walk briskly for another 60 feet, and then stunning palm and incapcitate the caster :D

[pso_zeldaphreak]

Heh, I've never bought into that belief. If a fighter wants to be top dog he has to earn it. It's not granted based on namesake.

Btw 2 in warlock to see through darkness would totally grant control benefits. Now you can cast darkness to completely hide what your doing or disrupt the enemy.

I don't mean to say I'm gimping myself for his sake, but I don't want really feel a Warlock multiclass is appropriate for this character. Rogue, I'd consider. But I don't have my book at the moment, and I'm not sure that would be a beneficial dip, haha.

[pso_zeldaphreak]

Level 6 Shadow Monk +15 speed

Wood Elf +5 Speed

Mobile +10



60 Feet Speed , Shadow Jump is 60ft .


Jump into a shadow, walk briskly for another 60 feet, and then stunning palm and incapcitate the caster :D

Isn't the Shadow Jump an action though? Can't do all that in one turn :P

[Demonic Spoon]

bonus action. It also gives you advantage on the next attack roll you make that turn.

[CyberThread]

You are correct, thank you for catching that.

[Demonic Spoon]

You are correct, thank you for catching that.

As I mentioned, shadow jump is a bonus action. You can totally do all of that in one turn.

[MustacheFart]

I don't mean to say I'm gimping myself for his sake, but I don't want really feel a Warlock multiclass is appropriate for this character. Rogue, I'd consider. But I don't have my book at the moment, and I'm not sure that would be a beneficial dip, haha.

Ah that's understandable. Though, if it's because it doesn't feel very "ninja-y" or "roguish" then think of it like this:

Your clan has presented you with the clan tome as recognition for your latest deeds and growth within the clan. Now that you are ready you may open the book to add your name (in blood) to the list of your elders and ancestors. Doing such gives you great power through darkness itself!

Pretty much fits any anime ninja or old "kung fu movie" ninja.

Assuming my DM doesn't hang up on it that's what I may play very soon.

[Malifice]

It kind of makes sense. Sneak Attack is supposed to be exploiting an enemies guard in order to hit a more vital location. With people being covered in armor I would think you'd need something with more penetration than a fist to see any benefit from striking that vulnerable location.

You can still use monk weapons however it just means you wouldn't be able to do flurry + SA.

When your fists are hitting as hard as daggers at 1st level, and bastard swords at 20th...

[hymer]

When your fists are hitting as hard as daggers at 1st level, and bastard swords at 20th...

For what it's worth, they're still dealing bludgeoning damage. No finesse weapon does. I think only slings can deliver sneak attacks with a bludgeoning attack, and that's probably more to make a simple rule.

[Malifice]

For what it's worth, they're still dealing bludgeoning damage. No finesse weapon does. I think only slings can deliver sneak attacks with a bludgeoning attack, and that's probably more to make a simple rule.

Which annoys me for different reasons.

I'd like to see the Sap return as a sneak attack weapon. Its pretty iconic IMO.

I.e I allow Saps (Clubs) to be used for sneak attack (despite not being Finesse weapons).

[Thecrazypieguy]

Daggers and Shortwords.

Still, Im housruling fists are fine. Monks can use Dex to hit with them (athough they are not technically Finesse weapons).

Not game shattering to make that houserule I reckon.

Well if they are Monks then under the Martial arts class feature they can use Dex for their unarmed strikes and would be able sneak attack with them.

[Demonic Spoon]

Well if they are Monks then under the Martial arts class feature they can use Dex for their unarmed strikes and would be able sneak attack with them.

Sneak attack requires the finesse weapon trait, not using Dex as the attack ability.

That said, it seems pretty likely that this was unintentional and I can't imagine a WotS monk / rogue being horribly overpowered, so I'd allow it.

[Thecrazypieguy]

Sneak attack requires the finesse weapon trait, not using Dex as the attack ability.

That said, it seems pretty likely that this was unintentional and I can't imagine a WotS monk / rogue being horribly overpowered, so I'd allow it.

Oh you are right. That is kind of odd that they didn't just say "Monks unarmed strikes are now considered finesse weapons"
Edit: But you are right and it was probably just unintentional.

[MeeposFire]

Sadly it also removes another common thief weapon from the past in the club. Back in the day it was actually be mentioned as a weapon for back stabbing (where it would be used as an example of the mechanic when it was not an actual stab but a clubbing from behind).

[pso_zeldaphreak]

Ah that's understandable. Though, if it's because it doesn't feel very "ninja-y" or "roguish" then think of it like this:

Your clan has presented you with the clan tome as recognition for your latest deeds and growth within the clan. Now that you are ready you may open the book to add your name (in blood) to the list of your elders and ancestors. Doing such gives you great power through darkness itself!

Pretty much fits any anime ninja or old "kung fu movie" ninja.

Assuming my DM doesn't hang up on it that's what I may play very soon.

Ah, but my monk has been separated from his clan/monastery for a long time.

I'll think on it more. The biggest issue I have right now is my book is at home, so I can't read everything on the rrelated classes and ponder it to make a decision, haha.

[TieflingDruid]

Just hit level 6 with my Aasimar Monk. Shadow step is about to become something I do a lot.
Wishing I had multiclassed a little with warlock.
Having both daylight and darkness is a bit fun.
Our group was just invited to a party where we had to leave our weapons and armor at the door. I looked at my hands and laughed. (Currently sporting magic gloves that add 2d4 force damage to every hit.) With extra attack, flurry of blows and stunning strike four hits of up to 19 damage each and then leaving the creature stunned has been pretty epic. :)
I am very much enjoying it. But always on the lookout for improvements and tips.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I played a Shadow Monk from 1-7, dipping Rogue at the end, and it was a blast. The basic Monk chassis is quite good. At low levels you're a surprisingly excellent damage dealer; at mid-levels you get Stunning Strike. Wield a spear or quarterstaff two-handed for respectable base weapon damage at first. Dex and Wis power most of the game's best skills, so you're good there as well. And then... and then you get Shadow Monk, which gives you more utility than anything. Pass Without Trace is grade-A nuts-- at level 20 it's doubling your Stealth bonus; at level 3 it sends your score so far past the bounds of reason that it's just insane. Minor Illusion without material components takes nothing but a gesture, letting you cast it mid-conversation and mid-stealth with virtually no consequence. Really, everything else on that list is incidental, though casting an eight-hour spell (Darkvision) with a short rest resource is fun. Cast it before every short rest if you have the ki points; you lose nothing.

Shadow Step is both phenominal and less good than you'd think. Monks have insane demands on their bonus action; you're leaving a good bit of your offensive or defensive punch on the table every turn you use it. It's a great replacement for Step of the Wind, but you probably would rather attack and then Mobility away. But it's at-will teleport at level 6; if you're not playing with that every thirty seconds I can't help you. Also note that it doesn't require line of effect, or even really line of sight. Peek around a corner with a mirror, then teleport to a new hiding space.

[odigity]

just hit level 6 with my aasimar monk. Shadow step is about to become something i do a lot.
Wishing i had multiclassed a little with warlock.
Having both daylight and darkness is a bit fun.
Our group was just invited to a party where we had to leave our weapons and armor at the door. I looked at my hands and laughed. (currently sporting magic gloves that add 2d4 force damage to every hit.) with extra attack, flurry of blows and stunning strike four hits of up to 19 damage each and then leaving the creature stunned has been pretty epic. :)
i am very much enjoying it. But always on the lookout for improvements and tips.

That thread was over two years old.

[Naanomi]

Warlock dip on a rogue/monk 'ninja' build is just the inevitable 'forbidden secret techniques'

[odigity]

I thought the forum software prevents anyone from replying to a thread that's been inactive for more then 45 days?

[RaynorReynolds]

See that's the same issue I am facing with my Barb/Monk idea. It seems like the curve is going to kill me. 3 levels behind on extra attack. 3 levels behind on ability boost/feat.

If you are that concerned, then just time your dips differently. I did a monk 6/warlock 2-3/rogue x with Mobile feat at level one and it worked great. You might take Warlock and Rogue levels earlier for hex and sneak attack, but that delays your ASIs and Monk abilities.

[SillyPopeNachos]

4 levels of rogue is nice to stack 2d6 worth of sneak attack with your multiattacks

[odigity]

It constantly amazes me how oblivious people are to context, and especially how many people will respond to a post without reading the thread.

[Maxilian]

It constantly amazes me how oblivious people are to context, and especially how many people will respond to a post without reading the thread.

Hey!

What is your problem with Necromancers?!

Note: A part of me believe is better to necro old threads than create new ones cause many questions and things have been answered a long time ago and there are also some interesting ideas that could be "recovered" from this old threads

[odigity]

Hey!

What is your problem with Necromancers?!

Note: A part of me believe is better to necro old threads than create new ones cause many questions and things have been answered a long time ago and there are also some interesting ideas that could be "recovered" from this old threads

I would agree with that if there was a mechanism for summarizing state along with the threading model. This is actually a tool I've wanted for years, and I'm not sure why no one's built it -- basically a hybrid forum/wiki. The thread is for discussion, because human discussion is linear, but each thread has an associated wikified text area that can be edited (by the OP, or by thread participants, depending on security model), with revision history, where an attempt can be made to concisely summarize the distinct arguments that have been presented or facts gathered.

That way you could consult the state summary to catch up quick, then start posting additional thoughts that haven't been brought up yet.

But I don't want to read through page after page of old comments made by posters who aren't even here to see my response anymore...