Antipaladin 6 or: How to become the Arbiter of Diseases

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

I have had a nice idea to bring some debuffing into melee while not using up many actions. Actually I lied and just checked the Antipaladin descriptions:


At 6th level, an antipaladin adds the following cruelties to the list of those that can be selected.

• Diseased: The target contracts a disease, as if the antipaladin had cast contagion, using his antipaladin level as his caster level.

Free contagion with scaling DC, as part of an melee touch attack AND doing damage at the same time picking from a variety of diseases and having the first disease tick instantly? Yes.


Plague Bringer (Ex): At 3rd level, the powers of darkness make an antipaladin a beacon of corruption and disease. An antipaladin does not take any damage or take any penalty from diseases. He can still contract diseases and spread them to others, but he is otherwise immune to their effects.

Now how to combine that for infinite disease checks that even infect a Dwarven Barbarian in his rage? Maximizing the DC for Corrupting Touch is easy. Pump Cha, Ability Focus and try to debuff checks (possibly rerolls from dual cursed oracle 1?) but how would one infect someone from disease he or she already carries? It's a special attack for any monster but not for the Antipaladin. I refuse to believe the bold part is fluff text. You should be able to cast Hand of Corruption upon yourself, forfeit the Fort save and be a hideously diseased mountain of plague boils.

A bite attack comes to mind but is there a way to do this with more style?

[Spore]

Are there no hard rules on the spreading of (non magical) diseases in combat?

[Yanisa]

Yeah, I can't find anything either, it's all in the DM's court it seems. Also combat might be a bit slow as many diseases take days before they manifest.

Fun fact: Addiction (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs) is a Diseases, so a antipaladin that can spread diseases is the best dealer in town. :smalltongue:

[Vortenger]

Several diseases are spread by contact alone, such zombie rot and slimy doom, so just using ToC on a target should be enough to spread them. You could argue the negative energy damage would work for injury, but it may be stretching credulity. I was looking into this as well for my antipally, but capitalizing on removing fear immunity sounded like too much fun.

[Spore]

Several diseases are spread by contact alone, such zombie rot and slimy doom, so just using ToC on a target should be enough to spread them. You could argue the negative energy damage would work for injury, but it may be stretching credulity. I was looking into this as well for my antipally, but capitalizing on removing fear immunity sounded like too much fun.

You infect people "as if you have cast Contagion". I don't care if you injure them or not. Mundane ways of infection are not of interest here.


Yeah, I can't find anything either, it's all in the DM's court it seems. Also combat might be a bit slow as many diseases take days before they manifest.

Fun fact: Addiction (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs) is a Diseases, so a antipaladin that can spread diseases is the best dealer in town. :smalltongue:

Sadly a 6th level AP has better things to do than deal drugs. Maybe become a drug lord!

[Vortenger]

I was referring to your earlier mention of infecting yourself first and then spreading the diseases. Since your answer reads as kind of hostile, lets break it down.

You should be able to cast Hand of Corruption upon yourself, forfeit the Fort save and be a hideously diseased mountain of plague boils
You can, though you won't look hideous or boiled as you are not affected by the disease personally. You are just a carrier, after all.

...but how would one infect someone from disease he or she already carries?
Like anyone else, by transferring it as normal. As per Contagion, after the initial infection you would then have a regular version of the disease and would not be able to use Contagion's onset or save DC. That is why i suggest contact diseases, injury is debatable since as you mentioned in the OP, you do not have a special attack keyed to trigger the disease in question. (whether that's needed is left unclear in the rules)

Now how to combine that for infinite disease checks...
The list of diseases you can use 'as if casting Contagion' is relatively small and contained in the spell's text. I assume multiple copies of the same disease run afoul of the 'same source doesn't stack' ruling

You infect people "as if you have cast Contagion". I don't care if you injure them or not. Mundane ways of infection are not of interest here.
Oh, really?

Are there no hard rules on the spreading of (non magical) diseases in combat?
I sense a contradiction in the force.

The rules are found here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions) and here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules). (these are the hard rules, such as they are)

Just trying to help, since I just researched this. No need for hostility. Unless you're getting into character already.

[Spore]

Sorry, your point got lost in translation. I guess ToC with a "mundane" disease isn't exactly what you would call infecting a wound. I get what you want to say now. Sorry.




The rules are found here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions) and here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules). (these are the hard rules, such as they are)

Just trying to help, since I just researched this. No need for hostility. Unless you're getting into character already.

Well those rules just state the special attack diseases and do not give a hard ruling in my eyes. I am looking for a way to get diseases efficiently onto my targets. I also get that spreading the disease is irrelevant for combat so I guess I would love to press some charges from villagers for not spreading the bubonic plague in their home town. Be it by infecting rats (I guess Swarms of Infernal Wasps would be AWESOME to spread some vile disease).

Again, sorry for the slight aggression. I thought you wanted to tell me how the ToC Disease Cruelty works again.

The mundane diseases are sadly not combat material (and any sane DM would have his BBEG cured within hours so the disease can't even foil their plans). Then again to enact a plan of getting a diseased hellwasp swarm is more of a cleric thing anyway. Lesser Planar Ally + Contagion should suffice.

It is indeed very sad that things like poison, diseases and other "mundane debuffs" are not utilized more in the game. Even hunger, heat, cold or thirst should play a larger role for PCs (not coming from the DM or the environment).

[Vortenger]

Thanks for the acknowledgment! I agree on all of your points. I wish there was a caveat that allowed for other diseases to be chosen, similar to how Bestow Curse allows for options beyond the base choices. I honestly hoped there was something I was missing that made the trick more combat viable. I've bookmarked the thread in hopes someone else has made it farther down this path. We've reached the culminating point of all I know.

[deuxhero]

I like Crusader’s Fist for ToC optimizating. Being able to attack AND ToC is nice (as a full BAB class you should be making your hit so going from touch AC to normal AC isn't a big loss).



Fun fact: Addiction (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/drugs) is a Diseases, so a antipaladin that can spread diseases is the best dealer in town. :smalltongue:

Unforunatly, it's based on Contagion, which specifies a limited number of possible disease it can inflict.

[Spore]

Unforunatly, it's based on Contagion, which specifies a limited number of possible disease it can inflict.

He can still get high like a kite and then "infect someone". The hard part is infecting someone with "drugs".


I like Crusader’s Fist for ToC optimizating. Being able to attack AND ToC is nice (as a full BAB class you should be making your hit so going from touch AC to normal AC isn't a big loss).

If you were to go for a level of monk then maybe but I wouldn't want to go for a 1d3+ST additional damage and miss a lot more often. Now if the talent would allow this with natural weapons I would love to go for it.