Casters without primary stats

[Mandrake]

Hi!

I've been building a Warlock (and other classes too).

It seems that I might be able to make a "viable" or at least playable Warlock without investing into Charisma at all. If I take spells that don't attack enemies or require a save, the only thing I lose are save bonuses I'm proficient in and, of course, bonuses on skills related to Charisma.

Am I right about this? Do you think you can go all the way to highest levels of a caster class without boosting your casting stat, if you take spells that don't require an attack or a save (e.g. Expeditious Retreat)? Are there enough such spells? Would it be fun to you? Especially for Warlock.

Thanks!

[Eslin]

Definitely not for warlock. Warlock's main attack is eldritch blast (1d10+1d6+cha mod per blast), and both of their methods of doing well with weapons are charisma based as well.

You CAN go charisma-less, but it won't do very well, certainly not as well as you could have done a charisma-less 3.5 warlock.

[Edge of Dreams]

The problem is that you're only left with utility and buff spells to choose from, so you're not going to be nearly as useful in combat. Even the Pact Blade Warlock wants Charisma for the add-cha-to-damage invocation for his weapon attacks.

[Yorrin]

Here's the deal with casters that lack primary stats: it's totally doable. That being said, Warlock is probably not the best choice for that. You're much better off with Cleric or maybe even Wizard if that's specifically what you want to play. Cleric especially has a spell list that supports this and with the right domain you can focus on Str or Dex and be a weapons user who occasionally buffs/heals.

[Eslin]

Alternately you could be a druid and need no stats at all, that works too =P

[Yorrin]

Alternately you could be a druid and need no stats at all, that works too =P

Except that this is 5e, not 3.5. So your Druid will at least want decent Wis and Con, and maybe a splash of Dex.

[Eslin]

Oooooooooor, no wis since the point of this is casters without primary stats, and just spend your time as an animal when in combat.

[Yorrin]

Oooooooooor, no wis since the point of this is casters without primary stats, and just spend your time as an animal when in combat.

And I'm telling you Druid is bad at that. Even Moon Druids get limited wildshapes per rest, and once that wildshape takes enough damage, it's gone. Not only that but wildshapes have sub-par defenses, so you're gonna be going through that hp pretty quickly. You'll want Wis not only to give you more options for buffs beforehand, but it's also a key defensive stat.

[Eslin]

Well no ****, wisdom is great. But please read the title of the thread.

[Yorrin]

Well no ****, wisdom is great. But please read the title of the thread.

You seem to be missing my point, sir. I'm saying Druid is bad as a caster without his primary stat. Upthread I offered up Cleric as the best choice for such a build, since his good options for equipment can effectively tun him into a paladin. All of the other caster classes have class features that get gimped pretty hard without their casting stat.

[Eslin]

I may have missed something, but clerics don't seem to get any bonus attacks (except the wisdom based war domain bonus action ones).

[Seerow]

The problem is that you're only left with utility and buff spells to choose from, so you're not going to be nearly as useful in combat.

That sounds just about perfect for a Gish, though.