low level spell for chilling/freezing water?

[flamewolf393]

I am playing a winter witch that happens to be traveling in a hot climate. I would like her to have a low level spell that can chill water so she can cool off in a bath after a hot day. Or making ice cubes for her drinks. Basic small stuff like that.

::edit::
I also have a single level of oracle if that helps any.

[torrasque666]

ray of frost?

[malonkey1]

Zone of Glacial Cold (Druid 2, Ranger 2, Sorcerer 2, Wizard 2), from Frostburn might be what you want, as long as people don't get too close to you. Alternatively, if you have a metal tub, you could use Chill Metal.

[Hamste]

There is icicle dagger if a first level is ok. Prestidigitation works as well but witchs don't get that. You can get it from being a Gnome, themagical talent trait, the trifler trait or 2200gp for apprentice's cheating gloves which also gives mage hand at will

[nedz]

Energy Substitution (Cold) on Continuous Flame. (Questionable by RAW)

[oxybe]

If you don't mind using up your level 3 slots, This spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/i/ice-spears)is probably more violent then you would hope, but it's a surefire way of getting a lot of ice.

Endure elements is also on the oracle list, so there's that.

If you have access to a level 3 druid, chill metal specifically causes ice to appear around the metal if it is submerged, so just use something like a sheet of copper.

[Shoat]

If it is for comfort and roleplaying only, I'd allow you to just use a level0 spell slot to cool off your drink (as some sort of controlled and less hazardous version of Ray of Frost), but a bath would be a bit much.

As Create Water (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/create-water--2376/) never specifically states the temperature of the created water (it just says that it's like rain water), so in our games we have ruled that it can be made into any range of temperature that would be reasonable for rainwater (lukewarm to cold, but not ice-cold), allowing you to use that for a cooling-off-bath.


Energy Substitution (Cold) on Continuous Flame. (Questionable by RAW)

Not only questionable by RAW, questionable by common sense as well.

Continuous Flame specifically states that it does nothing but look like fire and produce light like fire, thus there is no heat-damage to be substituted by cold-damage.

[Dornith]

Not only questionable by RAW, questionable by common sense as well.

Continuous Flame specifically states that it does nothing but look like fire and produce light like fire, thus there is no heat to be substituted by cold.

Light is energy as well.

[Shoat]

Light is energy as well.

Sure, but the energy of a light source weaker than a flashlight is not exactly significant enough for it to have energy substitution applied to it (since it specificalyl replaces damage type X with damage type Y).

Also, if we try to apply actual physics to this, substituting heat for cold becomes a bit weird. More than a bit, because "cold" is not energy, it's lack of energy.
It would mean that the cold-substituted continuous flame would have to constantly absorb energy from the surroundings (in order to "produce cold") and then we have to question where that energy goes (does the enchanted object at some point just melt from all the energy in it?) and whether or not (or rather, how) it still shines light outwards without shining warmth outwards.

And then we have to ask: What if you replace the light from a continuous flame with acid? Because according to d&d, acid is energy.
Which is the point where I would turn around and leave, because at that point it gets painfully stupid.

[Segev]

Do witches not get Prestitigitation? Harder to cool an entire bath, but certainly can cool a beverage. Even give it a pleasing flavor. And it technically COULD cool a bath with some time and effort. I'd probably fluff it as being the water that's touching your body that's cooled with each action, so you step into the bath and the water nearest you drops in temperature. Convection should keep it flowing around to cool more and more until you get the right temperature all around.

[Dalebert]

Prestidigitation works as well but witchs don't get that. You can get it from being a Gnome, themagical talent trait, the trifler trait or 2200gp for apprentice's cheating gloves which also gives mage hand at will

I couldn't stand doing without it for my witch so the first item I saved up for was a Cloak of the Hedge Wizard (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cloak-of-the-hedge-wizard). I'm a fan of the illusion one which also gets you Ghost Sound, another cantrip I hate doing without and the Silent Image once a day easily justifies the coast IMHO.

[nedz]

Sure, but the energy of a light source weaker than a flashlight is not exactly significant enough for it to have energy substitution applied to it (since it specificalyl replaces damage type X with damage type Y).

Also, if we try to apply actual physics to this, substituting heat for cold becomes a bit weird. More than a bit, because "cold" is not energy, it's lack of energy.
It would mean that the cold-substituted continuous flame would have to constantly absorb energy from the surroundings (in order to "produce cold") and then we have to question where that energy goes (does the enchanted object at some point just melt from all the energy in it?) and whether or not (or rather, how) it still shines light outwards without shining warmth outwards.

And then we have to ask: What if you replace the light from a continuous flame with acid? Because according to d&d, acid is energy.
Which is the point where I would turn around and leave, because at that point it gets painfully stupid.

Most of these arguments can be made for Energy Substitution, or even Cold as Energy, Acid as Energy, etc.

The idea is to make a water cooler, nothing more.

[Segev]

Most of these arguments can be made for Energy Substitution, or even Cold as Energy, Acid as Energy, etc.I actually think that was his point: it doesn't work if we try to apply it that way. He was illustrating the absurdity to which it leads.


The idea is to make a water cooler, nothing more.

Honestly, given the specific-game purpose here, I'd talk to the DM and ask him if I could have a 0-level spell that does this. Alternatively, if my Endure Elements 1st level spell could do this because cold-theme. It's not a significant enough bump in power to warrant a feat.

[Dalebert]

Also, if we try to apply actual physics to this
...
Which is the point where I would turn around and leave, because at that point it gets painfully stupid.

FTFW. Srsly, don't go there. Magic defies physics. That's the whole point. How do you even make it through the game if you're over-thinking it that much? This is why it gets so tedious as a DM whenever someone is trying to exploit the physics of a spell beyond its intended purpose.

I scoffed at the idea of energy substitution on Continual Flame myself at first but I suppose it's up for consideration. The question then is more a matter of how much cold or heat or whatever it would produce. Clearly not enough to do any damage because the light didn't. As a DM, I'd probably allow it as a sort of continuous prestidigitation level of temperature reduction to its immediate surroundings. Unless someone can point out how that's game-breaking, what's the big deal?

[Segev]

Unless someone can point out how that's game-breaking, what's the big deal?

It's too much in the "will the DM permit this?" territory to be useful for anything other than finding ways to use it as unintended consequences and break the game. If you want to go that far into "will the DM permit this?" it's easier and less potentially problematic to ask for a Cantrip that does exactly what the OP wants, or for Prestidigitation, to be added to the Witch list.

[Dalebert]

It's too much in the "will the DM permit this?" territory...

What does that even mean? I'm not following the argument being made here. The entire feat and many other feats like it seem to fall into that vague territory. That could apply to a bajillion things in RPGs.

EDIT: I just looked up the feat and there's a simpler reason why it won't work.


Choose one type of energy (acid, cold, electricity, or fire).

This (arguably) dangerously vague feat isn't as vague as I thought.

[StoneCipher]

It seems that cold is an energy type by the RAW. Let's ignore the fact that cold is a lack of energy since magic =/= science.

So if energy substitution allows you to apply a COLD energy type to spells, then you could use any spell that applies to infuse your surroundings with cold.

Continual flame would not work, however, since it is a continual HEATLESS flame, which means you would get a continual coldless...illuminating icy fog?

[Segev]

What does that even mean? I'm not following the argument being made here. The entire feat and many other feats like it seem to fall into that vague territory.

Nah, the feat says it replaces the energy type (which you notice in the part I left out of the quote is rather specific) with another. And the mechanical effect (aside from changing the descriptor) is to change the damage type. There's no damage from Continual Flame. It doesn't even produce heat/fire. So elemental substituting it wouldn't cause it to generate any cold.

The argument that was made to justify that it might is to say that light is energy, so the feat converts the illumination effect to a cold effect. That's what I meant was so far into "the DM would have to agree to it" territory as to be less good of a solution than simply getting the DM to okay Prestitigitation for the Witch spell list. Or homebrewing a unique Hex or something.

[StoneCipher]

I would say that the best bet is to take something like bless water and homebrew changes to it to chill water. To me it doesn't seem gamebreaking as long as you're not freezing lakes over.

[Hazrond]

Guys, Prestidigitation covers this. :smallconfused:

[Segev]

Guys, Prestidigitation covers this. :smallconfused:

Asked about it; apparently witches don't have it on their spell list. I think the OP should ask his DM to include it anyway.

[Twilightwyrm]

If you are okay with 3rd party stuff, there is the always the Create Snow and Create Ice Druid Cantrips, as well as the Layer of ice Wiz/Sorc cantrip. The former two can be gained via the Nature Magic feat from the ACG 1/day (as well as the ability to have a constant determine north effect). Or you can just ask your DM very nicely to let you have one of them, seeing as how it would be appropriate for the Winter Witch and all.
Alternatively you could Cold Substitute Firestream, and create a frost version that you can use to basically freeze anything, assuming you concentrate long enough.