Systems appropriate for fantasy novel worlds

[Jeff the Green]

There have been more than a few RPGs made for adventuring in the worlds of popular fantasy novels: Wheel of Time, Conan, Dresden Files, and the Cthulhu mythos all have their conversions.

Unfortunately some of my favorite series have been left bout by dint of their relative unpopularity. In particular, I'm thinking it would be fun to adventure in the world of the Belgariad and Mallorean by David and Leigh Eddings, the Elenium and Tamuli by the same, Codex Alera by Jim Butcher, Madeleine L'Engle's earth, and Sott Westerfield's bio/steampunk WWI from the Leviathan trilogy.

Unfortunately, I'm not super familiar with systems other than D&D 3.5, which would take more than a little alteration to fit any of those mythoi. I've at least read through CoC (not the d20 version), 4e, Dresden Files, and d20 modern, but I'm nowhere near familiar enough to say whether they'd work or not (though I'd be willing to bet 4e is at least as difficult to make fit).

So I ask you, you who have greater breadth of experience than me, what systems might fit these worlds best. And, more broadly, what systems would you use to emulate the worlds of books you'd particularly like to adventure in?

[Ailowynn]

It depends on the general tone of the novels, but my go-to answer would be Fate. It's perfect for the high action you see in a lot of fantasy novels, and, more importantly, you can tune it to fit any series. Great game.

For some books -- the Inheritance Cycle springs to mind -- I might recommend D&D, but you're probably right in thinking that it would be more work than it's worth. I would only use it for series that encourage a high level of grit in the mechanics, and hopefully those that have a magic system similar to the Vancian system. It just isn't a universal RPG -- it won't work as well as something custom-made to be customized.

[cesius]

I could see Codex Alera being done with Fate or Savage Worlds. Actually, if one had time to do so I could see it being done with custom life paths in Burning Wheel.

[LibraryOgre]

Hmmm...

For the Belgariad/Mallorean, you're probably going to want something with a variety of magic systems, with a powerful and flexible one as the "sorcery" stand-in. What comes to mind is actually World of Darkness, with Sorcerers using magic similar to Mage, and others using more limited gifts (like Witches might use garou-type gifts that they get from spirits, while Wizards would have some sort of summoning system). You might use a generic system like Savage Worlds to achieve the same effect, but then sorcerers start able to use any power, simply because of their flexibility.

For the Elenium/Tamuli, D&D might work, though you'd want to severely restrict the power of magic, while simultaneously opening it up to more people. It'll sound weird, but you might also look at MERP... MERP lets pretty much everyone learn a little bit of magic, if they have the aptitude (stats) and will.

[Airk]

Mage style magic maps better than most systems to Belgariad style magic, but I think it's still too constrained - I mean, you'd pretty much have to dispense with the idea of spheres, or at least, radically rewrite them. While certain Sorcerers were definitely better at some things than others, I didn't necessarily get the feeling that these were were so cleanly divided up. I'd almost rather just give everyone a 'sorcery' rating and let them pick a couple of specialties.

That said, honestly, I think this is the wrong tack, and you really, REALLY want to go with something more like Fate for the Belgariad, because otherwise, you're rapidly going to have anyone who's not a Sorcerer feeling pretty useless.

I guess it depends on what part of the 'feel' of the book you are after.

[Jeff the Green]

I'm looking at Fate right now (yay OGL!) and it looks pretty easy and appropriate for pretty much any fantasy. It involves a fair amount of DM adjudication, though, which is something I'd have to get used to.


For some books -- the Inheritance Cycle springs to mind -- I might recommend D&D, but you're probably right in thinking that it would be more work than it's worth.

This would require someone to actually want to play in that world. No thank you.


For the Belgariad/Mallorean, you're probably going to want something with a variety of magic systems, with a powerful and flexible one as the "sorcery" stand-in. What comes to mind is actually World of Darkness, with Sorcerers using magic similar to Mage, and others using more limited gifts (like Witches might use garou-type gifts that they get from spirits, while Wizards would have some sort of summoning system). You might use a generic system like Savage Worlds to achieve the same effect, but then sorcerers start able to use any power, simply because of their flexibility.

So the only things I know about World of Darkness is that you have something called dots (at least I think they're called dots) and there's a New WoD and an Old WoD. Would one be better than the other for this?

[Yora]

Fate works for pretty much everything, however it works very differently from games where you directly control your characters action. As I understand it, in Fate you instead have some control what happens to your character.

In my experience, 3rd Edition D&D with only psionics instead of spells works for pretty much any type of fantasy, unless it is something with a really unique kind of magic. Add a healing power, keep NPCs to 10th level or lower, and it's a good generic system.

[Khedrac]

One problem with adapting most fantasy novels for play is that the range of levels of magic power is too large for comfortable play.

Someone suggested Codex Alera - compare the level of power available to one of the Lords with an ordinary peasant (even one from the Vale) and they are exponentially different.

In some ways the Belgariad is worse, despite not having the same problem - all magic is world-breaking.

About the only system I have heard of that tries to do this is Ars Magica (never played it) but I doubt if it would serve here.

So then what? If you can find a point-based system (such as Champions) but that supports fantasy (there must be some, I just don't know them) then characters for different power levels can be built with very different numbers of points - thus delivering the variation required.

Come to think of it, I do know one - Amber, the RPG would do most things with a little tweaking.

[russdm]

I would suggest staying away from D&D since it doesn't really work for any other novels besides D&D novels. It cannot duplicate Lord of the Rings well, and it may be able to do a little bit of the James Vance novels, but I haven't read any of those and so don't know.

D&D is a game and many games don't work well to function as novels. They are two separate entities and go one direction. You can try writing stories/novels from a game and there has been success at that, but going from a game to novel doesn't really work out.

Look at the Dresden Files and Conan, both have unique systems to model them. That makes them better to play and I don't trust D&D to do anything but work for D&D games.

[Mr Beer]

Yeah, much as I enjoy D&D, it would be one of my last choices for modelling novels.

[veti]

If you can find a point-based system (such as Champions) but that supports fantasy (there must be some, I just don't know them) then characters for different power levels can be built with very different numbers of points - thus delivering the variation required.

The original fantasy version of Champions was called 'Fantasy Hero', it was a lovely system and I'd totally recommend it to anyone who's willing to put a bit of thought and effort into character generation. It made magic available to everyone, and encouraged you to put planning into designing your own spells to suit your own vision of your character, which was great. Fireball, Teleportation, Commune with Aardvarks? No problem, just define what effect it has and what limitations apply (things like 'casting time' and 'material components' would count), and pay the points.

From what I gather, both systems have now been replaced by a generic but terrifyingly complex 'HERO system'.

[Eisenheim]

Fate works for pretty much everything, however it works very differently from games where you directly control your characters action. As I understand it, in Fate you instead have some control what happens to your character.



I must respectfully disagree with this assessment of fate. I have found it to give a greater feel of control over what happens to my character than in any other system. For instance, in D&D, even the best warrior can roll a natural 1 on a crucial attack. In fate, I can spend resources to make sure that my gunslinger doesn't miss when it would damage my sense of the character for him to do so.

I will also add my voice to those suggesting fate. Once you have a little experience with the system, it becomes incredibly easy to tweak it to conjure the feeling of whatever setting you like.

[Knaight]

Fate works for pretty much everything, however it works very differently from games where you directly control your characters action. As I understand it, in Fate you instead have some control what happens to your character.

In Fate you still directly control your character's action, you still have skills that represent what they can do, so on and so forth. There's a pretty traditional core to it - it pulled extremely heavily from Fudge, which is arguably a GURPS offshoot - you just have some meta-game narrative control on top of it.

As for systems for this, REIGN might be worth a shot. It expects pretty powerful magic, and it's relatively easy to make new systems of magic. It also has very, very distinct stuff in it (there's a magical school called the Smoke Sculptors which is entirely about making solid things out of smoke and using them, and it's awesome), and in that breadth of ideas is enough material to make new things. It wouldn't work so well for the Belgariad, but Earthsea? No problem.

[AMFV]

My experience in general is that it is easier by far to convert a system to handle a different sort of genre, than it is to convert a system into something you'll actually enjoy to work with. Now many systems have many advantages, but those tend to work more towards playstyle than anything else, and some systems do require extensive conversion, but my experience has been that in general it is easier to use something that you enjoy mechanically and make the necessary conversions than to force yourself to do something you dislike mechanically. Of course if you find a system that works better for something and there is no mechanical or playstyle preference than by all means utilize that system.