Best and worst spells from half caster class lists

[Vogonjeltz]

What do you think the best and worst spells are from the classes that do only half casting (up to 4th or 5th level spells)?

Examples: Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger

*what do you look forward to? What would you avoid at all costs?

[HunterOfJello]

The worst are often spells that give you small non-scaling bonuses. The best are usually things that can be used as swift actions, give you far more versatility than your class would normally have, or you somehow get earlier on your list than most classes (this is very rare).


Rangers get a few great spells at 1st level.
Aspect of the Wolf - polymorph morphing into a specific form at level 4 isn't too shabby
Entangle - the staple of druids everywhere and a great crowd control spell
Omen of Peril - divination is awesome
Lay of the Land - maps are always helpful (this comes 3 levels earlier than druids too)

[sideswipe]

paladins getting 1 temp HP for a first level spell....

[Hamste]

paladins getting 1 temp HP for a first level spell....

Paladins op

[Segev]

While only sometimes useful by the time you get it, Holy Sword is actually a pretty potent 4th level Paladin spell. No matter what your equipment status, you're one spell away from a +5 Holy weapon. It overwrites normal enchantments, though, so if you have a good weapon already, you will only use it when you're for some reason without the permanent item you prefer.

Lion's Charge is so awesome a Ranger spell that I talked my DM into adding it to the Paladin list, as well.

I'm also fond of the One Mind line of spells, though sometimes staying close enough to the mount to not have it vanish is tricky. Though combine them with the Carry Companion spell from PF (turns the mount into a little figurine you can put in your pocket), and it would actually be a decent all-day buff.

[RolandDeschain]

Arrow Storm - Ranger 3 is pretty cool
Divine Sacrifice - Paladin 1 is a nice damage boost

[Dalebert]

A little bard love, anyone? We just had a new player join our party and she's playing a bard. I wouldn't mind a few suggestions. Pathfinder, btw.

[Allanimal]

A little bard love, anyone? We just had a new player join our party and she's playing a bard. I wouldn't mind a few suggestions. Pathfinder, btw.

Glibness. Unless pathfinder nerfed it hard, a bard can do amazing things with glibness.

[Psyren]

Glibness. Unless pathfinder nerfed it hard, a bard can do amazing things with glibness.

There is a GM clause in PF Bluff that lets the GM throw out lies that are too ridiculous. Obviously they could before but it is codified now.

[Segev]

There is a GM clause in PF Bluff that lets the GM throw out lies that are too ridiculous. Obviously they could before but it is codified now.

The way I always preferred to run that was that your Bluff convinced the person to whom you're talking that you believe what you're saying. If he thinks it truly impossible, he will just think you're wrong (or possibly nuts). I never did come up with a satisfactory way to model the kind of shyster who could genuinely make people doubt their own beliefs about how things are. Who could get somebody to actually take an umbrella outside into the desert on the strength of his lie that today, it really is raining.

Or the truly epic feat of convincing somebody that they're in the Matrix. >_> Might be that that's a matter of having to find the right mark, though; you just can't convince most people the evidence of their eyes is lying.

[gorfnab]

For prestige classes Tellflammar Shadowlord, Trapsmith, and Vigilante have really interesting spell lists.

[KingAtomsk]

The way I always preferred to run that was that your Bluff convinced the person to whom you're talking that you believe what you're saying. If he thinks it truly impossible, he will just think you're wrong (or possibly nuts). I never did come up with a satisfactory way to model the kind of shyster who could genuinely make people doubt their own beliefs about how things are. Who could get somebody to actually take an umbrella outside into the desert on the strength of his lie that today, it really is raining.

Or the truly epic feat of convincing somebody that they're in the Matrix. >_> Might be that that's a matter of having to find the right mark, though; you just can't convince most people the evidence of their eyes is lying.

Might be possible to combine Sense Motive and then a straight Wisdom check with the DC set according to the level of ridiculous-ness of the lie

[Thanatosia]

My favorite ranger spells:

Swift Haste - Only lasts 1d4 rounds, but haste from a swift action is pretty dang nice.
Arrow Mind - Immediate Action to make being an archer in melee work.

[Thanatosia]

There is a GM clause in PF Bluff that lets the GM throw out lies that are too ridiculous. Obviously they could before but it is codified now.
I'd like to take a moment here to suggest that too many people use their 'rl' filters in analyzing a ridiculous lie in D&D. I would be beyond skeptical if you told me an invisible man stole the diamond, but if I lived in a world where invisibility is just a lv2 spell away.... it's orders of magnitude less ridiculous. In a setting where magic is acknowledged and known and widespread, I think the ceeling of how skeptical you can afford to be of any claim is much, much, much lower then we are really accostomed to, and so credibility of the witness goes a lot futher even in the case of outrageous claims.

[Psyren]

I'd like to take a moment here that too many people use their 'rl' filters in analyzing a ridiculous lie in D&D. I would be beyond skeptical if you told me an invisible man stole the diamond, but if I lived in a world where invisibility is just a lv2 spell away.... it's orders of magnitude less ridiculous. In a setting where magic is acknowledged and known and widespread, I don't think anyone can really be overly skeptical of any claim.

It raises the bar, certainly - but letting the bard get away with anything he can envision and defeat the BBEG in 6 seconds is not going to fly either.

Which raises an interesting point. Yeah, you probably can fool a random commoner or merchant with a lie like that, but Elminster is probably going to laugh in your face, test your theory or simply raise his eyebrows and pretend he believes you until an opportune moment.

[Fax Celestis]

I'm a big fan of hound of doom.

[Segev]

Divine Insight (Pal 2) can be pretty amazing. Up to a +15 bonus (at CL 10) on a single skill check when the cards are down without an action needed at the time of use to cast the spell. Paladins succeeding at esoteric skill checks? More likely than you might think!

[Chronos]

Isn't Divine Insight a cleric spell, too, though?

As to Glibness, the rules say that the person really does believe it to be true. And the example given in the book for a 30 DC (which Glibness lets you hit every time) is "I'm actually a polymorphed lammasu, and you can believe me because lammasu never lie". If a lie of that magnitude is what you can achieve with Glibness without even having any skill ranks or Cha bonus, then just think of what you can do with another +20 or so and a good roll (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html)