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DontEatRawHagis
2014-08-26, 10:07 PM
So my storyline is a High Fantasy Apocalypse setting. Where the Gods are fighting over the remaining mortals.

Each of the players has their own storyline so far but am I going a bit overboard? I have 6 players with independent storylines, only two of which are directly relevant to the main story.

I wish to introduce a new faction soon but I'm getting the feeling I might be over taxing their memory. I don't want to overload them.

BWR
2014-08-27, 01:11 AM
Easiest way to find out if you are throwing too much at your players: ask them.
If you are unsure, ask your players if they a) can keep track of all the storylines going on and b) if they care about the ones that don't involve the main story.

If the answer to either question is 'no', cut down on them. Even if this means cutting down on ongoing stuff. Make a quick end to it and get back to the main story.

Beneath
2014-08-27, 01:37 AM
Easiest way to find out if you are throwing too much at your players: ask them.
If you are unsure, ask your players if they a) can keep track of all the storylines going on and b) if they care about the ones that don't involve the main story.

If the answer to either question is 'no', cut down on them. Even if this means cutting down on ongoing stuff. Make a quick end to it and get back to the main story.

I agree with this.

Though, caveat, it depends. It may be possible to have a good campaign where different players' attention is put on different plot threads, so every plot thread has some subset of the players' attention even if no player is watching every plot thread. Doing this is hard, means you have to juggle plot threads well (so that no plot thread is left hanging so long the people paying attention to it forget about it), and means some of the players will be confused/surprised by things.

Plots centered on individual PCs are good for this. Every PC is the star of their own story, and, from their player's point of view, the most important and interesting person in the game world. Even if nobody else is paying attention, you have that player's attention firmly on their background plot.

Aedilred
2014-08-27, 05:12 AM
I think the limit, certainly in a "facetime" campaign rather than a PbP, is about two. Some particularly engaged players (especially in a PbP where previous events and conversations are easy to review) might be able to manage three, but most players will start missing things.

But that's per player rather than per group, so you could have one main plot for the whole party and then an additional plot for each player, say. They might have to take turns in getting their individual plots addressed and they'll probably lose track of each other's, but it could work.

It's not a hard and fast rule, mind. If party plot A is more than half done, and you have additional player plots Q R and S ongoing, you can start "teasing" plot B and the players will probably remember it even if that theoretically takes some of them up to three. You can suspend Plot A to deal with Subquest C which affects the whole party, so long as you close out C before returning to A. In general I've found that one main plot and then an extra plot for a couple of the more engaged players works fairly well. What is frustrating of course is where the players are actively pursuing Player Plot P (in addition to Party Plot A) and you're also feeding them information on Plot P which they take as part of a separate Plot Q because the connection isn't obvious. But that's just normal player behaviour.

Slipperychicken
2014-08-27, 05:26 AM
You could get an idea of their memory capacity by asking them what happened in the campaign so far. Obviously, it will help a lot to straighten out your own knowledge of the campaign's events beforehand, so you have something to compare their story to.

Brookshw
2014-08-27, 05:55 AM
I'd suggest it's time to look for ways and means to weave them all together. For my own experiences, anytime I have 5 or more critical paths in play for a game at least one is going to the wayside as the party looses focus on it (unless maybe your party takes good notes). Too much content divides attention, you'll run the risk of content/conflict you want to have a prominent place failing to do so or it can run so large it starts to get a bit silly. Lot's of different strings are a good thing but you want to be sure they're getting woven into the same tapestry and that the players have a good perspective to see the whole thing.

Of course players being players they'll ignore what you want them to focus on and grab onto those you expect them to ignore so be prepared to just burn some of those threads.

ElenionAncalima
2014-08-27, 08:17 AM
It depends on several factors.

Your players
-Their ability to follow and recall many plotlines.
-Their overall investment in the game (the less invested they are, the more likely are to lose focus on aspects of the plot)

If you already feel your players losing focus on one of more plot element, I would hesitate before adding another plot thread. Alternatively, if there are plot threads that clearly don't interest the players, you could try having those plots resolves themselves before adding new layers.

The DM:
-Can you handle all the reccuring plot points both in an out of game?

I know this question was about what players can handle, but if the DM isn't able handle all the subplots, the players will have no chance of following along. Being able to know all the plotlines is one thing, but do you think you can present them all clearly in game, so that players will be able to remember them?

Overall:
The one storyline per person, doesn't seem unreasonable, as long as you aren't expecting more than that one player to follow along closely. Just make sure the subplots that are important to the main plot are being handled by players who are invested and following along, so they can fill the party in on important details. Personally, I think it adds verisimilitude when different characters have a different knowledge base.

Regarding adding a new plot, I would suggest talking to the players. You don't have to reveal your hand. Just ask them questions like, "How well do you feel you are following along with the story? Do you think the game could handle more complexity...or does it need to be simplified?"

Red Fel
2014-08-27, 08:56 AM
Rather than adding to what others have said (with which I tend to agree), I'll answer your question with another question:

How many involve them?

First, how many involve the PCs at all? There may be events happening in the background that you mention, such as a revolution in the neighboring kingdom, a strange but seemingly harmless aura around a region, rumors of dwarves turning to stone, or what-have-you. I'm not saying that some players won't take note of or keep track of events like those, but generally, if a story or plot point occurs that does not impact the PCs, it becomes a very low priority (unless the players know you well enough to know that anything that doesn't impact them now will impact them later, in a major way).

Second, how many involve a given player's character? Say there is a minor hierarchical shift at the Mage Tower. That may have a substantial impact on the party Wizard; that may have next to no impact on the party Barbarian (unless, of course, it disrupts the Wizard's access to the Barbarian's favorite buffs). Again, attentive or intuitive players may take note of things that impact other PCs than their own, but such plot points occupy a lower priority.

For me as a player, and as I've observed with my players generally, the priority list goes something like this: Is the story happening in front of my PC right now? If not, does it directly impact my PC? If not, does it indirectly impact my PC? If not, does it directly impact another PC? If not, does it indirectly impact another PC? If not, does it impact an NPC ally? If not, does it impact an important region? If not, does it impact anything of which we are aware? If not, we'll get to it eventually, if at all, but why do we care about it again?
Note that you can further break down #3 by "Does it impact a PC that doesn't tick me off?" (Yes, I've known players who could care less about major plot points if it meant the lives of annoying PCs. Or NPCs. Or really, anybody who made them think, "Know what? **** 'em.")

I will agree with the above posters that the players, like any human being, have a limited capacity for plot points. But that capacity is variable; if the plot points are engaging, emotionally and psychologically, if they are well-written and compelling, if they involve well-loved characters, the players can retain a surprising amount of detail. (Ask anyone who reads A Song of Ice and Fire or watches Game of Thrones.) Long delays between sessions, or dull plot points, or sluggish story progression, or concepts in which that player's PC isn't invested, can reduce their desire or ability to invest.

Solution? Weave it all together. Every PC has a well-written plot thread, and the threads braid together into more elaborate tapestries of story and sequence. Everyone becomes substantially invested in everyone else's success, everyone becomes intrigued by the others' stories because those stories impact their PCs as well. His story is hers, is theirs, is ours, it's not several threads but one vast interwoven epic.

gom jabbarwocky
2014-08-27, 02:34 PM
You could get an idea of their memory capacity by asking them what happened in the campaign so far.

At the start of every session I GM, rather than having me blathering on about the events so far, I always ask the players to recap. I find it keeps me aware of what plot threads and events to focus on, if I know what the players felt was relevant. Sometimes I even feign forgetfulness if the players are feeling kind of cagey at the start. It's a great way to gauge if the plot is boring and you need to punch it up, or if it's just too complicated to keep track of.

Red Fel
2014-08-27, 03:03 PM
At the start of every session I GM, rather than having me blathering on about the events so far, I always ask the players to recap. I find it keeps me aware of what plot threads and events to focus on, if I know what the players felt was relevant. Sometimes I even feign forgetfulness if the players are feeling kind of cagey at the start. It's a great way to gauge if the plot is boring and you need to punch it up, or if it's just too complicated to keep track of.

An interesting variant of this that I've encountered is to give the players a (very small) bonus for keeping a campaign journal. This gets the players further invested in the plot (since they'll be recording it), and gives them a tool to track events (since they've written them). For extra fun factor, encourage them to keep the journal in character. Whether it's Unit 2409 discussing his latest observations on the volatile psychochemical states of these primitive meatbags, or Mighty Kobold Dakdak's mighty remarks about his mighty combat prowess (and also the puny elf-person and dwarf-things and hyoo-man were there), it's a great way to have a little extra fun with the character and keep track of what's going on.

You can then cycle around the group and let people recap from their journals - because lots of people relish the chance to share their creative genius with the rest of the world. (Or at least their dice-rolling buddies.)

gom jabbarwocky
2014-08-27, 03:19 PM
An interesting variant of this that I've encountered is to give the players a (very small) bonus for keeping a campaign journal. This gets the players further invested in the plot (since they'll be recording it), and gives them a tool to track events (since they've written them). For extra fun factor, encourage them to keep the journal in character.

That's a great idea! And just in time, I'm due to start a new campaign next week...