Which CR is appropiate for a 12th level caster?

[Yael]

I have this "boss" here, more like of a dude that holds a grudge against the PCs, so, he was a wizard, now he is kinda the bad guy here. I've already built it as a 5th level conjurer/master specialist 5/recaster 2, so he is doing some conjuration here and there, but I know that its CR would be around 12th, however, by itself is a threat for a four-man 12hd party? Or is it an appropiate challenge for a party made of 6 7th-level characters? I'm refering this dude as the whole challenge, with no minions involved (aside from summons)

[HammeredWharf]

Impossible to say, really. Depends too much on the optimization levels of both the caster and your players. Generally, the CR system guideline fails badly when it comes to NPCs with class levels. I often pit my players against equal-sized parties of equal-level NPCs. It should be very dangerous, but isn't, because the players obviously put more effort in their characters than I put in my NPCs.

[Crake]

it depends on what you mean. A "CR appropriate encounter" should have little to no risk of a party death, let alone wipe, and should just serve to consume some of the party's resources (renewable or not). However, for a boss encounter, you want to look at CRs a little higher, 3-4 above the party. After all, a party of 4 adventurers are a CR of their level +4, so an "even fight" is level+4 CR

[Bronk]

If the party is going to catch this guy unaware and unprepared, they won't even notice him... It doesn't really matter if he's a caster if they take him out in the surprise round. In that case, it would be a lower CR.

If he's moderately prepared and protected, I guess it would be CR12 no problem. If party still takes him out easily, more power to them.

If he is well prepared, has a few things summoned, has a few battlefield control spells up, has magic that makes him go first or at least survive until he can act, a few magic items to let him cast more, and so on, it might be an even higher CR.

[bjoern]

Well, as a 12th level wizard, he's got level 6 spells. As mentioned above , it depends on optimization. But he probably has celerity, teleport, and contingency. He has the potential of being BBEG as he is likely a slippery eel with those three spells alone.

If all he has is Blasty spells (low optimization) then he should be a pushover with proper tactics.

[Yael]

He is:
1 • Prepared for facing the party (at least the ones he knew before leaving the group).
2 • Knows the party and is following them (as a changeling, spying and scrying)
3 • Every source available for spell selection (including 3rd party).
4 • Persist Spell is banned.

So he might be:
1 • Preparing an ambush.
2 • Hiring minions (lower level, of course)
3 • Preparing buffs and debuffs against specific members of the party.

Of course this would be a BBEG, so which CR he hight represent, or at which level the party (of 7 people) could face him?

If needed, I'll post the build.

[Yukisuya]

To reiterate what was posted before, a great deal of this determination is based upon how "optimized" your party is. Just as he is prepared by his many different ways, as DM's we have to ask ourselves if we are more optimized than the party. Do the caster PC's in the group prepare vast numbers of utility spells and rely on the bruisers to deal the majority of damage. Do the specialist classes actually have proper skill ranks, and decent modifiers to handle what you're going to throw at them?

In the end, a lot of this boils down to a question I often ask myself when building a "hard" encounter. It's something to the tune of, "If they prepare everything as reasonably well as they could have given the information they have and exercise good judgement throughout the fight, can they win without exhausting absolutely everything at their disposal?" If that answer is no, it's probably too hard. If the answer is, "They could roflstomp this in the first round if they win initiative" It's probably Not suitable for a bbeg fight, but not a bad encounter per se.

So you can post your build, but until we really know what the party has access to, and what their level of game knowledge and optimization is, it's truly a loaded question that anyone outside of yourself can't answer effectively.

[atemu1234]

By definition 12, I suppose. But like others say it varies.

[Yael]

Oookay, then I'll post here the build.

Changeling.
Str: 10
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Cha: 10

Forbidden Schools are Enchantment and Evocation.
1st | Conjurer 1
2nd | Conjurer 2
3rd | Conjurer 3
4th | Conjurer 4
5th | Changeling Wizard 5
6th | Master Specialist 1
7th | Master Specialist 2
8th | Master Specialist 3
9th | Master Specialist 4
10th | Master Specialist 5
11th | Recaster 1
12th | Recaster 2

As for feats:
[1st] Spell Focus (Conjuration)
[Flaw] Cloudy Conjuration
[Flaw] Sculpt Spell
[3rd] Obtain Familiar
[6th] Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration)
[Master Specialist] Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
[9th] Extend Spell
[Master Specialist] Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
[12th] Open.

[HammeredWharf]

Looks like a decent mid-op wizard, so she should be a challenging boss battle for a group of four lvl 8 characters. A group of seven lvl 6-7 characters should be able to handle her fine, too. I'd say lvl 7, especially if she has a couple of hirelings. Still, the actual CR may vary. For example, if she used Planar Binding to get herself a Glabrezu, she could suddenly have a CR13 ally with "nice little things" like Power Word Stun. In that case, lvl 8-9 may be more appropriate, especially if the PCs don't use similar optimization tricks.