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View Full Version : GM Help - Transition TPK, Sort Of.



Garimeth
2014-08-27, 07:30 AM
So this Sunday we are playing 13th Age, its a campaign that's been going since January, playing about twice a month for about 5-6 hours each session. One of the characters (sorc) found this book in the first session that is bound to him because he is descended from the mage who lives in it. It speaks to him sort of like that journal in Harry Potter. It has been slowly corrupting the character, and this Sunday it is going to lead the party to touch a cursed artifact that will possess the PC. Afterwards the PC (the player) is going to announce for the locations guardians (which have been pacified by a passphrase given him by the book) "Kill them" and they are going to have a HARD fight, which will most likely be a TPK. 5 years later (in game) they will be resurrected to find the empire has become a total police state, there is a full fledged rebellion against the Emperor, and the sorceror is behind it all.

Background: The sorc's player wanted to roll a wizard instead so he had a bit of out of combat utility (first time with this system, and sorc ended up being pretty much just a pure blaster). I had already been bouncing around how to have the book's corruption become more overt, and had originally figured I'd have the artifact posess an NPC or something. But upon learning that the PC wanted to make a new character anyway I approached him about this, without giving him many details. So he is on board.

Intent: I hope to accomplish the following things with this:
1. Cool story, I feel, and the impact of your fellow player saying "kill them" and then teleporting away from a TPK is pretty big. (We do not play PvP games or anything like that, so this is not something that happens all the time, or ever.)

2. Not only does it give me an easy way to bring the sorc's new character in (I introduced him to the party as an NPC already.), but it lets everybody else re-do their characters too. We recently purchased the second book in the system, and it has some cool stuff we want to implement. Additionally, being as it was the first time with this system, some of the players are not happy with their class choices, stat distribution, etc. I am going to let them use this opportunity to "reroll" their existing xcharacter as a result of the resurrection gone bad, or make a new character completely, who will be part of the group that revives them.

There will also be a bit of a break between this session and the next session probably, 2 weeks to a month.



With all that out of the way. I figure this can be really cool. If done right this could be a session they will remember years from now. If done poorly it might be remembered too... So! I am looking for any advice that anybody has for how to implement 1 the betrayal, 2 the TPK, and 3 the resurrection scene to make it a good memorable play session. I've tried to keep the details light, but if more details will help I'm happy to provide them.

Edit: The resurrection will probably be next session, not this session. That or I could make it just a a kind of "you open your eyes, and here the Seer's voice 'Welcome back, its been a long 5 years.' " and then end the session.

draken50
2014-08-27, 09:34 AM
I think it's doable. I just wanted to chime in that letting your players know their characters aren't just gone at the end of the session is a good idea. You don't need to give much in the way of information, just enough for them to know all is not lost.

You might have the player roll will saves to "avoid the possession." This may help with your players too as the player doesn't order their death, but that after "failing" a number of will saves, if asked you could always tell the players that the book needed so many successful attempts and got more attempts for each time the character used its knowledge/power. Obviously the rolls don't matter all too much, a high DC can be assumed, but any lower rolls would emphasize that this is a betrayal due to outside force. At that point you should control the character for sure.

I'd probably give the guardians some kind of AOE blast magic that could wreck an unprepared party, but give them a viable method to defeat them later. If the players are going to be defeated it can be nice to make them feel like they won't get beaten the same way again.

Garimeth
2014-08-27, 11:12 AM
I think it's doable. I just wanted to chime in that letting your players know their characters aren't just gone at the end of the session is a good idea. You don't need to give much in the way of information, just enough for them to know all is not lost.

You might have the player roll will saves to "avoid the possession." This may help with your players too as the player doesn't order their death, but that after "failing" a number of will saves, if asked you could always tell the players that the book needed so many successful attempts and got more attempts for each time the character used its knowledge/power. Obviously the rolls don't matter all too much, a high DC can be assumed, but any lower rolls would emphasize that this is a betrayal due to outside force. At that point you should control the character for sure.

I'd probably give the guardians some kind of AOE blast magic that could wreck an unprepared party, but give them a viable method to defeat them later. If the players are going to be defeated it can be nice to make them feel like they won't get beaten the same way again.

Yeah the more I think about it I like the direction of my proposed ending at the end of my post.

I don't want to do the saves, because (using roll20) the PLAYER, not me, is going to order the death. I think that increases the shock value. After the fact we're definitely going to let them know kind of what was up. So they get to the artifact by sailing on an ancient automated magic ship to the volcanic island where the artifact is housed. The ship is housed in an ancient harbor fortress long abandoned by the elves where time does not pass at the same rate as it does in the real world. The plan is to describe the ritual that makes the artifact safe to approach in great detail and then have them leave and sail back to the mainland ad be greeted by the guardians inside. At this point the guardians will ask how it all went and I will send the sorc's player a tell that tells him to say

PLAYER: "Varus claps his hand. 'It went great!, and now-' snaps his fingers and all the doors in the room close 'kill them.' Varus disappears in a flash of light."
DM: Alright guys roll initiative.
EVERYONE ELSE: WTF just happened?!

Hopefully that's not one of those things that sounds cool to me, but they will hate, lol.

So far the guardians are 10 gargoyles that are a level higher than the party, and a sphinx that is 3 levels higher than the party (max level in 13A is 10) so I think that will be sufficient, the sphinx can 1 shot half the party with its melee attack, and gets multiple attacks a round, and the gargoyles will mostly be to block escape and provoke opportunity attacks if they try to flee. They party is only 6 guys, and other than the cleric they won't have any significant source of magic or aoe firepower, since the sorc is betraying them.

HighWater
2014-08-27, 11:26 AM
Hmmm, a planned TPK... I have a question:

You say it is likely to result in a TPK. This means you're not sure. Have you thought of what happens if one or more PCs survive? Or even beat these Guardians?
If one of your players comes up with a plan to survive or win, it may feel pretty heavy-handed if you just DM fiat it not to work...

One way to implement an unwinnable encounter without throwing an obviously unstoppable monster at them is to send these Guardians at them in waves. As long as the PCs can't escape, you can wear them down with waves and waves of expendable but challenging opponents. That way, the PCs can at least affect how many of the enemy bite the dust before they themselves kick the bucket. You avoid Plot Armor and other signs of Railroading, while the conclusion is still unavoidable: TPK. (Some players may still complain, but sometimes you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Of course, after the deed is done is done, you should give a teaser that the story does not end here... That should greatly reduce any anger to your murdering of treasured characters. :smallwink:

Garimeth
2014-08-27, 12:27 PM
Hmmm, a planned TPK... I have a question:

You say it is likely to result in a TPK. This means you're not sure. Have you thought of what happens if one or more PCs survive? Or even beat these Guardians?
If one of your players comes up with a plan to survive or win, it may feel pretty heavy-handed if you just DM fiat it not to work...

One way to implement an unwinnable encounter without throwing an obviously unstoppable monster at them is to send these Guardians at them in waves. As long as the PCs can't escape, you can wear them down with waves and waves of expendable but challenging opponents. That way, the PCs can at least affect how many of the enemy bite the dust before they themselves kick the bucket. You avoid Plot Armor and other signs of Railroading, while the conclusion is still unavoidable: TPK. (Some players may still complain, but sometimes you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Of course, after the deed is done is done, you should give a teaser that the story does not end here... That should greatly reduce any anger to your murdering of treasured characters. :smallwink:

I probably shouldn't say likely. I have a number of encounters planned on the volcanic island which will drain all their resources so by the time they actually encounter the TPK encounter they will be out of heals, smites, and big spells - not to mention losing their sorc to the betrayal. The rogues player is probably the most skilled player at dungeon crawl style play and is the most likely to figure out a way to escape - so I'll drop him first. Next is the paladin, who is also a bit of a tank and has LoH. Also, the sphinx does so much damage that it can literally one shot or two shot these guys. I'd give them 3 rounds before they are all dead. The doors will all be magically sealed, and the bard and cleric are npcs (not to mention in 13A magic is not the crazy out of control thing it is in 3.X)

Friv
2014-08-27, 12:38 PM
You're going to want to have a plan in case the players somehow win. Strings of terrible or incredible luck do happen, and it's not as though the players are planning to take a dive.

Garimeth
2014-08-27, 12:49 PM
You're going to want to have a plan in case the players somehow win. Strings of terrible or incredible luck do happen, and it's not as though the players are planning to take a dive.

I can have the wizard wait at the entrance to ensure they bought it before he bounces. If they survive this encounter, which in itself is unlikely, he will be able to easily finish off the group, because he's an epic level BBEG - they've almost bought it against way easier encounters before.

Hmm, I guess if that ends up happening I can just have the time lapse happen as a result of the difference in the passage of time, or I could have them recover the bodies of their companions and then end the scene the same way, having background elapsed the time of 5 years, and then work out the details of those years with the players.

That or abandon the whole thing, and accelerate the 5 year time line by ALOT so the players can see it unfolding and try and stop it. I worry that it will feel way too rushed and flood the campaign with "busy stuff".

Chacha
2014-08-27, 01:09 PM
If a player survives, that player leads the group resurrecting his/her comrades. In the five years that have passed, they have been able to learn new skills (allow them to reroll and retool the same as your dead PCs).

Don't forget Tucker and his kobolds. You can assure a TPK. Or even assure a single survivor to tell the tale.

cesius
2014-08-27, 02:04 PM
Make the description of when a character goes down special and not just, "You're dead." Keep it vaguely mysterious so the players can either interpret it how they want to or sit there wondering what happened but curious to see what happens next.

"As the acid burns through your face you feel a strange sense of peace descend and a quiet murmur begins to build in your ears as everything takes on a sharp, clear-visioned quality before sharply cutting to bright white... ok, next player's turn."

Garimeth
2014-08-27, 02:28 PM
Make the description of when a character goes down special and not just, "You're dead." Keep it vaguely mysterious so the players can either interpret it how they want to or sit there wondering what happened but curious to see what happens next.

"As the acid burns through your face you feel a strange sense of peace descend and a quiet murmur begins to build in your ears as everything takes on a sharp, clear-visioned quality before sharply cutting to bright white... ok, next player's turn."

I like this.

Mr Beer
2014-08-27, 02:42 PM
Make the description of when a character goes down special and not just, "You're dead." Keep it vaguely mysterious so the players can either interpret it how they want to or sit there wondering what happened but curious to see what happens next.

"As the acid burns through your face you feel a strange sense of peace descend and a quiet murmur begins to build in your ears as everything takes on a sharp, clear-visioned quality before sharply cutting to bright white... ok, next player's turn."

Second this, it will get them thinking and reduce the 'WTF FU DM!' factor.

daremetoidareyo
2014-08-27, 04:36 PM
I support the waves of enemies idea. If the PCs to defeat the first set of guardians through cleverness, send another wave and upon new character creation grant a reward bonus of some sort (extra something or other) to each of the PCs for their arduous journey. A little honey will make that vinegar tea a little more bearable.

Garimeth
2014-09-02, 11:14 AM
Just wanted to update that the session went really well.

The fight was close enough to winnable that they thought it was a genuine wipe, they didn't realize that the NPC I had the other player take over for the fight was actually his new PC, and they hate the guy who betrayed them now. They thought the res was cool, a couple of guys are going to change their characters a bit from the res, and it seemed legit enough that they all asked me what would have happened if they won - so it didn't feel like DM fiat. In fact at one point during the fight they told me I had thrown too much at them, so they thought it was a legit battle.

Very pleased with how it turned out, and they all had a blast and have been blowing my phone up with texts about it since.