Warlock Multiclassing

[Z3ro]

So, reading more closely through the warlock, and while reading the invocations list, I noticed they have prerequisites in levels, but nowhere I could find do they specifically mention warlock levels. So this leads to two questions:

1. If I take a level of warlock later (say, 12), would I qualify, RAW, for any invocation that has level 12 or lower as a prerequisite?

2. If 1 is yes, was this the designers intent? I know they scaled cantrips to character level, not class level, so this would be consistent with that, but given what I know about D&D designers, this seems to sensical for them. Do we have any official sources on a yes or no?

[Naanomi]

It's been asked a lot, and the answers appear to be 1) Who knows, but you can make a good case for RAW of it; and 2) Who knows, but probably not.

It might get an official FAQ or Errata eventually. Luckily this edition has put a stronger emphasis on 'the DM makes the rules' so ultimately go with what your DM says.

[Ramshack]

You can e-mail wizards of the coast for an official rule clarification, normally takes 1 - 3 days. My group has used it a few times to clarify some rules.

[Kerilstrasz]

this might not be exactly the answer you are looking for , but..

is it really worth a (at least) 2 lvl dip to get just 2 invocations?

maybe that was their thought and decided, ok.. if you think it is really worth it, go for it.

[Yagyujubei]

for most classes it's totally worth it imho. warlock has possibly the best 2 level dip if you ask me. 2 invocations which can be insanely useful, 2 spells that refresh on short rest, and the level 1 feature benefit, which can be telepathic communications with any intelligent creature. if you ask me that's worth it and a half.


that aside, whats the general consensus on Multiclass dips for a blade pact warlock? 2 levels in fighter for the action surge and second wind seems like the strongest choice to me.

oh and also. the requirement for invocations is total player level if you take the text as it is.

[MustacheFart]

Way of the Shadow Monk + dip into warlock for Devil's sight? Yes, please. Toss in something like Eldritch Spear as the other invocation and run/teleport around from shadow to shadow peppering your enemy from 300' away. Want to add some ritual spells for good measure? Okay Pact of Tome. Or how about find familiar for a psuedodragon pet? Okay Pact of Chain.


My next character will be a shadow monk dipping into warlock. It should be so nice that about 50% of me hopes my main character eats it when we start Horde of the Dragon Queen this weekend.

[Zweisteine]

A a DM, I would say all levels count for invocations, unless uou're trying to take advantage of it.

In other words, probably not.

Now that I think of it, that's actually incredibly powerful. Go warlock 3 to get an extra attack in any non-monk class. Scary. No dipping warlock for you.

[Vhaluus]

A a DM, I would say all levels count for invocations, unless uou're trying to take advantage of it.

In other words, probably not.

Now that I think of it, that's actually incredibly powerful. Go warlock 3 to get an extra attack in any non-monk class. Scary. No dipping warlock for you.

well in fairness that extra attack doesn't stack with any other extra attacks. So unless you're splashing from a non-EK mage or a sorc or cleric you really don't gain anything from that.

[Abithrios]

You can e-mail wizards of the coast for an official rule clarification, normally takes 1 - 3 days. My group has used it a few times to clarify some rules.

Has anyone done this yet? I have seen this question around a few times.

[HugeC]

If you take a look at some of the invocations, they basically give you access to spells that you could learn as a wizard, with a level requirement where, if you were that level wizard, you could learn the spell. Some examples.

Sign of Ill Omen - Cast bestow curse, requires 5th level, whaddya know it's a level 3 spell.
Sculptor of Flesh - Cast polymorph, requires 7th level, whaddya know it's a level 4 spell.
Minions of Chaos - Cast conjure elemental, requires 9th level, whaddya know it's a level 5 spell.


It's obviously intended to be warlock level, and they just forgot to mention that up front as they did with e.g. monk abilities. Those who say otherwise are just trying to munchkin their way to as much power as possible, in the long and grand tradition of munchkins!

[da_chicken]

I would tend to agree with HugeC. If you're a Cleric 19 and pick up Wizard 1 for your next level, you don't get to add Wish to your spellbook. It doesn't matter that the game is designed for 20th level characters to be capable of casting Wish, you still don't get to do that. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, I would say that "level" for invocation prerequisites means "Warlock class level".

[Shadow]

is it really worth a (at least) 2 lvl dip to get just 2 invocations?

In many cases, yes. In some cases, abso-luckin-footlee!
Let's take a bard for example. Bard has the exact same multiclass requirements, similar stat allocation, and very little damage compared to many other classes (especially lore college). Two levels of warlock, with eldritch blast as one of your cantrips, and agonizing blast and repelling blast as your invocations.
You can now deal at will damage that contends with a fighter, and also control with those same blasts, in addition to all of your bardly stuff.
IMHO, any lore bard that doesn't multiclass two levels of warlock is almost doing it wrong.

Your group (or errata/clarification) deems that character level is used?
You think you have enough control already as a bard?
Take a third level of warlock at a later time, when it's appropriate. You grab a pact boon and drop repelling for an invocaton of your choice.

[Ghostlore]

Way of the Shadow Monk + dip into warlock for Devil's sight? Yes, please. Toss in something like Eldritch Spear as the other invocation and run/teleport around from shadow to shadow peppering your enemy from 300' away. Want to add some ritual spells for good measure? Okay Pact of Tome. Or how about find familiar for a psuedodragon pet? Okay Pact of Chain.


My next character will be a shadow monk dipping into warlock. It should be so nice that about 50% of me hopes my main character eats it when we start Horde of the Dragon Queen this weekend.

Throw Hex on whatever you're attacking and you've morphed into a Cuisinart.
Example:
Ghostlore's Ninja Build:
3rd level Pact Blade Warlock/6th level Shadow Monk (9th Level Character)

Agonizing Blast / Repelling Blast as Invocations
Polearm (Glaive/Naginata) as Pact Blade (assumes DM agrees to allowing this as a Monk specific weapon per PHB page 78. My DM was ok with this as he felt Pact Blade choice went well with character theme and it doesn't do any more damage than Eldritch Blast)
Polearm Master Feat (Level 4) (instead of stat upgrade)
Sentinel Feat (Level 8) (instead of stat upgrade)

1st Round (Ranged):
Cast Hex as bonus action (if within 90')
Eldritch Blast = 1d10+1d6(Hex)+ Cha. Dmg (Agonizing Blast). Not sure if Monk Extra Attack would apply here. If so, sweet. If not, no biggie.
Knock enemy back 10' with Repelling Blast if too close for comfort or into flame pit / over cliff for ****s and warlock giggles.
Move 45' as desired (Monk speedy speedy), preferably away from everyone and into the shadows (cause that just looks cool).

2nd Round
If dim or dark, Bonus Action to Shadow Step (pop) in 10' behind enemy.
Stabby Stabby melee attack (Glaive has reach), with Advantage on first attack (from shadow step). 1d10+1d6(Hex) +1d10+1d6(Hex) (2 attacks when you hit 5th level Monk) + Dex or Str (x2)
Step back up to your max move (speedy speedy 45') *assumes enemy only has 5' reach so you don't trigger attack of opp.

If any enemy moves closer to you on his turn, once he enters your reach, stabby stabby (Polearm Master Feat) 1d10+Dex or Str+1d6 for Hex (if original Hex recipient), otherwise no joy.
(Not sure how this rule will fly with my DM. RAW says "other creathers provoke an opp attack from you when they enter your reach", which seems to allude to the ability to perform multiple aoo's, but that seems a little too ninja-esque. Maybe limit number of aoo's to dex bonus or prof bonus? That might work. Digressing...)

In any case, whatever you and the DM agree upon, whomever you hit with attack of opportunity, his Speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn because of Sentinel Feat. Booyah. Suck it creatures with disengage-as-a-bonus-action.

3rd round you melee attack again. Stabby Stabby 1d10+1d6Hex+1d10+1d6(Hex) +Dex or Str (x2) + spend 1 Ki as bonus action for two additional unarmed attacks 1d6+1d6(Hex) + 1d6+1d6(Hex) + spend 1 Ki (if you want) to attempt to Stun opponent.
and if you ever feel the heat coming instead of spending Ki as a bonus you can simply pop around using Shadow Step

With Monk's unarmored AC bonuses, the ability to deflect missiles, and the ability to zoom around the board (am I the only one who misses his Eladrin Warlock?), this might not be the most powerful build out there, but it has potential to do lots of damage while remaining relatively safe, and looks like it will definitely be tons of fun.

I should also note that it's late and I'm still no expert with the rules. If someone finds an error in my reasoning/math skills, please point it out. I won't be offended.

[Beige]

Way of the Shadow Monk + dip into warlock for Devil's sight? Yes, please. Toss in something like Eldritch Spear as the other invocation and run/teleport around from shadow to shadow peppering your enemy from 300' away. Want to add some ritual spells for good measure? Okay Pact of Tome. Or how about find familiar for a psuedodragon pet? Okay Pact of Chain.


My next character will be a shadow monk dipping into warlock. It should be so nice that about 50% of me hopes my main character eats it when we start Horde of the Dragon Queen this weekend.

to be fair with ho your main characters been screwed, that's sadly understandable

[Z3ro]

(Not sure how this rule will fly with my DM. RAW says "other creathers provoke an opp attack from you when they enter your reach", which seems to allude to the ability to perform multiple aoo's, but that seems a little too ninja-esque. Maybe limit number of aoo's to dex bonus or prof bonus? That might work. Digressing...)


No limit needed; any opportunity attack uses your reaction, of which you only get one.

[Ghostlore]

No limit needed; any opportunity attack uses your reaction, of which you only get one.

Thanks. Though I rather love the idea of being an uber ninja, the reaction rule is balanced and makes sense. I appreciate you pointing this out for me.

[Vintrastorm]

Thanks. Though I rather love the idea of being an uber ninja, the reaction rule is balanced and makes sense. I appreciate you pointing this out for me.

Also, for number 3, when you use your unarmed strike you have to close the distance. Reach on glaive is +5ft but not on your flurry of blows/bonus attacks. (You might have thought about that already, though...)

[Person_Man]

I would say that Invocation selection should be based only on Warlock class level (and not character level). Otherwise, you could pick up a second attack (Thirsting Blade), at-will Arcane Eye (Visions of Distant Realms), or Witch Sight (true seeing-ish).

Preventing quick access to the Extra Attack in particular is important, because it discourages short dips for builds that use weapons. (Rogue 2/Barbarian 3/Fighter 2/Warlock 2/etc).

[UHF]

I would say that Invocation selection should be based only on Warlock class level (and not character level). Otherwise, you could pick up a second attack (Thirsting Blade), at-will Arcane Eye (Visions of Distant Realms), or Witch Sight (true seeing-ish).

Preventing quick access to the Extra Attack in particular is important, because it discourages short dips for builds that use weapons. (Rogue 2/Barbarian 3/Fighter 2/Warlock 2/etc).
I think your take is right.

The other thing is that low level abilities are useful at high levels in 5e, so letting your players skip the lower level stuff for high level stuff, is too good to be true IMO.

One question folks... but what does At-Will mean in 5e?


Armor of Shadows
You can cast mage armor on yourself at will, without expending a spell slot or material components.

Beast Speech
You can cast "Speak with Animals" at-will, without expending a spell slot.

Beguiling Influence
You gain proficiency in the Deception and Persuasion skills. [Seems Odd, but it does add more skill slots for a skill maven.]

Book Of Ancient Secrets
Meh... it will just be first level rituals.

Devil's Sight
You can see normally in darkness, both magical and non-magical, to a distance of 120 feet. [HELLO.. HUMANS NEED THIS.]

Eldritch Sight
You can cast detect magic at will, without expending a spell slot.

Eyes Of The Rune Keeper
You can read all writing.

Fiendish Vigor
Meh...

Gaze Of Two Minds
Meh...

Mask Of Many Faces
You can cast disguise self at will, without expending a spell slot. [THIS IS ROLE PLAYING GOLD]

Misty Visions
You can cast silent image at will, without expending a spell slot or material components. [THIS IS ROLE PLAYING GOLD]

Thief Of Five Fates
You can cast bane once using a warlock spell slot. You can’t do so again until you finish a long rest. [HANDY]

Voice Of the Chain Master
Prerequisite: Pact of the Chain feature
You can communicate telepathically with your familiar and perceive through your familiar’s senses as long as you are on the same plane of existence. Additionally, while perceiving through your familiar’s senses, you can also speak through your familiar in your own voice, even if your familiar is normally incapable of speech.

[Shadow]

One question folks... but what does At-Will mean in 5e?

It means you can cast the spell as often as you want, and it never uses a spell slot. It's magic that you command at-will, similar to a cantrip, but at a different level.

[UHF]

It means you can cast the spell as often as you want, and it never uses a spell slot. It's magic that you command at-will, similar to a cantrip, but at a different level.
Ahhh... The Shadow knows...

[Beige]

I'd say if it's a class feature in the class features section of the class description, it uses class level. if it's from elsewhere in the book - such as a cantrip - it uses total level.

afterall, taking the wording from a warlock class feature (and it is a class feature) to mean any level would mean I could dip fighter 2 and get full action surge, and dip rogue 2 for full sneak, as both just mention level, not specifically rogue/fighter level, like the invocation dosen't specifically mention warlock level...

[numerek]

I would say that Invocation selection should be based only on Warlock class level (and not character level). Otherwise, you could pick up a second attack (Thirsting Blade), at-will Arcane Eye (Visions of Distant Realms), or Witch Sight (true seeing-ish).

Preventing quick access to the Extra Attack in particular is important, because it discourages short dips for builds that use weapons. (Rogue 2/Barbarian 3/Fighter 2/Warlock 2/etc).

Needs to be warlock 3 because you need the Pact of the Blade.