Help me make this Warhulk shine...

[Starchild7309]

OK so I rolled really well for stats starting with
Str 18
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 17 (was allowed to reroll one stat and had to stick to the roll)
Cha 10

I am going with the half orge race so stats after are
Str 24
Dex 13
Con 18
Int 10
Wis 17
Cha 8

He hasn't hit play yet so he stat blocks out like this:

Half Ogre Fighter 6/Warhulk 5

Size/Type: Large/Giant
HD: 6d10/5d12+44 (137 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 14(before equipment) (10+4 Nat+1 dex-1 size)
Base attack/Grap: +6/+1, +19
Attack: +19/+14
Full Attack: (thinking of going with a heavy flail and using strong arm bracers to bring up the weapon size)
Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft
Special attacks:Great Swing, Mighty Swing, Mighty Rock throwing, Improved Bull Rush, Overrun, Spring Attack
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft, No Time to Think, Giant Blood
Saves: Fort +13 Ref+4 Will +6
Abilities: Str 36, Dex 13, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 8
Skills +27 Climb, +27 Jump
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Bullrush, Awesome Blow, Improved Overrun




So thats how I built him thus far. I want to get him as optimized as a warhulk can be in 11 levels with a +1 or +2 LA....still discussing which it should be. I am open to suggestions and as I said this is without any equipment. So if you have any ideas where I could improve it, things I could change, anything at all, please let me know. I will try to answer any questions you have also.

All core books, forgotten realms, any official Wizards book, Dragon compendium, and I think thats it are open to use. No flaws, no uber cheese...The group is fairly highly optimized, and I want to make this guy as good as possible. Feats can change, skills can change...he hasn't hit the table yet so everything is fluid except the assignment of the stats.

[Segev]

There is a weapon tag - I think it's "Skillful" - which is a +1 equivalent that makes the wielder proficient with the weapon and gives him at least a 3/4 BAB. You want this on a Spiked Chain. By the time you've got more than half your fighter levels in war hulk, it is improving your BAB.

Alternatively, if you're willing to forgo some feats and go for 7 levels of a base class, go Cleric instead of Fighter and pick up Divine Power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/divinePower.htm) with DMM:Persist. You may need to work on your number of turn/rebuke attempts, though, due to your low cha mod.

Your high Wisdom would make sense with such a build. Be a cleric of a god with the Strength domain, perhaps?

[The Random NPC]

Here's a thing I made a long time ago.

Half Ogre
Half-Ogre 2/Spirit Lion Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/Dungeon Fighter Fighter 6/Warhulk 10

Avg. HP: 155.5

Str 22 +20 (Warhulk)+4 (Level Up) = 46
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 10

FORT +17
REF +6
WILL +5

Feats
1 Power Attack
Fight 1 Improved Bull Rush
3 Knockback
Fight 4 Cleave
6 Shock Trooper
9 Exotic Weapon Proficency (Spiked Chain)
12 Great Cleave
15 Improved Initiative or Extend Rage

+1 Skillful(+2) Spiked chain

Starts with a Charge, Spirt Lion Barbarian lets him full attack on a charge, Whirling Frenzy lets him get an extra Attack while raging. Every time he Power Attacks on a charge, the penalty goes to AC, so he Power Attacks for 15. His attack bonus is +32(+34 while raging)(-2 frenzy). his damage is 2d4+58 (60 rage) to everyone in 20 ft 4 times. Everyone he hits is Bull rushed at 1d20+48 (50 rage)(Average of 58.5 or 11 squares- opponent's check) and for every square he moves them back, he can move them one square to the left or right. If he cause them to hit a wall they take 8d6+ 54 (56 rage) bludgeoning damage. If two people hit each other, they are tripped (1d20+18) (20 rage). Anytime he drops a foe due to damage, he gets an extra attack.

[Starchild7309]

OK so Skillful is a +2, which would work, but I don't want to go the spiked chain/reach road. I am seeing this character as more of a big angry smash type. Either bare hands, but probably with a club or flail. I also want to avoid going into the hulking hurler too....that gets too abusive. IMHO.

[Flickerdart]

OK so Skillful is a +2, which would work, but I don't want to go the spiked chain/reach road. I am seeing this character as more of a big angry smash type. Either bare hands, but probably with a club or flail. I also want to avoid going into the hulking hurler too....that gets too abusive. IMHO.
In that case, your weapon of choice is a greatclub and you want the Three Mountains feat. Hit a guy twice, they have to make a save (based on your Strength score!) or be Nauseated for a round.

Also consider Knockdown and Knock-back to bring your Strength to bear in multiple ways.

[Magesmiley]

OK so Skillful is a +2, which would work, but I don't want to go the spiked chain/reach road. I am seeing this character as more of a big angry smash type. Either bare hands, but probably with a club or flail. I also want to avoid going into the hulking hurler too....that gets too abusive. IMHO.

Well... even avoiding the Hulking Hurler, a very heavy improvised weapon will still do a bundle of damage (back section of Complete Warrior). You might consider packing part of a tree around to hit things with. Or for that matter you could go with a style of grabbing whatever is laying around (boulders, trees, wagons, horses, etc.) and hitting stuff with it . With that high of a strength it shouldn't be too hard to just rip something loose.

[Mithril Leaf]

Bestiary of Krynn has the Proto Creature Template, which gives MOAR STRENGTH!

[AvatarVecna]

In order for the War Hulk to truly shine, they need a high BAB to complement their high Str. Since you're starting at a high level (ECL 13, unless I miss my guess), you can get the necessary spells easily: Divine Power can be DMM persisted to last all day, for a continuous full BAB and +6 Str enhancement. Righteous Might (assuming someone had enough cleric levels to cast it and a Wis like yours) can be cast often enough to be quite useful. Why Righteous might? Because it makes you grow. According to the rules governing PrC qualification, losing prereqs loses you the class features, but not the class itself; thus, a medium character who can grow to large size can choose when they have the War Hulk benefits. This means that No Time to Think isn't always on, which will always be a good option to have.

As far as Medium races go, Goliath is the best for what you want: compared to the Half-Ogre, the Goliath gets less Str, more Int, more Cha, one additional class level, and all the good parts of being Large without the downsides (the downsides include having No Time to Think always on). They also have that Barbarian racial ACF that let's them grow to Large; this could be an additional source of War Hulk activation, if you don't mind dipping barbarian. Which you shouldn't, because pounce; this characters feats should focus on standard ubercharger stuff, by the way.

Assuming your DM allows LA buyoff, you can get up to 3 LA by ECL 18. I recommend just taking the Blooded One template and leaving it at that; the Str is nice, the Con is nice, the free feat is nice, and even potentially useful. Blooded One Goliath can have all their LA bought off by this point for a bit of XP. If you wanted more War Hulk levels, and didn't want to dip barbarian, I instead recommend the Feral template from Savage Species; it gives claws, rend, pounce, extra Str, and fast healing for the same +1 LA. If you don't mind being a little behind at the start, take both, just for the lulz.

If you find yourself extremely strapped for feats, there's a cheesy source that uses Dragon Mag material: an alternate fighter that gets 4 EWPs at 1st lvl. I recommend trading away three of them via DCS and using the last one to grab either a spiked chain or a minotaur greathammer.

As for feats, every ubercharger needs Shock Trooper. Battle Jump and Leap Attack are also good. Some other good ones are Combat Brute and Knockback, both of which combine quite nicely with Shock Trooper. The only other feat worth mentioning is Roll With It (http://dndtools.eu/feats/savage-species--47/roll-with-it--2468/): DR 2/-, stacks with itself and other things, and only requires Con 20 and Toughness? Sold! War Hulk gives you Toughness three times; if nothing else, DCS these into Roll With It, or something more useful than a few measly hp.

[Gwendol]

Seconding goliath and barbarian instead of half-ogre and fighter levels. As for feats, you really want PA, Imp Bull Rush, Knock-Back, and Cleave as soon as possible. Knock down is also a good feat, and I would trade away Awesome blow as the feats suggested are just plain better.

[OldTrees1]

ECL 11-12: Goliath[+1 LA] Barbarian(Spirit Lion, Mountain Rage, Wolf Totem) 2 / Fighter(Dungeon Crasher) 3 / Warhulk 4 / Warblade 1 /Fighter +1

Feats: 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th
Bonus Feats: 2nd(Improved Trip), 3rd, 11th
In order: Extra Rage[1], Improved Trip[2], Power Attack[3], Cleave[3], Knock-down[6], Improved Bullrush[9], Knockback[11]

Warblade Maneuvers: Bolstering Voice(Stance), White Raven Tactics, Steel Wind[prereq], Iron Heart Surge


Hulk out 3 times per day, each attack hits 3 squares(Mighty Swing) and grants a Bullrush attempt(Knockback) and a Trip attempt(Knock-down). Success on the Trip grants another Mighty Swing(Improved Trip). Success on the Knockback grants Dungeoncrasher damage(Dungeoncrasher).

White Raven Tactics gives you an action panic button. Iron Heart Surge gives you a condition panic button. Both buttons can be recharged in battle.

[SaintRidley]

It's a minor thing, but I'm looking up there and you don't appear to have put in your 4 and 8 HD ability increases -> so there's +2 Str right away.

[Starchild7309]

It's a minor thing, but I'm looking up there and you don't appear to have put in your 4 and 8 HD ability increases -> so there's +2 Str right away.

I did add it in the spoilered section.

I am wary to go with Cleric since the Cha is so low. With DMM I also never have a high enough spell level to bump it up to a persist and not enough rebukes to do so. Also, our DM does do EXP penalty so spreading out base classes for dips won't work. I could go barbarian, but from previous encounters, much of the campaign is in tight quarters so finding room to charge has been difficult. I do like the Proto template, though not sure the DM will go for a dragonlance thing.

[Segev]

I'd honestly go straight cleric, rather than dipping. Strength domain plus whatever else strikes your fancy.

Get Cha-boosters, either item-form or from your own spell(s), and maybe a pair of Night Sticks. You only need enough to DMM:Persist one spell (Divine Power) daily. Two Night Sticks is +8 turn attempts by themselves (though you must hold both at once). There is also the Extra Turning feat if you want it.


Failing that...you could cross-class UMD, but you'll need help to get it to the point you can reliably make the DC to activate a staff of Divine Power (and you'll need to get shrunk to Medium to lose your "no time to think" class "feature" that would prevent you from using UMD).

[Starchild7309]

Still not sure how this is supposed to work with the Divine Power. I might sound ridiculous, but DP is a 4th level spell correct? I am not sure how the rules work but to bump it to a persisted spell it would have to be a 10th lvl spell. Not sure how everyone else plays, but we can't Meta magic into a slot we don't have access to. Unless there is a rule somewhere that says you can that I can show the DM.

[torrasque666]

Its where DMM comes in to play. You use turn attempts to lover the spell slot level. If you have 6 turn attempts, you can cast it for a 4th level slot.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Buy off the level adjustment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), a +1 LA costs 3,000 xp and can be bought off by ECL 4, a +2 LA costs 15,000 xp and can be bought off by ECL 10.

Your feats are completely wrong, you should focus on making your character really good at something, not take a bunch of feats that look good but only make your character mediocre at a bunch of different things. Get the Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature for Fighter in Dungeonscape. Make your Intelligence high enough to get Combat Expertise (13), your Dexterity high enough to get TWF (15), and take two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (No Time For Book Learning (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258440-The-quot-Best-quot-Flaws#30)) to get two extra feats.

Take Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, EWP: Kusari-Gama, TWF, Improved Bull Rush, Knock-Back in Races of Stone, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown). A Kusari-Gama is a light reach weapon found in the DMG on pages 144-145. Get Gloves of the Balanced Hand in MIC and you'll have Improved TWF. You won't benefit from power attacking, but you'll need to power attack for -2 to use Knock-Back. Every time you hit someone you'll get a free bull rush check to knock them back, and if you knock them into a solid obstacle your Dungeoncrasher ability will deal an extra 8d6 + three times your strength bonus points of damage, and you can full attack for four hits that each get this additional damage. War Hulk eventually lets you hit multiple targets with every attack, including attacks of opportunity, and at its tenth level every attack you make his every opponent in reach. You can sweep everyone into a corner, knock them all on the ground, and dungeoncrash them against the wall. If one of them tries to get up your AoO will dungeoncrash the whole pile again. If one of them tries to escape your AoO knocks them down again and dungeoncrashes the whole pile.

[Starchild7309]

Ok thanks, I get the DMM now, just not sure if I want to go that way yet.

Secondly, we don't play with buy offs....we talked about it and all agreed.

The stats for this character are pretty much set, I can remove two from Str to put in another stat, but can't swap them so I could bump the dex or the Int (still not high enough yet) if I am going with Half ogre, which I do believe I am going with.

Also, flaws as stated previously are not allowed. Another thing we all agreed on.

I am considering the dungeon crasher ability though.

[Starchild7309]

So I have decided to go with the dungeoncrasher variant and the proto template. Still not decided on exact feats.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So I have decided to go with the dungeoncrasher variant and the proto template. Still not decided on exact feats.

Definitely get Knock-Back in Races of Stone, and forget you ever saw Awesome Blow. Also be sure to get Combat Reflexes, and try to get a reach weapon plus some way of attacking adjacent targets (Glaive + Armor Spikes, or Spiked Chain or Kusari-Gama or similar if you want to spend a feat). Some means of flying (Feathered Wings fiendish graft from Fiend Folio) will allow you to fly above an opponent and use Knock-Back to bull rush them into the ground, guaranteeing you'll get Dungeoncrasher damage on every attack even in an open field.

[Divide by Zero]

As far as Medium races go, Goliath is the best for what you want: compared to the Half-Ogre, the Goliath gets less Str, more Int, more Cha, one additional class level, and all the good parts of being Large without the downsides (the downsides include having No Time to Think always on). They also have that Barbarian racial ACF that let's them grow to Large; this could be an additional source of War Hulk activation, if you don't mind dipping barbarian. Which you shouldn't, because pounce; this characters feats should focus on standard ubercharger stuff, by the way.

Bonus style points: be a half-dragon goliath, so you grow wings whenever you rage.

[AvatarVecna]

Bonus style points: be a half-dragon goliath, so you grow wings whenever you rage.

Bonus munckkin points: become a dragonborn with the wings aspect instead, so you can fly all of tthe time, and don't have to put up with tons of LA.

[Starchild7309]

So I went with the half ogre...played him last night. Worked out amazingly using some of the suggestions. Anything to look towards with future levels? Specific equipment I should try to find?