Psionic early PrC entry?

[Sith_Happens]

So at this point the various tricks to meeting "Able to cast Xth level spells" prerequisites earlier than normal (Precocious Apprentice, Sanctum Spell, the list goes on) are pretty well known here in the Playground and on the Internet in general. My question is, are there any similar techniques for early fulfilling of "Able to manifest Xth level powers?" The only one I've been able to find is Ardent with Practiced Manifester, which is only relevant to multiclassed characters, not to mention that I'm sure plenty of people would rather go Psion than Ardent whenever possible.

[Rubik]

So at this point the various tricks to meeting "Able to cast Xth level spells" prerequisites earlier than normal (Precocious Apprentice, Sanctum Spell, the list goes on) are pretty well known here in the Playground and on the Internet in general. My question is, are there any similar techniques for early fulfilling of "Able to manifest Xth level powers?" The only one I've been able to find is Ardent with Practiced Manifester, which is only relevant to multiclassed characters, not to mention that I'm sure plenty of people would rather go Psion than Ardent whenever possible.Bloodlines would do it.

Any race with a 2nd level psi-like ability would also do it, except there's a good chance for RHD and LA.

An ardent with Practiced Manifester who contracts lycanthropy and rebuilds so that the RHD come first could also work -- just cure the lycanthropy after.

You could also pay someone for a Psychic Chirurgery.

Or at high levels, an illithid savant can eat a higher level manifester's manifesting ability.

[Segev]

Requires a cooperative Bard of sufficient level, but Inspire Greatness + Practiced Manifester is +2 ML. If you could arrange to learn your Ardent power while under that effect, you'd be able to learn one at least 1 level higher.

An Ardent can also use Overchannel to increase the maximum number of power points he could spend on a power, which would let him learn powers of higher level than normally expected. At first, he'd only be a level ahead, though. So learning a level 2 power at level 2.

[sleepyphoenixx]

An ardent with Practiced Manifester who contracts lycanthropy and rebuilds so that the RHD come first could also work -- just cure the lycanthropy after.

A lycanthropes animal HD can never be the first HD so that one won't work. While there is no explicit rule against splitting the animal HD afaik it would certainly be questionable.

The main problem i see is that Heighten Power doesn't exist in 3.5 psionics. In fact i can't recall any effect that heightens power level that isn't from a 3.0 source.

[Fax Celestis]

A lycanthropes animal HD can never be the first HD so that one won't work.

So do it with the Phrenic template then. 5 HD gets you a PLA of a 3rd level power.

[Sith_Happens]

The main problem i see is that Heighten Power doesn't exist in 3.5 psionics. In fact i can't recall any effect that heightens power level that isn't from a 3.0 source.

Which ones can you recall that are? They might still be valid.

[Rubik]

An Ardent can also use Overchannel to increase the maximum number of power points he could spend on a power, which would let him learn powers of higher level than normally expected. At first, he'd only be a level ahead, though. So learning a level 2 power at level 2.Since Overchannel only works while actively manifesting, I don't think this works, unless you actively level-up while manifesting a power.


A lycanthropes animal HD can never be the first HD so that one won't work. While there is no explicit rule against splitting the animal HD afaik it would certainly be questionable.So I guess that means you need to be at least level 2 pre-lycanthropy. Push the animal HD between the two levels.


The main problem i see is that Heighten Power doesn't exist in 3.5 psionics. In fact i can't recall any effect that heightens power level that isn't from a 3.0 source.Magic Mantle and the slot-to-pp conversions from mind mage are your friends.

[Chronos]

Is it really enough to have an Nth-level power as a psi-like ability? Spell-like abilities don't work for the corresponding requirement for spells.

[Rubik]

Is it really enough to have an Nth-level power as a psi-like ability? Spell-like abilities don't work for the corresponding requirement for spells.Manifesting via class is explicitly a psi-like ability, so the two are equivalent aside from the differences explicitly pointed out in the manifesting and psi-like abilities' sections.

[Segev]

Since Overchannel only works while actively manifesting, I don't think this works, unless you actively level-up while manifesting a power.

To avoid hashing this around and around, I will acknowledge that there are those who think this is a genuine limitation. I share my counter-argument only so people know what it is; I understand that it is not persuasive to all who read it.

All the Ardent requires is that you be able to manifest enough PP on a single power to manifest the power. If you have Overchannel, when manifesting a power, your ML increases by 1 or more, allowing you to spend 1 or more PP over your usual limit. At any time, you may choose to use Overchannel when manifesting any power.

You therefore have the ability, on any power, to manifest as if you had a higher ML than your actual Ardent level.

Therefore, you have the ability to manifest a power whose PP cost is higher than your Ardent level; you just have to Overchannel to do it. Nowhere in the rules does the Ardent say you have to be able to do it without using Overchannel (or even a broader restriction that would cover Overchannel).

Ergo, using Overchannel, you can spend enough PP to manifest the power. Therefore, Ardent says you can learn that power. Again: it doesn't say you have to be able to spend that much PP WITHOUT using Overchannel. It just says you have to be able to spend that much PP on a power. Which you can, because you can Overchannel.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Mind Mage is 3.0. Heighten Power is also 3.0. Mind Mage comes to late to be useful for early entry. Heighten would actually work if you combine it with a boost in ML or one of the pp cost reducers.
The standard "it wasn't errataed so it's still valid" doesn't really fly though since the whole system has been replaced. Importing anything from 3.0 psionics is highly questionable even if it isn't explictly cheese.

Magic Mantle is worded so vaguely that you can interpret pretty much anything into it. Doesn't mean any sane DM will allow your StP Erudite to take levels in Incantatrix and let them progress manifesting or applying metamagic feats to psionics.
If he does any early entry question for psionics would be answered with "get Magic Mantle, see spellcaster early entry tricks", so there's really no point in debating it.

I don't know every way to get a PLA off the top of my head but unless i'm mistaken you can't get them at an early enough ECL to really qualify as early entry. I don't think there are any monsters with PLAs over 1st level that don't have tons of racial HD. Phrenic needs at least level 5 to get a power that's not 1st level.
Unless there is a way to get a PLA of 2nd or higher level at ECL 3 or lower i wouldn't really consider it early entry. That's the cutoff point where most early entry tricks are useful in my experience.

The only thing i know of that works reliably is getting 3rd level powers for 2 levels of ardent. Unless your DM is very permissive with the Substitute Mantle ACF the ardent is pretty limited though.

[Vaz]

Manifesting via class is explicitly a psi-like ability, so the two are equivalent aside from the differences explicitly pointed out in the manifesting and psi-like abilities' sections.
It is? I know it's often mentioned, but I can't find a quote during meagre searching.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It is? I know it's often mentioned, but I can't find a quote during meagre searching.



Psi-Like Abilities (Ps)

The manifestation of powers by a psionic character is considered a psi-like ability, as is the manifestation of powers by creatures without a psionic class (creatures with the psionic subtype, also simply called psionic creatures). Usually, a psionic creature’s psi-like ability works just like the power of that name. A few psi-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

This is filler text.

[Vaz]

Any actual link to that, cheers.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Any actual link to that, cheers.

Right here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicPowersOverview.htm#psiLikeAbilities).