Psionics Only Campaign?

[Psykenthrope]

Hey, looking for some suggestions here.

I'm thinking of trying to run a pathfinder game in the future where the only source of supernatural power is from psionics. I'd be using the material from the Ultimate Psionics book from dreamscarred press.
I'd probably be allowing classes like barbarian and monk to keep the little things they get.

One thing that I'm wondering is if the paladin and ranger should be reworked to be psionic, or if i'd be better off removing them?

Other than that, general suggestions on how to structure the world would be appreciated.
Or maybe people know of a suitable campaign setting that already exists?

[Yora]

I usually use psionics as the only magic system in my campaigns. The only thing that's missing is a working healing spell. I think pathfinder has some special class that works around it, but I simply made a power that heals 3 hp per power point. Other than that, it's an alround magic system.

I still use rangers but simply don't give them spells. I think in Pathfinder there is the Skirmisher archetype, which adds some other abilities to replace them. Maybe there's a noncasting Paladin archetype too?

[Psykenthrope]

I usually use psionics as the only magic system in my campaigns. The only thing that's missing is a working healing spell. I think pathfinder has some special class that works around it, but I simply made a power that heals 3 hp per power point. Other than that, it's an alround magic system.

I still use rangers but simply don't give them spells. I think in Pathfinder there is the Skirmisher archetype, which adds some other abilities to replace them. Maybe there's a noncasting Paladin archetype too?

I think there is? I've got the APG right here, so I can check.

Yeah, it looks like the Warrior of the Holy Light doesn't get spells, and then it looks like there's another on the SRD.

I might have to do some fiddling to make other archetypes compatible with those so that players who want to use those classes don't feel trapped in one build.

[JusticeZero]

The Egoist and Vitalist can heal. However there is an issue with the lack of an analog to the wand of Lesser Vigor/Cure Light Wounds. You can use a dorje of Natural Healing, but cost per HP is higher and you can't easily heal people who don't have UMD without house rules.

[Agrippa]

As far I'm concerned 3.5 psionics makes for a great sorcery/inherent spell casting system. Add in Tome of Battle-style maneuvers for warriors and Mythic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic) rules for non-casters and I'm happy.

[Yora]

The Egoist and Vitalist can heal. However there is an issue with the lack of an analog to the wand of Lesser Vigor/Cure Light Wounds. You can use a dorje of Natural Healing, but cost per HP is higher and you can't easily heal people who don't have UMD without house rules.

A common exploit doesn't work? Another point for psionics.

[JusticeZero]

That's as non-exploit as it comes. I consider the need for a healer for downtime healing to be a critical bug that renders the game borderline unworkable under many circumstances. I have to houserule downtime healing methods for groups all the time if I didn't find a player who enjoys being the walking bandaid dispenser, which is a serious flaw in the game. There is absolutely no excuse for a game to be designed such that one player cannot play what they want to in order for the party to be viable; games are, by definition, supposed to be fun and forcing people to play characters they find to be non-fun defeats the purpose of it being a game.

[Psyren]

Other than that, general suggestions on how to structure the world would be appreciated.
Or maybe people know of a suitable campaign setting that already exists?

DSP's Third Dawn setting is exclusively psionic. You can also run a game set in the psionics-heavy part of another setting - Riedra in Eberron, Vudra in Golarion or just about anywhere in Dark Sun.

[Dunsparce]

There are two variants of both spell-less paladins and spell-less rangers. One you might not want, because you gain spell-like abilities in its place, but the other spell-less variants instead grant them fighter bonus feats at the levels they'd normally gain a new spell level (4, 8, 11, and 14)

[Tulya]

Unlimited Psionics has psionic archetypes for the Ranger and Paladin that swap out spellcasting.

The Pack Leader Ranger gains manifesting from the Marksman or Gifted Blade list, and has a limited Collective ability to share buffs with.

The Purifier Paladin trades anti-Evil for anti-Aberration/psionic creature abilities, and its manifesting is off of the Gifted Blade list.


Between those archetypes and others that drop spellcasting, there should be a fair amount of options without Vancian spellcasting.

[Ansem]

Only thing Psionics lack is buff for others and curing/healing.
But for yourself and to fill the roles, it does every job (and half even better than spellcasters)

[Psyren]

Psionics is worse at:

Healing others (HP and status effects)
Buffing others
Summoning/Calling
Necromancy
Illusion
Movement/Travel (flight, telelportation, planar travel etc.)

Psionics is better at:

Divination
Enchantment
Evocation
Creation
Shapeshifting
Action Economy
Self-sufficiency (offensive and defensive in one list)

[Leviting]

When it comes to summoning, psionics does have astral construct, which has a bunch of augment able options, all in one power. Of course, you still can't gate solars.

[Daishain]

If someone wants to play healer, point them towards being an Ardent with the life mantle, and possibly take the Sangehirn PrC later on. Such a character wouldn't be spectacular, but they could be tooled into a rather tough Gish not too unlike the basic cleric (though not as versatile.), especially if they dip in one or two Psywar levels.
If no one wants to play healer, just make sure simple downtime means of recovery are available. Houserule something in if you have to. Frankly, in my opinion, needing to spend significant time and resources to heal party members in between encounters should be an exception to the norm, and reserved for grievous wounds and nasty status effects.

Beyond that, you as DM don't need to worry about as many game changing abilities, but there are still plenty left. Running through the handbooks for the psion, wilder, and psionic artificer should point you towards most of the abusable stuff.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would port a copy of Psionic Repair damage for HP. 3d8+ML of healing, +d8 augment available.

You run into issues that Psionics isn't as developed as magic. Some things have specific magical cures that don't easily match a psionic power.

[caimbuel]

Psionics is worse at:

Healing others (HP and status effects)
Buffing others
Summoning/Calling
Necromancy
Illusion
Movement/Travel (flight, telelportation, planar travel etc.)

Psionics is better at:

Divination
Enchantment
Evocation
Creation
Shapeshifting
Action Economy
Self-sufficiency (offensive and defensive in one list)

Almost, a good Vitalist can heal better then anything I have seen in many of my campaigns since 3.0 started. And as far as buffs go they are a tad more limited, but a vitalist or Tactician can spend 1 more pp to throw buffs to addition people on their network. One thing I highly recommend is a human Vitalist tho, the extra powers known is a life saver. After lvl 7 I think it is a vitalist can doe a range touch to heal CL+WIS, not uber powerful, but an all day usable if I remember.

I am running an all psionics campaign with a Vitalist, Psion(dual telepath/egoist) Psy Warrior, and marksman. They are hitting AP+4 as normal with AP+6 for hard, and no deaths. All characters are optimized, and are built to be a spoke on the wheel of the team. And damn if that vitalist can't keep that Psy Warrior up, as well as the temporary Astral Construct.she picked up with a feet. The psion has many options of stunning, or dazing critters, and can dish some damage if no other option.

Over all I think this system has advantages to magic, every character is T2 to T4 IMO, and no one gets out paced by anyone else. Damn if a half giant expanding to huge does not do some serious damage, reach etc. Mine went two weapon, and with pounce mechanic from early on this was not an issue.

I won't lie, I have had to house rule a bit at low levels for healing, but after about 4th they were off and running, never looking back.

[Fouredged Sword]

Almost, a good Vitalist can heal better then anything I have seen in many of my campaigns since 3.0 started. And as far as buffs go they are a tad more limited, but a vitalist or Tactician can spend 1 more pp to throw buffs to addition people on their network. One thing I highly recommend is a human Vitalist tho, the extra powers known is a life saver. After lvl 7 I think it is a vitalist can doe a range touch to heal CL+WIS, not uber powerful, but an all day usable if I remember.

I am running an all psionics campaign with a Vitalist, Psion(dual telepath/egoist) Psy Warrior, and marksman. They are hitting AP+4 as normal with AP+6 for hard, and no deaths. All characters are optimized, and are built to be a spoke on the wheel of the team. And damn if that vitalist can't keep that Psy Warrior up, as well as the temporary Astral Construct.she picked up with a feet. The psion has many options of stunning, or dazing critters, and can dish some damage if no other option.

Over all I think this system has advantages to magic, every character is T2 to T4 IMO, and no one gets out paced by anyone else. Damn if a half giant expanding to huge does not do some serious damage, reach etc. Mine went two weapon, and with pounce mechanic from early on this was not an issue.

I won't lie, I have had to house rule a bit at low levels for healing, but after about 4th they were off and running, never looking back.

I ran into a problem playing a pathfinder vitalist in a party. There appears to be no way to heal blindness in the pathfinder power set. Odd really, but I couldn't find a power to do it, but yeah, a sadist lifeleech vitalist can heal HP and buff like crazy and potentially generate free healing.

[Psyren]

Almost, a good Vitalist can heal better then anything I have seen in many of my campaigns since 3.0 started. And as far as buffs go they are a tad more limited, but a vitalist or Tactician can spend 1 more pp to throw buffs to addition people on their network. One thing I highly recommend is a human Vitalist tho, the extra powers known is a life saver. After lvl 7 I think it is a vitalist can doe a range touch to heal CL+WIS, not uber powerful, but an all day usable if I remember.

Sorry I wasn't clear - I meant 3.5 with all of those :smallsmile: PF Psionics is on par with the first two and last one under the "worse" column, and when DSP's "7th Path" book comes out in the future they will gain necromancy options as well.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Wait... Psionic Necromancy? That is certainly interesting (yes I know Malhavoc already has a Psionic Lich), but I've always thought that messing up with life and death should have been left for "normal" magic, while Psionics should have gotten something exclusive to them, not sure what though.

Incidentally this thread is making me want to play a Psionic-only campaign or at least a full psionic party.

[Knaight]

Flat replacing the magic system with psionics works just fine. The Psion class is a pretty generic mage, with a few pretty generic specialization options; the only real difference is that the terminology borrows some scientific terms (though the definitions rarely follow).

[Psyren]

Wait... Psionic Necromancy? That is certainly interesting (yes I know Malhavoc already has a Psionic Lich), but I've always thought that messing up with life and death should have been left for "normal" magic, while Psionics should have gotten something exclusive to them, not sure what though.

Incidentally this thread is making me want to play a Psionic-only campaign or at least a full psionic party.

It focuses on the spiritual side of necromancy - stuff like séances, trances and possession, and of course psychometry with places associated with death. The new class (or maybe it'll be a new type of psion, I don't know if they've solidified it yet) will be the "Medium."

[JusticeZero]

There's stuff in test about ghosts, souls, and the ethereal. Lots of "I sense the spirits are angry" stuff.
Also, the terminology does not "borrow scientific terms", it borrows terms from archaic Greek.

[Eldest]

I ran into a problem playing a pathfinder vitalist in a party. There appears to be no way to heal blindness in the pathfinder power set. Odd really, but I couldn't find a power to do it, but yeah, a sadist lifeleech vitalist can heal HP and buff like crazy and potentially generate free healing.

I have actually had that problem come up in a game, and I got around it with a combination of a mind-controlled minion (she made the save by luck against the blinding effect, nobody else did), telling people what squares to aim for, and swapping out a power known for Synesthete asap.

[Psyren]

Also, the terminology does not "borrow scientific terms", it borrows terms from archaic Greek.

That's actually why people subconsciously make that connection - a lot of scientific terms are based on ancient Greek too.

(Please note that I myself find the aversion silly.)

[Dusk Eclipse]

It focuses on the spiritual side of necromancy - stuff like séances, trances and possession, and of course psychometry with places associated with death. The new class (or maybe it'll be a new type of psion, I don't know if they've solidified it yet) will be the "Medium."


There's stuff in test about ghosts, souls, and the ethereal. Lots of "I sense the spirits are angry" stuff.
Also, the terminology does not "borrow scientific terms", it borrows terms from archaic Greek.

Well in that case it does makes sense, colour me interested in this 7th Path book.

[Mithril Leaf]

I would also recommend porting into Pathfinder the psi-animate dead power from Hyperconscious.

[Knaight]

Also, the terminology does not "borrow scientific terms", it borrows terms from archaic Greek.

The term "energy" gets thrown around a lot, and while you aren't seeing Joules, energy is still a scientific term - and that's just one example, and one where the definition definitely didn't come along for the ride. It also uses archaic greek heavily (e.g. telekenesis), but there are scientific terms in use.

[Fouredged Sword]

I have actually had that problem come up in a game, and I got around it with a combination of a mind-controlled minion (she made the save by luck against the blinding effect, nobody else did), telling people what squares to aim for, and swapping out a power known for Synesthete asap.

Yeah, we got hit with a permanent blindness effect. Normally this wouldn't be a problem because it would just be a matter of sleeping for a night and curing the condition in the morning, no problem. Blindness/deafness is a irritatingly permanent low level spell. We ended up "Finding" a staff that let us cure the condition after the DM and I did a careful reading of psionic powers trying to find SOMETHING I could do to fix it.

[Tulya]

Yeah, we got hit with a permanent blindness effect. Normally this wouldn't be a problem because it would just be a matter of sleeping for a night and curing the condition in the morning, no problem. Blindness/deafness is a irritatingly permanent low level spell. We ended up "Finding" a staff that let us cure the condition after the DM and I did a careful reading of psionic powers trying to find SOMETHING I could do to fix it.

Blindness/Deafness is a permanent magical effect, subject to Dispel Psionics - though Dispel is a full spell level ahead and unreliable.

For mundane permanent blindness effects, I don't think there's an option until you gain access to 5th level powers. You can then behead your ally, Restore Extremity them a shiny new head, and Psionic Revivify them back to life. However, this is a pretty pp costly mechanism for removing blindness, and some might view it as a bit of an ... extreme measure. Just gouging out their eyes might work if it's not a neural poison. Alternately, you could just decide Restore Extremity doesn't require the whole extremity missing to regenerate its broken parts, but where's the fun in that?

[JusticeZero]

The term "energy" gets thrown around a lot, and while you aren't seeing Joules, energy is still a scientific term..
It's also a colloquial term, and it also gets used in a lot of religions. It's hardly "scientific", particularly since it's not even a favorite in science due to vagueness..

[Slithery D]

Resist Energy is a spell...

[Leviting]

The term "energy" gets thrown around a lot, and while you aren't seeing Joules, energy is still a scientific term - and that's just one example, and one where the definition definitely didn't come along for the ride. It also uses archaic greek heavily (e.g. telekenesis), but there are scientific terms in use.

Also, rather than just calling it heat metal, it's Agitate Matter. Because normal terms are for those without 18+ int.

[Novawurmson]

The party I GM for is an Elan Warlord, a Stalker/Psychic Warrior, a Half-Giant Metaforge (Aegis+Soulknife), and a Battle Medic Tactician. The only real problems they run into is 3/4 people being heavily melee (which they could easily avoid, but they insist on the current set-up).

Here's the Seventh Path powers playtest thread (http://dreamscarredpress.com/dragonfly/ForumsPro/viewtopic/t=3496.html).

[Psykenthrope]

Unlimited Psionics has psionic archetypes for the Ranger and Paladin that swap out spellcasting.

The Pack Leader Ranger gains manifesting from the Marksman or Gifted Blade list, and has a limited Collective ability to share buffs with.

The Purifier Paladin trades anti-Evil for anti-Aberration/psionic creature abilities, and its manifesting is off of the Gifted Blade list.


Between those archetypes and others that drop spellcasting, there should be a fair amount of options without Vancian spellcasting.

Ooh. I didn't know about those, I'll have to read those now.

[Psykenthrope]

Wait... Psionic Necromancy? That is certainly interesting (yes I know Malhavoc already has a Psionic Lich), but I've always thought that messing up with life and death should have been left for "normal" magic, while Psionics should have gotten something exclusive to them, not sure what though.

Incidentally this thread is making me want to play a Psionic-only campaign or at least a full psionic party.

Yeah, I'm also not too sure about psionic necromancy. Constructs seem to be more their thing. And even metacreativity is kinda weird.

[Ilorin Lorati]

It would be a mistake to call Athanatism simply "Psionic Necromancy", it's more stylistically in line with psychic mediums and Vodou than D&D concepts of necromancy.

[Prime32]

It would be a mistake to call Athanatism simply "Psionic Necromancy", it's more stylistically in line with psychic mediums and Vodou than western concepts of necromancy.Technically it would be closer to necromancy than the arcane/divine variety, since -mancy means "divination". :smalltongue:

[Ilorin Lorati]

Technically it would be closer to necromancy than the arcane/divine variety, since -mancy means "divination". :smalltongue:

Yeah, I corrected myself. :p