Pathfinder Samurai - Does it suck?

[atemu1234]

As much as CW Samurai in 3.5, and why it does/doesn't.

[Bhaakon]

The short answer is yes, the PF Samurai is vastly superior to the 3.5 version. Not so much because the PF Samurai is great shakes, but because the 3.5 version is just terrible. It's basically a fighter that spent all its bonus feats extremely poorly.

The PF version gets a mount, that alone gives it a big leg up on the 3.5 Samurai. The resolve mechanic is quite useful, allowing a PF Samurai to ignore a bunch of troublesome status conditions. It isn't railroaded into a sub-par fighting style (two-weapon fighting) like the 3.5 version is. It's less MAD, as its bonus damage mechanic is keyed to level instead of Charisma (which also means much more bonus damage in the long run). There are a number of smaller bonuses the PF Samurai enjoys (PF classes in general have a lot more minor abilities than 3.5 classes), but those are the big ones.

The 3.5 Samurai is better at intimidating enemies, and there are some potential there that might elevate a highly optimized 3.5 Samurai to fringe usefulness, but it's a lot of work for not much return.

[Beige]

The pathfinder samurai is a much, much better class than the 3.5 one, though in effect it shares the same major concept-killing flaw; its an inferior variant of another class, though this time instead of fighter, its cavalier

thats not to say the class is bad, but it remains in the lowest tier none the less (though PF has much less stable tier walls,so thats not as damning)

main advantages for the class are its mount (which is awesome), the banner ability which grants passive bonuses to all of your allies, and the aforementioned resolve which lets you shake off a lot of things thrown at you (satus conditions/saves/gain die hard) which at higher levels upgrades to negating critical hits. combined ith his chalange he can make a brilliant solo-enemy tanky character, locking their attention on you then throwing up honourable or last stand and just. not. budging

downside is you still have some non-syenergic abilities (mounter archery, in a class where everything else is melee focused), only 1 good save and you have nothing you can do but basic melee attacks; and of the other pure melee classes, a fighter can be just as tough with more options, a cavalier provides all your passive bonuses and more with the command ability, and superior damage with built-in ubercharger (no penalties for charging, hit bonus, free combat manouver in addition to normal attacks, double crit range and damage...) and a barbarian is faster, just as tough, more damaging and has utility in the form of trapsense

the samurai's one ACF, swordsaint, makes it have a few more options. it replaces your horsie and buffing powers with iajutsu strikes that deal damage in the same vein as a rogues sneak attack, pluss some debufing ability

so its not brilliant, but its playable, and cool as heck

also, swordsaint/gunslinger combo equals ultimate cowboy showdown XD

[Thurbane]

How does PF Samurai stack up against the 3.0 Oriental Adventures Samurai?

[Psyren]

Samurai are also eligible for the new Order of the Beast in ACG, which gets them a dragon mount.



downside is you still have some non-syenergic abilities (mounter archery, in a class where everything else is melee focused),

Thanks to composite bows there is some synergy there.

[Ravens_cry]

Plus, it's a nice bit of historical flavor for them to have *some* bow use.

[Thurbane]

How does PF Samurai stack up against the 3.0 Oriental Adventures Samurai?

Asking this one again...

[atemu1234]

Asking this one again...

Wasn't 3e just as bad as 3.5e Samurai?

[Thurbane]

From what I've read in most op threads, anyone wanting to play a Samurai in 3.X is urged to ask their DM if they can take the OA version instead of the CW version.

[Psyren]

From what I've read in most op threads, anyone wanting to play a Samurai in 3.X is urged to ask their DM if they can take the OA version instead of the CW version.

OA Samurai is indeed far better. It gets a ton of bonus feats like the fighter does, and also gets a scaling magic weapon, much like a base class version of the kensai. To enhance this weapon you only have to sacrifice gold/items - you don't have to spend XP, and you can even add properties to your weapon without having the requisite spells or feats.

In addition, though they get a katana and wakizashi like the CWar version, they aren't pigeonholed into TWF-ing with them.

[atemu1234]

OA Samurai is indeed far better. It gets a ton of bonus feats like the fighter does, and also gets a scaling magic weapon, much like a base class version of the kensai. To enhance this weapon you only have to sacrifice gold/items - you don't have to spend XP, and you can even add properties to your weapon without having the requisite spells or feats.

In addition, though they get a katana and wakizashi like the CWar version, they aren't pigeonholed into TWF-ing with them.

That is interesting. I'll look into it.

Now I'm wondering, which is better, the PF or the OA one?

[deuxhero]

Suck? Yes
As bad as CW Samurai? No.

PF Samurai is strictly inferior to Cavalier (trade the good stuff, mainly stuff it needs for the better archetypes, which wasn't a good class in the first place), but it certainly isn't an NPC class.

Hell, with ACG, Cavalier itself makes a better Samurai than the Samurai archetype. Take Daring Champion, Order of the Cockatrice, EWP: Wakazashi, Weapon Focus: Wakazashi, Slashing Grace (Wakazashi) and Piranha Strike and now you add twice your level (3 counting BAB)+dex in damage (blows before level 4 though) on every attack.

[Psyren]

That is interesting. I'll look into it.

Now I'm wondering, which is better, the PF or the OA one?

PF wins for sure - the mount makes sure of that. As for the other stuff, the PF one can craft magic weapons without spells just like the OA one can, but it isn't locked into its starting weapon (and won't need to atone if he loses it), plus he can also craft magic armor and even wondrous items. They also get the same number of feats (13.) Finally, the PF one gets additional, useful class features like Resolve and Challenge.

Basically the PF Samurai is like a combination of the OA Samurai, the 3.5 Knight and a dash of the Ranger.