Handy Haversack Vs Gold Coins

[Radialdiamond]

How many coins can fit in a Handy Haversack?

How about a Portable Hole?

Finally a Bag of Holding I II III?

[Yanisa]

DnD 3.5 put 50 cold coins per pound.
Some random site I found with Google (http://www.traditionaloven.com/metal/gold-converter.html) states that 1 cubic feet of gold weights 1203.7 pounds. So the weight limit is early made then the volume limit. Obviously gold coins are not a solid block and in reality would take a bit more space, but still nothing to worry about.

Minor Bag of Holding -> 50 pounds -> 2,500 gold coins
Handy haversack -> 120 pounds -> 6,000 gold coins
Bag of Holding Type I -> 250 pounds -> 12,500 gold coins
Bag of Holding Type II -> 500 pounds -> 25,000 gold coins
Bag of Holding Type III -> 1000 pounds -> 50,000 gold coins
Bag of Holding Type IV -> 1500 pounds -> 75,000 gold coins

Unlike the bags, a portable hole doesn't have a weight limit. Let's make this easy and pretend the portable hole is a cylinder. A portable hole is 6 feet in diameter and 10 feet deep. V=πr2h=π*6^2*10≈1130.97 cubic feet (https://www.google.nl/search?q=volume+of+a+cylinder&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=HAn_U7W9GtSfhQe70IGAAw#channel=sb&q=volume+of+a+cylinder+with+a+radius+of+6+feet+and +a+height+of+10+feet). Which means we can store 1203.7 * 1130.97 * 50 gold coins in it.
That 68,067,429.45 coins or 68 million coins.

Again in reality there would be less coins, because coins are still not solid blocks of golds. But this alone shows a portable bag probably carries more gold then you ever need.

[VexingFool]

50gp = 1 lb.

Handy Haversack can hold 120 lbs total. 6,000gp.
Bag of Holding I can hold 250 lbs. 12,500gp
Bag of Holding II can hold 500 lbs. 25,000gp
Bag of Holding III can hold 1000 lbs. 50,000gp
Bag of holding IV can hold 1500 lbs. 75,000gp

A portable hole has no weight limit and is only restricted by it's volume of 282 cubic feet.

Edit - Ninja'd by Yanisa. Except she has the volume wrong on the portable hole as it's radius squared not diameter.

[Khedrac]

OK gold coin stacking (and it is different for loose heaps and neat stacks, though probably not by very much).

Back in the dim distant past of AD&D when gold coins were 10 to a pound Don Turnbill covered this in his column Stirge Corner in a very early issue of Imagine magazine (the TSR UK magazine).

Back then gold coins approximated to an inch across so a cubic foot, neatly stacked, came out at 14,400 coins. (The size of the UK 50 pence piece before they shrank it.)
Now if we keep the shape the same, but reduce the volume by 5 to reduce the weight by 5 we get 72,000 coins per cubic foot (at 50 to the lb). There will be cases where they don't fit exactly due to coin sizes, but in general the proportion of empty space to coin should remain constant so we can do this transformation.

Now I think Yanisa has got the cylinder volume wrong ("pi r^2 h" not "pi d^2 h") = 3.14 * 3 * 3 * 10 (radius 3, depth 10) = 282.743 cubic feet

282.75 * 14,400 = 20 million, 358 thousand gold coins - neatly stacked.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Do handy haversacks work off of troy pounds, or imperial pounds? :smalltongue:

[LordErebus12]

do handy haversacks work off of troy pounds, or imperial pounds? :smalltongue:

*smite evil*

[Yanisa]

OK gold coin stacking (and it is different for loose heaps and neat stacks, though probably not by very much).

Back in the dim distant past of AD&D when gold coins were 10 to a pound Don Turnbill covered this in his column Stirge Corner in a very early issue of Imagine magazine (the TSR UK magazine).

Back then gold coins approximated to an inch across so a cubic foot, neatly stacked, came out at 14,400 coins. (The size of the UK 50 pence piece before they shrank it.)
Now if we keep the shape the same, but reduce the volume by 5 to reduce the weight by 5 we get 72,000 coins per cubic foot (at 50 to the lb). There will be cases where they don't fit exactly due to coin sizes, but in general the proportion of empty space to coin should remain constant so we can do this transformation.

Now I think Yanisa has got the cylinder volume wrong ("pi r^2 h" not "pi d^2 h") = 3.14 * 3 * 3 * 10 (radius 3, depth 10) = 282.743 cubic feet

282.75 * 14,400 = 20 million, 358 thousand gold coins - neatly stacked.

Oops, silly radius and diameter and what not. Calculating volumes was my weakest subject in math too.

Still it's more gold then one should have with him and you should have spend it ages ago. :smalltongue:

[Segev]

Oops, silly radius and diameter and what not. Calculating volumes was my weakest subject in math too.

Still it's more gold then one should have with him and you should have spend it ages ago. :smalltongue:

I've known DMs who give out that many copper pieces.

[bjoern]

I've known DMs who give out that many copper pieces.

Regarding lame treasure....we once cleared a lair and then we found out that all the treasure was mundane stuff: furniture, art, tapestries, books. All things of great value and likely what would ACTUALLY be in a hoard IRL. anyway it was a pain in the butt getting it all out of there. We had to go to town, get wagons and oxen. Then as we were travelling the stuff from.the lair to town we kept getting attacked by predators looking to eat our oxen. Ended up being several sessions looting the lair. We all had fun. We joked that with the abundance of livestock loving predators out there, it was surprising that they even survived and that meat wasn't more expensive.

[Khedrac]

I've known DMs who give out that many copper pieces.

The original Imagine article was supposing the party just killed a copper dragon and found a 1' cubic box of gold coins and the rest of the hoard (the dragon's bed - so mounds and mounds of the things) being copper pieces. The conclusion was 14,400gp and several million cp, with the catch that the gold would weigh (iirc) 3/4 tonne.

[grarrrg]

Back then gold coins approximated to an inch across so a cubic foot, neatly stacked, came out at 14,400 coins. (The size of the UK 50 pence piece before they shrank it.)

Such an inefficient way to stack them. Hexagonal would be much better.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/CirclePacking_1000.gif

[Barstro]

Such an inefficient way to stack them. Hexagonal would be much better.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/images/eps-gif/CirclePacking_1000.gif

While having more coins, the diagram on the right is both higher and wider, leaving much more unused space on the sides. You cannot fool us with your tricky math, sir. :smallyuk:
http://theworstthingsforsale.com/2013/11/14/triangular-packed-muffin-pan/

[Segev]

While having more coins, the diagram on the right is both higher and wider, leaving much more unused space on the sides. You cannot fool us with your tricky math, sir. :smallyuk:
http://theworstthingsforsale.com/2013/11/14/triangular-packed-muffin-pan/

A careful examination reveals about 2 half-coin vacancies per side on 2 sides, and that the "extra" row is only about half-a-coin's width "above" the square-packed row. This gives a total of 5.5 coins' worth of "cheating" space, compared to an extra 7 in the hexagonal packing. Which means we gain 1.5 coins' worth of space per iteration of that we use.

More, actually, if we stack them side-by-side, since the linked sides would double the number while leaving us with only 2 coins' total worth of vacant space on the horizontal sides, still.

[Dalebert]

Gold is actually extremely heavy. I am confident that the book-makers didn't figure for endless picking of nits (though they should know by now, haha) but if one gold coin is a 50th of a pound, it's pretty small. A troy ounce of gold is roughly 1/14th of a pound and the $20 gold eagle is 1.28 " in diameter. Figure roughly a fourth of that would be a smidge bigger than this (http://goldsilver.com/buy-online/american-gold-eagle-14-oz/).

Diameter 22.00mm and thickness 1.78 mm

I think that's very roughly about the size of a quarter so imagine 50 quarters that weigh a pound.

Here's a quarter:
Diameter 24.26 mm (0.955 in)
Thickness 1.75 mm (0.069 in)

[grarrrg]

While having more coins, the diagram on the right is both higher and wider, leaving much more unused space on the sides. You cannot fool us with your tricky math, sir. :smallyuk:
http://theworstthingsforsale.com/2013/11/14/triangular-packed-muffin-pan/

You can fit coins vertically down the side-gaps. :smalltongue:

[Lord Vukodlak]

I've actually did some math and research into this awhile ago and the volume of limit on a bag of holding is an almost useless information. Unless your putting large hollow objects into the bag you'll hit the weight limit before hitting the volume limit.

[grarrrg]

I've actually did some math and research into this awhile ago and the volume of limit on a bag of holding is an almost useless information. Unless your putting large hallow objects into the bag you'll hit the weight limit before hitting the volume limit.

So holy symbols made out of balsa wood and the like?
*rimshot*
I know, typo, but I couldn't resist!

[Lord Vukodlak]

So holy symbols made out of balsa wood and the like?
*rimshot*
I know, typo, but I couldn't resist!
Actually... yeah I linto balsa wood... and extra light balsa is one of the few materials you'd run out of volume before you ran out of weight.

[Yue Ryong]

And this is why no party should be without access to Fabricate.